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Should Microsoft Release an Edgebook? (zdnet.com) 96

Posted by EditorDavid from the burning-Chrome dept.
"All the pieces are coming together for Microsoft to launch a direct competitor to Chromebooks..." argues an industry analyst writing for ZDNet: Since adopting the Chromium rendering engine, Microsoft Edge has featured virtually perfect compatibility with Chrome, right down to being able to install extensions from the Chrome app store. It's also enabled Microsoft to more easily support operating systems that Edge didn't previously support such as macOS and Linux. But now that Edge is working well, might Microsoft try to go after Chrome OS? While a "lite" version of Windows has been rumored for years, many of the other pieces are already in place or announced.

First, Microsoft has made no secret of how it covets the education market that has embraced Chromebooks. It has fought back with low-cost Windows notebooks from partners that are competitively priced with such devices but may lack Chrome OS' perception of simplicity and security.

Second, after years of having the web apps of office.com languish as Microsoft emphasized the PC versions, the online suite will be the first to take advantage of Fluid Framework, the company's open-source component framework that allows the embedding of applet functionality and collaboration into a range of container documents such as Edge pages. Third, while the idea of Microsoft limiting the opportunity for Windows developers on a platform might have been unthinkable years ago, times have changed. Many developers, Microsoft included, have made web apps mainstream. Outside of the Windows-boosting Surface team, Microsoft seems indifferent as to where you access its subscription-based client and cloud offerings.

Finally, Microsoft now has the cross-processor architecture support to take the battle to Google -- although, at least for now, it has exclusively focused on high-performance Qualcomm Snapdragon designs as opposed to Mediatek or Allwinner ARM-based chips in budget Chromebooks...

Microsoft's strongest competitive point would be the greater focus on privacy, one of the best reasons to use Edge versus Chrome today.
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Should Microsoft Release an Edgebook? More

Should Microsoft Release an Edgebook?

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  • They should close up shop and return all their assets to shareholders.

  • They already have one (Score:3, Informative)

    by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Saturday June 20, 2020 @11:43PM (#60207650)
    It's called Surface

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Khan ( 19367 )

      This -^

      • Your internet must have dropped out. I'll finish the sentence for you: "is false". The Surface line doesn't compete with Chromebooks, not on price, capability, or form factor. Now the failed experience that was the Surface RT, *that* competed with Chromebooks and had all the same features: barely functional with little software good for nothing other than browsing the internet or installing Linux on... except that it was bootloader locked so it wasn't even good for that.

        • >"The Surface line doesn't compete with Chromebooks, not on price, capability, or form factor. Now the failed experience that was the Surface RT,"

          ^ This

          Comparing a stand-alone device (Surface) that is the new look of a fat-client laptop, to a Chromebook is not a valid comparison. One can take any expensive, full laptop, with a full OS, and use only a browser on it to do most things. But that isn't the same type of product.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          The problem with the surface rt (and windows phone) was the branding...
          If you brand it as windows, then customers expected it to have full compatibility with the windows they are already familiar with, as well as to suffer the same malware and stability problems windows is famous for.

          Chromebooks are seen as a separate product so users don't have any such preconceptions.

    • Not "Surface", it's called "a laptop". A Surface with a built-in keyboard a la a Chromebook is "a laptop".

      And given that Microsoft make pretty decent hardware I think they really should start making laptops. Then they could move away from trying to do software, which they utterly suck at.

      • The Microsoft Surface line consists of the Surface Pro, which is primarily a tablet with a type cover for light use, a Surface Book, which is a convertible tablet laptop, and the Surface Laptop, which is ... a laptop with a permanently connected keyboard.

        The thing you want already exists, and the OP correctly pointed that out.

        • At a quick glance, it looks like the Surface Book runs $700-$2,000.
          The Chromebooks handed out to students run maybe $140-$170.

          The Surface Book is a full Windows laptop, with all of the security concerns and administrative needs of any other Windows computer.

          The Chromebook is a web browser, period. That's the only application it runs.

          It seems to me the Surface Book competes with lots of other laptops. The Chromebook is in a different category.

          • I was pointing out that the Surface *Laptop* already existed, as many people, including the OP, just think its a tablet line.

