'We Must Take a Stand': Portland's Iconic Powell's Books Says It Won't Sell Books On Amazon Anymore (oregonlive.com) 116
Portland-based Powell's Books, the world's largest new and used bookstore, says it won't sell on Amazon anymore, "declaring that the online retail giant undermines communities by siphoning business from the real world and replacing it with internet commerce," reports Oregon Live. From the report: "For too long, we have watched the detrimental impact of Amazon's business on our communities and the independent bookselling world," CEO Emily Powell wrote in a note to customers Wednesday. "The vitality of our neighbors and neighborhoods depends on the ability of local businesses to thrive," Powell wrote. "We will not participate in undermining that vitality."
Portland-based Powell's is among the world's largest bookstores and is the city's signature retailer. But it's dwarfed by the inventory available through Amazon's website. So Powell's, like many other retailers, supplements its business by listing its products on Amazon's own site -- and giving Amazon a share of each sale. That puts smaller retailers at an obvious disadvantage, given that they're depending on a much larger competitor for an important share of their sales. But many feel they have no choice but to list on Amazon given that company's dominant market position online. The bookstore declined to elaborate on Wednesday's statement or say how much of its business flows through Amazon. "We understand that in many communities, Amazon -- and big box retail chains -- have become the only option," Emily Powell wrote. "And yet when it comes to our local community and the community of independent bookstores around the U.S., we must take a stand."
Portland-based Powell's is among the world's largest bookstores and is the city's signature retailer. But it's dwarfed by the inventory available through Amazon's website. So Powell's, like many other retailers, supplements its business by listing its products on Amazon's own site -- and giving Amazon a share of each sale. That puts smaller retailers at an obvious disadvantage, given that they're depending on a much larger competitor for an important share of their sales. But many feel they have no choice but to list on Amazon given that company's dominant market position online. The bookstore declined to elaborate on Wednesday's statement or say how much of its business flows through Amazon. "We understand that in many communities, Amazon -- and big box retail chains -- have become the only option," Emily Powell wrote. "And yet when it comes to our local community and the community of independent bookstores around the U.S., we must take a stand."
A Cycle? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Powell books, on the other hand, is run by a megalomaniacal family who through mind control and manipulation have convinced their cult members that Powell's is the source of their salvation. There is nothing special about Powells. It is not an independent book sto
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Four whole stores does not make them the behemoth you seem to think they are, and you're simply on crack if you think they prioritize anything over their Portland customers. The only reason they began selling online in the first place was to do a better job for their local customers- if you're the last one to have read "On the Road" in Portland, they can't just buy it back from you to sit on the shelves forever, but they can absolutely sell it to so
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My point is that Amazon allows independent, especially used books stores, from around the country to find customers looking for books. I have found many books, many out of print books I never thought I would find again, using the Amazon platform.
Amazon has destroyed the commodity large bookstore that depends on premium prices. Powellâ(TM)s big co
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Powell's has to be selective about what they by because it has to be physically handled (which costs money) and eventually shelved (and every linear inch of shelving has ongoing costs.) They have to be reasonably certain that investment of money will pay off.
Amazon's new book department is similarly curated as handling and storage costs money - and a
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This is the stupidest thing I've seen posted today. Oh, yeah, Powell's, with a few stores, competes with Amazon, which is worth a trillion dollars?
But then, I doubt that fermion reads anything other than comic books.
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This is the stupidest thing I've seen posted today. Oh, yeah, Powell's, with a few stores, competes with Amazon, which is worth a trillion dollars?
But then, I doubt that fermion reads anything other than comic books.
Locally, they do compete with Amazon. I don't think GP was suggesting they compete in all markets.
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It's dead Jim (Score:3)
It really is.
otherworldly commerce (Score:2)
Wait until they find out the internet is made out of bits of real world. (Well, except for the addresses that you have to access through the router at Miskatonic U.)
End of an era. (Score:4, Interesting)
Powell's is a truly unique book store, it epitomizes the name.
It is a local cultural landmark. People would spend an evening there, browsing. Authors would come to speak and you can chat with them.
