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China Digital Network The Internet

China's Great Firewall Descends On Hong Kong Internet Users 161

Posted by BeauHD from the lost-freedoms dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: At midnight on Tuesday, the Great Firewall of China, the vast apparatus that limits the country's internet, appeared to descend on Hong Kong. Unveiling expanded police powers as part of a contentious new national security law, the Hong Kong government enabled police to censor online speech and force internet service providers to hand over user information and shut down platforms. Many residents, already anxious since the law took effect last week, rushed to erase their digital footprint of any signs of dissent or support for the last year of protests. Charles Mok, a pro-democracy lawmaker who represents the technology sector, tweeted: "We are already behind the de facto firewall."

"The law seems to be building up the Great Firewall locally in Hong Kong. Personal freedom on the internet will be eliminated," said Charles Low, the chairman of the Hong Kong chapter of the Internet Society. "If you say something wrong they can request the service provider to give your IP address or mobile number so they can grab you." Experts point out that China's Great Firewall -- which allows the government to inspect data as well as block IP addresses and domain names -- could not be immediately replicated in Hong Kong, home to several private internet service providers and internet exchanges. "It will take at least a few years to build up the wall," said Low, adding that what is more likely is a partial blackout, cutting off access to certain sites such as LIHKG or Telegram. "People are indeed kind of panicked and trying to install VPNs and have no idea what it can and cannot help," said Low, noting that volunteers have been holding workshops to teach residents how to use such tools and how to better protect themselves. "I have faith in Hong Kong people. They will not forget about the freedom we once had." "[T]he measures could go even further than in mainland China," adds The Guardian. "The law covers not only permanent residents and foreigners within Hong Kong, but anyone seen as violating the law, regardless of where they are in the world. The security law may also add to the Balkanisation of the internet, with countries having their own fenced-off versions, and major international tech companies will be under pressure not to contribute to that."
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China's Great Firewall Descends On Hong Kong Internet Users More

China's Great Firewall Descends On Hong Kong Internet Users

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  • Around the world? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:12PM (#60277370)

    "The law covers not only permanent residents and foreigners within Hong Kong, but anyone seen as violating the law, regardless of where they are in the world"

    Guess I shouldn't piss the Chinese government off by having pictures of Winnie the Pooh on my site then... (hint hint)

  • a country that doesn't have free speech (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:13PM (#60277378) Journal
    It's annoying when anti-vaxxers and C# programmers start talking, but the alternative (someone getting to decide what to censor) is far worse.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:24PM (#60277402)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • There it is unlikely to be the PLA, and instead one of Xi's political rivals from within the communist party.

    • Re:Remember Ceaucescu. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:55PM (#60277472)
      There are armies that get led around by their leaders and leaders who get led around by their armies. I have a hard time believing that President Xi has been ordering the recent Chinese military excursions that have been leading to border tensions with several of their neighbors.

      Not all countries that are effectively run by the military are necessarily bad, but the Chinese military seem a bit more eager and cavalier than others that are just content to control their own country. This is starting to feel a little bit like the Japanese military slowly gaining ultimate power over their country which is what in large lead to their actions in WWII. China has been using a lot more soft power, but ascendant super powers always go through a weird nationalistic phase.

      The PLA will choose the PLA over the CCP or the citizens of China if (or when) it comes down to it. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess, but history suggests that good decisions won't be made.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Not all countries that are effectively run by the military are necessarily bad, but the Chinese military seem a bit more eager and cavalier than others that are just content to control their own country. This is starting to feel a little bit like the Japanese military slowly gaining ultimate power over their country which is what in large lead to their actions in WWII. China has been using a lot more soft power, but ascendant super powers always go through a weird nationalistic phase.

        That's bollocks; the PLA is pretty tiny in comparison to China's size, and has been kept at bay by chickenshit Taiwan.

        Also one reason why China hangs on Tibet is it needs the territory both as a watershed (both the Huang he & the Yangze he have their sources in the Himalayan plateau) and as a buffer territory against Vietnam whose military is pretty far from being chickenshit, as it could create serious nightmares for China; after all, it has inflicted the Americans a salty defeat 45 years ago.

    • I used to think the same way, but these days, after seeing the sheer volume of stupid spewing out of so many mentalities, it sure seems like the mentality of the general population is as malleable as water. Mix that with how polarized people are these days, it seems like an inevitability that those with the guns will feel fine with shooting all of the "people that are causing all of the problems in the world", as that's how they'll see it.

