Microsoft Removes Manual Deferrals From Windows Update By IT Pros 'To Prevent Confusion' (zdnet.com) 115
Microsoft is removing the ability for business users to defer manually Windows 10 feature updates using Windows Update settings starting with the Windows 10 2004/May Update. Microsoft seemingly made this change public with a change in its Windows 10 2004 for IT Pros documentation on June 23. From a report: Microsoft officials say this change is happening in the name of reducing confusion. Here's the explanation from the Microsoft page (which I saw thanks to WindowsTimes.com), and which I had heard about from a reader last week. (Last week, I assumed this was a bug, but now it seems like it's actually a "feature.") "Last year, we changed update installation policies for Windows 10 to only target devices running a feature update version that is nearing the end of service. As a result, many devices are only updating once a year. To enable all devices to make the most of this policy change, and to prevent confusion, we have removed deferrals from the Windows Update settings Advanced Options page starting on Windows 10, version 2004."
This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:5, Informative)
"If you wish to continue leveraging deferrals, you can use local Group Policy (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Windows Update for Business > Select when Preview builds and Feature Updates are received or Select when Quality Updates are received)."
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:5, Funny)
"If you wish to continue leveraging deferrals, you can use local Group Policy (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Windows Update for Business > Select when Preview builds and Feature Updates are received or Select when Quality Updates are received)."
Then rub your belly and pat your head at the same time, click your heels together three times, spin around in place and chant "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!"
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“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
I don't know why, but there are some people who think unnecessarily complicated things are perfectly reasonable. The simplest approach would be to just leave this as an option, there's no need whatsoever to try and defend a deliberate obfuscati
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:5, Informative)
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When the method to defer a thing changes every couple months it doesn't matter if it exists.
It's only ever changed if your some end user chum who uses the Windows Settings which get fed through a random shit generator with every release.
Group Policy has had it in here since update deferrals were introduced years ago, and what goes into GP is usually quite stable in the long term.
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When the method to defer a thing changes every couple months it doesn't matter if it exists. Reading the update release notes is a shitload of work
Microsoft has been insistent from the very beginnings of Windows 10.
As a home user without a windows domain, you are not to stop updates. Ever.
All ways to do so for home users were, are, and will be a hack.
You speak like there was a proper way and it's being removed. The reality is there was never a proper way in Win 10, it was a hack, and you are complaining the hack was removed and it is too much work to find a new hack.
Microsoft started to remove the division between Home and Pro in 8.1, but in 10 it w
Re: This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:1)
>>The only way to maintain any control over 10 like this is to...
Use Linux.
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IT departments might have to keep up with changes in technology? How horrible!
Meh, who needs security patches. All the mailing lists I get from SANS, CERT, etc. say they are overrated. (cough)
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like you work in the accounting department ;)
IT people CAN'T keep up with technology any more - between the CIA's weaponised security flaws, the revolving backdoors, the lack of quality control on the parts of vendors, management hearing about the latest cool unproven alpha solution that solves all the problems, no training budget, no training time, the impossible task of preventing users falling for scams regardless of the cybersecurity training they get, BYOD, the surge in remote work tools and requirements, dealing with auditors who don't know wtf they are doing and requesting stuff that doesn't do what they think it does IT has become a farce and bottomless timesink for the professional IT guy.
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Really makes me appreciate my >80 year old "I don't know squat about IT, do your stuff and send me a fax when you're done" boss.
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, I have to jump through more hoops than the average dolphin at Sea World to do what I could do with a simple click to the pellet feeder before. That may be reasonable if I was a dolphin in the entertainment business earning my keep by keeping kids happy, but what's the excuse when I'm just someone trying to use an operating system.
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I agree that this is deprecation through obfuscation. I agree that the move should be criticized. I disagree that the Group Policy editor is mysterious or hard to use. I think it is flat out wrong to imply that managing things like this through Group Policies is an onerous change for a Windows business administrator. Such a person should already be doing it this way.
