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Transportation

BMW Wants To Sell Car Features On Demand (arstechnica.com) 152

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: BMW is planning to move some features of its new cars to a subscription model, something it announced on Wednesday during a briefing for the press on the company's digital plans. BMW says that owners can "benefit in advance from the opportunity to try out the products for a trial period of one month, after which they can book the respective service for one or three years." The company also says that it could allow the second owner of a BMW to activate features that the original purchaser declined.

In fact, BMW has already started implementing this idea in some markets, allowing software unlocking of features like adaptive cruise control or high-beam assist (in the United States, those options are usually standard equipment). Other features are more whimsical, like having a Hans Zimmer-designed sound package for your electric BMW or adaptive suspension for your M-car. Indeed, the company says that its forthcoming iNext will "expand the opportunities for personalization."

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BMW Wants To Sell Car Features On Demand

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  • Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by click2005 ( 921437 ) * on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:05PM (#60255972)

    My first thought was

    Car: Payment declined, disabling brakes.bin

    but then I noticed "The company also says that it could allow the second owner of a BMW to activate features that the original purchaser declined. "

    which to me says "We can charge a second owner to unlock features that the original purchaser already bought"

    • which to me says "We can charge a second owner to unlock features that the original purchaser already bought"

      But the original owner didn't buy any features at all. The original owner licensed features for one to three years. The second owner may or may not opt to extend the subscription.
      My question is how dumb do you have to be to get one of these second hand, never mind what idiot would be the first owner.

      • You donâ(TM)t buy an out of warranty BMW unless you really want to repair your own vehicle. That support cliff is a bit pricey.

        I just want to know how well they locked them out....

        • I just want to know how well they locked them out....

          So, are they going to try to DMCA you, if you play shade tree mechanic on your OWN car you bought and paid for??

          Are the BMW police going to monitor your car to see if you have changed something on it, software or mechanical?

          It's perfectly legal to change the chip on your car or reprogram it, so, what's to keep you from just altering the software to get these features turned on as long as you wish?

          I have to think, after seeing how the security has been

          • This is no different from Telsa, where even things like range are software controlled, the hardware is all there. I'll admit I was annoyed when Cisco went to this model for their network software stack, but now that I think more about it it just means the code is all already there for whoever manages to hack it. Not that I would condone such a thing.

            • But did you buy the car, or not? What is the long-tail of purchase, that you must also license what you already own? You have *title* to the car. It is yours. All of it, 100% of it, no part not owned by you.

              Yet you don't condone using all of the thing you own, just the part that you don't own, although you own the entire car. All of it.

              The problem is: you've let your car be connected to The Overlords who actually own your car. If you don't disconnect your car, its telemetry is likely broadcast to who knows?

          • Sure, they'll probably just void the warranty on the parts you modify.
          • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

            Was it IBM or Fujitsi who ran into this problem?

            IIRC the mainframe was delivered with ALL the memory, but used a jumper to disable half. Customer ordered memory upgrade, observed the tech removing the jumper, then sued because the machine they paid for, already had all the memory when delivered?

        • I love that people are afraid of used BMWs. They are ridiculously cheap because of that attitude. Albeit, you do have to either be able to wrench or know a good mechanic that won't charge you a premium for bringing in a Bimmer, but if either of those are true then used BMWs the best cars you can buy for the money. Sometimes you have to buy or fabricate some special tools, too.

          I do worry about the integration of these services, but that has always been my concern with Bimmers and the DIY community has always

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • You're responding to someone who buys BMWs at 100k miles, drives them to 300k, and then gets another 100k one.

              Unfortunately, like most people who buy a BMW for all the wrong reasons, your friends are shitty drivers and they treat their cars like shit. The fact that they want Teslas as replacements confirms that they're part of the "ooh, shiny" crowd and are probably not doing much real research when investing in a vehicle.

            • by Cederic ( 9623 )

              The best car I've ever owned was a BMW. Bought second hand, many years of low cost driving.

              Lovely car.