      There is no harmony among humans today. Just lots of hypocritical-f

      • Yeah, I think I read the other day, "if you're immune to coronavirus, you're immune to nuclear weapons."

        • Yeah, I think I read the other day, "if you're immune to coronavirus, you're immune to nuclear weapons."

          That sounds a lot like, "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball." I'm not saying they were written by the same person, but the similarity is striking.*

          * I'm just trying to start a new conspiracy theory, because I think the general population is gullible enough to help spread it. :)

    • I'm hoping you're not wrong. However it seems like the Chinese government has spent a considerable amount of time and effort learning how to program it's people into good obedient little robots, and I'm sure anyone in their military gets a double or triple dose of that for the very reasons you state.
      I would like to see in my lifetime the Chinese citizenry rise up and erase the Chinese government and start over, though. It would be messy but it would be productive in the long run.
      The last thing this Earth

      • I'm hoping you're not wrong. However it seems like the Chinese government has spent a considerable amount of time and effort learning how to program it's people into good obedient little robots, and I'm sure anyone in their military gets a double or triple dose of that for the very reasons you state.

        Thanks to it’s superior agricultural technology, China has been able to feed a lot more people than any other country, and this has been so for 3000 years. So, when you have been the most populous country for so long, you get to learn to live when huge number of people are together; this is what is called “harmony”.

        This has nothing with the Communist Party; 2000 years ago, the Qin emperor was already seeking harmony, and so have every subsequent ruler.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plasm4 ( 533422 )
      I think that day is quite a long way out. Living standards in China have been improving dramatically for the last 30 years. Also in my opinion China has quite a nationalistic society and they're definitely playing the long game in order to take the stage so to speak. Combine that with the behavioural controls the government has created and I think things would have to get pretty darn bad internally in order for any kind of revolt to be possible. In Romania for example it took over a decade of decreasing li

    • The day is coming soon when every soldier in the People's Liberation Army will have to decide whether his duty is to the people or the dictator.

      You'd be right except that they aren't attacking their people. They are attacking the people of Hong Kong with an army made up of people from the mainland. Just because some people think they all look alike doesn't mean they all think alike. Xi has a lot of support from his people (not just the people in his army).

    • People have been saying the CCP will be brought down every year of its existence.

      A lot of people thought someone somewhere would magically rise up during the 2008 olympics to overthrow the government.

      Yours is a Western fantasy, thinking guns will solve the problem. No one in China realistically wants the CCP to be brought down because it cannot happen without massive loss of life, during, but especially after.

      How is your Arab spring coming along? Still free yet? Let me know where any of your Wester
      • Based on how it worked out in Afghanistan, Iran and USSR there is no wonder Chinese don't actually want to do that at this time.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hasaf ( 3744357 )
      Not at all likely. I taught at a PLAF base in 2010. Historically, the PLF is the branch with the least support for the party. That said, I had no sense of support for any deviant behaviour.

    • Nikolai fucked up by ordering the Romanian army to attack the Romanian people, and they pretty much said "Nah, fuck you, it's time for you to die, motherfucker".

      The day is coming soon when every soldier in the People's Liberation Army will have to decide whether his duty is to the people or the dictator. I only hope that when the CCP is brought down, it happens with as little loss of innocent lives as possible. Xi, on the other hand, deserves the most painful execution that can possibly be devised.

      -jcr

      Hollywood, the NBA, and Blizzard: "We do not agree with what you say, but we will defend to the death our right to remain silent."

      • If this were twitter, I suppose you'd have been banned, or at least tagged with a warning, for talking violence.

        "I know Bane took over this football stadium and little island, but they're now practicing self-determination. HOW DARE YOU CALL FOR PEOPLE THERE TO VIOLENTLY RESIST!?!"

    • The day is coming soon when every soldier in the People's Liberation Army will have to decide whether his duty is to the people or the dictator.

      Having lived in China, not in a Westernized ghetto, but within families in tiny cities (between 2 and 5 million people) or countryside villages where I was the only white dude in town, the Chinese are extremely happy with their government which, over the last 30 years, gave them considerably more wealth and improved their lives in a way life in the US improved between 1900 and 2000, but only in 30 years.