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:4, Insightful)
And what about the people who just want to get their work done and neither employ their personal four-letter-trained administrator nor want to become certified minesweeper consultant and solitaire expert themselves just to get their shit done?
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It's a useful example of how centralization of power leads to abuse of power. Most people seem still unaware of this, or attribute it only to governments, so more examples are useful You should praise Microsoft for this lesson.
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So next time I teach a company that their security is crappy by trashing it I get praised instead of jailed?
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Not "instead of", but rather "as well as".
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but what's the excuse when I'm just someone trying to use an operating system.
Why are you playing with that setting if you're just trying to "use an operating system". You sound like one of those administrator types. I bet you have a beard and everything.
Personally this is good news. More people will be beta testing releases than before so those of us capable of using the group policy editor will receive even more bug free software less likely to delete our drives with every update.
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:4, Interesting)
It should not be the responsibility of the public to test products before they become available. That's what those overpaid hacks at companies are for. It's called Quality Assurance in some circles.
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Oh I agree, but that ship has sailed. ... Right off the edge of the fucking flat earth when Windows Updates started nuking user files. So at this point we may as well make the best of it, upgrade out friends and relatives to Windows 10 Pro, and use group policy to prevent them from becoming victims.
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Time for me to bug out, I guess. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Re:This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:4, Informative)
That is WHERE to find it but missed WHAT to set it to:
1. Windows+R: gpedit. msc
2. Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Windows Update for Business > Select when Preview builds and Feature Updates are received or Select when Quality Updates are received
3. Edit
4. (x) Enabled
5. Select the Windows readiness level for the updates you receive: Semi-Annual Channel
6. After a Preview Build or Feature Update is released delay, defer for: 180 days
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Too bad normal Windows installs can't use the group policy editor. AFAIK even the hacks to enable it on a Windows Home install are gone.
Guess how nice it is for Windows to decide to install a driver update that can't be (permanently) skipped, the "update" is from 2017 and have been superseded by many versions including a stable one from 2020. But not a problem, Microsoft in their benevolence and wisdom provides a means to skip updates that for instance make the system instabile - an utility where one can se
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Is this setting to disable automatic driver updates relevant?
advanced system settings > hardware > device installation settings
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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>"Replace my operating system with a slightly different one periodically without my knowledge"
I've found your problem... you're still thinking of it as *your* operating system. Microsoft long since made the decision that you're just a user of *their* operating system. As I recall it started back in the XP days, and has been gaining steam ever since - I assume because you need to boil a frog slowly if you don't want it to jump out of the pot.
If you want to own your OS today, you pretty much need to go w
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A person can defend the truth without defending Microsoft. Try to avoid becoming so tribal that you can't tell the difference.
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The best part of this is a new setting that lets you set which version you want your machines to stay on. I.e. To get your machines to go to and stay on 1903 you use the new Select the Target Feature Update Version setting.
This is a thousand times better than using the old time based deferral policies.
Re: This is sensationalist. You can still do it. (Score:1)
Ugh... Armageddon awaits!!!
I Am Altering the Deal (Score:5, Funny)
The End of Windows (Score:2)
Re:The End of Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
What a coincidence, I just bought a Windows 10 laptop from Wally world... and put Mint on it. It runs faster, it works better (the AMD graphics driver for Windows was crashing on mundane operations like resuming from suspend — so far the Linux driver is solid) and I don't have to screw with Microsoft.
YMMV, but fuck Microsoft with a rubber chicken. Microsoft is a criminal conspiracy which can do no right.
Re:The End of Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
" fuck Microsoft with a rubber chicken"
you are far too humane!
Bare minimum is a nail bat!
Re:The End of Windows (Score:5, Funny)
I really don't see why you need to punish the rubber chicken that way.
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What did the rubber chicken do to deserve that ???
Win 98 was the one that made me switch. Currently happy with FreeBSD.
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Ha, I remember getting Windows 98 and later I gave the review to some friends as "didn't suck as much as I thought it would." It actually was a big improvement over Windows 95.
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But you still PAID for that license of Windows without noticing.
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The curious thing is that most companies that also sell Linux systems, will actually charge you more for Linux on the exact same hardware.
