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Businesses The Almighty Buck Technology

Bay Area Tech Workers Consider Moving Amid Layoff Fears (axios.com) 141

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
More than half of tech workers in the Bay Area are concerned about being laid off or furloughed in the next six months, or their salaries hitting a plateau or dropping, according to a new report from Hired. From a news article: The tech industry has generally fared better than other sectors in the pandemic downturn, offering more chances to work from home and fewer layoffs. However, there are concerns that companies won't be willing to pay Bay Area salaries if remote workers decide to relocate to less expensive areas. [...] However, if allowed to work from home permanently, many said they would consider moving to a less expensive location, including 42% of those in the Bay Area and 40% of those in New York, compared to just a third of those in the U.K. Further reading: Behind Tech Layoffs Lay Systemic Cash Flow Negative Companies.
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Bay Area Tech Workers Consider Moving Amid Layoff Fears More

Bay Area Tech Workers Consider Moving Amid Layoff Fears

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  • Wow big whoop! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Fucking move then. How is this news?

    • Moving is not easy, unless you are a single, frugal person.

      • smelly friscochimps need to stay there (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        keep your sidewalk-shittin' friscochimpasses there. do not infect the rest of the world by leaving.

      • Moving always sucks. But you can always simply ask one question: What's more expensive, moving to a low cost area, or continuing to live in an expensive one? This really is not a hard choice. Even if you don't have a lot of money and you have a lot of stuff, the first answer is almost guaranteed to be the correct one.

        Not being single is even easier than single as you almost certainly have less stuff to move per person that is actually moving. No matter what, you don't have to pay somebody to help you move.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by vlad30 ( 44644 )

          Not being single is even easier than single as you almost certainly have less stuff to move per person that is actually moving. No matter what, you don't have to pay somebody to help you move.

          Someone doesn't have Kids once you have those the amount to move per person increases and the items are usually bigger and more valuable

          • Especially if your kids take keyboard, guitar and drums.

            • Ha, I have an actual piano.

              • We were offered one for free, and despite my best attempt I lost the battle and we ended up with it. Then my wife found out why they wanted to give it to us for free; the thing weighed 500 lbs and you have to pay anyone at least $200 to touch it.

                • There's nothing quite like it, though. Digital pianos are pretty good, but you need to get a very expensive one to emulate sympathetic resonance.

                  • You are definitely not talking about the piano we got for free.
                  • Oh and one of my kids actually achieves sympathetic resonance on a cheap digital keyboard. The one song she plays that brings it out is beautiful; I only know what you mean by it because while I thought it just sounded nice the instructor explained to me what was happening.

                    My kids got bored of keyboard though, now they both play electic guitar.

        • Moving always sucks. But you can always simply ask one question: What's more expensive, moving to a low cost area, or continuing to live in an expensive one? This really is not a hard choice. Even if you don't have a lot of money and you have a lot of stuff, the first answer is almost guaranteed to be the correct one.

          Not being single is even easier than single as you almost certainly have less stuff to move per person that is actually moving. No matter what, you don't have to pay somebody to help you move. Go get a u-haul, and pick up your own shit. Unless you live in a mansion, there's no reason a move should take more than a week if you do it all yourself. I moved between two 1200sqft apartments (two bedrooms) in 3 days, and I think I spent maybe $150. Most of that time was spent sorting through shit that I hadn't used in a long time and throwing it away.

          If you're a lazy bum and you really think picking up your own shit is too damn hard, go sell it all on craigslist, offerup, etc, and buy new shit after you've moved, will probably cost you less, plus you get new shit. I personally threw away my beds and bought those $200 king sized Zinus beds on amazon, and they're way nicer than the pricier ikea beds I had before.

          OK, so you have an efficient lifestyle. You're either not married, gay, or chose one of the 1% of women that would put with someone like you. Most women like to buy stuff that has little practical value. They want furniture beyond the things you use daily. We rarely eat on it, but my wife demands a dining room table...and it does have to be fancy. She owns 100 photo frames or similar decorations, including a bunch that are sitting in a closet because she got too busy to return them or hang them up. I

        • How many kids do you have? How difficult was it for them to say goodbye to all their friends and start at a new school when you moved? Did you have much trouble selecting that new school - Was it public or private? Was your home choice in the new location affected by what schools were nearby?

