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Charter Seeks FCC Permission to Impose Data Caps and Charge Fees to Video Services (arstechnica.com) 102

"Charter Communications has asked federal regulators for permission to impose data caps on broadband users and to seek interconnection payments from large online video providers, starting next year," writes Ars Technica.

Long-time Slashdot reader Proudrooster shares their report: Charter, unlike other ISPs, isn't allowed to impose data caps and faces limits on charges for interconnection payments because of conditions applied to its 2016 purchase of Time Warner Cable. The conditions were imposed by the Federal Communications Commission for seven years and are scheduled to elapse in May 2023. Last week, Charter submitted a petition asking the FCC to let the conditions run out on May 18, 2021 instead. The FCC is seeking public comment on the petition...

When it sought FCC permission for the merger, it told the FCC that it provides service "without any data caps, usage-based pricing, or modem fees" and that it "has been involved in no notable disputes over traffic management and has long practiced network neutrality."

When contacted by Ars yesterday, Charter said it doesn't "currently" plan to impose data caps or change its interconnection policy, but it wants the option to do so.

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Charter Seeks FCC Permission to Impose Data Caps and Charge Fees to Video Services

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  • and all of the anti-net-neutrality people that I've known (mostly Conservatives) are convinced that the poor, poor telcos are being robbed by greedy customers taking advantage of the "unlimited" offer.

    They have no concept of "oversubscribed" or "upgrades"
    And they certainly have no concept of "Anti-trust"

    • All the anti-net neutrality people I know are convinced the government should stop awarding cable monopolies, and should just allow multiple cable companies to compete. That way there's a market incentive for the cable companies to provide the most bandwidth for the lowest price. The only reason a cable company is able to get away with throttling Netflix is because they know their customers can't switch to a different cable company.

      And they certainly have no concept of "Anti-trust"

      Anti-trust isn't even an

      • As opposed to doing what other countries do, and let the ISP's lease space on the line. Levelling the playing field. One thing I do know, the idea of levelling the playing field has marked me as a "socialist" in the USA.

      • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Saturday June 27, 2020 @01:36PM (#60235294) Homepage Journal

        What they don't know is that cable monopolies aren't being handed out all that much any more. It's mostly "gentleman's agreements" between cable companies keeping the monopolies going now. There's few enough players that they can come to such tacit agreements.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Simply not possible to do, it is exactly the same as demanding, we can not have roads and footpaths provided by one company (the government), we want competing roads and footpaths (for that to happen all the land on the planet would be consumed by roads and footpaths.

        There realistically can be no competition in fibreoptic connections and there should be one backbone supplied by the government and you pay to access it. They can have retail/business providers between you and the government backbone (down eve

  • ... the best advertisement for Starlink money can buy.
    • But there is no way for a Starlink to be able to provide adequate service beyond about 20 customers per square mile IIRC.

      I would say it is a better advertisement for municipal dumb fiber for independent ISPs. Keep the physical last mile a public service, and give competitive options for service on said pipe.

  • Charter's problem here is that they need some help from the streamers in order to get the data they want closer to the users. YouTube is no longer explainable as just one server. Amazon's the same way, and both Google and Amazon have enough data centers to rent VPSes to nearly anybody who wants one.

    P2P was the wrong business model for the Internet. Even if there was payment, it still overran local line limits. Consumer bandwidth is designed to give you fast download and okay upload... if you're uploading a

    • by i.r.id10t ( 595143 ) on Saturday June 27, 2020 @11:47AM (#60234892)

      " Consumer bandwidth is designed to give you fast download and okay upload..."

      Change that to American consumer bandwidth. Synchronous speeds are common in the rest of the world.

    • by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Saturday June 27, 2020 @12:34PM (#60235044)

      So, with "net neutrality" dead, they need to get some better links between YouTube, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, CBS All Access, Peacock, etc. The question Charter is asking is why they have to pay for this, while everything is profitable on the other side of the line.

      Other than the fact that is what consumers are paying Charter to do? That's like saying if people want more clean water why should the water company pay for that. Also like the water company, it's not like consumers have much of a choice in most areas.

      B2B negotiations here... with the FCC being asked to fast-forward a limitation.

      No the FCC is being asked to revoke a key restriction Charter agreed to when they purchased another ISP.

      Really, this doesn't amount to much if you don't invest in these players.

      What a ludicrous statement. What you're saying is that it doesn't matter much if I don't choose stream content at all. See all I use my internet for is to forward cat photos. . . . that's why I need a minimum of 30 mbps down. Some of us use those services and have Charter. It doesn't affect you so it's not a problem right?

