Nikola Stock Plunges As Company Cancels Badger Pickup Truck (arstechnica.com) 66
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Things keep going downhill for aspiring hydrogen truck-maker Nikola. Nikola's stock plunged on Monday morning as the company announced that a previously announced deal with General Motors was not going to close. Instead, the two companies signed a "non-binding memorandum of understanding" related to the use of GM's hydrogen fuel cell technology in Nikola's future semi trucks. GM will not take a stake in Nikola as originally planned. Nikola's stock is down 26 percent as I write this on Monday morning. The stock is down 58 percent since September 8, the day Nikola originally announced the GM deal.
The news means that Nikola is canceling the Badger, a planned pickup truck that critics have long derided as vaporware. Under Nikola's September deal with GM, GM was supposed to design and build the Badger on a cost-plus basis. The deal would have enabled Nikola to sell a pickup truck it didn't otherwise have the capacity to manufacture. But it was hard to see how Nikola was going to make a profit selling what would have essentially been a re-badged GM product. Moreover, it wasn't clear that Nikola had enough cash to finance the development of the Badger alongside the company's semi trucks and a planned network of hydrogen fueling stations. With the hype around Nikola cooling, Nikola may not be able to raise the necessary cash from Wall Street.
The news means that Nikola is canceling the Badger, a planned pickup truck that critics have long derided as vaporware. Under Nikola's September deal with GM, GM was supposed to design and build the Badger on a cost-plus basis. The deal would have enabled Nikola to sell a pickup truck it didn't otherwise have the capacity to manufacture. But it was hard to see how Nikola was going to make a profit selling what would have essentially been a re-badged GM product. Moreover, it wasn't clear that Nikola had enough cash to finance the development of the Badger alongside the company's semi trucks and a planned network of hydrogen fueling stations. With the hype around Nikola cooling, Nikola may not be able to raise the necessary cash from Wall Street.
It's Hydrogen. Who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
Calling a hydrogen FCV "vaporware", besides being a hilarious double entendre, is pretty much an accurate description of that entire market.
The name "badger" to describe a rebadged product (that's the normal term for these) is also a great double entendre.
And given that hydrogen vehicles are a joke, the whole story is self-consistent. SMH.
Re:It's Hydrogen. Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
I missed out investing on the reverse merger announcement as the stock price spiked too quickly, it turns out that was a blessing.
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Nikola's narrative really (and literally) has gone all downhill, hasn't it?
Yes, but not under it's own power - just gravity.
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Virtual +1 Funny.
Re:It's Hydrogen. Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
downhill
that will go over a lot of peoples heads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:It's Hydrogen. Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Of course it will, that's what hydrogen does. [wikipedia.org]
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And while we're nitpicking names, "Nikola" is a stupid name for a hydrogen power vehicle company. If they'd called themselves "Cavendish", that'd earn some nerd cred.
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Canadians: a vehicle that runs on french fries? [cavendishfarms.com]
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Headquartered adjacent to the optimistically named "Greater Moncton Airport", serving a metropolis of almost 72,000 souls... My grandfather was born in New Brunswick, on the Mi'kmaq reservation.
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That's bananas
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We're still waiting for that fabulous "Hydrogen Economy" that was touted by president George W Bush nearly 20 years ago. Still hasn't happened, probably never will.
You are totally correct, the "Hydrogen Economy" is pretty much a myth. I consider it the same thing as "Linux for the Desktop" which is a nice sounding idea that will NEVER happen because it is totally impractical.
BTW.. "W" contribution to this myth was a blatant attempt to pander to the environmental wacko lobby and an attempt to cozy up to the EU where such nonsense tends to find more traction. I don't think he was serious. $750 Million is but a drop in the alternate fuel bucket.
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You are totally correct, the "Hydrogen Economy" is pretty much a myth. I consider it the same thing as "Linux for the Desktop" which is a nice sounding idea that will NEVER happen because it is totally impractical.
Linux on the desktop has a better chance of happening than the hydrogen economy: there are a lot of practical problems holding it back, but at least in theory Linux on the desktop makes sense. Hydrogen has a lot of disadvantages over batteries that are fundamental, while its relative advantages are decreasing as battery tech improves. Hydrogen may find use in some niches, but it will never be the main energy storage/transportation tech.