            • I have no idea what a BMW costs in the US (and the loss of value), but here, the cost of leasing a new one (for, say, 60k€) is about 540€/month (60k km for 36 months, no downpayment). Including maintenance. That amounts to 20k€ over 3 years. (all costs include 19% VAT)

              Now with my specific model, when I compare prices for 3-year-olds on used car platforms (list price about 60k€, 60k km, sold 2017), they really lost more than that even when you factor in a typical discount on the list pric

      • It would be OK for a lease, but yeah, getting one second had is going to be a stupid idea. I guess the resale value will drop.
      • My question is how dumb do you have to be to get one of these second hand

        That depends. Once it is out of warranty someone will undoubtedly find an easy way to enable all the "optional" features so you might be able to end up with a second-hand car with lots of high-end features for the price of a second-hand car with hardly any features.

    • Like this won't be trivial to hack. The Rigol oscilloscopes are a good example.

      • I doubt they care if people hack it. The people who will won't be the ones who buy them brand new. Lots of DIYers still love their "Genuine BMW" parts even though they are just VDO parts with "Genuine BMW" stamped on them.

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      My only thought was, 'FUCKING DLC for cars, ohh just fuck off'. If they want to sell me part of the car and they control what runs and what does not, well, they can just fuck right off. Simply would not buy a car under those conditions, I will not buy a car, the manufacturer can control at a whim, those psycho cunts can go fuck themselves.

    • by zazzel ( 98233 )

      My first thought was

      Car: Payment declined, disabling brakes.bin

      but then I noticed "The company also says that it could allow the second owner of a BMW to activate features that the original purchaser declined. "

      which to me says "We can charge a second owner to unlock features that the original purchaser already bought"

      Nope, as an owner, I can confirm that some of the packages (BMW Drive Recorder, High Beam Assist) are permanent, just like they would be if you bought them with the car. Some others have different expiration dates (BMW eDrive Services - about 50 months, Digital Key - 15 months ("trial", I assume)).

      I wonder if BMW can actually pull this through in markets other than Germany, where the majority of their cars are only sold after a first 3-year lease period and most customers simply don't care what happens afte

    • by 3247 ( 161794 )

      My first thought was

      Car: Payment declined, disabling brakes.bin

      That would never get type approval.

      A BMW is not an aircraft such as the 737MAX, for which you can just have your design documents rubber-stamped by the FAA.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Quarters ( 18322 )

      >> which to me says "We can charge a second owner to unlock features that the original purchaser already bought"

      Tesla is already 100% doing this. There are numerous stories on Tesla enthusiast forums and YouTube channels about used Teslas being sold advertised with feature X and the new owner discovering it's not enabled, calling Tesla, and being told that "The original owner bought that feature, not you. If you want it, pony up $$".

      It's probably where BMW got the idea.

  • sleazy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:09PM (#60255982)
    But let's be honest they're just copying Tesla and other companies all the way back to IBM that charge for something a device is already physically capable of.
    • I wish Volvo had just included auto-wiper hardware and anticipated I would want to pay for it later.

      It's not really sleazy it's sensible. I have a product I rent for $1,000 a day. Some people want to save money and rent the lower featured version from me and I advertise the lower featured version and then say it's unavailable and ask if it's ok if I upgrade them for free for only $500/day. They all have said yes.

      If everybody paid $500 I wouldn't be able to recoup the cost of the product. But at $1,000

      • It's not really sleazy it's sensible.

        No, it is just sleazy. BMW can clearly can afford to make and install the hardware for these features on every vehicle which means that every owner will be paying the manufacturing cost of that hardware. They are not going to discount the cost of the extra, unusable hardware when purchasing a basic vehicle.

        However, the company is then going to lock away certain parts of that hardware so that only those who pay them more will get the benefits of using what they have already purchased. This is nothing mor

      • Re:sleazy (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sjames ( 1099 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @10:10PM (#60256476) Homepage Journal

        It makes sense for rental, but it's sleazy for sales. It also shows that our economy is broken.

        If they can afford to include the device at time of manufacture and then not enable it, they are not being squeezed by sufficient healthy competition. Competition should be strong enough that they either enable the feature by default (to improve the value of the car) or don't include the capability at all (saving on the marginal cost of production).

        The whole thing reminds me of stores that installed pay toilets in the '70s. They stopped once they figured out that people saw that as a sign of a crappy store and tended to shop elsewhere once they saw it (not to mention showing their displeasure by peeing on the floor).

        • Re:sleazy (Score:4, Insightful)

          by hipp5 ( 1635263 ) on Friday July 03, 2020 @07:45AM (#60257582)

          or don't include the capability at all (saving on the marginal cost of production).

