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Uber is Hiring Hundreds of Engineers in India To Cut Costs (techcrunch.com) 106

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Uber said it is working to hire 225 engineers in India, strengthening its tech team in the key overseas market months after it eliminated thousands of jobs globally. From a report: The move comes as several high-profile engineers have left Uber India in recent months to join Google and Amazon, among other tech giants. A senior engineer who recently left Uber told TechCrunch that many of his peers had lost confidence in Uber's future prospects in the country. [...] In July, news outlet The Information described Uber chief executive Dara Khosrowshahi's plan to move engineering roles to India as a cost-saving measure. The report said Khosrowshahi's plan had sparked internal debates. Thuan Pham, Uber's longtime chief technology officer, who left the company earlier this year, reportedly cautioned that hiring more engineers so quickly in India would "require accepting lower-quality candidates." Further reading: Nearly 70,000 Tech Startup Employees Have Lost Their Jobs Since March (July 2020).
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Uber is Hiring Hundreds of Engineers in India To Cut Costs More

Uber is Hiring Hundreds of Engineers in India To Cut Costs

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  • Because that's what they're gonna get with this move.

  • OK I have to ask. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:21PM (#60615228)

    Just what does Uber need all those engineers for?

    Their apps are developed. They work pretty well. Sure there are always new features to add but a team of 5-10 would be enough for each one. You also need people to tweak new phones that come out. One guy each phone should do it.

    Their data centers seem to be up and running. Needs regular maintenance but they must have those people already.

    What are all these people doing?

    • Yeah I don't get it. I click a button and the deplorables get notified to deliver the stuff to me. What do you need all these engineers for? I mean it is just a button.

    • What are all these people doing?

      Uber is bleeding cash. Their current business model does not work and is unlikely to ever work.

      Their plan, which they have openly stated, is to transition to self-driving cars.

      So that may be what these people will be working on.

      • Re:OK I have to ask. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by aardvarkjoe ( 156801 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:43PM (#60615330)

        Their plan, which they have openly stated, is to transition to self-driving cars.

        So that may be what these people will be working on.

        They'd have to be pretty stupid to think that a couple hundred cut-rate offshore engineers will solve the self-driving problem.

        • They'd have to be pretty stupid to think that a couple hundred cut-rate offshore engineers will solve the self-driving problem.

          There is the core problem of building an SDC. That is 99% solved.

          Then there is the methodical process of dealing with the remaining 1% of corner cases. Much of that is reviewing recordings and finding incidents where the car didn't behave properly. Once a behavior quirk is identified, look for similar incidents, and build out the training set.

          That is grunt work that doesn't require brilliance.

          • Re:OK I have to ask. (Score:4, Interesting)

            by mbkennel ( 97636 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:22PM (#60615870)

            Not true at all. You can't special case the corner cases in any ad-hoc way which will not hurt performance on the rest of the data.

            I work in machine learning---they're trying to solve an extremely difficult problem. To get to acceptable levels of performance, to go from 99% to 99.9999%, requires the most extraordinary efforts and significant brilliance and major, fundamental scientific breakthroughs, as well as tremendously large and well specified data sets.

            • Not true at all. You can't special case the corner cases in any ad-hoc way which will not hurt performance on the rest of the data.

              I work in machine learning---they're trying to solve an extremely difficult problem. To get to acceptable levels of performance, to go from 99% to 99.9999%, requires the most extraordinary efforts and significant brilliance and major, fundamental scientific breakthroughs, as well as tremendously large and well specified data sets.

              It also requires far larger datasets than Uber can ever come up with. That's why I think Tesla is ultimately the only company on the planet as of right now that can do it. They have tens of thousands of cars being driven around by humans that have all the sensors needed for self-driving. And those cars can compare what they would have done to what the human did. And learn from it.

              Uber simply cannot do that. The necessary dataset is thousands of years of those comparisons. Uber would spend a thousand y

              • "And those cars can compare what they would have done to what the human did. And learn from it"

                Nope, not what happens. The sensor data is sent back to mind control central and the algorithms are updated there and then spat out across the fleet. Individual cars do not learn about safety related stuff by themselves.