However, I don't see how they can survive anymore than Blockbuster. I am just surprised how long they lasted.
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But do your children buy and read real books? Someday, you will die.
Based on the continued devolution of humanity, I can only assume you're referring to not only the death of print, but the intellectual capability to interpret it.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, Ask Siri. Your children certainly have to.
Re:End of an era. (Score:4, Interesting)
But do your children buy and read real books?
Yes. I can't speak for anyone else's children, but my 19 year-old daughter is a bookworm like her parents.
I think there's going to be a downsizing of the physical book industry. Lots of people enjoy listening to audio books or using screen-readers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I also hear a lot of anecdotal evidence that there are still a lot of people out there, including younger people, who prefer reading a physical book.
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Plenty of people, probably. Enough people? And that number keeps decreasing every year.
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Powell's isn't just another book store though.
It is perhaps the last of its kind.
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might as well be, most of us never heard of it until just now
Re:End of an era. (Score:4, Interesting)
People in the Pacific Northwest know Portland's Powell's, just like they know Seattle's Elliott Bay Book Company. Many readers up here have basically made pilgrimages to Powell's. When I lived in Seattle, I loved visiting Elliott Bay, as well as all the other musty little bookshops which were everywhere in the 80s and 90s.
But I have to admit... I swore up and down that I'd never want to read anything but physical books. But when I had shoulder surgery and was told to completely avoid using that arm for three months, I got a KIndle so I had something to do... and now I strongly prefer reading ebooks. Just being able to change the font size on a book is incredibly handy, plus I don't have to make a trip just to get my next read.
It's not a perfect ecosystem. It certainly is annoying that I have to go to the trouble to break the DRM just to back up my books (I do try to shop at online sellers which don't use DRM whenever possible); and it's silly that I can't sell them to someone else (even though I never sold my physical books). But the advantages definitely outweigh the disadvantages.
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so some insignificant portion of the population of the world go to this niche hobby store, and people are surprised no one knows who they are
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You are confusing people and you.
YOU don't know who they are.
Its quite well known in the area (Pacific Northwest). People who don't read books much know of it.
That is why I described it as a local landmark.
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Powell's is a truly unique book store, it epitomizes the name. It is a local cultural landmark. People would spend an evening there, browsing. Authors would come to speak and you can chat with them. However, I don't see how they can survive anymore than Blockbuster. I am just surprised how long they lasted.
We used to have a large local bookstore much like that around here. My wife and I would go there on date night; have a nice dinner and spend a couple hundred dollars at the bookstore. The owners sold out to Books-A-Million and they moved the store to a huge cavernous building in an outdoor mall. It ihas far fewer books and they're all of the "Books-A-Million" variety. They used to have an entire room of computer books and now they have six feet of shelving with zero programming books. It has at least 5
We did this a long time ago (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no sympathy for anybody who sells anything through Amazon. Eventually, they'll run them out of business by undercutting them with similar products, or by charging so much that it's impossible to make a profit. Make a deal with the devil, and you get what you deserve.
Re: We did this a long time ago (Score:2)
Re: We did this a long time ago (Score:5, Insightful)
then Amazon too will be run out of business
Have fun trying. Amazon can cut their prices on your product niche to zero. It's called cutting off your air supply. Popularized by another major tech company.
Re: We did this a long time ago (Score:5, Funny)
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sounds pretty standard for that arrangement, want to sell at a big chain, you better prey its only 30% (like time I cared to look getting an item on the shelf at walmart was almost 40%)
Powell’s backdoor by Amazon purchase Abebook (Score:1)
Abebooks.com was a long time independent online e-commerce seller of physical books online that my own appreciation lasted for years.
Powell’s may or may not have ran on Abenooks.com platform, but I still remember procurement online from them too.
Amazon should have been prohibited from buying Abebooks.com and users of that platform has their data filched by the acquisition.
Who thought it was going to make sense?
Re: Powell’s backdoor by Amazon purchase Abe (Score:2)
But Powell's need a better web site (Score:4, Insightful)
When I go to the Powell's web site, if I don't know ahead of time what book I want, I can't find it. Most books don't even have the blurb from the back cover.