          But the math doesn't just come down to the marginal cost of production for that one widget. Assembly lines gain their efficiency from being able to do the same thing over and over again at high volume and speed. If you have to customize things, that adds cost (even if it saves on individual components).

          Microprocessor companies do it all the time. Sometimes it's cheaper to build one model of processor and then artificially hobble it to fill lower-tier market segments than it is to run multiple production lines.

          I get why it *feels* somewhat scummy, but from a strictly rational point-of-view it makes sense.

      • It's not really sleazy it's sensible.

        It's sleazy.

        It's like buying a house except you're not allowed to go in the basement, den, or kitchen unless you pay more to unlock those doors.

      • by DrXym ( 126579 )
        Oh yes it is sleazy. You've bought a car and they're crippling functionality in the car unless you pay them more money. It is a way to lower the list price and shake you down for cash afterwards. Not just shaking down the person who bought the car, but subsequent owners of the car since they can reset the software.

        Car manufacturers used to do this for map updates, onstar etc where there was a justification but now they're doing it to functions in the car.

        Secondly there is a cost to users of dragging aro

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Hopefully like Tesla it will be hackable.

      Once the manufacturer loses interest in supporting the car there is no reason not to hack it and enable all the features. People who bought salvage Teslas do it because Tesla isn't interested in supporting them anyway and tries to remotely nerf the car just to be dicks.

  • I don't get the joke.

    Is this supposed to be funny?

    • I don't get the joke.

      Is this supposed to be funny?

      No, this is why I ditched Photoshop in favour of Affinity Photo. AF is a has a one time payment model, PS bleeds you for multiple times the usurious price you used to pay before they went for the subscription model and bled you for even more money over a longer period of time. Seems to me the same basic principle is at work here, bleed the customer for even more money and hope they don't notice because it is done over a longer period of time.

    • by quenda ( 644621 )

      Yes, I had to double-check I was not reading The Onion.
      And even then, sometimes a real story was an Onion piece a few years ago.

      Are discount airlines charging for toilet use yet?

      • Are discount airlines charging for toilet use yet?

        At least one of them tried.

        Since that policy did not last for very long, I assume it did not work out well for them.

  • Ability to open trunk, Purchased.
    Ability to turn left, Purchased
    Ability to turn right, Purchased
    Ability to notify the police when you are in an accident, FREE.
    Ability to send the police your GPS locaiton and speed history for the past year, FREE.

  • NO. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:20PM (#60256012) Homepage
    Stop. On the other hand, maybe they can start selling turn signals to customers, that appears to be missing.
    • Re:NO. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Arethan ( 223197 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:34PM (#60256050) Journal

      Nah. Turn signal is definitely there and working. I just ran out to the garage and checked mine to be sure... GIVEN I NEVER FUCKING USE IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

    • BMW's have turn signals, - but with one of the worst user interfaces known to man. push a little to make it blink a few times. Push a little more to make it latch blinking. Push the other way to unlatch - unless you push to hard then it latches the other way. The difference between push-a-little and push-a-lot is pretty small.

      I suspect most BMW drivers have simply given up on every getting them to do what thy want.

  • by aberglas ( 991072 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:21PM (#60256018)

    You have not purchased the extended fuel tank option so the car must stop now you have gone 100km. Would you like to make a one off extended range purchase or have us automatically call for a tow truck? Note that the advanced safety system will not allow you to fill the car with other than DRM approved petrol stations so forget about the Jerry can.

    • You joke, but BMW electronically limited the fuel tank capacity of the gas-powered range extender in the American model of the i3. If it had a longer gas-powered range than electric, it wouldn't have qualified for zero-emission vehicle tax credits. As a result there's a gallon or two of gas in the tank that you can never use.
  • I will never again own a BMW till they get rid of those plastic parts.

    I am open to being educated as to how a plastic part can be better than a metallic one in places where friction/tension is expected.

    Sorry BMW, I'll take a hike.

    • There are many industrial plastics that are lower wearing than steel.
      UHMW being the most common, just don't use it in a high temperature environment.

    • BMW prioritizes shedding weight, which is why they have the magnesium alloy blocks. They also do a lot of research into materials, including those plastics. Which parts are you complaining about? My cam cover is plastic, but that's pretty standard these days. Aside from some sensors I can't think of any plastic parts inside the engine.