    • No, Charter’s problem is that they have a stranded asset in the cable television franchise and they want to pay it off from someone other than the end users in order to not loose even more customers.

      The internet is multipoint to multipoint. Trying to fight that means you will compromise other services that are not as highly centralized, but equally (or more) important. Business VPNs scream out currently in that category.

    • Charter's problem here is that they need some help from the streamers in order to get the data they want closer to the users. YouTube is no longer explainable as just one server. Amazon's the same way, and both Google and Amazon have enough data centers to rent VPSes to nearly anybody who wants one.

      P2P was the wrong business model for the Internet. Even if there was payment, it still overran local line limits. Consumer bandwidth is designed to give you fast download and okay upload... if you're uploading a lot to the world, you need a business line and that makes you pay more.

      So, with "net neutrality" dead, they need to get some better links between YouTube, Hulu, Disney+, HBO Max, CBS All Access, Peacock, etc. The question Charter is asking is why they have to pay for this, while everything is profitable on the other side of the line. B2B negotiations here... with the FCC being asked to fast-forward a limitation. Really, this doesn't amount to much if you don't invest in these players.

      So, you're saying that it is inevitable that my $190 Charter/Spectrum Internet + TV bill that went to $65 + various Streaming Subscription fees (total of about $120 for everything), is about to go back up to the same $190 PLUS the Streaming Subscription Fees? And that's ok?

      So much for cord-cutting...

      • by arQon ( 447508 )

        > So, you're saying that it is inevitable that my $190 Charter/Spectrum Internet + TV bill that went to $65 + various Streaming Subscription fees (total of about $120 for everything), is about to go back up to the same $190 PLUS the Streaming Subscription Fees?

        Yes, it is. Except you forgot that it'll actually be more than that, because you'll exceed your cap every month.

        > And that's ok?

        No, it's not. But that's what a corrupt FCC and legislative branch gets you - and I don't just mean *this current* FC

        • by arQon ( 447508 )

          To clarify a few things for the inevitable "but, muh capitalisms!"...

          Charter reached its current position overwhelmingly via taxpayer funding, has a government-supported monopoly in its region, and a collusion agreement with the other cableco's - the only organisations capable of "competing" at this point - not to do so. It has taken millions (in the 10s or 100s range by now, I expect) of dollars from the government to "build out" and not followed through on those commitments, and of course not returned tha

        • But it's only BECAUSE they haven't been able to pull exactly the kind of shit that they're now trying to. If we had competition in the US market, I wouldn't care if they could do this or not. But we don't, and they are LITERALLY the only game in town, here and in hundreds of other towns in the West.

          I know. In my largish city, there are exactly 2 Cable providers, who both have protected territories, negotiated about 40 years or so ago. One eventually became CommieCast, and the other eventually became Spectrum. So, you "choose your cable provider" based on where you live. That is in no way "competition".

          But all that being said, I am quite glad I ended up in Spectrum-dom. A bad as any Cable provider is, CommieCast is usually the worse-choice. But it will still suck if they are allowed to play "overage" g

  • I call bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dirk ( 87083 ) <dirk@one.net> on Saturday June 27, 2020 @11:08AM (#60234750) Homepage

    "Charter said it doesn't "currently" plan to impose data caps or change its interconnection policy, but it wants the option to do so."

    Yeah, that is complete bullshit. We have no plans to do this, but have discussed this enough that we went through all the trouble to petition the FCC to let us do it "just in case". You do not go through all of that, including the negative press that comes with it, without a plan in place to use it.

    • Yeah, when folks yearn for the "good 'ole days" for me that means back to when we could tar and feather jackasses like whoever felt that particularly lie needed to be voiced.

    • Yeah that's like saying I am not looking to use your car this weekend but I want the option to do so. If your car disappears on Saturday, you were warned. All doublespeak
    • "Charter said it doesn't "currently" plan to impose data caps or change its interconnection policy, but it wants the option to do so."

      Yeah, that is complete bullshit. We have no plans to do this, but have discussed this enough that we went through all the trouble to petition the FCC to let us do it "just in case". You do not go through all of that, including the negative press that comes with it, without a plan in place to use it.

      Yes, they don't plan to currently. Totally believable to.
      Because they plan to the very next January 1st after they get permission.

  • modem fees?? Like $12.99 to rent or $12.99 use you own access fee?

