Ohio Stops Kicking Workers Off Unemployment After Hacker Targets Its Website (vice.com) 247
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: The state of Ohio won't deny unemployment benefits to people who refuse to work during the COVID-19 pandemic after people targeted the website it was using to track these workers, according to officials at the state's Department of Job and Family Services (ODJFS). The state previously set up a "fraud" website encouraging employers to report those who refused to go back on the job, angering workers and labor rights advocates. State officials say they are now reconsidering the policy after Motherboard reported that a hacker created a script to flood the "COVID-19 Fraud" website with junk data, with the goal of making it impossible to process these claims.
"No benefits are being denied right now as a result of a person's decision not to return to work while we continue to evaluate the policy," ODJFS Director Kimberly Hall told Cleveland.com. "Because Ohio is still examining its policies in this area, no adjudications concerning a refusal to return to work have been initiated," Bret Crow, a spokesperson for the department, told Motherboard in an email. "While the hacker's script has since stopped working after changes to Ohio's website, another hacker has taken up the project and plans to release an updated version," adds Motherboard.
"No benefits are being denied right now as a result of a person's decision not to return to work while we continue to evaluate the policy," ODJFS Director Kimberly Hall told Cleveland.com. "Because Ohio is still examining its policies in this area, no adjudications concerning a refusal to return to work have been initiated," Bret Crow, a spokesperson for the department, told Motherboard in an email. "While the hacker's script has since stopped working after changes to Ohio's website, another hacker has taken up the project and plans to release an updated version," adds Motherboard.
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Careful with that axe, Eugene... (Score:2, Insightful)
I honestly don't understand why there can't just be a huge civil suit. The government is literally denying some groups of people the ability to work, and doing nothing to address the obvious devistation that it's causing.
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Yes if the government tells you "sir, you are not allowed to make a living" they should be making you whole by paying your wages until you may return to work. Unfortunately that's socialism, and was never seriously considered.
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Hmm, I'd have thought that the government telling you that you cannot work would be communism.
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The government is literally denying some groups of people the ability to work
Nope, they are denying certain professions. That isn't targeting groups of people, and the entire premise here is that a benefits system does exist and it's questioning whether it should apply to people who could go to work but refuse to.
Even if the government were doing what you were saying it's questionable whether a lawsuit would have any legal standing, but as it is, your assessment of the situation is waaay off.
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Could is a relative term. Some states have carelessly told all sorts of businesses that they are free to re-open and aren't doing much to enforce any conditions on the re-opening.
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The government is literally denying some groups of people the ability to work
Nope, they are denying certain professions.
Well, that's splitting hairs to me, but I'll go with it. These professions that you mention all have professionals that are directly associated with them. These professionals are being denied the ability to work and make money due to a government order. These professionals should all band together and sue the agencies that are forcing them into poverty.
I know a single mom that owns her own salon. She is forced, by the government, to close shop until further notice. She's applied for unemployment and ev
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"BTW, in some counties, at least here in Alabama, the sheriffs have decided that they won't enforce these city's make-shift new "COVID-19" ordances, because of how stupid they are."
Are you saying that's acceptable? If so, how to you feel about sanctuary cities deciding what laws to enforce "because of how stupid they are"?
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:translation for the initiated. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: translation for the initiated. (Score:2)
Troll pretends groups are all the same, to push for division. Likes to rant about fantasy bogeyman.
Yawn.
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Way to ignore everything that was said after the first sentence.
There is so much garbage in this and your other two diatribes it shouldn't come as a surprise no one is commenting on your posts as a whole.
I'm lucky enough to have a boss who really doesn't care if I'm in the office or at home, but if he told me it was time to start showing up again everyday at 9AM sharp, I'd be at my motherfucking desk, because he decides whether or not I continue to receive a paycheck.
The amount of privileged in this statement is staggering. Do you have kids whose daycare and school are closed? Do you live with an elderly family member or does your spouse have diabetes and hypertension? Are you over 60 yourself? There are so many reasons someone would have trouble coming into the office / factory / etc. if it opens up right now. Most people probably
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There's another reason the Left is panicking: if their predictions for doom and gloom derived from computer models produced by your "scientist" betters fails as spectacularly as they appear to have in this case, nobody will ever believe the climate doom again and there goes the biggest source of their power: fear.
