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Government The Almighty Buck

America's IRS Wants Cryptocurrency Exchanges Declared on Tax Forms (morningstar.com) 100

America's dreaded tax-collecting agency is sending "a strong warning to millions of crypto holders who aren't complying with the law that they must file required forms," reports the Wall Street Journal. The front page of this year's tax forms — just below "Name" and "Address" — will ask filers to declare whether they've received or exchanged any virtual currencies.

The Journal calls it "setting a trap for cryptocurrency tax cheats." "This placement is unprecedented and will make it easier for the IRS to win cases against taxpayers who check 'No' when they should check 'Yes, '" says Ed Zollars, a CPA with Kaplan Financial Education who updates tax professionals on legal developments... The change to the crypto question and other recent actions show the IRS is taking cryptocurrencies seriously as a threat to the tax system, whether the noncompliance is by enthusiasts who owe little or by sophisticated international criminals. In two recent nontax criminal cases — one involving theft by North Korea and the other involving the sale of child pornography by a Dutch national — the IRS has provided key assistance because of its growing expertise in cryptocurrencies....

For their part, many crypto users are angry with the IRS's guidance, which treats bitcoin, ether and their kin as property rather than currency. So if a crypto holder uses it to buy something or exchanges one cryptocurrency for another, there's usually a capital gain or loss to report on the tax return. "Buying a sandwich with cryptocurrency shouldn't be a taxable event," says Sean Cover, a New York City cryptocurrency holder who works in finance for a nonprofit group. He says that in 2017 he had more than 500 transactions on several platforms, and it took him 10 hours to prepare his crypto tax forms even though he paid for special software. Like some members of Congress, Mr. Cover supports a $200 threshold before crypto transactions would need to be reported. The IRS says it's up to Congress to change the law....

Meanwhile, the IRS is forging ahead with other crypto compliance measures. Earlier this month, it offered rewards up to $625,000 to code-breakers who can crack so-called privacy coins like Monero that attract illicit activity because they claim to be untraceable... The IRS is also sending a new round of letters to crypto holders who may not have complied with the tax rules, expanding on last year's mailing of about 10,000 letters. Tax specialists say the recipients are often customers of Coinbase, which was ordered by a federal court to turn over information on some accounts to the IRS.

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America's IRS Wants Cryptocurrency Exchanges Declared on Tax Forms

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  • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The government wants to know who owns crypto and which crypto they own so they can confiscate if need be. They have done this in the past with gold and given how much liquidity the Fed is pumping into the economy it is just a matter of time before inflation starts to get out of control.
  • by dicobalt ( 1536225 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:00PM (#60548346)
    I mean let's be honest here, crypto is mostly used for criminal transactions and money laundering. The last thing crypto users want is the IRS keeping track of it.
    • by Rockoon ( 1252108 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:11PM (#60548376)
      Its mostly used by speculators...

      But once you remove that 95% contingent, the rest are trying to avoid records of a transaction leading to them, yes.
    • That is why when I want to launder my money, I get a roll of quarters and go to a laundry mat and launder my money paying CASH!
    • LOL!! There is plenty of money laundering without crypto see the roughly 2 Trillion : https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone... [msn.com]

      Money Laundering and criminal transactions will happen with or without crypto. Right now many of the world banks are a mess because the currencies are failing. So as some countries are doing, they're forcing their people to use only their worthless fiat currencies because fiat represents debt in many cases.

      Crypto typically has a set number you can have. With the USD, the fed can go to th

      • That is a pretty important argument. Most of money laundering is done with all the 'offshore' constructions. That is where the big boys are. Cryptocurrencies is the small stuff. There is a big chasm between the major league money transactions where you see nothing about what is going on , don't understand what is going on when you do see it, and can't do anything about it when you do know it, and the other side where everything is known and there is no freedom to get around it at all. It's the latter where

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Crypto currencies are also a good way to conduct counter intelligence and discover when your covert communications channel has been compromised. You can conduct drug deals or organize terrorist activity and the TLAs will wait patiently until they have enough evidence to make a court case. But just brag to a buddy that you made $10K in unreported income and the IRS will blow years of undercover work by asking you for their cut right away.

  • The government: "We didn't previously know this existed nor do we even understand it, but we deserve your money."
    • Re:Give me (Score:4, Informative)

      by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:40PM (#60548440)

      The rule for federal taxes is income derived from any source. If you buy bitcoin at a low price and sell it at a high price, you have income, just like if sold a stock for a gain. You owe taxes on that gain.

      Also, the IRS doesn't care where you get your money from, so long as you report it. You can even declare money from drug deals [irs.gov] and they're happy.

      • by schwit1 ( 797399 )

        You are REQUIRED to declare money from drug deals.

        This is another way the government gets plea deals. They pile on charges to where going to trial means potentially a 1000 year sentence.

        • by Cederic ( 9623 )

          To be fair it's been case law in the US since 1927 that you have to declare (and pay relevant taxes on) illegal income so if the people of the US disliked that they've had plenty of opportunities to have the law changed.