I would *REALLY* prefer to buy from Powel's, but it's usually impossible.
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You could do to Amazon what people often do with their smartphones and the Amazon app at physical brick & mortar stores. Go to Amazon, get the info you need about the product, determine if you want to buy it, then head to Powell's site to make the actual purchase.
Powells sucks anyway (Score:1)
Powell's sucks; the cost of their used books is relatively high, and usually are only a dollar or two off of the cost of a new book. Their retail selection sucks too.
That said, their stores are really nice. It'd be too bad if they folded, but I said the same thing about Borders back in the day.
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I tried buying books at Borders. The largest section was "religion." Well, except for music CDs. I don't miss Borders at all; it was a total waste to begin with.
books = dead media (Score:2)
doesn't mean you can't like them but yea, here's a picture for ya, 99 cent goodwill outlet near my work had 10-12 gaylords of random books, pick 10 for 99 cents, and they had to recycle almost all of them when they shut down that location a few years later
#1 reason to go to Portland (Score:5, Insightful)
Powell's has always been a major reason to go to Portland. The main bookstore is amazing, but I still miss the technical bookstore around the corner on Park. When you browse physical books you sometimes find things you had no idea you wanted.
Their web site just doesn't capture the "browsing" experience. Web sites try: some of my most interesting on line purchases have been "People who bought x also bought y", others have been just plain fat fingers.
...laura
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I get a lot of my reading material from a bi-annual charity book sale (or at least I would if this virus hadn't forced them to cancel the last one). I have ended up with books I hadn't even heard of until I saw them in the pile but which not only turned out to be great but lead me to seek out more books in the same series or by the same author.
This isn't just some regular charity shop, they fill several expo halls in a convention centre with books and CDs and DVDs and records and video games and more, all d
Here's a tip (Score:2)
For buying books online my favorite place is Better World Books (www.betterworldbooks.com). In addition to selling used & new books they also support literacy programs & libraries. Really great folks. Good prices on books, too.
100 years ago... (Score:2)
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Umm (Score:2)
Too late (Score:1)
For that matter, printed books are probably on their last legs anyway.
So, good for them deciding to stand up for something they believe in. Sorry that it won't matter now though.
Walmart ... (Score:2)
... in its infancy, anyone?
Motivated (Score:2)
Online is a better experience.. (Score:2)
The last time I went to a physical book store I spent maybe 20 minutes looking for the book I wanted. They didn't have it. I brought it from amazon cheaper and without having to do more than type the title in the search bar. I wasted maybe an hour and a half including travelling time.
If physical book stores want to stay in business they need to offer things amazon can't. I can't think what those things would be.
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Besides that, even if they'd had it, immediately, you're then paying for that stock space, the retail fronting, heating, lighting, staffing, etc.
They can't compete with an Internet-only retailer, they never will. They need to find a new USP. I highly doubt "local community" is going to be it, if my (now disappeared) "local" butcher, baker, grocer, bookseller, car parts manufacturer, furniture maker, phone shop etc. are anything to go by.
It's 2020. We need to just admit that we live in the future. Things
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They offer two things: the ability to browse, hence serendipity, and the ability to get recommendations from the staff, who might actually know your tastes or you might know theirs.
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How much could you sell your digital book collection for? Will they work when the power goes out for a week?
Answering those questions for myself, around 8K USD. Will Durant's "History of Civilization" (8 volume set, hardbound from Heritage Press) is worth over a grand all by itself. And yes they work anytime, every time.
Re:We have tablets (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot once you have purchased a book, neither the publisher nor the seller can take your book away from you.
Nor are you locked into buying from one bookseller.
Nor do you have to worry if you'll be able to read the book fifty years on (eyesight notwithstanding).
Nor do you have to worry about the words being surreptitiously changed/altered/removed in a book.
Showing off your collection of books can be a conversation starter.
If need be, you can throw a book at someone and it won't break so you don't have to buy a new one.
Books have stopped bullets.
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Bookcases give you something to put on the empty spaces on your walls.
Re:We have tablets (Score:4, Interesting)
Some publishers like Tor sell without DRM, so you can take that and format shift it as you like. Back your ebooks up and no one can ever change them.
