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Elon Musk Says Tesla Will 'One Day' Produce 'Super Efficient Home HVAC' With HEPA Filtering (techcrunch.com) 85

Posted by BeauHD from the perfect-for-wildfire-season dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Elon Musk has previously touted the "Bioweapon Defense Mode" boasted by Tesla's vehicles, which are designed to provide excellent air quality inside the car even in the face of disastrous conditions without, thanks in part to high-efficiency HEPA air filtration. Now, Musk has said on Twitter that he hopes to one day provide similar air filtration along with home HVAC systems.

Tesla, while primarily an automaker, is also already in the business of home energy and power generation, thanks to its acquisition of SolarCity, its current production of solar roofing products and its business building Tesla batteries for storage of power generated from green sources at home. While it hasn't yet seemed to make any moves to enter into any other parts of home building or infrastructure, HVAC systems actually would be a logical extension of its business, since they represent a significant part of the overall energy consumption of a home, depending on its heating and cooling sources. Boosting home HVAC efficiency would have the added benefit of making Tesla's other home energy products more appealing to consumers, since it would presumably help make it easier to achieve true off-grid (or near off-grid) self-sufficiency.
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Elon Musk Says Tesla Will 'One Day' Produce 'Super Efficient Home HVAC' With HEPA Filtering More

Elon Musk Says Tesla Will 'One Day' Produce 'Super Efficient Home HVAC' With HEPA Filtering

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  • We all know the next step after that! (Score:3)

    by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Saturday September 12, 2020 @08:18AM (#60498822)

    With The Boring Company, the next step is obviously Tesla Bunkers.

    • Actually pumping heat/cold into the ground for later use is a huge thing, due to low thermal conductivity of dirt. You can actually store winter cold for use later in summer with right system.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]

      • Actually pumping heat/cold into the ground for later use is a huge thing, due to low thermal conductivity of dirt. You can actually store winter cold for use later in summer with right system.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]

        Um... Not really pumping heat/cold into the ground to store it... Just using the massive heat sink that the earth's crust is to be more efficient. The thing is that the temperature gradient between underground temperature and room temperature is nearly a constant year-round and is usually less than the outside air to inside air gradient. That makes the pumping of heat more efficiently than a system using outside air.

        So you are not storing anything really, just using the massive heat sink.

  • Let's clean up the environment instead (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Saturday September 12, 2020 @08:18AM (#60498824)
    This is a huge problem:

    An estimated 4.2 million premature deaths globally are linked to ambient air pollution, mainly from heart disease, stroke, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, lung cancer, and acute respiratory infections in children. Worldwide ambient air pollution accounts for: 29% of all deaths and disease from lung cancer.

    However, it seems like limiting this pollution at its sources (energy production, cars...) would be far preferable to trashing the environment and forever sheltering indoors with filtered air (for those wealthy enough to get it).

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Agreed, and HVAC with HEPA filters already exist.

      There is nothing special about the Tesla "bioweapon defence" mode. It's literally just a standard HEPA filter and a button that turns the fans on to maximum.

      • >"Agreed, and HVAC with HEPA filters already exist."

        That was my take, too. What is so new and different about HEPA filters? I already have that in my HVAC, along with a variable fan, variable compressor, and smart thermostat. The fan runs on low speed 24/7 when not in higher speeds for cooling or heating.

        Unless he has some new type of filter material that is cheaper, lasts longer, or is as effective but with less resistance, this is a nothing-burger.

        • "Unless he has some new type of filter material that is cheaper, lasts longer, or is as effective but with less resistance, this is a nothing-burger."

          Didn't you tell us exactly the same thing about his cars and his rockets?

          • >"Didn't you tell us exactly the same thing about his cars and his rockets?"

            Nope. I have never made any comments on his rockets. And I have been watching his cars carefully and with great interest since the very first Tesla Roadster. My next car might be an S. The only thing that would hold me back would be the price, service availability, and maybe the spyware.

      • This whole story is apparently based on the following tweet: [twitter.com]

        We will make super efficient home hvac with hepa filters one day

        That's it. OK..

