Gig Economy Company Launches Uber, But For Evicting People (vice.com) 244
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: SINCE COVID-19 MANY AMERICANS FELL BEHIND IN ALL ASPECTS," reads the website copy. The button below this statement is not for a GoFundMe, or a petition for calling for rent relief. Instead, it is the following call to action, from a company called Civvl: "Be hired as eviction crew." During a time of great economic and general hardship, Civvl aims to be, essentially, Uber, but for evicting people. Seizing on a pandemic-driven nosedive in employment and huge uptick in number-of-people-who-can't-pay-their-rent, Civvl aims to make it easy for landlords to hire process servers and eviction agents as gig workers.
Civvl aims to marry the gig economy with the devastation of a pandemic, complete with signature gig startup language like "be your own boss," and "flexible hours," and "looking for self-motivated individuals with positive attitudes:" "FASTEST GROWING MONEY MAKING GIG DUE TO COVID-19," its website says. "Literally thousands of process servers are needed in the coming months due courts being backed up in judgements that needs to be served to defendants." The company, at first glance, appears to be some kind of _Nathan For You-_esque prank: siccing precarious gig jobs onto vulnerable people. But Civvl is connected to a larger -- and real -- gig economy company called OnQall, which describes itself as an app that provides "on-demand task services to non-urban communities beyond main city areas." OnQall is the developer behind other, more believable TaskRabbit-esque apps, like LawnFixr, CleanQwik, and MoveQwik. Given the fact that Civvl is advertising all over the country and that OnQall, though not popular, does exist, it seems as though Civvl actually is an attempt to simplify the process of evicting people who cannot pay their rent during a pandemic.
Civvl aims to marry the gig economy with the devastation of a pandemic, complete with signature gig startup language like "be your own boss," and "flexible hours," and "looking for self-motivated individuals with positive attitudes:" "FASTEST GROWING MONEY MAKING GIG DUE TO COVID-19," its website says. "Literally thousands of process servers are needed in the coming months due courts being backed up in judgements that needs to be served to defendants." The company, at first glance, appears to be some kind of _Nathan For You-_esque prank: siccing precarious gig jobs onto vulnerable people. But Civvl is connected to a larger -- and real -- gig economy company called OnQall, which describes itself as an app that provides "on-demand task services to non-urban communities beyond main city areas." OnQall is the developer behind other, more believable TaskRabbit-esque apps, like LawnFixr, CleanQwik, and MoveQwik. Given the fact that Civvl is advertising all over the country and that OnQall, though not popular, does exist, it seems as though Civvl actually is an attempt to simplify the process of evicting people who cannot pay their rent during a pandemic.
Be your own boss? (Score:5, Insightful)
More like "be your own asshole". Your government fucked up the handling of the pandemic? Get paid to kick people who are already down and throw them in the fucking streets!
Re:Be your own boss? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, this...
This is pretty much the most dystopian manifestation of the "gig economy" that Lex Luthor could dream up
Lex Luthor wasn't that evil (Score:5, Insightful)
This? This is grotesque. This is also very likely an attempt to distance companies from the goons they hire as enforcers. It has a *lot* of terrifying implications. Eventually there's going to be a shoot out between one of these "gig" workers and their victim, and the company will be blameless because they don't have any employees.
It's too late to stop this sort of abuse in motion. We need to start voting people into office who will ban it. They _will_ come for you eventually.
Re:Lex Luthor wasn't that evil (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also kind of recursive like GNU. When you get evicted, you receive an invitation to join the forces to evict other people until there is nobody else to evict. It thus becomes some kind of ponzi scheme as well.
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It's also kind of recursive like GNU. When you get evicted, you receive an invitation to join the forces to evict other people until there is nobody else to evict. It thus becomes some kind of ponzi scheme as well.
You mean like "Repo Men" ?
Re:Lex Luthor wasn't that evil (Score:5, Funny)
Miracle Max: Move out, or I'll call the Eviction Squad!
Fezzik: I'm on the Eviction Squad.