It's already going to be two or three generations before most take such doomer projections seriously again.
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Sounds like a good news, bad news scenario (Score:5, Funny)
The good news: You no longer have to make a choice between risking death and having enough income to survive.
The bad news: You live in Ohio.
Hacker? Come on, Motherboard. (Score:4, Funny)
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What are you talking about! These are all hackers. They use the Linux to attack kernels using bugs in the internet. The fact that we left our login and password as admin:password doesn't make them any less evil hacker geniuses.
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Well, considering that python has become one of the leading languages when it comes to writing exploits and POCs...
Watch out for unemployment (Score:3)
You have to wonder about an agency that has such a large collections department. The one I went to years go had a full third of its office space dedicated to that. While I was on unemployment I was able to get a contract IT job installing some equipment for $50 each install plus mileage. Most of the paycheck was mileage as I'd drive hours to the locations. After a handful of jobs I sent in my invoice and received $900. On reporting this at the unemployment office I was immediately accused of lying to them. Failure to report. The fine, $1,200. I then understood why they had so many collections officers.
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Someone committing unemployment fraud wonders why unemployment resources are scarce. Behold, the Modern Left!
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The CARES Act caused this mess.... (Score:2)
Up till now, in the USA at least, unemployment pay was fairly straightforward. It was literally a govt. mandated insurance program that let people collect a percentage of their previous job's pay for a limited time, as long as they'd worked enough hours to qualify for the coverage. It was subject to some basic terms; a requirement you document a weekly effort to apply for another job to at least two or three places. And some states would randomly require people report to an unemployment office in person, w
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That $600 comes from the US Treasury department, not the state unemployment fund - so it convolutes everything. It caused states to stop demanding people prove they're still looking for a job and caused people to have expectations it was a welfare payment they were simply "owed".
It all comes from the pool of taxes people pay, so I'm not sure why it matter which particular pot it came out of.
Also, I know a couple people collecting unemployment in Washington state right now - they are still required to report that they're looking for work. As to "provably" - your job search has never been "provable". Several decades ago I collected unemployment for a couple months. Yes, I did have to list four places weekly where I had asked... which accomplishes nothing. They didn't ask if you fille
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Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you considered that the assclowns gathering in large groups without masks are not only a distinct group from those refusing to return to work due to COVID concerns, but are in fact a valid reason some aren't willing to return to work?
They are also likely distinct from the group getting evicted in the middle of a pandemic.
So perhaps we need to contain the idiots rather than using them as an excuse to penalize the more prudent.
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Nothing the US government does is going to stop this thing.
Nothing? Not true. Having our leadership lead by example & wear a mask, encourage people to stay home & practice social distancing, & listen to his science advisers. Of course right from the start push hard for testing & contact tracing. Instead we got the opposite. His people worship him & will do what he says. Leadership is what's missing.
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Umm... how is asking for more leadership and leading by example a pro government position? I'd have said it sounded rather like criticism of it.
Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
... and the reason being is that people are idiots. Full stop.
I knew it before of course, but this whole thing has really opened my eyes what absolute idiots/misinformed/easily misled people can be.
Now, I'm not saying hunker down in your houses and never go out - but I'm also not saying let's all get back to normal - because it's NOT normal.
Everyone should be having an abundance of caution. The amount of people who just don't care is astounding.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
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There are still drunk drivers despite laws, therefore we should entirely give up on preventing people from murdering each other. Brilliant.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
Both of those are illegal yet still happen every day. Were you hiding under your bed refusing to go work before all this over that risk to your health?
Sir I must say. That argument is ridiculous. Your are in fact stating that any attempt to curtail preventable harm due to negligence is in fact an attack on freedom. There are arguments you could use here that would carry weight if they were reasonable. But what your saying is that because people commit crimes in spite of them being illegal that we should not try to prevent them. If I told you that rape, murder and theft were made legal starting tomorrow would you go about your next week as normal or would you react to an increased level of threat. Or do you believe that everyone who would commit those crimes is already doing so and we would not see any rise in those activities? You are using a fallacy to try and prove a point. Use another method that doesn't make you look like a strawman.