    • Less people = less environmental degradation.

      Maybe he can sell a gun that shoots contraceptive darts, too.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      Except it's easier and more profitable to offer an expensive band-aid to people who can afford it.

    • It is being cleaned up. And has been for over half a century. Filters have gotten better, cars are cleaner, we've switched from coal to gas or electric for cooking and heating, and so on. Air pollution has dropped by quite a bit during that period, and it is still dropping in many places. However, even the low concentrations we have now are still dangerous, and the impact for a long time was somewhat underestimated. Cleaning up that last bit is in progress... it is also a long, hard and very expensive

    • If he made an ultra compact rig to drill direct burial geothermal pipes, there are millions of townhomes that would open up to geothermal... this would also require changes in boundary distance regulations.

      Tackling that would be niche, but he'd have a sale here.

  • Iâ(TM)ve heard from more than one doctor that allergies have become worse these days due to the body NOT being exposed to various environmental contaminats and therefore not building up a tolerance.

    If true, what would a generation of kid suffer after being raised in homes with ultra pure air?

  • HVAC efficiency (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Elfich47 ( 703900 ) on Saturday September 12, 2020 @08:40AM (#60498864)
    I think Elon is going to find disrupting the HVAC industry is considerably more difficult than the auto industry. Elon had an "easy in" with the auto industry because no one had filled the electric car segment. All of the auto manufacturers have looked at Elon's money losing venture. And lets be truthful, it has only recently started to break even, but its quality of manufacture in comparison to the established car manufacturers still has a ways to go (and they still have a fascination with touchscreens which have no place in the cockpit of a car).

    The HVAC industry is very competitive and has been undergoing horizontal and vertical consolidation in the recent years in order to improve efficiency across the board.

    Unless Elon comes out with a brand new whiz-bang air conditioning technology (and believe me, there are many many companies working that angle) that significantly improves the efficiency of cooling air to the point where water condenses out of the air, I expect that Elon trying to break into that market is going to be significantly harder.
    • He's going to need a "crack" team of HVAC installation guys, for one thing.
    • HVAC is already a solved, known issue where better = more air resistance = more energy and noise and blockages. Per sawdust mills aka where Dyson flogged the centrifugal force concept, all you can do is gang stages or add electrostatic pre filtering and self cleaning. The Japanese have nailed air ionisers/filters for the house. Musk needs to re-invent a roomba like cleaning snake to clean dirty HVAC air ducts, and maybe some solar heat exchanger mass better than aluminum fins.

      • Per sawdust mills aka where Dyson flogged the centrifugal force concept

        I was under the impression that cyclone filters in saw mills and workshops were already a thing long before Dyson "invented" it. Same for the bladeless fan and airblade hand dryer, I might add, he didn't invent those either, merely improved upon them and marketed the crap out of them.

    • "Unless Elon comes out with a brand new whiz-bang air conditioning technology (and believe me, there are many many companies working that angle) that significantly improves the efficiency of cooling air to the point where water condenses out of the air, I expect that Elon trying to break into that market is going to be significantly harder."

      The guy builds rockets that land again where they started or on a moving ship, don't you think that was hard too?

      Not to mention that he launched already more satellites

      • Launching statelites is no more than rocket science. But get profit out of these satellites is another story.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hey! ( 33014 )

        But that wasn't an idea that nobody had had before. It was the way rocket ships worked in science fiction all the way back to the 1920s. McDonnell Douglas had a demonstrator (DC-X) back in the 1990s, but it never went anywhere because funding ran out after sixty million (about a hundred million in today's terms).

        The trick in technology isn't having a good idea, it's knowing when the time is right to put money into an idea that's already floating around. Timing was Steve Jobs' superpower; he never *invent

      • "Unless Elon comes out with a brand new whiz-bang air conditioning technology (and believe me, there are many many companies working that angle) that significantly improves the efficiency of cooling air to the point where water condenses out of the air, I expect that Elon trying to break into that market is going to be significantly harder."

        The guy builds rockets that land again where they started or on a moving ship, don't you think that was hard too?