    • Sometimes both. If you rent your modem from an ISP they will charge you. Absurd prices. Some ISPs will also charge you if you buy your own to use. But what are you going to do: change ISPs? Muahahaha.
    • Charter provides modems for free. At one point it was to force you to use theirs, but now you can bring your own. They do charge $5 per month for a wireless router if you opt for that.

    • modem fees?? Like $12.99 to rent or $12.99 use you own access fee?

      Actually, Spectrum's MODEM is not an extra charge. I don't think that gets rebated if you BYOM; but I could be wrong.

      I do know that I got rebated $5 because I told them I wasn't using the WiFi portion of their MODEM/Router (I use a downstream WiFi Router in Bridge mode). Interestingly enough, they didn't disable the WiFi; but still didn't charge me for it. I went in to the Spectrum (Arris) Router and disabled it myself.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • And where do I go? The alternative in Lexington, KY for me is Windstream, and where I live, it's low grade DSL speed, like 5-15 down, .5 - 1 up. MetroNet exists but not in my area, and they don't plan to run fibre anytime soon.
    • Bahahaha. That's based on the silly notion that consumers have options. Spoiler alert: many don't. Technically my city has 5 options. In my neighborhood, I have exactly 1 that is practical. I could get satellite internet which is impractical. I could maybe find a dialup provider which also impractical. I could pay to run fiber to my phone (also impractical to spend millions to get fiber). So I'm stuck with the ISP.
  • Double dipping (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stikves ( 127823 ) on Saturday June 27, 2020 @11:21AM (#60234804) Homepage

    This is plain and simple double-dipping by the ISPs.

    I pay a monthly fee to connect my home to their uplink. I do this specifically because they peer with other major Internet nodes. In theory they advertise to do so, and given $100 Billions of profits on many telcos, they should have the funds to fulfill that obligation: https://about.att.com/story/20... [att.com].

    But then they go to the services I want to access, and ask them for protection money... ahem... extortion racket... sorry... fees to deliver service to their customers. I have already paid the telco to do that. But they realize they have the power to say "see. your service has these nice customers using my uplink. it would be bad if something happened to their packets"

    And this is not counting the triple-dipping efforts (like changing DNS to have sponsored ads).

    • While I generally agree with you, how do you reconcile the ISP’s cost for their end of the interconnection to yet another service? Peering isn’t free.

      • While I generally agree with you, how do you reconcile the ISP’s cost for their end of the interconnection to yet another service? Peering isn’t free.

        If I'm paying them for an allotment of bandwidth and a connection to the greater internet and not just their network then how is it not already built into the bill I pay every month. Charging multiple parties for the same service is double billing.

        • Say Comcast has 100,000 customers they sell a 100Mb pipe to. That means they need peering for about 100Gb with standard contention rates. That does not guarantee adequate capacity if everybody is using Netflix at the same time, so the typical approach is to directly interconnect with their CDN. That interconnection is generally in excess of the base peering.

          So, say that the equipment associated with that supplemental peer, along with time required to manage it on an ongoing basis is $10,000/month, and ma

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        The whole reason I am paying them is because they do the peering. That cost is already covered by my monthly payment to them to provide me internet connectivity.

        They COULD reduce their costs by going to major sources of traffic their customers want and making a mutually less expensive deal, but instead, they just go to them and demand protection money. For example, go to netflix and offer colo and bandwidth for a sweet deal if those colo-ed nodes only serve other customers on their own network. Suddenly the

        • The logistics of the agreements I have had any direct insight on would mean in your case Netflix needs to rent a rack in Comcast’s POP that likely serves less than a critical mass to make it work... and they cannot use transit on Comcast’s backbone— “they” wouldn’t just let you connect at each HUB and use the common backbone from there... and you would pay a fee for the port on Comcast’s end.

          That experience is several years ago (wow... maybe a 15 years!), before 100

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Comcast has their own backbone. They could avoid a lot of traffic over peering points by coloing Netflix in a few of their more central facilities, each reaching millions.

            I doubt very much that Netflix would refuse if the offered terms reflected the mutually beneficial nature of the colo.