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"Freedom" does NOT mean that you have the right to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Assholes who want to reopen now, in direct defiance of all the experts' recommendations is not merely shouting fire, but pulling out lighters and setting the theater on fire.
If you, personally, want to go work in a high-hazard area, feel free to volunteer to work in a COVID-19 ward in your nearest hospital.
Alternatively, feel free to test the "theory" of gravity by jumping out a window, and then we won't have to listen to
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That wouldn't go well, and most likely cause what civil unrest there is to turn into civil war. I don't want that at ALL.
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You guys have the biggest fucking army in the world. Declare martial law and blame those assholes for it.
Our army is in no way large enough to enforce martial law across the entire country or even a plurality of it, even if we called up all the reservists. You'd have to draft all they guys you were supposed to be policing. Not to mention that it would probably trigger a large insurrection among the demographic that is most prone to violating the stay-at-home order.
Also, the border thing is a red herring. Any virus spread by people sneaking across the border is noise compared to the amount of domestic spread
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The border is currently not a red herring as the US/Canada border is due to open next week IIRC and there seems to be problems negotiating to keeping it closed, something that Canada, or at least parts of, is quite interested in delaying for another month at least.
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"Citations please."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/coro... [go.com]
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
Yeah, I remember. I didn't connect that with 'enforcement' though it's accurate.
"An argument ensued and 20 minutes later, officials said Larry Teague and Bishop came to the store and shot Munerlyn in the head."
Somehow this doesn't seem to me to be an incident of rejecting the mask retirement so much as an individual that decided they had been 'disrespected'. And inexcusably returned and committed premeditated murder, apparently. Not just sad, outrageous. God help us.
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It's worse than that. There is nothing in any of that to indicate they won't retroactively deny the claims and recover the funds after everyone stops paying attention.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
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US governors at any level (city, state, federal) should stick their head out of their echo chamber and take a look at how other countries handled the pandemic. Most European countries (yes, even Italy and Spain) handled it better than the US.
I know I'm in for a treat when someone from Europe starts talking about the US like it is one country with one set of rules.
I've said this probably a hundred times on here, but you guys just don't understand. It doesn't work that way here. We have states that are much more independent than you realize, and you can't just say, "In the US" without what follows being largely wrong.
The state in question in this post is Ohio, which is having people fight back against having to return to work. Things are only s
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As for you, your comment about him is entirely flawed.. He isn't making generalizations about Europe or Europeans as a whole. He is making a comment about specific people from Europe that make generalizations. Where in Europe they liv
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He complains about blanket statements about "the U.S.", but in the same turn flat-out assuming that such comments have to be coming from Europe. (And he is not even specifying, if he is talking about the E.U. or the European continent.)
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
GP is actually comparing US to EU. The individual comparison is between US governors and countries.
There is more diversity on the EU side. The US has no excuses in comparison to the EU. Because whatever difficulties exist here in terms of states is more so in the EU.
Normally I don't like the comparisons because both are quite different. US can't be compared to France but neither can Cali to Germany. But in the COVID situation, it should have been easier for the US to show the world how it should be done...
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You are right of course. The states are mostly in charge in this kind of situation, but they will generally take direction from the federal government if it is acting competently and setting reasonable guidelines. Also, the fed's main power is to throw a bunch of money around with strings attached which will influence behavior.
Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
I know I'm in for a treat when someone from Europe starts talking about the US like it is one country with one set of rules. I've said this probably a hundred times on here, but you guys just don't understand. It doesn't work that way here. We have states that are much more independent than you realize, and you can't just say, "In the US" without what follows being largely wrong.
Your post, in its self, is a bit ironically wrong about "Europe". If you narrowed your comment to us Brits, though, mostly you would have a point and it's well made, though even here we have four separate countries each of which are making their own policy on Coronavirus. If you look at the actual "Europeans" (mainland, continental Europeans) you will discover more wisdom.