I suspect the fact is that it's effectively not you paying for the Windows license, so much as all the publishers that payed to have their crapware pre-installed at the factory. Frankly I don't really have a problem letting crapware publishers buy me a Windows license and hardware discount. It would be nice to have an option to pay the extra $20 or whatever to get a pri
Re: The End of Windows (Score:2)
I don't like Windows as either as the next guy on slashdot. My opinion is each organization free or commercial make a great product and shitty other stuff. Gnu makes great kernels and fairly good development tools (heat compilers and ok idea which are aging) but horrid client productivity software. Microsoft is the opposite and makes world class great Office and productivity tools products, good development tools (vs code gives emacs a run and their compilers are improving and embracing Android and Python),
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Sorry to hear about your crappy HP laptop. My crappy HP laptop is all-AMD inside (and realtek ethernets, samsung RAM...) and the only hitch I had was getting wifi driver support. If you were buying a machine with Linux on it, someone else would install the driver for you. I didn't, so I had to do things that no ordinary user would know how to do. (Specifically, I used termux to install and run git so I could fetch the sources on my phone, and then transferred them to my PC where I ran an included script whi
It is an adjustment. (Score:4, Informative)
Do you have experience using Linux? When you first make the switch, many surprises and curve balls are thrown at you. Linux support forums always have a steady stream of posts with phrases like "I have never had this problem in windows!" from new converts. Unless you already have experience, you will likely join them.
I had a "fun" new-Linux-user experience a few weeks after switching, when my system suddenly refused to boot. I had to use a still-working laptop to hit the Internet to figure out how to troubleshoot this. It was a journey involving all kinds of linux command line commands about which I knew nothing.
The root cause? I had attempted to install Logitech mouse drivers under Wine. The installation failed, but it still set up something that tried to launch on startup. Every time it did so, it got stuck in a loop that spammed a wine error log with the same error, without end. The name of this error log was prefixed with a "." character, making it invisible to me, and I had no idea it even existed. It filled up my entire terabyte hard drive, and that was what was preventing boot.
Problems like this scare people away from Linux, and I think that is very understandable. You either need the technical prowess to learn these troubleshooting tools and techniques from sparse online documentation, or you need a Linux buddy who already knows it all. OR, you can keep putting up with Microsoft's abuse. Neither option is ideal, but for me personally, the freedom of Linux is worth the cost.
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Out of curiosity, what functionality did you need from the windows Logitech mouse drivers? Were you trying to get some auxiliary piece of Logitech software to work?
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It was "setpoint" which I wanted because I used it to remap some of the mouse buttons.
I found a different way. There is always a way. I now just use "xinput" to remap the mouse buttons the way I want, and I have that script launch on startup.
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Don't forget to turn off any Logitech software before using sleep, they do not sleep well at all. Logitech software is crap nowadays and do not let it autoupdate.
Forced update is all about total control, they can actively shut down an entire country with a forced update, this should be illegal, they do not have the right to force software installs and should ask permission every single time.
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Interesting.... I'm using a Logitech 5-button trackball right now with no other changes to a default install. *shrug* I haven't had any probs with Logitech products since about 2003 IIRC.
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"I haven't had any probs with Logitech products since about 2003 IIRC."
My right mouse button disagrees with you.
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Really? I never managed to get Setpoint to run under Linux. The mouse ITSELF worked fine, but I couldn't use Setpoint to tweak its settings at a whim.
Also I have a G13 gaming keypad (its a programmable mini one-hand keyboard for your left hand, with a thumbstick, intended for gamers), which became a brick when I switched to Linux. I found that someone had reverse-engineered drivers for the G13 that gives you some of its functionality, but not all of it and it was too troublesome to use.
Re: It is an adjustment. (Score:2)
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For a consumer product you generally test things to be sure an average consume can use them. But, for quite a long time in the past there was the attitude that linux was for experts and there was no need to dumb it down (and then some of those would turn around and wonder why it wasn't taking over the desktop). Forget being intimidating for the average home user, it's intimidating for the average IT help desk person in a large corporation!