          • Yeah, and that's why I pointed out that a cheap Surface with a keyboard is "a laptop". A standard Surface with a keyboard is still a Surface, unless Microsoft make some $200 model I'm not aware of.

          • The Chromebook is a web browser, period. That's the only application it runs.

            Nitpick: That used to be true. But Chromebooks can now run some Android apps.

            But still big constraints on what they can do. This is why schools love Chromebooks. The students can't screw them up because there is nothing on them.

            • It even has a Wayland compositor so you can install Firefox!

              Now that Chrome OS has Play Store support, is a pity Google do not ditch Android and make a Chrome OS phone (or Fuchsia?) They can offer 8 years support for a Chromebook but a fraction of that on their own Android devices.

          • The Chromebook is a web browser, period. That's the only application it runs.

            Chromebooks are more than just a web browser. Chromebooks can run Chrome apps from the Chrome app store; with Google Play enabled, they can run Android apps; and with Linux enabled, they can run Linux apps.

            Most Android apps are compiled for both ARM chips and for x86. As for the Linux, it's a container with Debian in it (either ARM or x86 as appropriate for your specific device). I have vim, Python, and various other command-lin

            • Samsung Chromebook Plus XE513C24-K01US

              2GHz 6-core ARM processor (dual A72, quad A53), 4GB RAM, 32GB eMMC storage, 12.3" screen, going price $300 or so on eBay

              For cheaper than that, and for your specific needs as a dev platform (though not necessarily as a dead-simple to use video platform) you can get the PineBook Pro [pine64.org].
              - Roughly the same class of specs
              - Designed from the ground up for linux and runs on mainline opensource drivers (e.g.: GPU is on panfrost).
              - Comes with an unlocked linux already pre-installed (currently Manjaro)
              - Wider/thinner build (it's more like a 14"-ish Mac Book Air-alike) (Though I understand than some people prefer narrower build for travel

            • Perhaps I should have been more specific.
              I was still talking about the Chromebooks handed out to kids by schools, and why thry choose those devices versus laptops.

              Yes you can do more with some different Chromebook hardware.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Chromebooks only cost a fraction of the price though. That's why they are successful.

          With a Chromebook you get a cheap but capable machine that does everything many users want. It's basically just a web browser but that covers web, email, video chat and office apps. Performance is decent and you don't have to worry about viruses or updates.

          A Surface device cost a lot more and runs Windows 10 so is more effort to administer and more vulnerable to malware. The flexibility comes at a cost. I'm not sure Microso

          • Both MSFT and Gogol are spying on your keypresses. Free people install an unbugged Linux version on their computer. They dont run the Chrome spyware, but Firefox. Free people run their private cloud server on an RPI connected to the DSL Modem. Google and its user base are something like Plantation owners and Black Slaves.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              I'm only really interested in helping people who have to use software and services from companies like Google because they don't have the knowledge and experience to set up something themselves and maintain it. I mean a Pi is a fine server but way beyond most people to configure and secure.

              Privacy is a human right and if we want everyone to benefit from technology we have to find a way to make it practical for them.

      • I can't wait to switch to an edgebook and run all those windows apps that totally run in a web browser... I'm fact, the only reason we still have Windows computers is because there are some developers who are too retarded to develop cross-platform applications.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      I have a lot of respect for the surface. For people who have one, and learn to use it, it can do quite a lot. The issue I see is that MS is considered a budget product, so people do not want to pay a premium when they could just get an Android tablet. Which is the same issue here. What is the incentive for MS to make a budget product to compete in a low profit business. MS has always sold a cheap product at high prices. The marginal costs of windows is zero, and the licenses have always been extortion.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DaHat ( 247651 )

        The issue I see is that MS is considered a budget product, so people do not want to pay a premium when they could just get an Android tablet

        Says who? Their prices on Surface devices clearly suggests they view themselves as a premium product. One only has to hear Panos speak at a launch the way Tim or Steve would talk about a new launch at Apple to see the parallels.

        They could always adopt another name for less expensive, presumably with less fit and finish device... but how much money is that going to make

        • Says who? Their prices on Surface devices clearly suggests they view themselves as a premium product.

