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Google The Courts

James Damore Silently Ends Lawsuit Against Google (usatoday.com) 303

"The high-profile discrimination dispute between Google and one of its former software engineers has quietly come to an end," reports USA Today. "Ex-Google employee James Damore has moved to dismiss his lawsuit against the internet giant two years after alleging discrimination against conservative white men." Damore worked as an engineer at Google before being fired in 2017 after criticizing the company's efforts to improve diversity among its workforce... On Thursday, Damore and three other men involved in the suit made a written request to the Santa Clara Superior Court in California to drop the charges. Google also signed the motion, which was first spotted by Bloomberg.

"This matter is dismissed in its entirety," Judge Brian Walsh wrote in the order. A lawyer for the men told Bloomberg his clients are prohibited from saying anything beyond what's in the court filing.

Bloomberg provides some context: In 2018, Damore suffered a setback when a National Labor Relations Board attorney concluded the engineer's use of biological stereotypes in his widely circulated memo was offensive enough to cause disruption in the workplace, making his firing lawful...

In August Google posted internal rules that discourage employees from debating politics, a shift away from the company's famously open culture.

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James Damore Silently Ends Lawsuit Against Google

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  • by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:39PM (#60045426)

    James' big mistake was he foolishly believed Google wanted honest feedback on their diversity program.
    He paid a steep price for his naivete.

    • by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:42PM (#60045440)
      Unless he settled for a big chunk of money. Then he got paid a steep price. Or his lawyers did at any rate.

      I’m sure the comment section on this will be entertaining at any rate.
      • I'd have modded you Insightful if I ever got the mod point. But I still would have wound up disappointed by the lack of Funny comments. Probably has something to do with the lack of humor on that side? And then they complain about feminists hating jokes?

      • His lawsuit was funded by political organizations seeking to make hay. Once they stopped getting headlines this funding backed out and Damore was likely looking at millions in legal fees.

        This is what happens when you lets yourself be used by politicians as a talking point. He's hardly alone in the list of people that have had their lives turned upside down by politicians and political groups looking to make hay, it's a very long list.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:53PM (#60045504)

      Indeed. What he did not understand in the slightest is that the SJW movement is not driven by facts but by ideology. He tried to address a real problem and tried to offer insights in how it came to pass and what could be done. While I am not "conservative" at all, I found his arguments well reasoned and with merit and obviously given in good faith. Of course nothing is perfect, but that is why you have that thing called an "exchange of ideas", something the SJW crowd is not familiar with.

      I wonder how much they offered to pay him off. I guess he may find it really difficult to get meaningful employment now (and that is the real crime against him), so I do not blame him for having take a settlement.

      • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @05:26PM (#60045646)

        I wonder how much they offered to pay him off.

        We will never know. Sadly, the courts allow gag orders on settlements. You have a disagreement with someone, the two of you can settle it as you please. But once you bring your fight into our court system that should no longer be permitted. You now have to bring your agreement before the court and get its permission to dismiss. making that agreement a matter of public record. Who knows. The court may decide that it is in the public's best interest to continue the trial and test the law or set precedent.

        • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

          by dpille ( 547949 )
          You now have to bring your agreement before the court and get its permission to dismiss.

          Now, you have to bring your agreement before the court and get its permission to dismiss.

          There, fixed your unintentionally ironic error. The only alternative would be to never permit confidential settlement terms, which would deter quite a few litigants from settling, which is a bad outcome for everyone, including the public. Your problem seems to be that judges do indeed routinely dismiss without disclosed terms.
          • by PPH ( 736903 )

            The only alternative would be to never permit confidential settlement terms

            Once a lawsuit has been filed, yes. You can settle with anyone on any terms prior to that. But if you try to use our court system as a weapon to threaten opponents, it might just come back and bite you in the ass. At the very least, all your dirty laundry is made public. So think very carefully before suing.

        • by fred911 ( 83970 )

          "Sadly, the courts allow gag orders on settlements"

          This wasn't a gag order. It was a mutual agreement between the two parties involved in a civil dispute. Both parties agreed to amicable terms to eliminate the waste of the courts time and resources.

          Both parties requested the court's permission to withdraw the litigation, therefore there was no public record for disclosure (nor should there be).

          There were lawyers postureling, documents filed but the system functioned perfectly. All filed documents are part

      • ...but that is why you have that thing called an "exchange of ideas", something the SJW crowd is not familiar with

        Behavior exhibited by sub-genius zealots of every ilk; also lots of otherwise highly-intelligent Aspies. I suspect it's about defending egos than idealogy.