Ebooks are also better for the environment, don't need to cut down trees, pulp through expensive processing, ship, print, ship more, move from place to place, etc.
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> Ebooks are also better for the environment, ...
Did you:
* account for the pro-rated portion of the electronic reading device's environmental cost?
* account for comparative lifetimes between the book and the (ebook file + succession of devices) cost?
With good care, my dead tree book will last 60+ years (longer with archival paper), be readable without mechanical interpretation forever, etc.
Whether it will be relevant in 60+ years is another story, of course, weighing in favor of your Ebook column - on av
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* account for the pro-rated portion of the electronic reading device's environmental cost?
You can do some googling, but to produce an e-reader produces ~ 100 times more carbon than the book, then add in shipping (trucking, whatever to move the heavy books around) and the fact that 1/4 to 1/3 of books are destroyed unsold. If you're reading 100 books you're well ahead on emissions. Obviously mining is dirty, but so are paper mills.
* account for comparative lifetimes between the book and the (ebook file + succession of devices) cost?
Most books are read once (if that), and never touched again. Personally my Kindle is 9-years old and still fine, the lifecycle on e-readers is much longer than any othe
Re:We have tablets (Score:4, Interesting)
You forgot once you have purchased a book, neither the publisher nor the seller can take your book away from you.
Kindle's DRM is easily broken and you can back up your books. Some publishers simply sell unencrypted EPUBs directly, which is even better.
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Nor do you have to worry if you'll be able to read the book fifty years on (eyesight notwithstanding).
Why would't I want to do something new instead?
Re:We have tablets (Score:4, Interesting)
Why would't I want to do something new instead?
No one says you can't. Some of us enjoy rereading a classic or favorite book from time to time, the same way some people enjoy re-watching a movie.
Have you ever eaten the same thing more than once, like pizza or steak or ice cream? Maybe that's because you liked it before and you expect you might like it again.
In that respect a book is no different than a meal or a movie or any other experience- if you liked it before then you may like it again.
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I have a good memory, so I remember how it ends and more-or-less all the bits of the story. Reading anything again ends up being boring.
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They can do what they want. They don't need my approval.
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I have a fairly good memory as well. But I still re-read the Hyperion Cantos every couple of years because, while the memory of it is fine on its own, the actual act of reading it feels a lot like hanging out with old friends. I mean, sure, I could go out and meet new people and that's fun too, but I'm still gonna get together with my old high school buds every once in a while and tell the same old stories and talk about the same life situations because it's a damn good time.
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One of the best things about physical books is family and friends can borrow them.
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Re: We have tablets (Score:1)
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You forgot once you have purchased a book, neither the publisher nor the seller can take your book away from you.
Nor are you locked into buying from one bookseller.
Nor do you have to worry if you'll be able to read the book fifty years on (eyesight notwithstanding).
Nor do you have to worry about the words being surreptitiously changed/altered/removed in a book.
Showing off your collection of books can be a conversation starter.
If need be, you can throw a book at someone and it won't break so you don't have to buy a new one.
Books have stopped bullets.
These are all arguments--perhaps minus the armor plating--that also apply to physical versus digital music, though they are even more persuasive for books. But there are still strengths to the digital format, chiefly portability. It's good to have both. Physical for books I care about, books to study or reference, or books with essential pictures or diagrams, like children's books. Digital for having a bunch of options to read wherever and whenever, or for serials where it's nice to have the next installmen
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lol how much can you sell your physical collection for, go look ill wait, I bet there's at LEAST 3 places loaded floor to ceiling with musty old books within a 15 min radius of your house. And they can't give them away, 10 for a dollar paperbacks, maybe a 2.99$ glossy hardback
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Umm...look forHalf Priced Books ... maybe a Texas thing. They purchased some of my books about a year ago.
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so they are buying them for pennies by the lb, worthy investment for the amount of space
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How much could you sell your digital book collection for? Will they work when the power goes out for a week?
Very few people buy old books. And when people "collect" shit, I've noticed it mostly makes them unhappy.
