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The Military Government United States Games

Should the US Military Be Recruiting On Twitch? (theverge.com) 160

Posted by BeauHD from the cease-and-desist dept.
The U.S. military has for years been using streaming channels and video gaming to recruit people. "Several branches of the military -- with the exception of the Marines -- have had esports teams since 2018," reports The Verge. "And according to Military.com, the Army's esports efforts alone generated 3,500 recruiting leads in fiscal year 2019."

But the question is... should they be recruiting on these platforms? According to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), the answer is no. She is proposing an amendment that would ban the U.S. military from recruiting on Twitch. The Verge reports: "Children should not be targeted in general for many marketing purposes in addition to military service. Right now, currently, children on platforms such as Twitch are bombarded with banner ads linked to recruitment signup forms that can be submitted by children as young as 12 years old," Ocasio-Cortez said on the House floor Thursday. "These are not education outreach programs for the military."

Last week, the Army paused its use of Twitch for recruitment after its channel was criticized for banning viewers who asked about war crimes. The Army told GameSpot: "The team has paused streaming to review internal policies and procedures, as well as all platform-specific policies, to ensure those participating in the space are clear before streaming resumes." And earlier this month, Twitch told the Army to stop sharing phony prize giveaways on its channel that promised an Xbox Elite Series 2 controller, only for users to be directed to a recruitment page when they clicked through. The language of Ocasio-Cortez's draft would make that pause permanent, banning US military organizations from using funds to "maintain a presence on Twitch.com or any video game, e-sports, or live-streaming platform." You can watch the congresswoman's impassioned floor speech here.
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Should the US Military Be Recruiting On Twitch? More

Should the US Military Be Recruiting On Twitch?

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  • I don't see a problem (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:28PM (#60349915) Homepage

    Most kids could use a few years in the military ( marines specifically ), but beyond that I don't really see the problem. If they're interested, they can pursue it throughout highschool. If not, they won't.

    There are far worse things for kids to feel pressured into.

    • Ah yes (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rmdingler ( 1955220 )

      It's not limited to their demographic, but discipline and personal accountability are sorely lacking in our country's youth, and being an instrument of death for a national army sounds a bit extreme as a fix... but hell, they're playing first person shooter games and GTA anyway, so they might as well learn the honor part.

      • Coming from a country with compulsory subscription (Israel), I can tell you that we're not especially respectful to each other because of it. Hell, I think that one of the main lessons the army teaches you is that if somebody is not above you in rank or from the same unit as you, you can shit on him.

      • If you want discipline and personal accountability, sports work just as well. There's no magic pill that makes someone a better person/worker as soon as they put on a military uniform. It has to be trained into them, and there are plenty of other ways to get that same kind of training.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.

        - Aristotle, around 340 BC

    • Boo hiss (Score:3, Insightful)

      by goombah99 ( 560566 )

      The military is not evil. It is an honorable profession. Treating as something to shield kids from is bonkers. Hide it from your own kids if you feel that way (and that's okay if you do) but don't make it a general thing as it's not. If it's really that way then we should not even have it.

      • Agreed. Sorry that didn't come through better in my original post.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
        Twitch is full of guys throwing thousands of dollars at Booby streamers where you get banned for misgendering but not animal abuse and we're afraid a few recruiters are going to bring it to disrepute?
      • While I completely agree with you I have just noticed one problem: this story breaks Betteridge's law of headlines.

      • Re:Boo hiss (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LenKagetsu ( 6196102 ) on Friday July 31, 2020 @04:07AM (#60350621)

        The US military is an honorable* profession.

        *According to the US military.