                • "And those cars can compare what they would have done to what the human did. And learn from it"

                  Nope, not what happens. The sensor data is sent back to mind control central and the algorithms are updated there and then spat out across the fleet. Individual cars do not learn about safety related stuff by themselves.

                  Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. Each car doesn't learn, otherwise the sheer volume of cars would be irrelevant.

            • You are probably correct, nevertheless it seems that Uber plans to solve the "tremendously large" part of that by throwing money at cheaper labor.
          • I would say "corner cases" make up 80% of the problem time-wise not 1% of the problem.

            • I would say "corner cases" make up 80% of the problem time-wise not 1% of the problem.

              A Tesla on Autopilot does the right thing far more often than 99% of the time.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          You would have to be pretty stupid to think that there aren't top notch engineers in India.

          Sundar Pichai is a nice example, responsible for many of Google's most successful products. Google itself was founded by Sergey Brin, who was Russian, and who also co-developed the original PageRank algo that made Google the king of search.

          If you continue with that attitude then in a few years another Huawei will happen to you. Last time it was 5G, maybe next time it will be an Indian company developing most of the te

          • Yes, I know, it's Slashdot, but you could at least read the summary of the story. Or even the title.

            Uber isn't going after the best and brightest engineers here. They're looking for cheap. And they're going to get what they pay for.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              The fact that the guy left suggests that Uber disagrees with the notion that they will have to hire lower quality candidates.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Salton Pepper ( 6245830 )
        Uber's business model is working as planned: hire human drivers and operate at a deficit for a period of time, and then become profitable by replacing them with autonomous vehicles. Unfortunately, Uber (and pretty much everyone else) were overly optimistic regarding the timeline of the maturation of this technology. In other words, they didn't expect that they would need to be paying drivers for this long. Softbank is going to have to keep Uber afloat for a long time to come: it will be interesting to see h

        • Uber's big problem is that they have fallen behind on SDCs.

          Waymo and Tesla are way ahead of them.

          If they don't get there first (and it is unlikely they will), then they will be entering a competitive market with low profit margins.

          It is doubtful they will ever make up for their current operating losses.

          I don't short stocks, but if I did, Uber would be my first pick.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Nike IT is quietly doing the same. No fanfare. No press releases. Not even an actual email to employees. Nothing that could be leaked to the media.

      Fifty percent of all IT is going to a variety of Capability Centers distributed around the world. Supposedly there are many CCs, but almost all positions are going to Bangalore India. Also supposedly it is to provide 24/7 IT coverage and provide the ability to tap into new talent pools. Nothing to do with much much lower wages.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Red4man ( 1347635 )
        Nothing to do with much much lower wages.

        BULLSHIT

        This has *everything* to do with lowering wages.

        • Nothing to do with much much lower wages.
          BULLSHIT
          This has *everything* to do with lowering wages.

          Costs matter, but he also raised the legitimate issue of global coverage.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      Just what does Uber need all those engineers for?

      There could be LOTS of things depending on what you call an engineer.

      On Uber's core business.

      The app is actually fairly complicated, you could easily have a UI team of 2-3 people working on each view of the application. Doing user testing in UI is time consuming. The app is also on multiple platforms so there is that.

      There is the back end infrastructure. Typically these infrastructure are originally built to have a marketable product. And then you spend time consolidating your infrastructure to scale up an

    • and call it a day. Even on iOS you're stuck dealing with constant changes and updates. I just went through tell because iOS modified some cookie settings and hell again when Google Chrome fiddled with some HTTP headers. The best part about Chrome was they rolled the change out to only a few users but didn't tell the users. If you look at the version # it's the same as people who didn't have the change.

      And God Help you on Android. So many versions, so many versions, so many versions....

    • > Just what does Uber need all those engineers for?

      If they called them "ML dataset annotators" would people feel better?

      A rose...

    • You don't work in software, do you!