          How did your spouse do with the move? Was their employer OK with it, or did they have to quit and find a new job? How hard was that.

          Are you a visible minority? Did you feel any cultural connections to were you

          • He didn't.
            From what he wrote, he is (or was, at the time) fitting under my "unless" category: Single and frugal.

        • Not being single is even easier than single as you almost certainly have less stuff to move per person that is actually moving.

          Ohhh, I'd love to see the reasoning leading to that conclusion.

  • Not surprising (Score:5, Informative)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:36PM (#60320317)
    Having lived in both areas, if you can make the same salary and live elsewhere your standard of living goes way up. You lose some of the advantages of the area, such as being a coast sider in the Bay Area; but you can get a decent quality of life in many areas where your salary affords you a lifestyle you can't get in either area. This is not a new phenomena, I've had classmates who left NYC for other areas, even if only to become bridge and tunnel types, simply because of lifestyle issues. Firefighters in NYC could live in lower cost areas and commute in for shifts as well. I suspect high cost areas whit a significant population of professionals who can work remotely for most, if not all, of the time will see an exodus. A benefit is people who do not have that luxury and are getting priced out may see costs come down.

    • Re:Not surprising (Score:4, Interesting)

      by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:25PM (#60320731) Journal
      Working for a Silicon Beach company (Santa Monica) and living in Ventura is awesome. Cost of living is about 60% of that in Santa Monica, but the quality of life is way higher (less crime, less traffic, less noise, uncrowded beaches, etc.) Yeah, I have an hour commute - but it's riding my motorcycle through Malibu along the ocean - that's not much of a "commute" when you get down to it...
      • That works until you have kids.

      • The PCH segment just north of Corral Canyon has a steep bluff on the inland side, that decided to drop a beach ball sized boulder around 40 meters away, spotted in my rearview mirror bouncing on the roadway, 2:30 AM, storm conditions. PCH was my commute for 6 years, long ago. I have no idea how I survived it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      I live in an area where you make considerably less and most people live considerable better. It is not only housing. It is the availability of local help due to the fact that cost of living is lower. It is a diversity that keeps up a rich culture. It is the availability of funds for charity that allows a diverse community of art and culture to prosper. In may cases, because you do not have to pay for long expensive commutes, you have time to actually enjoy the culture and be with your family.

      This is

  • Companies aren't going to pay the same salary if you live in the bay area vs podunk USA

    • Most companies realize very few people will take a pay cut even when moving from HCOL to LCOL. Expect your bay area resume to get shuffled to the bottom of the stack due to prior problems closing the deal with those trying to get out, or to spend the next decade with near zero raises until your salary comes in line with your local peers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mattb47 ( 85083 )

      Even if you take a pay cut, you still may be out ahead.

      The costs of living in San Francisco/Silicon Valley/New York/Santa Monica/expensive tech areas are so astronomically high, that you can move somewhere far cheaper, take a 20% pay cut, and you are still better off.

      I left San Jose for Indiana two years ago. And my finances are much, much better than previous.

  • See, let's say you're making $135,000 per year at Silly Valley tech company - although, most aren't really tech companies. More like advertisers and scam artists.

    So, recruiter scum is going to look at your pay and say, "Well, the cost of living here is one fifth of Silly Valley so we'll pay you $27,000 per year. But I can argue that you have the SKILZ!"

    So now being a dork, you are freaking out! Shit!! You make objections! You say, "Hey, a fucking house close to work is $300,000. Apartments are $1,200/mont

  • Please don't ruin our states (Score:5, Funny)

    by Texmaize ( 2823935 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:00PM (#60320393)
    An open letter to Coastal Douche Baggers:

    Times are tough. I feel for ya. With covid, no longer is money easy and pointless, tech sector jobs plentiful. People have to economize, which means they will focus more on essentials, things like food, energy, and a strong community. You know, all those things that are produced and valued in "Fly over country." For years you have made fun of us. You have openly mocked us, our conservative lifestyle. A lifestyle that values tradition, ties that bind, and hard work.

    Like the ant and the grasshopper, you have had it good for years. Fun in the sun. Spending money you don't have, because in summer it was always easy to get more. Rules were not for you. In fact, you openly teased anyone who thought there should be standards of behavior and societal norms. In fact, you openly attacked others and did what you could to tear us down.