    • by Revek ( 133289 )
      Yeah, no one is looking for the truth anymore. It's much easier to just fabricate it. I'm thinking seven figures though since its all being done quietly.
    • James was paid off for his silence. Google admitted too much non-sense in public.

      Settlement is cheaper then letting this drag I am certain.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Gadget_Guy ( 627405 )

      James' big mistake was he foolishly believed Google wanted honest feedback on their diversity program.

      That is not correct. It wasn't the feedback to the organisers of the diversity program that caused the problem. It was the fact that after getting no response about his feedback, he then followed it up by sending the memo to Google's internal mailing lists and forums and that this was the cause of tensions within Google. It was very provocative and divisive among the staff.

      Even then it wasn't until the memo was leaked publicly that he was sacked. Considering that they were already in hot water with the US D

  • Stereotype? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lordpidey ( 942444 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:40PM (#60045428) Homepage

    In 2018, Damore suffered a setback when a National Labor Relations Board attorney concluded the engineer's use of biological stereotypes in his widely circulated memo was offensive enough to cause disruption in the workplace, making his firing lawful

    Stereotypes? He posted facts with citations.

    • Re:Stereotype? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:57PM (#60045524)

      In 2018, Damore suffered a setback when a National Labor Relations Board attorney concluded the engineer's use of biological stereotypes in his widely circulated memo was offensive enough to cause disruption in the workplace, making his firing lawful

      Stereotypes? He posted facts with citations.

      Indeed he did. And by that he committed a cardinal sin: He demonstrated conclusively that the prevalent narrative was fundamentally flawed. (And it is.) He made some fundamentally stupid people _look_ stupid. And that, like all zealots, they cannot forgive or even conceptualize as a possibility.

      • At the end of all this.

        Do you feel that his memo has helped or hinder women employment in the tech workforce.

        I think that it will take another 3 years before this dissipates from mainstream memory and
        we see more women in the tech field.

        I study history of information movement and I've come to the conclusion that things repeat
        over and over and real solutions are rarely achieved.

        • by Cederic ( 9623 )

          Do you feel that his memo has helped or hinder women employment in the tech workforce.

          I suspect and hope it's hindered women in the IT industry. It was time for a correction and to reinstitute gender equality, and Damore's memo rapidly accelerated the tensions regarding the severe bias that was taking place.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          At the end of all this.

          Do you feel that his memo has helped or hinder women employment in the tech workforce.

          That is besides the point. The aborted discussion (which was not his doing) certainly did damage.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Can'tNot ( 5553824 )
      Damore posted what passes for "facts" on internet forums. I.e.: He made a bunch of declarations, and backed up some of those with links to... stuff. Studies, wikipedia articles, etc. Given that the bar for truth on the internet is having any kind of citation at all, his rant meets that criteria.

      Further, he was posting to a forum. So his forum version of truth might seem appropriate... except this was not an internet forum, this was a work forum. He was not an anon, spreading the wisdom of his cherry-pic
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:43PM (#60045446)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:44PM (#60045450)

      You mean like saying that affirmative action to hire less qualified people from diverse background is in fact racial discrimination?

      • Google was a popular place to work. They could filter the pile of qualified resume's using almost any criteria they want. That would look for google's numbers, but make the problem worse for the rest of the industry.

        Unless they focus their attention on structural problems (if they exist) in the education pipeline, to ensure the under-represented have the opportunity to learn. Which would result in more candidates to choose from.

    • by Lordpidey ( 942444 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @04:44PM (#60045454) Homepage

      Honestly, most of the opinions I've seen here that are deemed 'uninformed', cite the actual memo, or the policy of the mailing list.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday May 11, 2020 @04:54AM (#60047008) Homepage Journal

        There's a difference between being informed about the content of the memo and being informed about the actual issue. It's the exact same mistake that Damore made, he didn't bother to research it properly or address the counter-arguments made decades ago.

        To be fair his treatment was perhaps a bit hash. People assumed he must have known about all that stuff and was just ignoring it deliberately to make a point, but he appears to have been genuinely clueless and well intentioned.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @05:16PM (#60045602)

      I did read the original memo back then because the whole thing had a smell to it. I found the original memo well reasoned and certainly written in good faith with the intention to provide a basis for further discussion and possible solutions. Sure, nothing is perfect, but basically all of the accusations leveled against him publicly are pretty extreme lies and reflect very, very badly on those that made the accusations.