      The people will not support any kind of counter revolution that threatens that march of progress and rep

  • When the Brits gave up control of Hong Kong, China needed them for their business & money sense. Now that most of the world, sadly (but hopefully that changes) get most of its products from China, and China seems to own a ton of debt of the world, they have "little use" so to speak, for Hong Kong. Hince the crack down. China, to continue keeping it's knee on its people's necks, has to clamp down on outside information, getting into China, and, information about what is going on in China, to get out. I

  • I am in China right now (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tmmagee ( 1475877 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:26PM (#60277408)
    And can acknowledge that the internet is broken. You really have to experience the internet in China to realize how broken it is. The government has the ability at any time to just shut down a website, which in our modern era feels a little like they can take apps off of your computer. It is unbelievably frustrating.

    And when friends want to share things these days, they are all on youtube, instagram, etc... all things that are blocked in China. And I can't even check my gmail! I can download my gmail using a third party client (which I set up before I came to China), but I can't send messages and I can't download attachments.

    And all sites that use google analytics (which is almost all sites in the U.S.) load incredibly slowly because google analytics is blocked in China.

    Yes a VPN solves these problems, but the government can block VPNs anytime they feel like it as well. I was once big on internet apps, but my experience in China has reminded me of the importance of the desktop and local apps. Anything on the internet can be taken away from you at the whim of the government at any time.

    • When I was there we surfed the net like this: open browser, enter url, confirm it is trying to make connection, put phone face up on table, continue food and conversation. Check phone every few minutes to see if it loaded, is still trying or timed out completely.

      Good times!

      • My last experience was the internet was just fine and fast in China, the problem was only blocked sites. Fortunately on my laptop I had a corporate VPN which wasn't blocked.

        • I had a very similar experience in China but it was many years ago. When I was there, nothing was blocked for foreigners. I went to an Internet Cafe and showed my passport and was able to get pretty much unfettered access. The hotel brought in CNN but was only available in rooms where the registered guest was a foreigner. There really were two standards. I wonder if something has changed or if you (and the parent poster) somehow accidentally got the Chinese version. And yes, when I was there, I worked
        • Me, whenever I hit something blocked, I just remoted into my machine at home, which wasn’t a problem with the blazingly fast internet over there.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sebby ( 238625 )

      What sent you there? Do you want to remain?

      Given it’s been an authoritarian regime for so long, I have no desire to even contemplate going there.

      • Re:I am in China right now (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @09:52PM (#60277624) Journal
        The China of today is RADICALLY different than that of 2010. Deng, Jiang, Hu - all moved China towards more permissiveness, more openness, even to the point of local elections that allowed even non-members of the CCP to vote! But then Xi came into power in 2015 - and that all changed, immediately.
      • I teach English and I don't use computers nearly as much anymore, so the internet censorship doesn't affect me much. Not being able to use reddit, facebook, etc. can even be seen as a good thing since now I practice guitar and study Chinese a lot more.

        Chinese people are wonderful, and the culture and language (if you are a geek like me) is complete fascinating. The government doesn't affect my daily life, and I do not confuse the Chinese people with the government. Opinions are a lot more diverse here th

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by necro81 ( 917438 )

          I teach English and I don't use computers nearly as much anymore, so the internet censorship doesn't affect me much. Not being able to use reddit, facebook, etc. can even be seen as a good thing since now I practice guitar and study Chinese a lot more.

          But Slashdot isn't blocked in China? Damn, we need to up our game!

    • The only way to work in China is to remote into a computer outside of China, and then use that for whatever you want. When in China, I log into my US home server, and then browse as I want. So far, it's worked perfectly to get around the Great Firewall.
    • Near as I can tell from what I've read about it, if you're a Chinese citizen they have total control over any computer you have, can do whatever they please with it, and you have no say in the matter.

  • This is all on our sufferance (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rbrander ( 73222 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:45PM (#60277442) Homepage

    China is run by a small number of corrupt rich people. Their fortunes are entirely dependent on foreign trade. We could impoverish them any time we want, force them to any terms, just with economic pressures. These would, of course, impoverish us as well -- or at least our own rich, corrupt people; and certainly the rest of us would endure years of higher prices for most stuff, before we'd moved manufacturing to other nations like India.

    So Hong Kong is, alas, screwed. We don't care about their freedom THAT much.

    So China will continue to bully with impunity.

  • All gone now. (Score:5, Informative)

    by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:46PM (#60277444)
    Bye bye Hong Kong. Send up smoke signals when you can from your "reeducation" camp.