Miracle Max, looking up: You _are_ the Eviction Squad!
.
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We need to start voting people into office who will ban it.
That ship has sailed. No-one who would see this as bad is going to get any sort of power in the United States.
If the working class ever get any sort of class consciousness there is going to be blood in the streets.
Perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
I have an acquaintance who inherited his family's house. He rented it out and lives in an apartment closer to where he works. After COVID, he got laid off, so he's trying to evict the people living in his house (who stopped paying rent *before* COVID hit) as he doesn't need, and can't afford, his apartment anymore.
So who is in the wrong here? Would he be the asshole for paying someone to evict deadbeat tenants who are living in his own house?
Re:Perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
Evictions are sometimes necessary. I don't object to them when the economics require it. But it's the gig economy aspect that bothers me -- Uber has tried to wash its hands of any liability arising from driving... eviction carries even more liability problems... trying to separate the profit side from the responsibility side in evictions makes me concerned. I'd want to see a lot of regulations around this -- and a clear law that declares any such contractors are formally employees of the eviction company.
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I am also thinking back... serving eviction paperwork is one of the more dangerous assignments for officer.. which means such gigs are likely to incl
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Well, the people ordering the evictions will probably often not care much whether the old tenants get thrown out in the streets as they were or in body-bags. And the occasional evicter getting shot? Not a problem either, this is gig-work and many more are dying to do it.
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Re:Perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
Special, non-representative case is special, non-representative case.
who is in the wrong? (Score:3)
Easily answered. I say it's the governments. If they had seen the covid-19 crisis properly, then the initial response should have included rent and mortgage holidays, as well as a freeze on loan repayments. Highest priority should have been on keeping the hospitals functioning and the food moving.
Or maybe we'll never have a pandemic worse than this one. Keep your fingers crossed.
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The first and foremost assholes are the legislators who didn't properly pause the economy during the lockdown and who aren't even attempting to gracefully exit from it.
In the case of your acquaintance, it's a bit different since the tenants stopped paying before COVID.
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The economy halted all on it's own. All I'm advocating is that they should have helped those very people who you're complaining didn't get a break.
You seem like one of those conservatives who'd rather saw his own legs off rather than risk someone else getting a break. What I propose sure beats the current situation where the landlords lose their properties to foreclosure, then the banks lose the foreclosed assets due to unwillingness to sell cheaper or even maintain the properties.
The risk is already there,
Re:Be your own boss? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I can't imagine if you're looking for work due to COVID that your first line of recourse is to get a gig booting people from their homes due to COVID. And if you ARE wanting to do that job, you're a big enough bag of dicks you probably should just be upper level management or a politician anyway.
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"Be hired as eviction crew."
This may just be the most 2020 thing that has happened so far in 2020.
OH BOY! Here. We. Go. (Score:4, Insightful)
Goons on demand.
Rent-a-bully.
Flashmob. err wait, that one's already taken...
Civilian swatting.
Police= AWS for thugs (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Police= AWS for thugs (Score:2)
Re:Police= AWS for thugs (Score:5, Funny)
THUGS would make a good GNU-like recursive acronym.
Thugs:
Hired
Uber-like
Goon
Squad
Re: Police= AWS for thugs (Score:3)
Well, if you can afford it, who wouldn't want their own Brute Squad?
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Caesar perhaps?
Re: Police= AWS for thugs (Score:3)
Yes of course that's where police came from, because there was no crime, no desire to protect lives and property.
Yes, of COURSE the police were rental thugs.
Re:Be your own boss? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course not. They think all landlords are rich 1%ers that don't have to pay property taxes or even a bank.
I imagine people will start listing their properties before they have to foreclose on them. Not sure what happens to freeloaders when the property is sold. The new owners might be stuck with them until the state says you can evict again. In California that's February 1st. You are expected to pay a full months rent on Feb 1. California has this nice little 25% a month from now until Feb 1st.
Pretty fucked for property management companies and small time landlords. All the ones I know also work a fulltime job and can't afford to float a property for another 6 months with no income out of the property. Let's not even get started on property taxes. I don't hear the state offering to waive anyone's property taxes due to covid.