Yes, leave in all the advanced options, no one wants Linux to be li
Re: It is an adjustment. (Score:2)
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I've had this issue under Windows
I've had this issue under Wine - which is basically Windows
I've not had this issue under Linux
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I am immensely curious; what made you expect Windows mouse drivers would work on Linux? Did you read about that somewhere?
That seems like a rather curious thing to try, and very far from a typical user experience.
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I was a new Linux user, and understood that WINE was a compatibility layer that let you run Windows programs on Linux. I knew that they didn't always work, and the advice I had been given was "just try it."
So I did. And it got an error during installation, so I gave up.
I didn't expect that it would leave behind an instruction to try and launch itself on start up from then on, fail from then on, but not show me any kind of visible error message, and instead get stuck in a loop where it flooded a log with e
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That's nothing. At least in this case the system bombed because you were trying to install 3rd-party software.
A recent experience of mine with Mint was that after installation, there were files in the recycle bin. I tried to empty it, and was promptly told I don't have security privileges to empty the recycle bin. This left me unable to clear ANY space on my SSD after deleting files. Turns out, this is a known bug in Mint that's been around for years. The only way to fix it is to go to a command prompt
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For me the Linux Mint MATE has been the most stable desktop experience. Mainly because they don't innovate every six months or change things for the sake of it.
Re:It is an adjustment. (Score:4, Insightful)
To be fair, if you take someone who's been using Windows for the last 20 years and knows the ins and outs of it, how to troubleshoot it, and how to fix common problems and drop them in front of something they are completely unfamiliar with, it's hardly surprising they might run into issues that they won't be able to solve immediately without some help. I'd also expect the opposite - take someone who's familiar with the ins and outs of Linux and somehow has never seen Windows before, and give them a Windows disk and tell them to install and use it and they're going to run similar issues. Heck, I'm sure their first question is going to be along the lines of why doesn't all their hardware work after installing Windows (admittedly Microsoft has made pretty big strides here but still...).
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In the late 1980's I accidently caused a Unix computer to fill its hard drive with "y" characters. I was copying a program file from our Prime computer to try it out on our MicroVax. It had a batch script that would do copying between the computers at the end of the day. The script seemed to be taking a long time to submit my file so I control-c'ed out of it and tried again. Next day one of our computer technicians came to me and asked how I had managed to fill the Unix computer's hard drive up. What had ha
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Ha. 7 is my last Windows version even though MS and others dropped support. I hate 8 and 10. ME too. Vista was better. I will just go to Linux and/or macOS, but then those OSes have their own issues too.
Welcome to Windows as a service (Score:3)
Re: Welcome to Windows as a service (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't work for a huge enterprise. Where exactly do I get a valid license for the LTS branch of Windows 10?
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I can sell it to you for $7/mo.
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I don't work for a huge enterprise. Where exactly do I get a valid license for the LTS branch of Windows 10?
Valid license? I already have a license for Windows 10 that came with my computer. True, it didn't come with that particular FLAVOR I'll admit, but it works (and has for over a year) just fine with nary a surprise "feature" added.
Yep, so that means I'm a pirate, I guess. Not a business, just a single individual (with a domain with ~10 users). But with my PC I've already paid for a license, I just choose to not be a primary beta tester for Microsoft. And unlike Open Source's Mantra (Release Early a
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I'll just stick with my valid license for Windows 7 for now for my Windows PC. The fact that it's immune from Microsoft's Windows Update shenanigans is a feature. Yes, it's out of support, but being smart about things, not installing attack vectors like Flash/Adobe Reader/Java, and running a firewall and an up to date antivirus, I don't really consider much more unsafe than running an up to date version of Windows. Eventually Windows 7 is going to lose software support, browser support, etc. but I figure
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Yes, it's out of support
Oh no! Who’s going to read web search results in a thick Indian accent to you now?
Re: Welcome to Windows as a service (Score:1)
Your work paid Microsoft for security updates. Windows 7 was my favorite of all Windows operating systems but it's obsolete and insecure if you do anything with a credit card on your PC.