      • Re:Boo hiss (Score:5, Insightful)

        by tinkerton ( 199273 ) on Friday July 31, 2020 @06:30AM (#60350767)

        The military is an ugly thing. It is made to kill and destroy. It could be an honorable profession if it is strictly defensive. The US military is not. The US has never had to defend itself from any invasion but has focused entirely on dominating the world. Well, at least when it worked. Now it's more a trillion dollar business. No wonder there are career opportunities in a business that size.
        There are plenty of people in the military who want to be honorable and who will grab any opportunity to do so. I'm absolutely convinced by that. But that means they are also fully committed to believe the propaganda about what they are doing because otherwise how are they going to live with themselves? How is any drone operator (ok that is usually CIA) playing their videogames all over the world supposed to live with himself or herself? By buying into a good cover story.
        Ask the Afghanistan vets if they think the US military is honorable.

        • I asked. He said "Yes".

        • The US has never had to defend itself from any invasion

          Pearl Harbor.

          • Pearl Harbor is on Hawaii. It was a one-off strike, not an invasion. It was also perfectly avoidable and it was merely the first hit in a war the US was desperate to get involved in. The policy makers that is, not the population.
            If you want deterrence you rely on tit-for-tat, not on 'we goad you into making the first move and then we don't stop until we conquered you completely.'

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

              Pearl Harbor is on Hawaii. It was a one-off strike, not an invasion.

              How about the Japanese landing troops on the Aleutian Islands, which are part of Alaska?

              • I dunno, maybe they got lost? Look, Japan , like Germany, knew it did not stand a chance against the US. The best they could hope for is a good first strike and then negotiate a truce to keep the US at bay. For them the US was a very real threat. The opposite was very different.
                There is a famous memo [wikipedia.org] which captured the US position pretty well. It is only an advisory but it is very sensible and it is hard to see how FDR would think any differently if he had a minimum of competence. (there is a lot of denial

        • Q. What do you call someone who murders 160 people?
          A. Depends on who is paying them!
          * If your government then a war hero,
          * If the enemy government then a terrorist,
          * If no one then a psychopath serial killer.

      • Re:Boo hiss (Score:4, Insightful)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday July 31, 2020 @07:11AM (#60350847) Homepage Journal

        The problem is that if you join up some idiot might send you off to a pointless war and then abandon you when you come back with PTSD and one leg.

        Too often the military (in many countries, not just the US) relies on young people having poor prospects and being desperate to learn skills or avoid poverty. It should be a desirable job with excellent benefits and after-service care where needed, but it's not.

        • - You can conquer a place, loot its resources, turn it into a market for your agriculture products. A lot of people benefit at home. Is it pointless?

          - You can go to war for the benefit of a wealthy minority. You protect your warriors well so the harm to them is minimal , and this minimizes the resistance at home. Some people come back with PTSD but not that much. If you look at the history of war the harm to US soldiers is negligeable really. You can automate more , put people on remote controls and reduce

          • 4.3% of drone pilots come back with PTSD. They're not in any real danger. Protecting the bodies of troops does little to keep them safe from PTSD.

      • The military is an honorable profession. But military recruiting is not honorable. So we could do one of three things. We could insist that the recruiting is honorable (since it is sort of associated with the honorable profession), we could (equally ridiculous) decide that the military is not an honorable profession (due the non-honorable recruiting) or we could, you know, maybe make the recruiting live up to the standards of the job. Clearly my choice of word indicates that I prefer the last choice.

      • The military is not evil. It is an honorable profession. Treating as something to shield kids from is bonkers.

        The military as an institution is not evil and neither is the profession. That doesn't mean that it necessarily is a positive development for someone. Patriotism and unquestioning faith in leadership are not necessarily good qualities to instill, plus as a country that is already somewhat madly violent against one another it's probably good less people are trained in lethal tactics.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dusanyu ( 675778 )
      you forgot to mention the free healthcare and education that comes with military service.

    • It's not like ROTC was a really bad thing either. Exposing children to the idea of military service is okay with me.