Re:Be your own boss? (Score:4, Insightful)
The object lesson here is that if you can't afford the possible expected losses that you sometimes take from being a landlord, don't become a landlord. For example, if there's a fire that destroys the home, you could end up with a loss of income for a year or more and possibly have to pay 20-25% of the rebuilding cost out of pocket while not making any income off of it. If you can't absorb that, sell the house instead of renting it. Covid has added unexpected expenses to landlords, but they're not unique in this shit show. A lot of people are getting screwed due to the pandemic and landlords don't get a free pass just because their landlords.
Re:Be your own boss? (Score:4)
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The pandemic situation did not create thousands of freeloading squatters, it created regular people who are suddenly unable to pay their rent but would gladly pay it if they were able to.
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Wait wait wait, the landlord who has to let freeloading squatters
I think you misspelled "ordinary people who have suddenly been left jobless as a result of this incompetent president's ignorance and inaction".
Easy way to make money (Score:5, Funny)
If you are being evicted, hire on to this company so they will literally pay you to evict yourself! Then you can be sure your stuff will be well cared for as they move it out for you, while you are being paid.
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I thought this is currently illegal in the USA (Score:4, Informative)
Many states have moratoriums in place on evictions due to COVID-19, and I believe a federal executive order on stopping evictions combined with emergency grants for landlords and mortgage holders went into effect recently.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-working-stop-evictions-protect-americans-homes-covid-19-pandemic/ [whitehouse.gov]
Seems like a really BAD time to launch such a business. Maybe they should hold off and wait for 2021.
That's only because it's an election year (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, rent's still due even if there's a moratorium. And as soon as the FDA can no longer declare an emergency it all comes due at once.
Because he can't. (Score:3, Insightful)
As of right now Trump hasn't actually done anything (note the article says he's "working" to stop evictions, not that he stopped them), ...
That's because he can't.
Mortgages and evictions are under state jurisdiction and state law. Fed intervention requires workarounds, such as:
- Enforcing equal treatment under civil rights law. (As long as they're evicting delinquent mortgage debtors equally, without regard to race, religion, national origin, or previous condition of servitude, that doesn't work.)
Correction (Score:5, Insightful)
The Democrats did not hold renewal hostage. They passed something back in MAY that doesn't even get any time in the Senate which has held up everything until they did a no-go shame bill like a week ago. When one side already made a concrete offer and the other won't even consider it, how can the side who does NOTHING be the hostage?
Also, it is the senate and Trump who have made extreme demands; the Democrats are willing to cave on their stuff like they USUALLY do; but they are mostly just asking for more money to prop up the system while the other side wants 100% immunity from employers who kill people if they are incompetent, neglectful or sociopaths. They had some poison pills in that crap last week as well. Furthermore, they want far far less money in the 1st place.... they can only give money to lobbyists not to Americans. Hell, they almost didn't get the last one that passed because some Senators didn't want any $$$ going to retired people.
Oh, yes, don't forget about fucking over the USPS being an issue.
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Thank you for saving me the time to write this.
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I believe a federal executive order on stopping evictions combined with emergency grants for landlords and mortgage holders went into effect recently.
As a landlord (aka housing provider) I know of no such provisions or support.
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That said, it probably wouldn't hold up in court, and your tenants likely don't have the money to challenge you if you tried to evict them. Most Sheriffs would ignore the CDC.
Re:I thought this is currently illegal in the USA (Score:5, Insightful)
This is also a part of the grown industry for evictions! That is: evict illegally, then apologize later by saying "it was just gig workers, they didn't know what they were doing, we promise to train them better in the future." This sort of stuff happens a lot; in the middle of legal procedings to save a historic building, someone will accidentally demolish it; or when negotiating about a set of sacred caves in Australia the bulldozers accidentally come in. The person giving the order denies giving the order, the guys with the heavy equipment are the fall guys but they still get paid so they're winners too. The mob style of dealing with legal conflicts...