What I had to do was upgrade to Windows 10 pro. You can buy a legit OEM license key online for $15. From there you can delay Feature updates for 365 days and security for 30 days as a compromise.
I am not thrilled with the lack of QA but it has improved over the years. My home system is now 6 months behind which stomps 95% of
in the name of reducing confusion (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Their big money is in large corporate clients."
The ones most affected by this news. The ones with the most money and power to making their displeasure heard. Yes Microsoft is confused in thinking they have more power than they really do.
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> > "Their big money is in large corporate clients."
> The ones most affected by this news. The ones with the most money and power to making their displeasure heard.
The ones with the most complaints will be IT and support people. The ones with the most money and power to making their displeasure heard are CEOs. The latter are not affected. They just tell the first group to "deal with it".
Re: in the name of reducing confusion (Score:2)
They fired their QA team and think agile software development with tools and monitoring can do the job just as well ðY£.
Basically hey we have the feedback forum and telemetry so no QA needed etc. True bsods are a thing of the past now ... but if a bug is not logable it doesn't exist
Local control of Windows Update? Good riddance! (Score:2)
Back in the early 2000s, we had a local update server in Syracuse that was being governed by an IT department that released all the updates after they've been checked out locally... allowing a day of attacks on the newly patched flaws for most users there. Seems like a bad Windows Update is so few and far between that this caused more problems than solutions. Goodbye local control, back to Microsoft international control.
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Back when Microsoft actually did reasonable testing of patches..
Still - even back in the glory days of the early 2000's i recall having to go to sites physically to roll back a windows update that had left Win2k servers in blue screen boot states.
Re: Local control of Windows Update? Good riddance (Score:2)
Glory days? I know slashdotters are getting old now but XP sucked ass. Those were the darkest days in terms of security vulnerabilities and bugs. It took 2 service packs to get XP somewhat usable to Windows 2000 which lacked USB plug and play requiring a long reboot if you moved your mouse
They are not lying (Score:3)
It should clear up the confusion some still had concerning whether or not they have any say in how the operating system the computer they allegedly own is running.
You're tackling the wrong problem, Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
If your updates were not so buggy, shabby and prone to either deleting critical content, introducing more bugs than they're worth or simply bricking the system altogether, people would not try to push updates as far back as possible to avoid being the guinea pig for your updates.
Cluestick to MS: It's not YOUR computer (Score:5, Informative)
I sometimes run jobs that take days, weeks, and months to complete.
Stop making me jump through all this bullshit. It is NOT your computer.
All this does is just push me to turn off your updates once and for all like I did in Windows 7 -- in that scenario it was because you intentionally did NOT describe _exactly_ what the updates did and were constantly trying to sneak in Telemetry and Forced Upgrades.
Stop fucking dis-respecting MY computer and time Microsoft.
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MS might not own the hardware but they own the OS, just read the Windows license, MS is providing a service that they can change anytime they want.
If you want to "own" you OS too your going to need to ditch Windows.
I know, I know, the software applications you use don't have non Windows versions. I'm in the same boat, I have software that I have to use that only comes in a Windows version.
Complain to your software suppliers, look for non Windows alternatives that at least do what you need done.
In the mean
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This is why you need to ditch Windows - own the OS, regain control of your hardware
Top500 - the fastest computers on earth, all, without exception, run Linux
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FYI, for everything else I do I have a separate GNU/Linux system. Except for those two programs I mentioned everything else I do is NOT on a Windows system.
I've been working at getting the two remaining Windows applications working with WINE but it has been slow going, but I am getting closer to being able to leave Windwos completely behind for good.
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I know, I know, the software applications you use don't have non Windows versions. I'm in the same boat, I have software that I have to use that only comes in a Windows version.
When you do that be sure to tell the vendor: "I'm not paying for your product any more because you don't have a linux version. If you had a linux version I'd still be your customer." If they don't know why customers are leaving they have no way to fix the issue.
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Familiarize yourself with words like “unconscionable” and “illusory”.