    • by zazzel ( 98233 )

      I must assume that you are a troll. I DO read car forums (especially BMW, since I drive one) quite often, and there's definitely not a widespread problem with plastic parts. If anything, current BMWs are mostly troubled with software stability and functionality issues (mine has infrequent restarts of the central display with navigation, and some online functionality is not working. Waiting for the next OTA update to fix this, since they admitted this as a problem they were working on...)

      My last one needed a

  • by Arethan ( 223197 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:32PM (#60256042) Journal

    Vote with your wallet, folks.
    It is well within their rights to make unpopular product decisions.
    Show them it's a bad idea by just not buying them.
    It's sunk cost for them once they put hardware features onto a vehicle, regardless if the that the owner decides to pay for it or not.

    My choice will be a non-BMW vehicle. Maybe you still want a BMW and instead just don't want to pay to the license fees. Both ways send a pretty strong message.

    • We should probably wait to hear the details before making such decisions. The announcement was pretty vague and the journalists are making a bunch of wild guesses that drive clicks.

    • by Baki ( 72515 )

      Agree, same situation. the add on features are crappy and too expensive, I hate the feeling of paying for something that is already that and has already been produced, and I hate subscriptions too (longer term financial commitments). I hope strongly such models will either fail in the market, or the market economy is replaced by something better.

    • Yeah, I am still looking for BMWs but they have to be atleast 2018 or older. Nothing newer will ever be considered, in a few years, I wouldn't even consider the brand as nothing new from them is acceptable.

    • It is well within their rights to make unpopular product decisions.

      What makes you think this is unpopular? They are following the Telsa model, which ironically means they are copying one of the more popular cars current on the market.

      Show them it's a bad idea by just not buying them.

      Except it's not a bad idea. Standardisation drives down cost. It's an idea that has been tried and true in many fields, not the least of which being the automotive field. I mean right in front of me is an oscilloscope with 100% identical internals to one with better specs. I've been thinking of performing the firmware hack that unlocks the 200

  • by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:34PM (#60256046)

    Some automotive computer systems can't even reliably stop hackers from remotely taking significant control over key items like braking. How long do these clowns think it will take for hackers with physical access to the vehicle to bypass their silly restrictions?

    As far as I'm concerned people who pay for cars they don't really own are even more unwise than those who buy 'smart' home entertainment devices and actually allow them to connect to the internet. I'll drive a rusted hulk before I'll own a car whose ultimate control is in the hands of the dealer, the manufacturer, law enforcement, or anyone to whom I don't hand the keys or the fob.

    This would be a 'get off my lawn' moment if it weren't for the sinister implications and outright dangers of this kind of scheme. You'd think Windows 10 would have taught people a lesson, but apparently not.

  • This could explain why you never see a BMW use their indicators...
  • Could I pay them (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Berkyjay ( 1225604 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @07:50PM (#60256086)

    To remove the computers from the car?

  • This service would be ridiculous for purchasers, but for some advanced hooks between a rental car company, or ride-share service like Uber / Lyft, maybe it makes sense.

    Or maybe it lets BMW save significantly on cost scale, by standardizing parts across models, so now every model includes AWD, air conditioning, satellite radio, etc. That lets BMW build or order parts in greater volume, driving its build costs down, and potentially unlocking future revenue from the same vehicle.

    • AWD costs money. AC is already standard. This has to be features that it doesn't cost anything substantial to add to the vehicle, some of which may even be subsidized by other companies. The most obvious examples are mapping features, carplay, android auto... looking beyond the most trivial potential options there are also things like advanced driving modes like reducing traction control or yaw control. And of course, hotspot services.

  • It looks like the high end car market is starting to adopt the high end hotel business model. I can stay at a moderately priced $150/night hotel, and it comes with a mediocre breakfast, wi-fi, and, usually, a parking spot, or subsidized parking if in a downtown area. High end hotels charge you for *everything* Internet is a charge. Breakfast is a charge. I heard one hotel chain is experimenting with charging for clean towels. I stayed in a nice hotel in the suburbs of Chicago once and they charged me for pa

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @08:00PM (#60256104)
    If you lease cars, who cares who gets what as long as your payment stays the same. If you buy cars like me, over my dead body. I own the hardware, the entirety of it, and won't even purchase any connected car, less one with a rent-seeking subscription.