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Laws like this have to be enforced, and have to have enough of a downside so that people actually have an incentive to obey them. It is like the robo foreclosures of the past. Al
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Seems like a really BAD time to launch such a business. Maybe they should hold off and wait for 2021.
The new White House protections don't prevent all evictions, so a service like this probably also intends to help landlords find the loopholes. Maybe some of the work is for investigating if tenants are violating a no pet policy or are being noisy at 9pm. There are plenty of reasons to evict someone other than lack of payment.
Either way, there will be some eviction work in 2020, and some people may want to build their reputation scores waiting for the floodgates to open. Unless Congress actually pay for ren
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This can only last just so long....
You're going to have the actual home OWNERS starting to lose their property due to not being able to pay the mortgage due to having renters living there not paying rent.
At some point, the log jam will have to open up.
Hence, we have to accept some risk
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Keep in mind that the US has a very DIY legal system, so people who can afford to hire private evictors are going to be able to afford more law than people bein evicted. Just because something is illegal
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Devils advocate. How is this 'moratorium' not a violation of the 5th amendment's Takings Clause?
Plus mortgages, property maintenance and HOA fees still have to be paid. For many landlords the rental income pays for this. The banks and HOAs aren't going to just eat it? What happens if during the moratorium the plumbing breaks or fridge goes out? Is the landlord still expected to fix this with no rental income to pay for it?
This is not a simple issue.
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Devils advocate. How is this 'moratorium' not a violation of the 5th amendment's Takings Clause?
IMHO it is. Which means the landlords can bill the fed for the rent and sue them if they don't fork over.
Or the landlords can just go ahead with the evictions (if the state goes along with them) and let the fed try to sue them.
Note that the first relief act banned evictions from housing where the landlord had taken federal money AND appropriated money to pay for it. But that expired and the Ds won't agree with
The new SWAT gag (Score:2)
You can bet your life on it.
I'm actually OK with this (Score:2)
This of course fails big time for me if landlords find people who can pay the new rates.
Re: I'm actually OK with this (Score:2)
Where are you anticipating they find those people? Except for Amazon I thought most of faang was on a hiring slowdown.
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Landlords are weird sometimes. They'd rather hold rents up on a unit that is unoccupied for 6 months out of the year, than lower the rent slightly less and keep 100% occupancy. It's arguably a minority of owners that are quite so stupid, but most of them do this bad math to some lesser degree.
I know small property owners that will accept partial payments from people who are otherwise in good standing, depending on the circumstances they communicate, rather than go through the process of evicting them then f
Re:I'm actually OK with this (Score:5, Informative)
It isn't if you strictly consider some landlords to be in business, whereas housing is more of a human need.
If you consider renting out a house as a strictly business transaction, then raising rents even unoccupied makes a lot of sense - you consider even full occupancy at rates less than market to be leaving money on the table.
If you consider housing to be more a human need and treat the renter as someone going through life, the outlook changes. In this case, you are not strictly in it for the money, and can adapt to business conditions as they change. Mass layoffs may mean you want to keep your renters because collecting money while you still can, even if you have to give them a break, is still better than tossing them out on the street and having to potentially make less money because the market rate plummets as no one can afford your property.
Renting out is stressful - new renters come with new headaches (are they good people? Are they there to scam you? Will they pay? etc). Whereas a long term renter who just fallen on hard times recently (like many other people) is a known quantity and rules may be bent because it's better to keep them occupying the property than leave it empty and requiring upkeep (and constant checking for squatters etc).
Property management companies are just in it for money so they tend to be fairly inflexible because of it, while the small time landlord generally is more understanding.
If you want to see some real fun, though, take away any emotional attachment and go into the commercial sector. Most stores are leased or rented to businesses, and naturally with lockdowns and such business is down. Some commercial landords are demanding full rents from businesses who are closed, while others see that times are tough and cut their renters a break.