There are a number of European states which have a very similar situation to your own, but sometimes even stronger. The Swiss "cantons" and the German "lande" have independence quite similar to American states. Since we're discussing the general federal situation, this also applies in India to a large extent though the government there seems to have more power to interfere when they actually want to. This means that German speaking Europeans, at least, fully understand your situation because they live with a more or less identical one.
What is different, though, is that in the end everyone ends up pulling in the same direction. It seems Germany actually benefited greatly from it's federalism since some of the different states ("lande") acted before and separately from the federal government but then later the federal government acted too. A few states tried to go in the crazy "herd immunity" direction like America. In Germany the federal government used its powers - similar to those of the US - to ensure that states kept to minimum standards even though they each enforced things differently.
In order for this to happen, there needs to be a basis for trust - e.g. joint rules everyone is willing to follow. There needs to be a belief that most people are working for the common good. I think from the outside what people really hope is that you can start to learn from examples like Germany and get your act together. The really ironic thing is that the modern German system was set up as a kind of mirror of your own system, actually by people cooperating with and learning from Americans. The hope you should take from this is that just a few fixes - switching to proportional representation - demanding that judges enforce the law against the rich as well a the poor - things like that - could fix America.
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The United States of America. Is a darn boring yet descriptive name of the country.
There are States with their own laws regulations and implementations united under one federal authority, in which said federal authority is split up to allow each state to have their say.
Many of these federal laws, are not laws, but bribes to states. If you do this, then we will give you so much federal money. A state can turn down the money and do it their way. However because the state can't make its own money, and poli
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Not sure about other places, but here in NC, the courts have been paused, so even if someone started eviction, no court to order anything... I'd imagine most other states are similar... But yes, our states are more like european countries and can have different rules from state to state... So really you have to compare your countries to our states for any effective comparison.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
Most European countries (yes, even Italy and Spain) handled it better than the US.
A six hundred thousand euro fine for attempting to catch some much-needed rays (viruses being viruses and all that) in your own backyward... right.
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That's about as hyperbole as saying you get a lifetime sentence for stealing a chewing gum in some US states.
No, wait, because unlike your hyperbole, being locked up forever in the US for stealing a pack of Doublemint CAN actually happen.
A 600k fine is reserved for "severe cases of disobedience". And no matter how you spin it, taking a sun bath in your back yard is by no means a " severe case of disobedience". Actually, it's doubtful anyone would even consider it a problem at all.
So please, if you try to hy
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Yeah, credit where credit is due, I don't like the Tory party currently in power in the UK, but paying 80% wages to furloughed people will likely be very beneficial to the economy when we get out of this ugly mess. I just got a grant today, it's a massive relief.
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The problem is the US Is so large and rich, that it doesn't have too many real problems. So we invent our own. We have completely Vilanized the other political parties, and blindly stick to our own, not caring or disregarding the own evil and stupid things our own party is doing, at the same time twisting the good that the opposing party does, as part of some devious plot.
Now we have a real problem that requires people to work together. However we have built a culture where we just cannot trust the peopl
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Anyone with a tiny bit of sense should have thought, "gee, shouldn't there be a hold to kicking people off unemployment benefits during this times?" Instead, it took a smack in the face for someone to finally notice.
It's more complicated than that. These people are being offered their jobs back but don't want to go back to work. To make matters worse, congress decided to tack on an extra $600/week to unemployment regardless of how much money a person made. That's an extra $15/hour on top of the normal unemployment. The median income is $15/hour and many of the higher income people are working remotely so for a majority of people on unemployment, they are currently making more on unemployment than they were making
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You point is well made. I would mention that at the moment Ohio hasn't re-opened day cares across the board and schools are closed. That means that many people can't go to work because there is no one they can get to watch their children. IIRC those people are allowed to remain on unemployment until the day cares are re-opened. I think that's reasonable.
My opinion on the matter is that I do believe we should get free happiness money and if this is the mechanism by which we'll temporarily get it, I'm fine wi
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I've never understood why people have kids just to pay someone else to raise them. Then they wonder why those kids don't give a crap about them when they grow up. Children as fashion accessories.
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Humans have been raising children tribally since we were roaming the plains of Africa as apes. This is the modern day equivalent- one person watching the children of many people while the other go off to provide.