  • Fuck charter (Score:5, Informative)

    by darkpixel2k ( 623900 ) on Saturday June 27, 2020 @11:23AM (#60234812)
    I have an office in a Charter-only area. We've had it for over 10 years. The internet connection started having problems, and I called them. I decided to upgrade from something like 50/5 to their new 150/20. I don't remember the speeds exactly. Anyways after spending 20 minutes on the phone "preparing the order" they finally tell me that my account is a special account managed by one person. After spending a week trying to get in touch with that one person, he finally calls back and goes to make the adjustment on my account, and then tells me that it's a legacy account and he can't adjust it unless he also fixes the phones. Apparently we have four phone lines with them. "Fixing the phones" apparently means adjusting the cost from $25 a phone line to $50 a phone line and charging a setup fee of $75.I'm told after the phones are adjusted, I will be able to upgrade my internet service. Fuck that. I call Comcast to see if they can port the numbers over to our EDI SIP trunk. Nope. Apparently due to some rules between Comcast and Charter, they can't port those numbers. I call my backup sip trunk provider, give them a copy of the bill, and give them the PIN code. Port fails due to an address mismatch. I called Charter, spend 30 minutes getting bounced around to different departments, and finally get told it's the address on the bill. Port gets rejected again. I repeat this cycle about 15 times over the course of two weeks, with Charter occasionally telling me the address is one way, or telling me the address is another way. They flat out refuse to let me talk to the department that is actually rejecting the transfer, and they refuse to put a note on the account saying to allow the transfer even if it's mismatched. They seem unable to tell me what the magic address is that's on the account that's being rejected. They also refuse to do a CSR copy. More time, more calls, more rejections. Finally after a month, and somewhere around 30 to 40 calls, I tell them to fuck off, and I complained to the public utilities commission, and the FCC. Two days later the port succeeds. I can't say it enough, fuck Charter.
    • by troutman ( 26963 )

      This is an extreme example, but fairly normal from what I have seen. They were doing "malicious compliance" with the verification of every last customer detail in the port request and their customer records. I have seen a telco reject a port request multiple times over just minor variations of the street address that the post office would not have had any trouble with.

      You should have saved yourself a bunch of time and filed the PUC and FCC complaints after the first 3 or 5 phone calls.

      • Yeah. They literally have our address in the following format: 123 Main Street CRN Nowhere, OR 99999-0000 What the fuck is CRN? No one would tell me. It's not on the customer bill. But it's in the magic system that only the number-port-rejecting team has access to. They also flip between requiring the state to be 'OR' and 'Ore' (capitalization matters), and sometimes it needs the comma between the city and state and sometimes it doesn't. The zip+4 literally ended with '-0000' too.
  • Shitty Charter keeps losing customers because of their shitty expensive service.
    • by quall ( 1441799 )

      With net neutrality gone, they are losing massive opportunity to gouge their customers and extort the streaming services. This contract restriction is really digging into their ability to do that, because it would otherwise be legal.

      When they make 100x more off their customers who have no alternative and stay, well they don't really care who leaves because those customer's wallets are insignificant compared to what the alternative is bringing in.

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      And some customers have NO other affordable broadband options. :(

  • Come on! The most important part of the entire article and THERE'S NO LINK TO POST A PUBLIC COMMENT! The FCC link is a PDF with a generic link to the comment database.

    I swear they're purposefully making it hard to enter a comment. Direct link to filing: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filin... [fcc.gov]

    Anyone figure out how to enter a public comment?

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      Come on! The most important part of the entire article and THERE'S NO LINK TO POST A PUBLIC COMMENT! The FCC link is a PDF with a generic link to the comment database.

      I swear they're purposefully making it hard to enter a comment. Direct link to filing: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filin... [fcc.gov]

      Anyone figure out how to enter a public comment?

      It'll probably be full of comments asking the FCC to drop the restrictions, all posted by bots being run by a lobbying/pr firm contracted out by Charter anyway.

    • It looks like the only way to post a comment is to through the Submit a Filing section: https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filin... [fcc.gov] I'm thinking about submitting one, but I'm not sure what I want to say yet.
  • ... in the process to implement.
  • On the condition that they they spin off all Time Warner's assets as a separate company including their original customer base where customers came through the acquisition. I'm also willing to take a 2x writedown in the total value of Time Warner's assets.

    Then you **********ers can impose whatever caps you want.

  • There's a confusion in the market about what to call a company that offers a variety of services. Charter Telecom is a telecommunication company that offers "last-mile" (industry term) connection to their network. Some Telcos use other Telcos to provide that "last-mile" (because they laid the wire in the ground 40 years ago). That's called at Type-II service. You (the end user) pay your provider (Charter?) who then pays the real last-mile provider. Internet service is not part of this.

    Charter also offe

  • so Charter said it doesn't "currently" plan to impose data caps or change its interconnection policy, but it wants the option to do so. Bet there is, just no start date.

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