  • Which it is (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:31PM (#60548420)

    which treats bitcoin, ether and their kin as property rather than currency.

    Considering people were excited when the value of bitcoin rose so they could sell what they had at a profit, and then horrified when the value of bitcoin plunged so they were losing money when selling, it is quite clear bitcoin, ether, etc are property and not currency. You're buying it at one price and selling it at another. No different than buying and selling stock.

  • by davidwr ( 791652 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:40PM (#60548442) Homepage Journal

    Scenario 1:
    I have $1000 in United States currency.
    I use it to buy gold bullion.
    Two months later, after the price of gold has changed, I buy dollars with the gold.
    I use the dollars to buy opera tickets. I enjoy the opera.

    Scenario 2:
    Same as scenario 1 except the opera house takes my gold bullion in payment at a spot-market-price exchange rate. In the end, they get $1000, I get to see an opera, and someone who wants $1000 worth of gold gets it.

    In scenario 1, I have to declare an investment gain or loss on the sale of the gold for dollars.

    What about scenario 2?

    Scenarios 3 and 4 are the same, except instead of buying gold bullion, I bought Canadian currency. In scenario 4, the opera house accepts Canadian currency at the current spot-market exchange rate.

    Philosophically, from one point of view all four scenarios are the same.

    From another point of view, there is a difference between the cases where the opera house demands US dollars and the cases where they don't.

    There is also a point of view where there is a philosophical difference between gold, which is typically considered a commodity, and Canadian currency, which is of course currency.

    Are things like cryptocurrencies more analogous to gold or more analogous to a currency backed by another country's bank or government? That is the question. I don't think we, as a society, have answered that question yet.

    To make things more interesting, what if instead of a free-floating cryptocurrency like BC it is a "stablecoin" that is pegged to something other the US Dollar, such as a coin pegged to the Canadian Dollar or to the spot price of gold on a particular market?

    Of course if it's a USD-pegged stablecoin then the issue is moot as far as the IRS is concerned, since there is no profit or loss in US Dollars to report, save perhaps some trading costs.

    • by j-beda ( 85386 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @07:18PM (#60549170) Homepage

      I think in both cases, the IRS rules are that when you dispose of any asset, you need to recognize the gain (or loss), in US Dollars. It doesn't matter if it is gold, stocks, comic books, or currency (Euro, Canadian dollars, or even Bitcoin).

      If you have a bank account EUR, you are supposed to keep track of the US "cost basis" of those EUR as you acquire and dispose of them. Unless you are moving large amounts, you can probably ignore most transactions and/or use average exchange rates rather than tracking every individual transaction, but in reality you are supposed to track them all.

      The complaint that "bitcoin should be treated like a currency, rather than a property" shows a misunderstanding on how the IRS treats currencies. A currency is treated like a property by the IRS - but because a US dollar is always worth one US dollar, most people do not have to deal with gains or losses when acquiring or disposing of US dollars..

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Could get very messy with the wild fluctuations in the value of Bitcoin. What was worth $10,000 one day may be worth $5,000 a week later.

        • by j-beda ( 85386 )

          Could get very messy with the wild fluctuations in the value of Bitcoin. What was worth $10,000 one day may be worth $5,000 a week later.

          No doubt.

          People trading in "Penny Stocks" face similar volatility and they seem to be able to deal with it.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            How do you calculate it? If it's just the value on the day you file your taxes you would be wide to wait for (or manufacture) a sudden drop. If it's average your tax bill could be more than the value of the assets. Day to day for the whole year perhaps?

            • by j-beda ( 85386 )

              How do you calculate it? If it's just the value on the day you file your taxes you would be wide to wait for (or manufacture) a sudden drop. If it's average your tax bill could be more than the value of the assets. Day to day for the whole year perhaps?

              For most assets like stocks and "regular" currency, the "cost basis" is fixed when the asset is purchased and the gain/loss occurs when it is sold, so the "best" pricing would be the to use the actual US dollar amount spent or received if the asset was bought or sold using USD (taking into account any trading fees which would impact the cost basis). When trading the asset for something other than USD (Canadian Dollars or sandwiches for example) one could use the market price of the asset at that instant, or

    • by drnb ( 2434720 )
      If you trade one asset for another that is a barter transaction and its taxable. You best know the cost basis from when you acquired the asset(s) and the fair market value when you disposed of the asset(s) so that you can calculate and report a capital gain or loss for each individual transaction.
  • I think it should be a much larger number ($50,000) in total transactions within period of time (A week) with an individual reporting of single transactions over $5000.

    I think current reporting requirements sound impractical to the point they are unenforceable.

    An entire ledger of all transactions? For something that calls itself a currency? Sounds like a privacy issue to me. Yes mister tax man I bought some hemorrhoid cream.