BTW.. "W" contribution to this myth was a blatant attempt to pander to the environmental wacko lobby and an attempt to cozy up to the EU where such nonsense tends to find more traction. I don't think he was serious. $750 Million is but a drop in the alternate fuel bucket.
The cheapest way to make hydrogen is still from methane, which is why hy
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Thank you for the explanation. I was mystified as to who would want to pick up a badger.
Re: It's Hydrogen. Who cares? (Score:2)
Another, lonelier badger?
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This does not look like vaporware:
https://www.fch.europa.eu/news... [europa.eu]
A local bus service is a good fit for hydrogen technology, because extended range is not required, and buses can make regular refueling stops at depots around the city.
It is unfortunate that Nikola might be giving this technology a bad name, by hyping it up to milk funds out of investors.
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This does not look like vaporware:
https://www.fch.europa.eu/news... [europa.eu]
A local bus service is a good fit for hydrogen technology, because extended range is not required, and buses can make regular refueling stops at depots around the city.
Actually, it's a terrible fit. You have to build out the infrastructure for hydrogen production and storage, for one, and the only cost-effective way to produce hydrogen is by reforming petroleum, so aren't green at all, or else you're using at least twice as much electricity as you get out the other side. Either way, it's crap from an environmental perspective.
And all that so your busses can travel maybe an average of 200 miles per day, which is almost certainly fewer miles than you'd get by building a T
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I agree that current methods of producing hydrogen involve chemical processing of fossil fuels, but that need not be the case forever. I would image that electrolysis of water is the intended source of hydrogen, based on intermittent renewable electric generation such as wind power.
The ultimate efficiency from wind powered generator to motor vehicle traction is rather poor, as electrolysis and fuel cells are not very efficient. However, in the absence of effective means of storing energy from wind power, th
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I agree that current methods of producing hydrogen involve chemical processing of fossil fuels, but that need not be the case forever. I would image that electrolysis of water is the intended source of hydrogen, based on intermittent renewable electric generation such as wind power.
I'm pretty sure that's moot. The maximum theoretical efficiency of a fuel cell is only 83%, whereas existing batteries are 99%+. So even if the energy production were absolutely perfectly efficient, you would start out with about 16% losses right off the top. And AFAIK, hydrogen from electrolysis cannot possibly produce more electricity when used in a fuel cell than it takes to split it (because its potential energy comes from the bonds you're breaking), so you can never get that back, unless I'm missing
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Calling a hydrogen FCV "vaporware", besides being a hilarious double entendre, is pretty much an accurate description of that entire market.
Failed experiments are the foundation of knowledge. The insights, processes and technology discovered exploring hydrogen as fuel will likley lead to the successful creation of other related, and unrelated, technologies,
no substance (Score:2)
nikola is a company with no substance: a lot of bragging about their technology, but they don't have anything new or revolutionary
No Surprise (Score:2, Troll)
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A recent tesla has a battery that does half a million miles without trouble
How many Teslas have actually travelled half a million miles?
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A recent tesla has a battery that does half a million miles without trouble
Sure, if you got time to "fuel up" that battery on that long road trip, no trouble at all. IF you are driving long distances or carrying freight, fossil fuels got EV's beat for time efficiency.
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half a million miles
Still driving last years model, I see.
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Your American made gasoline engined GMC pickup truck will be worthless when fuel for it is no longer available or so expensive that it makes no sense to keep it, at which point you'll be stuck with it because nobody will want to buy it.
Re: No Surprise (Score:1)
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Your American made gasoline engined GMC pickup
Which is why you buy the diesel version. There are numerous sources of bio-diesel. The feedstocks for which can easily be diverted from the food production industry.
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Chevy's diesel is mediocre. Unfortunately in order to get a good engine in a US diesel pickup truck you have to buy a Fiat, I mean Dodge 2500 or 3500, or a Ford Super Duty with their corporate 6.7 V8. International was never very good at light V8s.
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Would that include the RAM ProMaster cargo vans? They seem to be the best option for campervans, since Mercedes Sprinter vans being both unreliable and expensive to fix and maintain and Ford starts rusting as soon as you leave the dealership after you bought it.