When you consider how many retail businesses are closing, the situation seems more interesting. First, there's no housing emotion in it, it literally is strictly business. Second, a lot of landlords not giving breaks are hoping that the stores will close and they can jack up the rents on their waiting lists, but those people on the waiting list aren't necessarily going to be biting in these uncertain times. On the other hand, those landlords giving their stores a break are still seeing the stores stay and not close up shop.
This is more interesting if you make it a mall situation, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. If you have retailers closing, it can lead to everyone else closing faster - people stop coming and the remaining stores suffer. Beyond a certain point it becomes really hard to fill vacancies because few retailers want to set up in a dead or dying mall. So the pursuit of money may mean a complete loss as retailers close up permanently, taking shoppers with them.
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Here is the thing.
Humans are greedy. Humans are illogical. Humans base decisions on emotion rather than logic and not all landlords are rational economic majors. Many justify well I PAID X AMOUNT so I NEED Y to make return on my investment and not think it through.
Some are so angry that they got ripped off and paid thousands for lawyers and judges and cops to remove former tennents that they would rather leave it empty unoccupied if it means no deadbeats than put someone in with poor credit and have a repea
Re:I'm actually OK with this (Score:4, Insightful)
Shelter isn't like that (Score:2)
We've let these bastards buy out all the land. Where I am one company owns everything in a 30-40 mile radius. When they finished buying the last block of apartments near me my rent immediately went up 20%.
We need rent control. We also need to stop letting foreign investors buy houses and we need to b
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Everywhere rent control has been implemented caused rents to skyrocket even harder! This is because New York and San Fransisco have more of a shortage as no in hell will give those controlled units up so less supply equals increased demand.
What will happen in your neighborhood is many out of work folks will be homeless. The units will go unrented out. The rents at first will stay high with move in specials. When these do not attract lower application fees. When that fails they will start lowering the rents.
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Sometimes it's an old apartment complex, they can afford to reduce rents if forced. But some people are in a bind, the current rent of their house barely covers the mortgage; both the owner and the renter are out of a job and the mortgage can't be paid, the owner has their own rent or mortgage to pay and can't move back to the original house anymore because of the renter. And lots of stuff in-between. It's a mess and complicated but people and laws tend to treat all rentals the same.
if they show up on your door (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re: if they show up on your door (Score:4, Informative)
That doesn't jive with the fact that 10 of the 13 cities that have defunded lie in states that have eviction moratoriums. And contrary to the how it sounds, most of the cities that "defunded" only made modest budget cuts.
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Re: if they show up on your door (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem with that ven diagram is the places with the most evictions and places where police departments have been defunded have significant overlap.
That's bullshit. No police departments have been "defunded" as a result of protests, because they operate on a budget that is planned a year in advance. The earliest the cuts can take effect is the next fiscal year.
Moreover, the most active protests happened in Portland, Seattle and Oakland and all these cities have moratoriums on evictions. I think actually all three states have moratoriums, but I'm too lazy to check.
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Don't call the cops to come into the house -- call the cops to clear off the front porch.
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Re: if they show up on your door (Score:2)
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Re: if they show up on your door (Score:2)
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If you haven't been notified of an eviction proceeding against you, there is a very high chance that these are burglars.
Er, no. If you're home when they try to steal from you, it's a home invasion robbery. A far more serious felony.
In California, if there's no court order and a LEO to serve it, it's not legit. And California has one of the strongest home defense laws in the US. If they try to force they way in, just kill them.
Best of humanity (Score:3)
These folks are the best of humanity. Always another reason to stick it to your fellow man.
If you were a landlord and had the unfortunate situation where you need to evict someone, would you trust a service like this? I sure would not not trust this, I'd expect that they get the landlord in hot water for hiring untrained assholes that did something incorrectly/against the law.
Grapes of Wrath (Score:3)
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Looking for gig workers (Score:3)
When Injustice is Law, Revolution is Nessary (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:When Injustice is Law, Revolution is Nessary (Score:4, Insightful)
"When injustice is Law, Resistance in Duty". There is so much injustice now, Revolution is Nessary
So the landlords can claim injustice also, what if they "resist" by harming tenants?