          I think you misunderstood the parent's post. MS definitely views themselves as a premium product. The parent postulated that *consumers* view it as a budget option. "$1500 for a crappy tablet! NO WAY! I can buy a Laptop for that!"

          Anyone who has used one would definitely agree it's a premium product. An unreliable premium product but premium none the less.

    • It's called Surface

      Not quite. It's the failed experiment called the Surface RT. The rest of the Surface line is infinitely more usable than a Chromebook in its shipped state. Sure you can buy a Chromebook and hack a copy of Linux onto it to make it a full fledged ultra portable laptop replacement, but all that tinkering and change only then puts you in competition of the Surface line.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by thsths ( 31372 )

      Not really. A surface is a full computer, and you can install any program (even if it may not work very well).

      And Edgebook would be based on Windows S, so it would only run preinstalled programs and apps from the Microsoft Store. A closed ecosystem like iOS or ChromeOS. Possibly even with an ARM CPU.

      I would say it is a good idea, for people who do not need to install any heavyweight programs (which, admittedly, is the majority).

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • "OH WOW. OH WOW. OH WOW."

    --Last words of Steve Jobs

    tl;dr on Edge: Who cares.

  • Zdnet 2007 [zdnet.com]: “I've seen the future and the Zune becomes a hit”
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • The big problem Microsoft has is they had no patience in these market either. They'd release a new product, it would fail to set the world on fire, and they'd kill it off after a year or two. They did this too many times, and now they have no credibility left. If they release a new product, the market shuns it because everyone expects it'll get killed off, and thus no one buys it, and therefore Microsoft ends up killing it off, completing the circle. If they release an Edgebook, this is exactly what wil

        • The iphone wasn't even supposed to have apps at first lol.

          With the WP I think they took a huge gamble by killing of Windows Mobile dead and starting from scratch. There are good reasons for doing that of course but the downside was that you had no continuity for your existing user base and no apps or developers. I think they did the same shit everyone insists on at first by not allowing native apps.

          This Edge-book thing could be completely different I think. They already the Windows S edition which is locked

      • The Zune: Brown... Squirting...

        Yeah, Microsoft's problems aren't always related to engineering. Geeks hate to admit it, but for mass market products, you need to build products people like to look at and use, and marketing is actually important.

        • I don't think so. The right product would sell itself. Microsoft has glimpsed some of that magic back with Windows 95 and everybody lined up for it. And I'd say Solitaire droves sales after that.

          Microsoft can make fantastic hardware. They could make a fantastic "bing book." But old ways die hard and they can't find a way to let go of the Win 32 API. They could strike a dagger in competitors if they released there own cheap arm processor "chromebook." Or really strike fear into everyone with something entire

      • https://www.olimex.com/Product... [olimex.com] Stop using products made by yellow and brown slaves of Gogol and MacroShite.
      • It would be easy to say the Zune failed due to marketing but there were many factors against it. Yes the marketing didn't help but the Zune's problems were larger than that. First of which is they launched a product in a market that had peaked and was starting to fade. And MS is notorious for taking years and at least several revisions to get things working right. Apple's last entry in the MP3 market was the iPod Touch and other than minor refreshes they haven't done much to it in years. Secondly, the Zune
  • The last thing we need is another under powered piece of crap that will get pushed into schools. Besides, M$ has a rather impressive failure rate when trying to copy products that have already established themselves in the market.

  • Requirement:
    Must have the ability to download and install Chrome OS.

  • Doesn't understand (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kamapuaa ( 555446 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @12:12AM (#60207716) Homepage

    This is silly. Which hardware or OS or even browser being used is basically irrelevant. What matters is that Google has an ecosystem of programs (Google Classroom, Google Write, Google Calc, Youtube, GMail, etc.) that are all "free" and integrate nicely with each other. Students go to Google Classroom, their teacher assigns them a text and a Youtube video and then tells them to write a Google Doc about it.

    West Contra Cost school system just last year changed from $230 Windows Computers to $230 Chromebooks. It had very, very little effect on classrooms, because all students did on computers was load the web browser and go to Google Classroom. Actually, some students on yearbook are issued Macs. It's the same story, these students just turn on their browser and go to Google Classroom.