    • Except kids (and many adults) have a severely romanticized view of the military and war. You would have a difficult time finding a veteran willing to answer the question "How many people have you killed" with a straight face.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Because for starters, most people who actually served as combat troops have not a faintest clue. Which was true since we gave up melee weapons for ranged ones. Turns out its really hard to judge if you killed someone or not at fifty metres out in WW1, much less at today's ranges. Did that guy you saw through a scope get hit, or hear a bullet whistle past him and dive into the ground? Did that guy you seemingly hit get lightly wounded, heavily wounded or killed? Did that plane that got hit and started emitti

    • I went through the military recruitment process. It's broken. Yes the military needs to recruit. But in areas of the country (read: poor) where military enlistment is common (read: economic pressure), the advice I hear routinely given is to never talk to a military recruiter without your parents. The most common scam is that you are signed up to enlist with a promise of a certain job and associated training (i.e. you will learn vehicle repair) but the actual enlistment has no such provision and you end

    • There are far worse things for kids to feel pressured into.

      There are also better things than pressuring kids into a training program devoted to the unquestioning faith of authority and patriotism. I think the USA has enough of a mad flag flying mentality.

  • Yvan Eht Nioj

  • What's the Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Roger W Moore ( 538166 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:45PM (#60349947) Journal
    I'm not sure what the problem is here. When I was a kid the British Army ran ads on the telly and nobody had a problem with that. How it is any different if they run ads or events on Twitch which kids happen to see? So long as they are not using high-pressure tactics or are being deceptive, making kids aware of future careers, especially ones that serve and protect society, is hardly something anyone should be stopping.

    • Mod Up Please (Score:5, Interesting)

      by skam240 ( 789197 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:29PM (#60350057)

      Amen to that. My dad came from a poor family and the education the military got him led him to a very affluent position in the private sector after serving 20 years (He was a reasonably successful management consultant after leaving the military for those who want to assume he was a tool of the military industrial establishment). There are absolutely down sides to serving of course but the fact is that the US military offers a lot of good to people who don't have it by inheritance.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mobby_6kl ( 668092 )

      Just because nobody had a problem with advertising to children in 80s/90s(?) UK doesn't mean it's not actually an issue. And of course the ads are deceptive, you're not going to be fighting dragons with a sword [youtube.com] but either sitting at a desk somewhere, blowing up weddings, or getting blown up by IEDs. Kids are dumb as fuck and wouldn't know what they're getting into or how it contributes to the bigger picture.

    • Did you read the TFS?! They are offering phony prize giveaways to get contact information from 12 year olds who have no interest in the military. That's a far cry from running an Ad on the telly!

    • Same here... In fact, to this day I remember some of the recruitment slogans from when I was a little kid like: "It's not just a job. It's an adventure.". We also had movies like Top Gun and cartoons like GI Joe which were, in retrospect, very obviously made to glorify the military and lead people towards a career there; an activity which continued on for years into shows such as J.A.G. and Stargate SG-1. But really? If someone's so weak-willed as to choose their career based on a movie, TV series, or

  • I guess (Score:5, Insightful)

    by will_die ( 586523 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:46PM (#60349955) Homepage
    I guess you should stop the US military from recruiting if you think the military is just a bunch of baby killers. If you thought that they are protecting a country of value and perform an act of honor than preventing them from advertising to people in their 20s is just stupid.

    • Re: I guess (Score:4, Insightful)

      by NagrothAgain ( 4130865 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:02PM (#60350231)

      I guess you should stop the US military from recruiting if you think the military is just a bunch of baby killers.

      Yes, or better yet do something about how our military is used so that they don't have such an image. Seeing as how that's kind of exactly her fucking job.

  • They've been at it since 2002, sky didn't fall. (Score:5, Informative)

    by doug141 ( 863552 ) on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:04PM (#60350001)

    Video game outreach from the US Army started in 2002 with the release of the free America's Army game. The kids are fine.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • Video game outreach from the US Army started in 2002 with the release of the free America's Army game. The kids are fine.

      I didn't see any problem with the idea of military recruiting on Twitch until I followed your logic.