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Not all humans. The data is quite clear on the benefits of children being raised by their parents over being raised by the collective, or worse, some stranger a few blocks away.
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Children are excellent vectors to spread the disease though, bringing it home to infect and kill their parents, who, now being forced back to work, will go on to infect and kill others.
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Is OSHA well enough financed to inspect all these work places? Isn't the government simply making some of these work places like meat packing plants, non-liable for their employees?
Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a very strange kind of application to unemployment benefits. So strange that it's the first time I've heard that opinion.
Unemployment benefits are tied to the state of employment, nothing more nothing less. In most countries around the world the reason for unemployment is irrelevant, whether you lost your job because you were fired, made redundant, or quit, you're unemployed and usually in need of support.
What most unemployment benefits are tied to are
a) the household income (you don't get benefits of being an unemployed trust fund kid)
b) other benefits (you don't typically get unemployment benefits for X number of weeks after being made redundant depending on the size of your redundancy package).
c) are you actively looking for a job (you don't typically get unemployment benefits without showing you're putting in a minimum effort to return to work).
Also calling it "free happiness money" is just utterly stupid. There's nothing "happy" about getting the bare minimum support required to survive and not get evicted or starve. In the USA there's additionally nothing "happy" about not having medical insurance at a time of an epidemic. (That said I know of edge cases in the USA where people have more net take home pay, but they are edge cases, and they are specific problems not related to unemployment benefits).
Clearly you've never been on unemployment benefits. I'm not sure if you're eating from silver spoons or just have a general set of "I got mine so everyone else must be a slacker" sense of entitlement, but either way you have a really crap attitude towards those less fortunate than yourself.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
Perfectly said, mod up please!
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In America, everyone knows you only get unemployment if you get laid off. If you quit or get fired due to being written up too many times, you don't get unemployment. And unemployment isn't forever, either. You have to prove that you are actively looking for work, the benefits are taxed as income by the federal government, and they stop coming after a set period. I'm not surprised you don't know the condition of the American working class, people who graduated from college never got a taste of this life
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2, Insightful)
No they don't. That is how educated people see you specifically, because of what you post. I have no idea what socio-economic category you are in personally. I see you daily posting hatred and devicive lies like that. That is why you have such low rep here.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
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Are you a GOP gay-op? I swear they couldn't have planted a better stereotype of which side to vote against.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
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Complaining about broad, sweeping generalizations made against a group by making broad, sweeping generalizations against another group. How inconsistent and intellectually dishonest of you.
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I don't think he's the one making the sweeping generalizations, but rather pointing out that Hillary lost the election because she - and her fellow travelers in the Democrat party and mainstream media - have a habit of denigrating people for being White, for being Christian, and for being male.
A person doesn't have to hate minorities to understand how anyone who expresses hatred of Christians - who are trying to make the world a better place - is not someone who should have the reigns of power. It's not
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You've got it wrong. Deplorable, racists, bigots, and worse can be working class, but most working class people aren't like you.
The gun-toting, low IQ, Islamophobic, nazi rednecks are happily in the minority. They just happen to be a really noisy bunch.
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We do not call the working class "deplorable, racists, bigots, and worse".
Deplorable: A blanket term, for people who do things in general that the public doesn't like. This can apply to a working class person, who is abusing the system, collecting welfare while doing a job under the table. This can also be used against a CEO who moves his company to a different country to avoid paying taxes, while receives Government benefits to run such a business.
Racist: A person who generally believes that someones race
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Who, other than you, is calling it free happiness money?
If you "get your job back", but are in a high risk group or need to associate with those who are, you still can't really return to your job, thus you are unemployed.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
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They aren't in high risk groups.
So you got the entire unemployment roll for Ohio and checked up on that yourself? That must have taken quite a while.
The benefit passed this spring was incorrectly setup to pay more than the wages were paying.
Funny thing, that isn't at all what TFA is about. Talk about making up stories, you made up your own personal bias confirming version of the news.
If they did make such an error, I would imagine a correction is in order, but kicking people off of the unemployment rolls is not that.
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So, in other words, you have the free choice, free person: Risk your life or risk your livelihood.
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That's the choice we all make every day when we get out of bed in the morning.