    Now, you cities are crumbling. You bitterly have shit in the streets. You have fostered bad behavior and tribalism, now you have riots and destruction. In a final, hilarious act, you have even called for the no police to provide protection. Now you want to move?

    Seriously, fuck off. Fix your state. Do NOT come and ruin ours. Because if you come, you will not leave your dumbass values behind, will you? Like a parasite, you ate your host, and now you want to infect others. Please. Stay home.

    Signed
    Fly over people

    • Seriously, fuck off. Fix your state. Do NOT come and ruin ours. Because if you come, you will not leave your dumbass values behind, will you?

      Most of those people you are criticizing are outsiders, who came from your state to California because the salaries are good.

    • Re:Please don't ruin our states (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ogive17 ( 691899 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:09PM (#60320667)
      Careful, as someone else in fly-over country.. if you make it sound too nice then everyone will want to move here and our cost of living will go up.

      Let's be realistic here, we've got our own problems. We are more reliant (per capita) on Federal funds than most large cities. The opioid problem hasn't gone away, we just lost focus on it. Wages have been stagnant for decades which makes it hard for many people to save any money, even with low living expenses. Our infrastructure is crumbling just as much as everywhere else.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • If some reasonable amount of tech workers move there, it will be quite good for the local economy. Agreed it will be a problem if you have a flood. But a 10-20% uptick in population and the accompanying economic growth would probably be overall beneficial (although the long-time residents will bemoan the outsiders trying to transform the place)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Fringe ( 6096 )

        Careful, as someone else in fly-over country.. if you make it sound too nice then everyone will want to move here and our cost of living will go up.
        Let's be realistic here, we've got our own problems. We are more reliant (per capita) on Federal funds than most large cities.

        Yeah, well, about that... you're quoting a stat without understanding it. It's a form of "fake news". That particular statistic, at least originally, came from a bizarre, and intentionally-biased, study out of New York that was commissioned to prove a specific (yet false) point... and counted things such as all federal-sourced salaries and contracts in "dependency."

        Put another way, if you have a manufacturing plant that primarily builds components for the military, or if you have a military training base,

    • Got to say that this is not a rant confined to coasts. I’ve dealt with Texans who left their beloved state for a variety of reasons, and nothing ruins a nice town like a bunch of whiny Texans telling you 1) how much hotter Texas gets, 2) how much better & cheaper Texas is, and 3) how much they miss #1&2. Then they proceed to never go back or even try to assimilate to their new chosen home state.

      Texans, please stay in your wonderful 2nd largest state. Enjoy your bolo ties and pickups, we don

    • What exactly is that lifestyle and how is it different? Ok, I'm single, so that's different. But I get up, brush my teeth, shower, go to work, work hard, go home, watch TV, go to sleep, and repeat. I don't drink lattes, or even coffee. I pinch pennies, I don't spend money. I'm not a farmer or rancher, but that's nothing special because not every conservative is a farmer or rancher, and not every farmer or rancher is conservative.

      As for flyover states, I have seen outrageously high housing prices over t

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      This is tagged as "funny". Is it intended humor? I can't tell. It sounds like somebody fed Fox News & Rush L. into an AI spam generator.

    • Re:Please don't ruin our states (Score:4, Interesting)

      by skam240 ( 789197 ) on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @07:41PM (#60321067)

      Dear middle America douche,

      In California we probably produce more food than whatever state you live in, plenty of energy, and have plenty of strong communities (and what is with your flavor of conservative that some how think you invented strong communities or something?). Furthermore, "fly over staters" make fun of "coastal elites" all the time, stop being a fucking baby.

      I've been hearing for decades about how someday those coastal elites will get theirs because.... they believe in strong social services and have more money than us. Of course covid-19 will effect the coasts more than the middle of the country because there's just so much more to effect. Have no fear though, just like in every economic recovery we've had for the last half century we'll recover before anywhere else in the country.

      I will legitmitly feel bad though for whatever state you live in when five years from now you're economy is still in the dumps over this. I wish all states could generate the wealth and have the massively diversified economies we do.