Answering those questions for myself, around 8K USD. Will Durant's "History of Civilization" (8 volume set, hardbound from Heritage Press) is worth over a grand all by itself. And yes they work anytime, every time.
You never sold it. You never collected $1000. And your kids will probably sell it at the estate sale for $12.
And why do we care that books we never read "work anytime"?
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"How much could you sell your digital book collection for? Will they work when the power goes out for a week?
Answering those questions for myself, around 8K USD."
You can sell your digital book collection for 8K USD?
Here's another question, in what world does it matter how much someone's used book collection is worth, digital or otherwise? What must happen for you to depend on that, and what will your collection be worth then?
Some people will go to no ends to justify some stupid bullshit.
Re: We have tablets (Score:2)
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I feel the same way about music and movies.
Remember Arthur C Clarke's well-known adage that “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”?
Books, movies (VHS, DVD, Blu-ray) and music (vinyl records, 8-tracks, cassettes) used to take a lot of space but their contents can now be stored in a "magical bottomless bag". It's even in an invisible bag if you only use cloud services.
Re:We have tablets (Score:4, Informative)
Holy shit, that's depressing. I don't know how people live like that. No books? "too heavy"? Wow. That's sad.
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We don't know how people like you can live like that. So much wasted space for books. Space that could be used to store RealDolls.
Re: We have tablets (Score:2)
Re: We have tablets (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: We have tablets (Score:5, Insightful)
They're deeply satisfying. Staring at a screen is not.
Bingo.
Some people just don't get that. The feel, the smell, the textures, the pure wonderful physicality of an actual book is something that no .epub or PDF will ever have.
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They're deeply satisfying. Staring at a screen is not.
Bingo.
Some people just don't get that. The feel, the smell, the textures, the pure wonderful physicality of an actual book is something that no .epub or PDF will ever have.
As someone who grew up with "real" books and loved them and somehow still does, and as someone with friends who used to work in the book trade, and loved it, too, I know what you mean, but on the other hand, isn't that rather esoteric, and a disregard of the essence of books, which is their contents, and of the writers who created those contents?
With the e-book reader I sometimes do miss the experience of the total artwork some books I've read over time were, elaborately designed and crafted, with beautiful
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I know what you mean, but on the other hand, isn't that rather esoteric, and a disregard of the essence of books, which is their contents, and of the writers who created those contents?
I'm not saying the value or worth of the content of a book decreases in any way by putting it in ebook form, just that they lack some attributes that I find enjoyable like the physicality. For example, I have some books that I've owned for several decades. Handling and reading them brings back memories in a way that a .jpg or ebook just doesn't do (and that I wouldn't expect).
It's the difference between the refrigerator art your kid makes and printing stuff out of a clip art catalog.
At the same time I don't
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A decade or two ago, when e-books were just coming out, this argument was answered by those who proposed that e-book readers might come with leather bindings or something. I'm sure you can get a leather holder for your e-book reader, and that might answer part of your question--although of course you'd need to collect a bunch of different holders if you wanted the variety of real books.
Otoh, you could--in principle, at least, I don't know if you can really do this (being myself an owner of many paper books
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It's true that ebooks have some fantastic advantages, and like I said I read ebooks from time to time. I'm not "against" ebooks in any way.
So couldn't you balance these things that you could change against the physicality?
I don't think of it that way; for me there's no need to balance one against the other or anything like that. They're just different forms of media, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.
Isn't your argument like saying that photographs are inferior to paintings, when really they're just a different art form?
Not at all. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they each give you a different experience that's tied to the media. Ebooks have all sorts of great features t
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I know what you mean, but on the other hand, isn't that rather esoteric, and a disregard of the essence of books, which is their contents, and of the writers who created those contents?
I'm not saying the value or worth of the content of a book decreases in any way by putting it in ebook form, just that they lack some attributes that I find enjoyable like the physicality. For example, I have some books that I've owned for several decades. Handling and reading them brings back memories in a way that a .jpg or ebook just doesn't do (and that I wouldn't expect).
It's the difference between the refrigerator art your kid makes and printing stuff out of a clip art catalog.