      Any software that is used by people, will have to be updated. Software is a living thing, it is never "finished." In that way, it's kind of like road construction. We already have roads all over the city, why do we have to keep building new ones?

  • Advice kids.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by I'mjusthere ( 6916492 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:24PM (#60615244)
    Be sure to pick parents that can give you a trust fund.

    I see and hear all this whining and complaining about offshoring, lack of opportunities, expensive educations, etc...

    Pick good parents! That is all you got to do!

    Why is that so hard?

    Oh, and make sure you are born smart and white ...and male - to a well to do family. That really helps.

    Now, if you want to be cool and hip, be sure to pick a parent like Will Smith. You can be Black and rich and have all the opportunities you want.

    But white and nerdy, there's plenty of parents to choose from.

    • I see and hear all this whining and complaining about offshoring

      If you see a coder in India as your competition, you made some poor life decisions.

      Oh, and make sure you are born smart and white ...and male

      I was able to do that without even trying. It was easy. So why can't everyone else?

      • If you see a coder in India as your competition, you made some poor life decisions.

        Exactly. I mean I am a flabby suburban IT guy. I am special. Unlike those guys.

      • I see and hear all this whining and complaining about offshoring

        If you see a coder in India as your competition, you made some poor life decisions.

        Oh, and make sure you are born smart and white ...and male

        I was able to do that without even trying. It was easy. So why can't everyone else?

        You are full of shit. Are you gonna repeat your story how you had live out of your car and had to shower at the health club - that you were able to afford - and KNEW that it was temporary because you are so awesome pulling yourself up by yer own bootstraps? You knew - based on your STORY that is was temporary. You HAD a job.

        Huh? Bill?

        You are a phony. You THINK you are all that. You are just another blowhard on Slashdot hiding behind a pseudonym claiming to be something.

        Fuck you Bill.

        There are people wh

        • Hey buddy: there was a low point in my life when I could afford only ONE Tesla. So I know all about hardship.

          • Hey buddy: there was a low point in my life when I could afford only ONE Tesla. So I know all about hardship.

            Indeed. And they just raised the docking fee at the marina, again. Life is not easy.

            • And I'm taking a time-out.

              I see and hear all this whining and complaining about offshoring

              If you see a coder in India as your competition, you made some poor life decisions.

              Oh, and make sure you are born smart and white ...and male

              I was able to do that without even trying. It was easy. So why can't everyone else?

              Huh, maybe that was satire? Hard to tell with you...

              I'll think about it and need be, flame you again.

              • Huh, maybe that was satire? Hard to tell with you...

                I strive for ambiguity, so I appreciate the complement.

                I see myself as a living embodiment of Poe's Law.

    • You should also want to be born Western. That is the ultimate form of privilege and transcends skin color. As a Westerner, you are walking all over people in developing countries just by existing.
    • while up in heaven. Or they used to. An Atheist YouTube I used to watch mentioned it before the ad-pocalypse.

      It's basically their version of "Personal Responsibility". e.g. the idea that no matter how bad things are for you, you made your bed now live in it. Sort of an extension of the whole "God's Plan" thing that says all the suffering in the world is OK because God knew it was gonna happen.

      I'm more in line with the Episcopals here, as they're more of a "Lord Helps those that Help themselves, and
  • This won't happen to me. I am a flabby suburban IT guy. I am so much smarter than everyone else and have exceptional abilities. I can stay in my house indefinitely until COVID is over and the money will keep rolling in. All I need is these deplorables to harvest, manufacture and deliver my food and electricity and internet, etc to me. I will be fine.

    • This won't happen to me. I am a flabby suburban IT guy. I am so much smarter than everyone else and have exceptional abilities. I can stay in my house indefinitely until COVID is over and the money will keep rolling in. All I need is these deplorables to harvest, manufacture and deliver my food and electricity and internet, etc to me. I will be fine.

      You too!

      I just LOVE being the exceptional overweight ELITE!

  • This is news? What tech company doesn't have teams in India, Israel, Russia, and/or China? What company isn't constantly shifting staffing back and forth between them all?

    This was a thing back in the dot com boom. You couldn't get money without answering "what's your India strategy?"