Calling for violence is always a bad call, because it justifies violence on both sides.
Also can't help but notice how you twisted "Resistance" from the original quote" into "Revolution".
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and you can work as bounty hunter at the same time (Score:2)
and you can work as bounty hunter at the same time. and the laws that limit what cops can do don't apply!
How far we have fallen! (Score:5, Interesting)
It used to be that when predatory bankers forced a farmer into bankruptcy, then moved in to foreclose on his farm, his neighbours would come together as his property was auctioned off and offer bids of only pennies. Anyone willing to bid higher was "invited to leave", sometimes at the business end of a shotgun. Whoever won the auction would then sell the farmer's property back to him for the few dollars it cost to buy.
Look at us now. Gig economy workers, who aren't exactly millionaires, are being recruited for the ugly, soul-sucking job of helping to throw their desperate neighbours out on the street.
Somebody needs to be horsewhipped in the town square for this. Seriously, how much is it going to take for people to realize that the reason most of America can't afford to miss a single paycheque isn't poor people or immigrants or "welfare queens" stealing your chance to make it big. It's billionaires, mostly in the financial sector, who are sucking America dry. When there's not one drop of blood left in the desiccated corpse of Uncle Sam, Wall Street bankers will move on to their next victim without even a backward glance at the devastated wreckage they are leaving behind.
Re: How far we have fallen! (Score:4, Funny)
I'll tell you a story about a coworker of mine (Score:2)
Evil landlords are people too. Not all tenants a
How many are evicting so they’re not evicted (Score:2)
"Thugs-for-hire" (Score:2)
Isn't this sort of thing normally done by local law enforcement? I see nothing good coming from randos being hired on a piecemeal basis to oust people from where they live. I see laws being broken and civil rights violated in the process, if not outright violence.
If this comes to my town... (Score:2)
...I will probably actually be in prison for murder soon.
I'm not even in danger of being evicted, I've just had enough of tolerating demons in my fucking country. I will kill them.
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I'm serious. I'm fucking serious.
Anyone in my town gets involved in this, I'm coming after them with a tire iron and a knife and if they don't kill me first I will make them BEG to die.
Ban me, I don't give a fuck. I can't take one more second of watching America do this. They'll die or I'll die trying to kill them.
Re: Vest and carry? (Score:3)
There are people out there who relish a fight. They would wear a vest or at least come strapped with the belief that they are a hardass, that they are going to win any potential gunfight.
Notice that this sort of 'rambo' mentality is present more often in less trained and experienced warriors. Actual navy seals would probably bring their buddies and plan an assault that doesn't give the occupants an opportunity to shoot.
Anyways most likely these 'gig eviction' muscle can work this gig even if they have a c
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I would think actual navy seals would come openly and very politely, because they realize these are poor sods that are just about to have their lives get much worse. Then, if they get threatened with guns, they would still politely withdraw and hand the matter over to law enforcement. Note: Trained professionals _avoid_ a fight, because they know it can go either way, no matter how much better trained and equipped you are.
Re: Vest and carry? (Score:2)
Yeah. My point is the last thing to do is go up to someones door with a holstered gun, but by yourself, and threaten the homeowner.
Even if you are a retired government super soldier (a former navy seal) the other side has to get lucky just once
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Very much so, yes.
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And until you fucking get that, you wont ever have a proper internal model of people.
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Cheaper? Nobody will rent to people who don't have a current job due to COVID.
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Yang made this same suggestion when asked if his UBI would cause inflation in housing costs.
Do you have a reference for this? I'm actually a little surprised Yang would say something so stupid.
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Thanks for sharing the link.
Yang is answering "what if there are no reasonable landlords", and in the hypothetical example, he talks of 3 people who each have absolutely nothing except the UBI, and describes that in this situation they would have options. It's a little wonky because it sounds like he's saying purchase a house, but that's not how house purchases work... if only. But to his credit, if those people did not have UBI, they would have $0 between them, and that's a far more hopeless situation. In
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Say again? Couldn't hear you over Smokey Robinson's drums.