        Not to mention that he launched already more satellites this year than NASA and ESA combined for the last 10 years.

        There is the pesky problem with the laws of thermodynamics and how they apply to HVAC systems. It would be very nice if Musk could break a couple of those laws, but somehow I don't think he can, even with the full force of his personality.

        HVAC systems are pretty much bumping into the theoretical maximum efficiency you can have now. There may be some improvements in compressors and heat exchangers to be had out there, but I seriously doubt any real breakthrough technologies remain in the industry. The eff

    • Maybe his intent is not to make the NVAC units themselves but just filters.

    • touchscreens which have no place in the cockpit of a car

      They do have a place, just not everywhere. A touchscreen is great for a map, or for saving a driver specific profile, or how long the headlights should stay on after the lock button is pressed, or following distance for smart cruise control....all those sorts of things that you would fool with while sitting parked.

      For things that need to be accessed while driving of course they are a poor choice. The volume on the radio should be an actual physical knob with no detents or up/down buttons on the wheel. T

    • if he uses HC refrigerants [refrigeranthq.com] instead of the CFC and HCFC currently used in the USA he would have a large advantage in cost, efficiency, and being more friendly to the environment, which would give him a "in" to the market, albeit not a huge one considering that other companies already use them but one I'm sure he could exploit to his advantage.

      • if he uses HC refrigerants instead of the CFC and HCFC currently used in the USA he would have a large advantage in cost, efficiency, and being more friendly to the environment, ...

        There are some problems with HC refrigerants.

        The biggest one is, if you have a leak in the system, your house explodes.

        As for "friendly to the environment", a lot of them are greenhouse gasses. And they're gasses that are NOT already in the atmosphere in quantity, so their absorption lines are open. The effect of greenhouse gas

    • The HVAC industry is very competitive and has been undergoing horizontal and vertical consolidation in the recent years in order to improve efficiency across the board.

      HVAC has a LOT of room for improvement.

      For one thing, while more efficient solutions are available for new construction, they're often not employed - because they're more expensive and developers cut costs wherever possible to improve their profit margins. The cost of operation of HVAC doesn't directly affect the developer while the cost of

  • Here's a no brainer... Have the boring company work on reducing the costs of drilling the holes for geothermal systems.

  • High-efficiency HEPA (Score:3)

    by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Saturday September 12, 2020 @09:43AM (#60499030)

    From the Department of Redundancy Dept

    • From the Department of Redundancy Dept

      In name only.

      The High Efficiency in the acronym HEPA is about the percentage of particulate matter it captures. Doing HEPA-level filtering with less ENERGY spent pushing air through the device (or whatever) gives you a whole 'nother aspect to be Highly Efficient about.

  • The control of most HVAC systems is still pretty crude. A thermostat turns the heating or cooling on or off. There might be two stages to the compressor, but that's it. With electronically commutated motors on all the compressors, fans and pumps, huge gains in efficiency are theoretically possible if you optimized the speed of and power going to each and also optimized cooling vs. dehumidification, etc. You could integrate HVAC with hot water and perhaps even refrigeration for additional energy savings.

    • The control of most HVAC systems is still pretty crude. A thermostat turns the heating or cooling on or off.

      No joke, many commercial and private properties can only do one at a time. I live in a climate with temperature swings of 30 or even 50+ degrees F in a single day, and yet a thermostat able to run the A/C when it’s hot, but then switch to heating when it’s cold without a human flipping a switch is almost unheard of. Only in the last 5 years or so has any headway on this trivial problem (in many cases) been made. Why can’t we have a dead band of acceptable temperatures and turn on the a

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Meh. I have a relatively inexpensive programmable thermostat that I bought at either Lowes or Home Depot about 15 years ago that has an "Auto" mode that switches automatically between heat and cooling. One of the churches I attended as a kid had one back in the early 1990s.

        The technology isn't new; what's new is that people are starting to care enough to spend the extra money for a more capable thermostat instead of just automatically slapping in a $15 bimetallic strip. :-)

        • I looked for a new one last year, Home Depot, Lowe’s, ace, and menards didn’t have a single one. Had to go online to buy one.