Just because it’s in a user “agreement” doesn’t mean it’s legal, enforceable, or anything else.
Adhesion contracts (TOSes and the like) aren’t true contracts, and enforcement depends on many factors, not just what’s written on the page.
The more nefarious a clause, the less likely it will be deemed enforceable, and for everything you give up, you must receive valuable consider
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Stop fucking dis-respecting MY computer and time Microsoft.
We’ve considered your request and it is hereby denied. Your computer is going down for reboot in 45 seconds.
- Microsoft
Problems in pespective (Score:2)
Usually when I hear news like this I smile a bit, happy for having forsaken Windows for Linux almost 15 years ago. But at the moment I'm transitioning from an older Xubuntu to a beta Mint, and trying to wrestle the GTK3 developers' sad excuse for UI design into something workable, or at least livable. So now the news makes me grit my teeth a little less hard, and I'm less unhappy in the knowledge that my computing experience could be far, far worse than it is - I could be stuck with the collection of spywar
Why the specific build number? UBUNTU! (Score:1)
Ubuntu just released "20.04", so now Microsoft is releasing 2004.
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Re: Why the specific build number? UBUNTU! (Score:2)
That too was shit before the January and February updates fixed issues with the Windows Store and chipset drivers
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With the difference that 20.04 was tested, will work and will without a second thought be installed by about everyone using it, while 2004 was not tested, will most likely break a sizable portion of the machines subjected to it and every administrator will light the candles in front of his Turing shrine to appease the machine gods in the vain hope to avoid breaking critical infrastructure.
Windows updates are not *only* windows updates (Score:5, Interesting)
If they only were like service packs of the old, and given the recent rapid changes in security landscape I could have agreed. But the *feature* updates are essentially point version releases.
I remember:
* In one update they forced online logins. After doing the update, and a full reset later on, I was no longer able to create a local only login.
* In a more recent one they changed the start menu into a popup kinda thing. And the cortona/search integration varies a lot between releases
* In the latest release they broke remote printing for many users. It looks like they don't even properly check what they push as software anymore.
The Microsoft of the old was very adamant in compatibility. I could disagree with them on many matters, but this was one area they shined. Reportedly, they had an entire lab with all windows versions, in all languages, with all possible service packs with physical hardware. I heard they also tested major software (like antiviruses, office, etc) on those machines. Before they pushed an update they made sure it was running on all of them.
Now, they just push it to us as beta (or even alpha) users. There is little care in case something breaks. And now they no longer offer an opt-out. That is really a big disappointment.
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If you didn't want to be an alpha tester, you should have paid for Pro, and an IT team to lock it down. :-(
Submitted from Windows 10 Version 1903 (Score:2)
I use a hardware firewall to prevent all Microsoft traffic. The machine has never had a forced update, and the OS works "good enough". Microsoft patches are more likely to cause harm than good.
Just disable the DHCP service and no more updates. (Score:1)
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Licensing (Score:2)
The OS as a “service” more or less rendered notions of private property moot. It’s your machine, you paid for it, but someone else entirely decided when and what gets installed on it. The 20% get what the 80% will accept, and the 80% don’t really understand or don’t care that they pay thousands for a computer, yet someone else uses it for their benefit, often without consideration of the computer owner’s best interests.
Then, if the computer breaks, the entity that
One more reason... (Score:2)
StopUpdates10 (Score:2)
I've used StopUpdates10 for some time now because I was sick of infrequently used computers never doing what I wanted when I wanted and constantly being unavailable due to windows updates.
Now if that software or any other major anti-virus vendor would just remove the Chrome software reporter tool malware...
Fuck Microsoft (Score:2)
I had thought I disabled automatic updates by following a guide online. I was giving a presentation in front of over 100 people on my laptop, which because it is a laptop mostly used in the field is not on my domain. You can guess what happened when I booted up.
Luckily I was able to borrow someone else's laptop and they had Powerpoint installed and I had the presentation on a thumbdrive.
Fuck Microsoft. I complained to them but they said it was my fault for wearing slutty clothes.