    • IRS calls it a security not a currency. I believe there are some kinds of exemptions for commodities that are consumed by a business— you are allowed to trade on them to a small degree without it being taxed as capital gains; the same thing should likely exist for businesses and individuals that are using cryptocurrency as a currency. But, why should cryptocurrency be treated differently than stock transactions?
    • > For something that calls itself a currency?

      Currency has two related purposes. To be a currency, a thing needs to satisfy these two requirements.

      First, right now I'm sitting in front of Little Caesar's pizza and Great Clips. With currency in my pocket, I can go into Little Caesar's and get a pizza, I can get a haircut at Great Clips. That's called "medium of exchange" - the currency is the thing you can generally buy stuff with, and stores sell things priced in $currency.

      Secondly, I he currency is a

      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        Calling a goat an airplane doesn't make it fly.

        No, but while it's loaded in your trebuchet you can call that an aircraft carrier.

  • Slashdot keeps telling me Bitcoins are worth as much as tulips!

  • Didn't you file your tax returns? The question about cryptos is on the 2019 tax returns.
  • So if you have a wallet you can't remember the password for, doesn't that mean you can write off that value since the property is essentially lost?

    Or, if you sell Bitcoin for less than you paid for it, seems like that should be deductible as well as a capital loss...

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • If you lost access to the wallet, you can't prove either way can you? To write it off means you have to prove the values you're writing off. And if you can do that, you have access to the wallet. It's no different than claiming you have a brick of gold on a boat obtained without a record of transaction, and it fell into the Marianas trench. At that point, you have nothing to prove or deny the existence of that asset.

        But you have a record of the transaction. You have a record of every transactions. Its the blockchain. Which also means you know the value. What you may lack is proof of ownership.

    • by j-beda ( 85386 )

      So if you have a wallet you can't remember the password for, doesn't that mean you can write off that value since the property is essentially lost?

      Or, if you sell Bitcoin for less than you paid for it, seems like that should be deductible as well as a capital loss...

      It does, and it is. You should be declaring these sorts of losses just as you should if you lose out on any currency.

      Oh, maybe not for the loss of password. Theft and losses used to be deductible but I think Trump's 2018 tax revamp got rid of that: https://www.freshbooks.com/hub... [freshbooks.com]

      Maybe you could convince someone to buy your wallet for $1 and make the forgetfulness turn into a loss that would be deductible.

      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        Maybe you could convince someone to buy your wallet for $1 and make the forgetfulness turn into a loss that would be deductible.

        While possible, the IRS view may be that this is merely a transfer of tax liability from you to them.

        What would concern me more is the AML and 'gift tax' implications of such a transaction. I'd need to do a lot of research (and probably consult an actual tax professional) before trying something like that.

        • by j-beda ( 85386 )

          Acute Myelogenous Leukemia?

          Oh!

          Anti Money Laundering

          I suppose that might be an issue, but really, it is unlikely you would be doing this frequently, and you should obviously keep documentation of the transactions, so I wouldn't be too concerned unless we are talking about . Unless you are a bank or other financial institution, I think there is nothing prohibiting you from buying or selling any asset to anyone for any price. Well, maybe not - dealing in guns, explosives, or pharmaceuticals is pretty highly re

  • To use the example from the OP, if you buy a sandwich with crypto currency, then eat most of it, then trade the piece of crust for less crypto currency, can you now write off the sandwich as trading loss? A more real example, can you just buy the latest iPhone in January and sell it back in December, resulting in less crypto back in your wallet, therefore a trading loss?

    • by j-beda ( 85386 )

      To use the example from the OP, if you buy a sandwich with crypto currency, then eat most of it, then trade the piece of crust for less crypto currency, can you now write off the sandwich as trading loss? A more real example, can you just buy the latest iPhone in January and sell it back in December, resulting in less crypto back in your wallet, therefore a trading loss?

      No more than you could do the same thing with Euros.

      Each transaction would be valued at the time of the transaction by whatever the then-current exchange rate was. The single bitcoin purchased for $xxx USD was traded on Jan 1 for the sandwich at a value of $yyy. You would owe taxes on the gain of yyy-xxx, and you would be the owner of a sandwich valued at $yyy. If you sell that sandwich for $zzz you now have another gain (or loss) of zzz-yyy. If you ate half the sandwich first, you would need to "pro-rate"

  • Can you say "honeypot"?

  • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Sunday September 27, 2020 @07:19PM (#60549178) Journal
    So this whole thing is just a bunch of people upset that trading an asset is being taxed like trading an asset rather than like transacting in a currency; and they think it should be treated as a currency because the guy who came up with it put "coin" in the name? Did that sound less stupid in someone else's head?

    Next up; Announce sale of shares of "stockcoin", insist that the SEC has no authority here because those are totally a currency rather than a security, man.
  • ... is the monopoly on currency. That's what the state is there for. If the state drops the ball, it needs to be fixed, not worked around. Otherwise you'll end up with a broken system just in some other form.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Because I've never had to report the acquisition of property to the IRS.

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