    • The control of most HVAC systems is still pretty crude.

      I think when Nest came into the market that all changed. It is hard to describe how outraged I was that those guys managed to build a company with a >$1B market cap by basically re-engineering then over-engineering a fricking thermostat.

      Prior to that the edge-of-the-art were these Honeywell units that had a dim little monochrome display supported by a flickering backlight (powered from the furnace control board) and an incomprehensible user interface with squishy buttons you could never tell if you ac

      • These newer thermostats have been around for awhile. My carrier unit (2 stage) uses a thermostat using RS-232ish signaling to talk to the outside and upstairs unit. As a result, it can show RPM of the blower, static pressure, and a few other nuggets. The outside unit gets coil temp and some other housekeeping. Nest really can't do that as the messaging is integral to the manufacturer. I suspect your lennox can too. On the carrier, you press and hold the "Service" button for 20 seconds or so. It changes colo

  • tesla techs only and drm locked Filters!

  • I was once involved in a project to install air quality sensors throughout the city. From the experts I learnt that in 90% of cases the indoor air is actually of much worse quality. Partially because inreasingly well insulated homes aren't ventilated often enough. So if you want to create a well insulated, ecological home (which Musk's target audience does), then having a system like this makes sense.

    There already is a huge market for air filtering products in China, where some cities have very high levels

  • at Telsa during the Pandemic while his own net worth has gone up billions.
    • Oh, and this is not Off Topic. When Musk does "announcements" like this he's just looking for attention. I'm giving him that attention. Just not in the way he wants it.

    • A friendly reminder that Musk's net worth is completely temporal which bounces around with the stock market and not remotely a reflection of how much cash he has in his bank account. Most rich people's "net worth" isn't remotely liquid.

      A far better comparison for wages would be to how much of a highly profitable company Tesla has been. oh... wait... that wouldn't fit your whinging narrative would it.

  • Musk just demonstrates (again) that he does not understand engineering or what he is talking about. Sure, you could put such filters into a Tesla. To keep them effective they would then have to be changed every few days. Hence completely impractical.

  • OMG, a HEPA filter?
    • Ridiculous too.... overclean environment has been linked to a host of autoimmune disorders.

    • HEPA filters are easy. HEPA filters that don't need frequent replacement, not so much. You can get a year or three out of a residential filter - but shrink that down to fit in a car, and run it with the purity of air you get in traffic... I don't know how long it'll last, but I'm not optimistic.

  • Because we already HAVE those.
    They're ridiculously efficient. You don't use regular HVAC duct, you just need space for the refrigerant lines. And all the heating and cooling is taken care of by air handlers in the main common spaces and bedrooms. As it's just a heat exchanger, it's power efficient, space efficient, and if you use HEPA filters, quite clean.

    You then handle the home's fresh air needs with a fresh air system, ERV/HRV and a humidifier/dehumidifier. Again, HEPA filtered.

  • First, is this a big story? No, it's nothing new. Someone was talking about air quality on Twitter, saying he was grateful his car has a HEPA filter and he wished his house did. Elon Must then spent 20 seconds writing a Twitter response saying "someday Tesla will sell something like that" and then a click-hungry web site ginned up a whole news story about it. Ugh.

    Will Tesla ever sell home HVAC? Seems inevitable but I don't know when they will have time to get around to it.

    Elon Musk is a big believer in

  • I'm not being funny here. I can go to the shop and get a good indoor air purifier with a HEPA filter for a couple of hundred $. Why would we need a revolution to build this into AC units?

  • Article says that its do to their "high-efficiency HEPA filtration"

    but HEPA itself stands for "High Efficiency Particulate Air" so the article is really saying...

    "High-efficiency High Efficiency Particular Air filter" which is fucking retarded.

  • We're biological based. We're meant to live in the outdoors. Subjected to pollen, bacteria, viruses, bee stings... poop, etc. If we're not subjected to that stuff then our bodies can't handle it and may look towards protecting the body from the body itself.

    Less filtering. More dirt.

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