      Of course, claiming that men and women are the same is fundamentally stupid and ignoring rather obvious biological facts. Of course what biological carrier-system you run on has a major impact on your experience of physical reality. Of course, due to fundamental biological mechanisms critical to species survival, your interactions with others are impacted. However, in this age of enlightenment, we can finally say "different but of equal worth" and can have a rational stance. Instead the SJW zealots insist on "not different" and make any rational and effective approach to the remaining problems (and there quite a few of those) impossible. And to make matters worse, they try to fit everybody into the same template and try to remove or strongly limit individual choice.

      Now, I am perfectly happy to teach the about 10% of female students in my software security course. They rank from excellent to mediocre, but all deserve to be there, just like the male students. (This is a higher-year course.) I also have absolutely no problem to occasionally compensate for biological issues, like the one time a student could not come to an exam because she was pregnant with a high risk of miscarriage. I visited her at home with a 3rd person present (her husband) and did a low-stress aural exam which went completely fine and was perfectly in line with the mid-semester written exam she did. But I doubt the number of female students in this subject will be approaching 50% anytime soon and that is by choice of the potential students, not because they are somehow prevented by force or not given the opportunity or brainwashed.

      • by Kjella ( 173770 )

        I visited her at home with a 3rd person present (her husband) and did a low-stress aural exam which went completely fine and was perfectly in line with the mid-semester written exam she did.

        I think you mean oral exam. Unless you were investigating her ear.

        But I doubt the number of female students in this subject will be approaching 50% anytime soon and that is by choice of the potential students, not because they are somehow prevented by force or not given the opportunity or brainwashed.

        Yes, but is it really biology or a lifetime of cultural influence that computer software is nerdy boy stuff? I don't expect an equal share of girls and boys to wear skirts any time soon, it doesn't mean I think biology is behind it. Cultural attitudes get passed down from generation to generation and change very slowly if at all. Even today there's little doubt that the school yard is divided by gender.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Yes, but is it really biology or a lifetime of cultural influence that computer software is nerdy boy stuff? I don't expect an equal share of girls and boys to wear skirts any time soon, it doesn't mean I think biology is behind it. Cultural attitudes get passed down from generation to generation and change very slowly if at all. Even today there's little doubt that the school yard is divided by gender.

          Quite obviously a mix. Also, quite obviously, what body you live in does shape your experience of reality to a significant degree. And also quite obviously, sex drive has a significant influence on human interaction and it is fundamentally different for women and men. If you even need to ask whether this can be fully cultural, then you are blind.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        ^ THIS.

        Hiring based on bullshit ideology instead of merit is reverse discrimination.

        Only Stupid Juvenile Whiners complain about bullshit issues that no one gives a fuck about.

        * 50% of nurses are NOT men. No one cares.
        * 50% of plumbers are NOT women. No one gives a fuck.

        SJWs are to stupid too understand Different does NOT imply unequal. In Mathematics we would express this concept as:

        AbsoluteValue( -2 ) == AbsoluteValue( +2 )

        Men and Women are wired fundamentally [scientificamerican.com] different [sciencemag.org] at the brain level. It is not sex

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Indeed. The important thing is that the girl that wants to become an engineer can try to and finds no higher hurdles in her way than the men. And we have reached that in the west today. That most girls do not want to be engineers is their personal preference and needs to be respected.

        • I have to ask - how do you know there is no discrimination and there is only hiring based on merit? Do you know this because you believe women can't become good engineers, like Damore did?

          They can't handle the stress, you know...
          Also, well done on misinterpreting the study that showed a massive correlation of brain wiring based on gender, but only because it had an even greater correlation based on profession. Almost like a lifetime of being an engineer may make a difference on your brain, regardless

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Damore's argument was that the nature of the job should be changed to reflect biology in order to make it more attractive to women. Ignoring that he got the biology wrong (as confirmed by the authors of the studies he cited), let's assume he is right for a moment.

        Isn't this kind the kind of "everyone gets a medal" stuff that conservatives rail against? Make the job easier for women so they can be engineers too. Wouldn't it be better to help them overcome whatever issues they might have?

        And aren't the issues

  • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • ...that the biggest checkbooks can solve anything.

    He was certainly paid off (so good for him, I guess) but that's why it's sealed.

    Remember this next time you hear someone from the left complaining about the 'power of big corporations'.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • He had the limelight, and could have gone after Pichai big time in the court of public opinion.

    The first and obvious and most step would be to put the memo up on a public website. Today, we have to go to archive.org to find a copy from the Wikipedia page. Then collect all the people that support him. Make his case.

    Then get right wing idiots to support him. Finally, they have something valid to complain about. He could have gotten interviews everywhere.

    And his message would be:

    1. Use Bing or Duck to pro

  • So we know he got a nice settlement.

Do you suffer painful illumination? -- Isaac Newton, "Optics"

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