    • That's not at all what or why consumers buy Chromebooks, you can get G-suite stuff on pretty much any device imaginable. Why people buy Chromebooks is that they're cheap, fulfill a baseline set of functionality, and are really really hard to fuck up software wise by the average tech illiterate idiot/child that will be using them.

      Google's other software is a complete non issue, especially since they'd all theoretically work on an "Edgebook" just as well.

    • It's irrelevant for the end user, but it's not irrelevant to Micorosoft. They have their own Office356 and Teams stuff which they could push with a cheap "cloud" machine, instead they're letting Google get all these locked-in users.

  • If it provides privacy how would it be funded?
    Would you pay for it?
    google stuff is $ free because your the product they are selling.

    • If it provides privacy how would it be funded?

      By the money Microsoft will keep raking from business licenses of Office 365, once the kids who got used on the free version of EdgeBook + Microsoft Team + Office 365 grow up and start a job.

  • There are already price-competitive devices (Score:3)

    by slaker ( 53818 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @12:31AM (#60207738)

    Chromebooks start at maybe $150 for something with a 1280x720 screen and 2GB RAM. But mid-range models are in the $250 - $350 range and there are already plenty of Windows devices at that price point. Hell, Wal-mart sells an actually legit Ryzen R3, Full HD, 4GB, 120GB SSD machine for $320 - $350. That's a shockingly nice Windows PC for the money and it's well in line with what a nice Chromebook would have.

    What Microsoft could do that would help a lot for low end devices is to give organization administrators the ability to manage devices from a purely web interface. That's something I get with Google. Microsoft makes me putz around with AD and GPOs and assumes I want to buy or rent Windows Servers for all that stuff. Which, if I'm handing out $300 devices to people I want strict controls on, might not be in my plans. It's a cost and an extra layer of complexity that I might not want or need.

    I recognize that I'm suggesting an even more point and drool management interface here but I've been in schools where somebody who is being paid to teach second grade gets asked to do all the domain admin tasks during her free period. Non-Pros just wind up being afraid of the PCs if that's what they're given.

    • Chromebooks are not full pc's so that why it tablet like system works. AD and GPO give you a lot of control and there likely windows apps that are needed for school stuff anyways.

    • Before the pandemic caused a spike in demand for laptops, you could find a quad-core Ryzen laptops (with 8GB of RAM and 256 GB SSD) for around $350. With AMD's renewed competitiveness, quad-cores should quickly become entry-level once things return to normal.

      Chromebooks seem to put more of their budget into a nicer display (at least the mid-to-high end ones; cheap ones probably aren't great).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The difference is that Windows 10 runs like crap on a machine with 4GB RAM and you have all the problems associated with Windows machines, i.e. malware and updates.

      ChromeOS takes care of itself. I got my mum a Chromebook a couple of years ago and never had to do any maintenance on it, she never gets weird error messages or asked to wait for updates, no viruses, no issues at all.

      • ChromeOS takes care of itself.

        Actually ChromeOS takes care of the users, specifically the desire for a user to do anything that isn't approved by the Google overlord.

      • I have the machine in question. I'm planning to back up Windows and then switch to Linux, but for the record Windows 10 is running surprisingly well on this machine. Plus, it has two SODIMM slots and only one is populated. It's cheap to upgrade it to 8GB, but I haven't bothered to do so yet.

        You do have the problem of maintaining Windows if you run Windows. And I really don't see any benefit to Windows 10 over Windows 7, either. But it doesn't seem to consume much more than 7. And this laptop is really quite

    • in the $250 - $350 range and there are already plenty of Windows devices at that price point.

      There's a difference between a Windows device and a device running Windows. Friends don't let friends buy these cheap pieces of junk, at least without nuking Windows and installing Lubuntu or some other light weight OS on it.

      Fundamentally though Microsoft already did try to compete with the Chromebook. Remember the Surface RT? Yeah me neither so I can't really criticise the analyst.

  • The last thing we need is an underpowered, cloud-dependent, privacy-invading device that gets pushed into schools.