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No. Promasters are pure unmitigated shit. Known in other markets as the Fiat Ducato, it is a FWD pile with a torsion bar rear suspension that actually reduces ground clearance more than a live axle would. They are flimsy pieces of fuck that fall apart if you look at them wrong. Everyone who buys one regrets it if they have to do anything more than limited in-city driving.
Sprinters are not especially unreliable, but they ARE expensive to maintain. Just getting a useful scan tool is spendy. But they are still
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should work trouble free for years
The operating word here being "should". "Will" would probably be too much to expect. GM trucks are known for excessive oil consumption, transmission problems, and unreliable air conditioning. Consumer Reports gave the Chevy Silverado's reliability rock bottom ratings for the years 2015, 2017, 2019, and 2020 and otherwise poor to mediocre marks for all recent years except 2012.
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The sad truth is that if you want a US-made pickup and you want any chance of it not being crap, you pretty much have to buy a Ford. I know, I feel dirty just saying it. Time was that GM had the best stuff around, and even Dodge was the best at one time (specifically 1994-1998, and maybe back in the sixties and earlier too) but Ford really does make the best 1/2-ton through 1 ton truck in 'merica.
I'd rather have a Toyota though.
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should work trouble free for years
I see you are new to GM products. Enjoy!
Oh, The Humanity! (Score:4, Funny)
Too soon?
It's dead, Jim (Score:2)
It stinks already.
Breaking News (Score:1)
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Find
Amazing
Results
Through
Science
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Edison?
Obligatory quote (Score:3)
Nikola: "Badgers? Badgers?! We don't need no stinking badgers!" /UHF (1989) [wikipedia.org]
Non-binding memorandum of understanding (Score:5, Insightful)
GM: You never intended to make a truck and the commercial was fake right?
Nikola: Yes
GM: We are backing out of the deal.
Nikola: You can't do that, we had a deal
GM: We have lawyers and money
Nikola: Looks like we have a Non-binding memorandum of understanding.
Buckle up - insider shares unlocking tomorrow (Score:5, Informative)
According to CNBC "insiders will be able to sell for the first time on Tuesday up to 166 million shares of the company that had been prohibited from trading. A majority of those shares – 91.6 million – are held by Milton, who disappeared from the public eye and social media after being ousted as chairman in September. He resigned after the DOJ and SEC started probing the fraud allegations.". That's almost half of all outstanding Nikola stock becoming available on the open market tomorrow!
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/3... [cnbc.com]
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Nope, where did you read me saying anything about buying or selling? I was simply stating that cnbc reports that NKLA stock supply will significantly increase tomorrow - draw your own conclusions and invest accordingly.
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No he saying you should have bought puts and a lot of puts six weeks ago.
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Only if you want to get rich. Remember: buy high, sell low!
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Badger Badger Badger Badger (Score:2)
Mushroom, mushroom!
Special Thanks... (Score:3)
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Thanks for that, I'd never heard of them and it looks quite interesting.
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Negative. They are a deep research short seller. They find companies full of hot air and then pop them.
Nikola is a massive fraud (Score:4, Informative)
It is perplexing that it continues to trade on the public markets. Nikola insiders are about to sell an additional 166m shares to the general public tomorrow before having produced any products or meaningful revenue. The founder, and the primary con-artist, Trevor Milton will become a billionaire once he sells all of his shares that unlock tomorrow morning. This is a huge payday for him, for doing nothing more than exploiting loopholes in our public markets.
Someday they will make documentaries about this massive fraud. But for now, I am shocked that this is allowed to continue. Authorities have known about the fraud for months and are issuing subpoenas, but the general public is being victimized while no concrete action is taken to stop the scam. I know several people who have put their life savings into this stock, thinking that it was going to be the next Tesla.
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He will become a billionaire if enough people are dumb enough to buy the stock he's selling. I'm not sure why anyone would buy stock in that company at this point.
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Selling shares in a company, without having a product to sell, is not fraud as such. For example, it will often happen that a new product needs considerable research and development to be funded, before a product can be put on the market. One way of raising funds for the R & D is by selling shares. I presume that anyone buying shares under such circumstances would know the risks involved, but I believe it can be a winning strategy, even if there are ten duds for every star.
It looks like Nikola went beyo
Electric dreams (Score:1)
Maybe if hydrogen had the millions of dollars in tax funded subsidies that have been lavished on electric Nikola could have been Tesla.
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