    • The kids are fine.

      Based on what? On a daily basis we have people telling us how fucked up the incoming generation is. Clearly they played too much Americas Army and should have spent more time getting high on magic mushrooms and jumping on turtles.

    • The kids are now cops who are trained shoot anyone on sight because they are trained to avoid the hypothetical scenario where a citizen might draw a gun fast as lightning and shoot them between the eyes? The US is not alright.

  • Whatever it takes to sabotage US military...

    According to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY)

    Of course, it comes from, like, literally, you know, the dumbest of the Congressmen...

    These are not education outreach programs for the military

    ROTC [wikipedia.org] does not count, eh? Or is she simply unaware of it?

  • So let people advertise!

    Of course the bait and switch shouldn't be allowed, but regular ads? Why not?

    • Military recruiters are exempt from many, if not all, advertising regulations. Which I'm fine with, as those regulations are intended to protect the public, as is military recruitment.

  • AOC is in the camp that there should be no recruiting. Not on Twitch is just one facet. But take away those recruiting tools that target teens and you'll have to bring back the draft. Is that the way to go?

    • She wants to get rid of the military altogether, and weakening the recruiting process is one step. Enough people won't vote to get rid of the military, but maybe they'll vote for that.
  • Military recruiting on Twitch is fine by me, except that they will have to be a LOT smarter about it if they want to have any success. Military culture is almost the exact opposite of Twitch. In the military, there's a clear chain of command, everyone knows exactly who they answer to and who they have to salute to. Respect and professionalism is drummed into people and a superior officer can pretty much control every aspect what's going on in a room.

    Yeah.... that just isn't going to work on Twitch. Fro
  • a gamer behind every squad, flight, fleet of robo warriors everyone deploys in the future.
    Well until we run out of gamers then we'll have to turn everything over to AI and hope it's ready ;)

  • There... that was easy.

  • With the green hair and the cloud of potsmoke. Like shooters? Blowing shit up? Killing badguys? Have I got a deal for you.

    Check this out dude, not only can we get you out of you moms basement, but we actually pay you to live here. No rent. No shit. Sounds pretty good right? It gets better- Momsie gonna be all proud, and your town will call you a hero. You're like 18 or so right? Yeah, chicks dig this uniform, smokes and booze are cheaper on base, and if you end up in the clink on a Sunday morning you just m

  • With not being either pro or against on recruiting on Twitch, and since I'm not American, I have the following genuine question...

    What is the difference in recruiting on Twitch, and the US armed forces advertising at football games (see https://the-cauldron.com/the-nfl-is-one-giant-military-recruitment-tool-ae28276185e4 [the-cauldron.com] ?

    Is the demographic of Twitch that much different than football?

    • It is not just Twitch that democrats want to stop them advertising in it is every e-sport event.
      American football watchers as an average are 20 years older than e-sport watchers; with the average age of e-sport watchers being inthe 28-32 age range. For twitch users specific it tends to be age 18-30s which are the majority so twitch age group looks to be the lower than the average e-sport goer.
  • I wish I could say this was the most ridiculous thing to come out of Cortez's mouth, but it isn't. I wish I could say I was surprised that a member of congress would stand on the floor and insult the honor and value of those who secure our freedoms, but I'm not. I wish I could say it was a shock that an elected representative could forget why we have recruiters do what they do, but I'm not.

    It's a disappointment that we aren't just ignoring this garbage.

    The military has to go where the prospects are.

  • Military service is a huge decision. Also, recruiters are extremely annoying. I think Americans have every right to start regulating the way the military recruits. You don't know how many people have signed up for service and got hood-winked into a career path that wasn't right for them. Recruiters are paid to paint a really rosy picture of enlistment. They don't tell you that all the benefits of service are constantly under attack by congress. They don't tell you about all the people that have had a straig
  • I can't believe it. I actually agree with AOC for once. Military recruitment efforts should not target children.

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