At the same time I don't deny that ebooks have some fantastic advantages, but they're all practical advantages and got no soul, they do nothing for the heart.
I read ebooks from time to time, but the physical article has an essence that a string of ones and zeroes never will.
As I said, I do get what you mean, and I do not oppose anyone's highly regarding what makes a book different from an e-book. I know quite well how it feels from the times where there were no e-books myself.
Still I disagree with some of the rationale you present to get your point across, and your implying people wouldn't get the "heart" or the "soul" in things. The difference is not at all like the one between that "refrigerator art" and "stuff out of a clipart catalog". It is not even like the difference be
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Still I disagree with some of the rationale you present to get your point across, and your implying people wouldn't get the "heart" or the "soul" in things. The difference is not at all like the one between that "refrigerator art" and "stuff out of a clipart catalog". It is not even like the difference between the original "refrigerator art" and a good reproduction of it. A book is no original, it is just one of many copies (signed books excepted).
Fair point, and I don't disagree.
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I think those people never developed the association of the sensual aspect of books to the literary aspects of books. For me, books mean "a rainy day sitting in the bay window reading Lord of the Rings while Mom makes hot cocoa in the kitchen." Hearing the pages as they turn. Feeling that incredible sense of disappointment when you realize that the width of pages read has greatly exceeded the width of pages unread. Looking at shelf after shelf in my house covered with old friends. Knowing that the more
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Feeling that incredible sense of disappointment when you realize that the width of pages read has greatly exceeded the width of pages unread.
^^^^^THIS :(
Yes, I've been there many times, to the point where I slow down so the story lasts a little longer.
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Your argument boils down to: "I don't care if CDs are objectively better, vinyl sounds warmer"
No, he isn't saying that the story is better on paper, he's saying he likes books as physical things and that adds to his enjoyment when reading. Which is also quite true of vinyl.
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Some of us grew up staring at screens, and/or own e-Ink readers.
Your argument against e-books is similar to saying "that's not real life, it's only IRC." Just like there's real humans on the other end of that service, there are real books on the other end of my reader. Because what's relevant about a book isn't the paper, unless you're trying to roll a joint with a hotel bible. It's the content.
I can get just as lost in a good book on my nook as I can with a "real" paper book. And if I have a DRM-free copy,
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They're deeply satisfying. Staring at a screen is not.
Must be an incredibly boring book for your satisfaction of the story to be based on the looks of the words.
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They're deeply satisfying. Staring at a screen is not.
I read Douglas Adams' HGTTG series in omnibus format because it was affordable. I wouldn't call a large heavy paperback deeply satisfying to look at and hold. I'd much rather have had it on Kindle if Kindles existed back then, and I don't know where that book currently is but I do know where my Kindle is. I'd also say that the Kindle is the only reason I was able to finish The Stand, because I always had it with me for short bursts when it was on the drawn out portions (wish King had just updated the refere
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Drop that tablet off of a tablet a couple of times. Now drop a book. Which one is still readable?
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Neither, because they're both in a language I can't read.
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My Nook is in a case, it's just fine thanks.
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I've dropped my nook several times. It still works. It actually works better than when I got it, since I've made software modifications.
Granted, I've had to replace the battery. But the battery is cheap, and I can read the books on other devices as well.
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"too heavy"? Wow. That's sad.
I can carry 100,000 books in one hand. I refer to them and read them. All of them are always within reach. Because they're on my tablet. It's the exact opposite of sad.
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Holy shit, that's depressing. I don't know how people live like that. No books? "too heavy"? Wow. That's sad.
Some people like stories and words more than smell and weight. Incidentally I also gave up on CDs when MP3 players came out. Is it depressing to no longer have to go change discs? I don't know.
Personally I will happily not buy another non-picture book (some things just don't look the same on a kindle). ... And we're quickly running out of space.
Personally my other half despite having a kindle still gets about 5 new paperback books every week.
Re: We have tablets (Score:2)
What you call sad others call practical.
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Funny thing about a book, it doesn't have alerts coming on telling I've got an IM, email or any of the other crap that electronic devices throw at us. An additional bonus is that it doesn't require recharging.