  • As a developer in the US, I am actually split on whether I am happy about this or threatened by this. I have long felt development jobs actually function better remotely, as it forces clear communication, reduced distraction and allows developers to function during their best hours instead of some bright eyed and bushy tailed MBA who starts the day with a 10 mile run at 6am. It also means that I can potentially live wherever I want in the world, somewhere affordable with a good climate, but still have gainf

  • Hmm, isn't there something going on in California about making Uber drivers all employees? Those costs come from somewhere. So here's an idea, we'll just start hiring cheaper labor overseas to be prepared with what is going to happen.

    Weird how we complain workers are called contractors, but then complain the company's moving jobs over seas. They have to keep the balance sheets in the black. This isn't the government. You can't run debt spending forever.

    So what do people want? Cheap transportation? E

    • Hmm, isn't there something going on in California about making Uber drivers all employees? Those costs come from somewhere. So here's an idea, we'll just start hiring cheaper labor overseas to be prepared with what is going to happen.

      Weird how we complain workers are called contractors, but then complain the company's moving jobs over seas. They have to keep the balance sheets in the black. This isn't the government. You can't run debt spending forever.

      So what do people want? Cheap transportation? Employees? You can't have both.

      Yes, you can have both.

      Here's my dream tech company:

      I go to Bumfuck, Potatohoe and hire the best from Potatohoe State.

      I say - "This is what I want to do."

      Here is a great wage - Not Silly Valley levels but enough where you feel like you are being appreciated.

      Then I offer a 40 hour workweek, vacation, HEALTHCARE, and time to live a life.

      I could CRUSH any Silly Valley company with that.

      Because there are smart people in Bumfuck who would and could be more than tech support. But the snobbery I have witnessed

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        If you are actually aiming to hired skilled employees, then you are at a disadvantage to the offshoring providers. Their playbook is to point out all the legitimate examples of talent local to their area, and then hire *completely different* people who aren't skilled to actually fulfill business from a client that is landed. The actual talent is certainly there, but not as cheap as the offshoring shoppers are looking for. To actually compete you'd go off into rural america and hire out the services of rando

  • Genius move (Score:3)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:44PM (#60615338)
    Zero cultural knowledge, language barriers and revolving door staff retention. But think of the savings!

  • we need to cut costs to pay CA drivers min wage!

  • Where's Trump when you need him? (Score:3)

    by RotateLeftByte ( 797477 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:05PM (#60615458)

    He'll stop this in a flash... as in ban Uber. (sic)

    Seriously, why is this news? Don't all US Companies with a Wall St Listing do this already?

  • Selling off my uber in my portfolio, they can go out of business for all I care. I'm done supporting companies that outsource jobs away from perfectly capable Americans.

  • Seems right (Score:3)

    by swilver ( 617741 ) on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:10PM (#60616422)

    225 indian engineers? That should just about cover the 5 that left.

  • Even computer programmers, normally members of the 10%, are "costs", and "costs" have to be cut. Costs will always be cut, so there will be no corner turned, after which the income of the bottom 99% rises with overall productivity. Not ever.

    In a world with increasing availability of cheap labour as cheap travel and communications bring poor populations into the workforce, as AI automates more jobs, capitalism will never, at any point, hand over a single penny of new productivity that was made possible b

    • You are assuming, as the executives do, that costs will actually be cut. Sure, they'll get programmer hours for 1/3 the cost of programmer hours in the US, but they'll get much less than 1/3 of the productivity they would have gotten from those more-expensive US programmers. In the end, they'll pay more for their software, and get lower quality. It's not that Indians are inferior, it's more that you get what you pay for.

  • So they can put taxi drivers out of work.

    • Oh those poor taxi companies! The taxi industry was long past-due for a shakeup, when Uber and Lyft came along. Don't get me wrong, many taxi drivers are good people just trying to earn a living. They have been abused by the companies that hired them, just like they abused their customers. Finally, Uber and Lyft provide real taxi service that people can rely on, and taxi companies don't know what to do!

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