      • > we probably produce more food than whatever state you live in

        No, the conservative farmers who fucking hate your worthless, child-molesting, dick-sucking face produce the food. The only thing you produce is shit.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by skam240 ( 789197 )

          Hahahaha

          • You replied to an AC despite your signature. And I'm replying to you because, yes, California produces a lot of food. But its not clear that California agriculture is sustainable.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by skam240 ( 789197 )

              Wow, so "by Gerald Butler ( 3528265 ) Alter Relationship on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @07:35PM (#60321309)" is what slashdot is using to label ACs now?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by skam240 ( 789197 )

              Also, it's about as sustainable as the midwest's who are now also drought prone like California is. Climate change is fucking with everyone's game.

    • I left flyover for the coast to make money, and now I'm all moneyed up and coming back.  Suck it.

  • However, there are concerns that companies won't be willing to pay Bay Area salaries if remote workers decide to relocate to less expensive areas.

    I think that is the point. Part of your pay is based on the expenses you incur, owning/renting is one of those expenses. At my last job a few remote workers were paid about 3/4 what I was paid, but they lived in the middle of nowhere, so they managed just fine.

    In the end I don't care how much I make, I care about how much I get to keep. So living a few hours away I get to keep about 25% of my pay after the year is done. I also only have about half my house loan left; and no other debts (credit cards,

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I think that is the point. Part of your pay is based on the expenses you incur, owning/renting is one of those expenses. At my last job a few remote workers were paid about 3/4 what I was paid, but they lived in the middle of nowhere, so they managed just fine.

      A lot of it is competition, too. Live in Podunk USA and your job prospects are far more restricted than in Silicon Valley. After all, in Silicon Valley you have lots of companies that looking for people to hire. Thus there is incentive to keep salarie

    • You ninja'd my title. Congratulations.

      If Tech workers choose to (or are assigned to) work in places with a lower cost of living, it's patently obvious that the company will want to pay less money. It's not just private companies that do that; federal salaries (and per diem) float at different levels all over the country, for the same sort of work and lodging. You can be very sure that Apple's not paying Bay Area scale in Texas. It's actually likely that if a company doesn't do that, they probably won't pay

    • I hope you don't have to go in every day, living a few hours away. You may as well be working 14 hours a day.

  • SF is an open privy where the real estate prices have been inflated to the point that the city's about to lift off and head for orbit.

    Living there has got to be a nightmare to sane people.

    A million bucks will get you a porta-potty dropped on a public corner someplace.
    You have hordes of Chinese "investors" sitting on hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of properties that are bought and deliberately kept empty.
    Rent is consequently through the roof without ridiculous commutes.
    Anything under a 6 figure salary is "Get an

  • Housing in SF is expensive because tech companies pay so much. Tech companies don't pay so much because housing is so expensive. It's the salary increases that caused the housing price increases.

    As anyone in a hiring role can attest to, you can't hire good engineers easily; the market is tilted towards engineers, not towards companies, so companies increase salaries to attract top talent, top talent has more money to buy housing, the housing market isn't increasing as much as people are buying, supply dem

    • Housing in SF is expensive because tech companies pay so much.

      Housing in SF is expensive because there's too many people and not enough houses and the locals fight to the death against any attempt to improve the housing supply because "MY PROPERTY VALUES". Oh and rent control: the sure fire way to make housing unaffordable for everyone.

  • It's bad news for Bay Area tech workers that companies are now open to remote working. Maybe someone in Virginia will like to take your job, start work at noon (9am PST) and sign out at 9pm (6pm PST). And do it for 60% the pay.

    The only possible result of this globalization of office labor is a decrease in salaries. Be happy that you live in a beautiful place with excellent climate, and that the soon-to-come decrease in property values means at least your taxes are going to get a little easier.

  • There was a simplish fix to COVID-19. What we could have done was tax the rich used that money to pay non-essential workers who couldn't telecommute to stay home, telecommute everything possible, and had a real science based response to COVID-19 instead of this sad state of affairs we still have going on now. Other countries figured it out. It just so happened those countries were all either socialist or communist and listened to scientists. For some reason Bible thumping capitalists have no soul and no

  • When I drive through rural New Mexico, there are literally ghost towns every few dozen miles. It's an eerie feeling to drive through such places. Looks like an ok old west town, but all doors and windows boarded up. Suddenly at the outskirts you see a building with a satellite dish and a truck. Someone is still living there..

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