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There is a difference between Unemployment Insurance, Welfare, Disability and Social Security.
Unemployment is for people who had lost their job. And will need money (at around their standard of living) to make it until they get their next job. If you don't show signs of looking for work, you loose it.
Welfare, is tied to how poor you are. You could be working but still on Welfare because your job doesn't pay enough. This is meant to provide basic living services for yourself and any children. Despite the
Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:5, Informative)
Do you know how much in UI you actually pay? At least in California, UI is typically 3.4% of your first $7,000 [ca.gov], but can reach up to 6.2%, meaning $434 annually, maximum. Federally its not much higher, being 6% of your first $7,000 in income [irs.gov]. Thus your employer will pay, at maximum, $854 in unemployment for you.
Right now in CA, assuming you earned $18/hour, you would make $347 per week from the State, and another $600 per week from the Federal Government. Meaning one week of UI, right now, is more than an entire year of taxation.
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And there are people who have worked steadily for 50 years and never drawn unemployment...
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Are they hiring? That sounds like a job anyone would like.
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I tend to want to be good at what I do. I have seen way too many people do a mediocre job and faking their way through life because they take whatever job they find and then do it half-assed (if that much assed in the first place).
Sorry, but back from the time when I was young, doing something "professionally" didn't just mean "doing it for money". It meant doing it better than some idiot piced up on the street and shoved into it. And that's what I expect someone who wants my money to do something for me: T
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"To have learned to do it and to have an education in the field. Else I could save my money and do it myself."
In practice it works out differently in many cases. The jack of all trades is really the ACE who actually cleans house when he walks in the door and the comfy specialist who had all his information spoon fed in college and gets no diversity of experience is often quite helpless at doing anything but handling routine tasks and depending on support contracts.
Re:Blatant stupidity (Score:4, Informative)
Wrong. Every employer has to pay money into a special fund that's used to provide unemployment benefits. They don't pay in constantly, just until they've "contributed" a specified amount. Once they've done that, they're off the hook until a former employee starts getting paid, at which point they have to pony up again to replace what's been paid. I don't know where the idea came from that it's something that came out of your paycheck in the first place, but it isn't and never has been. Maybe people confuse it with Worker's Comp, that does come out of your pocket.
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I don't know where the idea came from that it's something that came out of your paycheck in the first place, but it isn't and never has been. Maybe people confuse it with Worker's Comp, that does come out of your pocket.
Umm, maybe because there is a line item on our pay checks for unemployment tax in some (all?). On my paycheck, the tax is called SUI (i.e. State Unemployment Insurance) which is not to be confused with SDI (State Disability Insurance). In my state, the unemployment tax rate for employees is 0.5%. In any given pay check, the tax does not amount to a large amount, however it is certainly being deducted from my pay check.
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I don't know about him but as far as I know I've had an unemployment line item in IL, FL, NM, and TX.
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Whatever they are for, it's your own money they pay you.
No. You are buying insurance, not depositing into a personal account.
The system is not designed for massive payouts and will quickly be depleted if there are no restrictions. Unlike the federal government, states can't print money and usually can't run deficits.
Maybe we need a temporary UBI, but it can't be funded through unemployment insurance. That isn't going to work.
Re: Blatant stupidity (Score:2)
That isn't what "delegate" means.
Re:Painting a bad picture (Score:5, Insightful)
Not wanting to die for your job is not being selfish. Many people want to work. Working provides a sense of self, a sense of accomplishment. Those same people don't want to die for their job and I don't blame them.
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Not wanting to die for your job is not being selfish. Many people want to work. Working provides a sense of self, a sense of accomplishment. Those same people don't want to die for their job and I don't blame them.
Yeah, why can't everyone just shut up and do as they are told.
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As a great prophet once said,
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Re:Painting a bad picture (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
At least in my state, people over 65 are still under a stay home order, even while their place of employment is allowed to open. Surely you're not suggesting they violate the stay home order in order to go to work..or that obeying the stay home order should convert their involuntary unemployment into a termination for cause...
Re: (Score:2)
Let's call it what it really is: Forcing people to decide whether to risk life or livelihood.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Eww. Have some standards, dude!