  • Privacy? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darkpixel2k ( 623900 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @01:46AM (#60207862)
    > Microsoft's strongest competitive point would be the greater focus on privacy, one of the best reasons to use Edge versus Chrome today. I guess your browser can totally respect privacy when you're operating system gives you all the telemetry you need outside of the browser.
    • Holy crap I should stop posting from mobile. That's some of the worst formatting and auto-correct grammar I've spewed out in a long time... "your". Sorry--just had to correct that for the record....
  • Using a Mickeysoft product is about like skateboarding on the side of a razor blade and falling on your crotch.

  • No. Who cares? Sure. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Short answer: No, there's no obvious need.

    Long answer: Who cares? Few would buy it. Better and cheaper options already exist.

    Longer answer: Sure. I hope they do, and that they fail yet again to understand what it would be for, make it too Windows-centric, and - of course - way too expensive.

  • If it can run teams, it can run anything :)

  • I forget one thing : - buy a popular phone maker

  • Windows S Mode and Windows RT.
    • And those were banner successes, weren't they? While Microsoft COULD do it successfully, they are unlikely to be able to come out with a device that is as secure as a Chromebook and not sabotage their Windows line. Plus, while Google isn't known for privacy, they are known for not having their data stolen by others. Remember, Microsoft is the only company I know of that got fined by the US Gov't for having customers' private data hacked several times. (Remember Microsoft Passport?) This doesn't mean the
  • Anyone who has launched the new Edge could tell you why it's compatible with Chrome - they just forked Chromium keeping the general look and feel and mostly changing some of the menu item text and some of the settings. That's it. I guess they've decided it was too expensive to maintain and develop Edge and have decided to mostly coast off Chrome.

    I kind of feel sorry for business users of Windows trying to figure out wtf to do with their browser at the moment. Microsoft has basically gone through FOUR brow

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Moochman ( 54872 )
      Technically the Edge "classic" engine is just a further iteration of Trident. What's the fourth engine you're referring to?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DrXym ( 126579 )
        The original MSIE engine. That was massively overhauled to be Trident in IE11. Then they massively rewrote it again to become EdgeHTML engine. Then they scrapped it for the Blink (Chrome) engine but kept the Edge browser name.

        While there was a developmental path, the engines were sufficiently distinct that they changed user agents and did not maintain backwards compatibility.

  • Spat my coffee at "Privacy" (Score:3)

    by Vandil X ( 636030 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @08:26AM (#60208396)
    This is the same company that released Windows 10. Effectively, first-party spyware is the OS now.

  • Privacy needs to be an org goal (Score:3)

    by dackroyd ( 468778 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @09:02AM (#60208484) Homepage

    > Microsoft's strongest competitive point would be the greater focus on privacy,

    This is not currently possible. Microsoft has many divisions that are seeking to make money from using the data of users.

    Until those divisions are sold off Microsoft will not be able to give a high enough priority to privacy of users.

  • The Chromebook only exists in the first place because it was literally easier to make a new Linux distribution than to make chrome for Android not suck. These days it's pretty decent, and has most of the features of the desktop browser, but at the time the Chromebook was created it was a sad little shit show. It was short on features and couldn't display many pages.

    You can buy a fairly decent Windows laptop any old day at Wally world for three hundred bucks. I know because I bought one. Sadly it's an HP, bu

  • No. (Score:3)

    by ElizabethGreene ( 1185405 ) on Sunday June 21, 2020 @11:59AM (#60208902)

    No. The key advantage to Windows is Windows. Making a not-Windows, even if it looks like Windows, is not to their advantage.

    I'd hoped that Windows RT taught them that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Branding it windows only works if it's compatible with existing versions. Otherwise the name might get some sales, but most of these users will be unhappy customers.
      Using an existing brand creates an expectation, users expect compatibility - they expect to be able to run any random windows application they might acquire, they also expect the usual problems of updates and malware, and the expectation of running various third party security software that kills performance.

      If you make something which is fully

  • They could call them "Edge Lords".

  • All the uselessness of a thin World Wide Web client, plus the annoyance of Windows.

    The consumers MS has never been able to connect with will surely clamor for it.

  • Also always with someone else's product that actually functions... As opposed to the joke garbage they're famous for. All flash, no real substance and usually about as secure as a kid's lunchbox with the lid open.

  • Everybody who gives a fuck, raise your hands.
    I don't see any hands.

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