    This will further tank the value of used BMW, not that it is great now due to catastrophic lack of reliability out of warranty.
    • Just replace the components. Replacing things like the ECU, installing new tuning chips, etc has been commonplace for a long time. If all the hardware is there then just switch out the controller for a hacked replacement and you get all the highend features, people buying second-hand, out-of-warranty vehicles are going to love this!
    • Then you would not want to buy a Tesla

      • by sinij ( 911942 )
        Yes, I researched getting one and then air gaping it by removing transmitters, but then it won't work with Tesla charging stations. So no Tesla for me.
  • ... connecting your car to the Internet. That seems like an extremely bad idea.
    • ... connecting your car to the Internet. That seems like an extremely bad idea.

      With the outstanding security record that consumer electronics are known for, I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong.

  • Extra charge to remove the grotesque grill. If you dont pay the monthly dues, they will come and install the ugg butly grill back on.
  • The button you have pushed brakes is not paid for you want to buy now?

    • Anything that gets checked during safety tests and is part of a car's standard function, will have to be always-on. Otherwise it would never be allowed on the road.

  • Between the Chinese and now Germans, we are seeing that LICE makers are starting to copy Tesla.
    It is a good thing that Tesla will not be making batteries in China and now, Germany.
    No sense having their technology stolen.
  • by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @10:36PM (#60256534) Homepage
    So BMW went ahead and copied the main thing I don't like about my Tesla? It is not going to help their sales case for people like me.
  • by greylion3 ( 555507 ) on Thursday July 02, 2020 @10:42PM (#60256544)

    Can't imagine ever buying a BMW after this.

    Though I suppose someone might figure out how to jailbreak the software, and make all features available, perhaps except online ones, since BMW could undoubtedly push a software update to reverse it.

    Anyway, my next car will be an electric plug-in hybrid, so BMW's are not exactly that interesting in that regard.

    • Can't imagine ever buying a BMW after this.

      Yeah you should stick with companies like Tesla who don't do this bullshit. ... Oh wait.

      I hope you also don't ever buy any lab equipment because it is pretty much universally made under this model.

    • perhaps except online ones, since BMW could undoubtedly push a software update to reverse it.

      If you're ever in that position the very FIRST thing you do is disable the cellular connection so they can't dick with it remotely. My phone needs a cell connection to perform its primary function. My car needs a cell connection like it needs sugar in the gas tank.

  • Fuck you, BMW.

    I'd never buy a BMW (I like to drive cars, not look at them being fixed on a lift) but this kind of dick move has guaranteed that I'll trash-talk BMW every chance I get from now on. (And Tesla too, for that matter.)

  • You would like this car? May I interest you in a steering wheel subscription? The air bag option is only $29.99/mo for a limited time only!
  • DON'T BUY BMW.

    Seriously, it's super simple. If we don't want them to expand this, make the idea a marketing failure. Between social media rage and a growing balance sheet, I think we all know which source of information they will take seriously.

    Stop fucking buying BMW. Some times it's not about your epeen. My current and previous cars have been BMWs and while they're certainly nice cars, neither before nor after would i have chosen them (they're paid by my company) as they're not nice enough to be worth

  • There's something very irritating (to me anyway) about a car (or any other mechanism for that matter) that has desirable features all built in ... but I can't use them because I didn't pay to have the right switch turned on :-(

  • by ledow ( 319597 )

    Honestly, the day that my car decides to switch off a feature that it perfectly well has fitted to it and isn't just a software activation, I find a new car or just start making other people take me (e.g. Uber or whatever).

    It's not like it's purely software (but even that grates when you know that Windows Home/Pro are only a few DLLs different), it's got the sensors and actuators to make those things happen already.

    I bought what will probably be my last petrol car a couple of years ago - it should last me p

  • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Friday July 03, 2020 @11:57AM (#60258332) Homepage Journal

    instead of exchanging money for goods and services according to a market price, we now pay for permission to unlock products.

    If you think you can still operate your business how you see fit, joke is on you, if you aren't making obscene amounts of money you'll never see any capital investment. Instead of a 20% ROI on an investment, now we expect at least a 1000% ROI. You'll be left in the dust once each industry shifts to this model.

    In the end it's a system designed to extract money out of our pockets. Producing something useful is only an accidental side effect that eventually gets in the way of profit.

Isn't it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists? -- Kelvin Throop III

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