  • Where's the UK? (Score:3)

    by msauve ( 701917 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:53PM (#60277460)
    That's a clear violation of the Hong Kong agreement (Sino-British Joint Declaration) which the PRC agreed to and accepted. Fraud negates that. Time for the UK to take Hong Kong back, which I'm sure the vast majority of HKers would be more than happy with.

    The current social and economic systems in Hong Kong will remain unchanged, and so will the life-style. Rights and freedoms, including those of the person, of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of travel, of movement, of correspondence, of strike, of choice of occupation, of academic research and of religious belief will be ensured by law in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

    - Sino-British Joint Declaration

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @09:11PM (#60277516)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by msauve ( 701917 )
        Well, it's now or never. Unless the UK is going back to Never Chainberlin's appeasement policy.

    • The UK currently has no operational aircraft carriers (we have one in advanced stages of sea trials and due to enter service in September 2020, but with a reduced carrier wing consisting of a joint deployment of 15 RAF and USMC F-35Bs). We have no long range aircraft capable of carrying out strikes against Chinese targets from any usable bases in the region. We have some nuclear submarines with cruise missile capabilities.

      So, unless you want to make this a proxy US-China war, theres fuck all the UK can do

      • The biggest club the UK has is the financial system. The US and the UK could effectively shut off all financial access to Hong Kong. That would get some attention RIGHT QUICK.

        • And stand up for the beliefs they spout? Why would they do that?

          Hong Kong is toast because the people of Hong Kong are weak and will not fight for their liberty.

          There is only one substance that wins that stuff... blood. If you are not prepared to die for what you believe in then don't expect anyone to take you plea for anything, especially liberty or democracy, seriously.

          You either demand it, or you don't get it!

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by msauve ( 701917 )
            "There is only one substance that wins that stuff... blood. If you are not prepared to die for what you believe in..."

            OK. Apart from the US (and even that is very marginal - rifles and pistols against rockets, grenades, and airpower?), where are citizens allowed to have weapons able fight against a government army? Certainly not in Hong Kong. Firecrackers v. Nukes.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

              OK. Apart from the US (and even that is very marginal - rifles and pistols against rockets, grenades, and airpower?), where are citizens allowed to have weapons able fight against a government army? Certainly not in Hong Kong. Firecrackers v. Nukes.

              Treating that as a straight question, "you take them from the people that have them." Airpower won't happen, but small arms, artillery, armor? That's doable, if you're willing to pay the price in lives to acquire them.

              Note: I am not an internet commando. I am not advocating anyone do anything, or chest beating and say "this is what I'd do." But if any population were pushed too far (or hell, even a bunch of opportunists) they could absolutely obtain what was needed by stealing it from the government.

          • Or do what the UK is rightfully encouraging - just leave HK. When the movers-and-shakers of HK move to the UK, Singapore, and other places, they will take their influence, connections, and knowledge with them and that will significantly drain the power and prestige of HK. It'll go back to a backwater fishing village.

            Living with a Chinese family, I can tell you that things are ALWAYS about economics. Familial, local, or national. Move that financial heart of Asia from HK to Singapore or - even more insult

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by sfcat ( 872532 )

              Or do what the UK is rightfully encouraging - just leave HK. When the movers-and-shakers of HK move to the UK, Singapore, and other places, they will take their influence, connections, and knowledge with them and that will significantly drain the power and prestige of HK. It'll go back to a backwater fishing village.

              Living with a Chinese family, I can tell you that things are ALWAYS about economics. Familial, local, or national. Move that financial heart of Asia from HK to Singapore or - even more insulting - to Taipei, and you'll significantly attack the CCP without a shot fired. The loss of face of the CCP with the average Chinese citizen would be permanent and significant.

              Mod parent up

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by vyvepe ( 809573 )

          UK's financial system is not big enough club. UK will not use it anyway since it would mean loses for UK companies as well. And it would mean weakening the "club" for possible future actions. Hon Kong's freedom is not worth that much to UK.

          UK's only hope would be to talk other major economies to joint their cause. But that is unlikely to happen now when COVID-19 and its economic fallout is the focus. China timed their actions regarding Hong Kong well.

        • The biggest club the UK has is the financial system. The US and the UK could effectively shut off all financial access to Hong Kong. That would get some attention RIGHT QUICK.

          Won’t happen because Wall Marde is too dependent on cheap Chinese-made crap for their profits. And because a lot of Wall Street types definitely don’t give a rats’ ass about human rights either.

      • Lob a few nukes. Never anything wrong with that. I suggest a SLBM strike at their missiles and early warning sites. Then flash to London with a crowd of people chanting "The UK! The UK!" [/sarcasm]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sfcat ( 872532 )

          Lob a few nukes. Never anything wrong with that. I suggest a SLBM strike at their missiles and early warning sites. Then flash to London with a crowd of people chanting "The UK! The UK!" [/sarcasm]

          The CCP has Hydrogen bombs and ICBMs. That's a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. Don't you Brits know how to play nuclear poker?

    • The UK has offered 3 million HK residents a path to UK citizenship. So, that's an escape hatch for people who want to leave. Those who stay are fucked.

    • And what do you propose the UK actually do about it?

      Invade Hong Kong? That would mean a full-on military conflict with China, which would certainly drag the rest of NATO in to support the UK, and Russia to support China. That's the nuclear annihilation route. No-one wins that war. The UK isn't dumb enough to start a chain of events that ends with the few survivors huddled in bunkers waiting for the worst of the radiation to pass.

      Economic pressure? Works to some extent - and if this were the UK verses some s

    • The UK is busy being a country of the world by giving it's middle finger to every trading partner it ever had. They are so deep in their own crisis, one which makes a mockery of the "United" part of the UK that they have no real capacity to do anything right now, and there are plenty of arguments to say that even if they weren't in their own crisis they'd not have the capacity.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vyvepe ( 809573 )
      Agreements are not worth the paper they are written on when there is no power to enforce them. China is strong enough player to ignore uncomfortable agreements. Especially when compared to UK!

  • Hong Kong is dead (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Way Smarter Than You ( 6157664 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @08:53PM (#60277462)

    It's over.

    Anyone there who can get out should leave NOW, especially if they were involved in any way with protests or ever even hinted at not being pro-mainland.

    Mass organ donations are coming soon.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shanen ( 462549 )

      I think you're going too far with "organ donations", but I am predicting that mass arrests are coming this year to a Hong Kong far from you. Last number I heard was only 370 arrests, but I predict it will go into the tens of thousands. I think Xi has already made his list and checked it twice, but the exact timing of rounding up the naughty is still contingent.

      One contingency is the accounting deadline. I am pretty sure Xi will start the mass arrests this year. That way he can consolidate the economic losse

  • The law covers not only permanent residents and foreigners within Hong Kong, but anyone seen as violating the law, regardless of where they are in the world.

    If I do something from TEXAS (like say something anti-china) that is illegal in china, what will happen? Will the US GOV send me to be imprisoned?

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @09:35PM (#60277570)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • The US has no extradition treaty with China, so obviously not. But if you want to visit China or do business there, they could theoretically apply such an interpretation of their laws once you step on Chinese soil. That's not unique to China, of course. All sovereign nations operate in such a manner. But with a thin-skinned dictatorship, it's trivially easy to break their laws. Like, just criticize the Chinese government or party a bit too vigorously.

      In reality, they're probably not about to start impr

    • Nope, but if you had friends of family who lived in HK or China - the CCP might just take their frustration out on them, instead of you. Proxy charges for crimes are rather often used in China.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • There are a lot of things that the people in an occupied country can do to make themselves ungovernable. Routine sabotage of government resources, for a start.

      What a great idea. Imagine the proposed thinking, Let's sabotage my employment, career, the well being of my family, and the community I am living it, but this will sure teach commies a lesson!

  • You boycotted facebook over picky little things, maybe show you actually have a backbone and boycott anything to do with China - land of the censorship.

    I am waiting CEOs, if you continue to do business with them, then I will boycott you.
  • Run, assimilate, or suffer. Problem for most are stuck. HK standards of living will decline if they repel Mainland. Not much other countries can do to help the HK citizens now except asylum.
    • The real problem is that the HK tycoons and the HK government control the real estate market in HK, making the average people lives miserable as most of them can't even afford a dinky apartment. That's the real issue but the average HKer are instead mostly brainwashed by the media to realize that's one of their root cause of the suffering. So the standard of living already for most of the low/middle class already sucks (despite whatever "standard" you see in some fancy report), it remains to be seen wheth

      • So the standard of living already for most of the low/middle class already sucks (despite whatever "standard" you see in some fancy report), it remains to be seen whether China can tackle the issue of HK real estate.

        Ask the Uyghurs what China knows about forced relocation. China can solve HK's population density problem in an afternoon. They probably don't care though.

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