French Army Gets Ethical Go-Ahead For Bionic Soldiers (cnn.com) 121
The French armed forces now have permission to develop "augmented soldiers" following a report from a military ethics committee. CNN reports: The report, released to the public on Tuesday, considers medical treatments, prosthetics and implants that improve "physical, cognitive, perceptive and psychological capacities," and could allow for location tracking or connectivity with weapons systems and other soldiers. Other possible interventions considered by the armed forces ethics committee include medical treatments to prevent pain, stress and fatigue, and substances that would improve mental resilience if a soldier were taken prisoner.
The committee said that France needs to maintain "operational superiority of its armed forces in a challenging strategic context" while respecting the rules governing the military, humanitarian law and the "fundamental values of our society." As a result, it has forbidden any modification that would affect a soldier's ability to manage the use of force or affect their sense of "humanity." Further examples of banned modifications include cognitive implants that would affect the exercise of a soldier's free will, or changes that would affect their reintegration into civilian life.
The committee said that France needs to maintain "operational superiority of its armed forces in a challenging strategic context" while respecting the rules governing the military, humanitarian law and the "fundamental values of our society." As a result, it has forbidden any modification that would affect a soldier's ability to manage the use of force or affect their sense of "humanity." Further examples of banned modifications include cognitive implants that would affect the exercise of a soldier's free will, or changes that would affect their reintegration into civilian life.
will have bionic arms (Score:2, Funny)
That automatically raise themselves to surrender?
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Please send help.
I'm serious. The whole planet sends warnings to our government. Human rights are at stake here. But they won't listen.
Macron has been elected to counter far right, or so they said. Now, he _IS_ far right.
He is far right because those who control police, the police unions, are far right. And as soon as the government reacts to any abuse, these unions threatens to block everything. Never has been so close to a cou
Re: will have bionic arms (Score:3)
Nice gear doesn't make a super power. (Score:2)
Someone does not know what "super power" means. There is still only one at the moment and only a united NATO (note I did NOT say "EU", which is not at all necessary to military cooperation as the successful Cold War demonstrated!) could match that.
Europe is still too tribal for that sort of cooperation and (by choice so it can maintain welfare states) while it is collectively wealthy enough to pull it off is not competent to manage the feat.
China will be the next superpower because democracies aren't capabl
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I actually count 6 super powers.
USA,
EU - with only small contingents under joint command
China
Russia
India
Parkistan
No idea how you count ...
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Not in total disagreement with you but I wonder what basic criteria YOU use to distinguish a country as a "Super Power". I know that nuclear capability is one I would agree with. Perhaps the ability to project substantial and significant force world-wide would count. Not sure about population size or density.
For that reason, perhaps a sub-category might be appropriate:
Super Power
- USA
- Perhaps China
Power
- EU can certainly defend their portion of the continent but really can't sustain a force projection miss
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You seem extremely confused. You seem to understand that China is not communist in any recognizable way, but his point was that democracy is being destroyed. And you're quite wrong about the direction of flow of the IP, though the Chinese (and Japanese and various other players) have certainly flouted the intentions of IP laws to get started. If the creation of IP is going to decide the future superpowers, then I don't think that America's extreme legal "innovations" in election lawsuits will count for much
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China will be the next superpower because democracies aren't capable of unity. The masses are too stupid for that, were always too stupid for that, and will remain so.
And while China may become one of the next superpowers, communist governments are horribly corrupt, bereft of the individuality required for long-term innovation, and overall inefficient. .
. . . but they have more than 1.4 billion people, and they have nukes. I think it was Stalin who noted that "quantity has a quality all its own".
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Please send help.
Sorry. We're busy dealing with our own problems.
The whole planet sends warnings to our government.
Yeah? Welcome to the club.
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Let democracy die its own way on its own side of the Atlantic ocean.
And other parts of the world.
Well, let us be concerned by the worse. And have some hope for the best.
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Just have a look at what's happening right now, these days in Paris: official, diplomatic and everything visit of Egyptian dictator Al Sissi. French TV has no access at all. One channel broadcasted images, but they got them from the Egytian TV !
About the burning part, thanks a lot, but I can see the light of yours burning
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Yeah there have been many wrong doings because every nation has assholes. But answer me this. What system is better?
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So, you basically don't have an answer. Got it.
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Except that systems of the West are still the best, and it goes downhill from there. Not so many democracies, or somewhat human rights respecting countries globally, outside the West.
Also, the Western democracies or "democracies" burning is not necessarily good news to you (I assume you identify with some other country or ideology). Because often, when the going gets tough, there'll be increased military adventurism, imperialism and whatnot, much of which can look a hell of a lot like weaker countries bruta
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Do you know that Biden is as much leftist as Macron is ? Which is : not at all.
Did you have a look at who paid the bills ? For both candidates, Biden and 45 ? Finance and fossil fuels industries and so on.
I like to call him 45, it reminds me Alien 3, and this character named after his IQ ! [imdb.com]
Do you know that the French Socialist Party (PS) is as much leftist as Macron is ? Not at all, and since a very long time. Perhaps since Mitterrand in fact.
Do you know that many countr
Re:will have bionic arms (Score:5, Informative)
There's nothing specifically "right wing" about authoritarian dictatorships. And a quick peek at Biden's primary performance should tell you how leftist he can become to impress progressives when necessary.
Unless *gasp* he was lying.
Ok, actual, live Bernie Bro here (Score:2)
Biden never lied though. He always opposed Medicare for All and the Green New Deal (the actual one, what he's proposing isn't even a pale shadow). He's still on the fence about legalizing weed. He's still a war hawk. The closest to "Leftist" we got is a public option...
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"and Biden was not, is not and never was even an itty, bitty, ensy bit leftist, even during the primary."
On the spectrum of US politics (not international, because the US spectrum is all that matters when discussing US politics), he most certainly is left, though I'll grant you left-center.
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Biden tentatively backed Medicare for All and the Green New Deal during the primaries.
Two definitions (Score:4, Insightful)
The word liberal has been stolen, much like the Naxi party was the "socialist workers party".
In recent usage, liberal or "left" means having the government control your job, your finances, your healthcare, etc. Left-wing means the government controls everything.
Authoritarian is having the government control everything.
"Liberal" is the new word for authoritarianism.
Which of course is not at all what liberal meant for a couple hundred years. Locke and Hobbs created liberal thought based on individual *liberty*. That's why it's called LIBERal - it was based on individual LIBERty.
Now the term means pretty much the exact opposite - rather than individual liberty, people are defined as members of a group, and their liberty is to sacrificed to the common good as determined by the politicians who are put in control. Pretty much the exact opposite of the individual liberty which defined liberalism from the beginning, the term is now used for authoritarian control.
Which btw is why the US Democrats came so extremely close to losing to even Donald Trump - because they forgot about individual liberty, about liberalism.
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I thought, these days, it's about retaining essential freedoms while limiting freedom when it infringes on the commons. Eg. basic human rights don't, and shouldn't include the right of emitting however much carbon dioxide wants, because it's not just, or even significantly, the emitter who bears the cost; it's borne by folks living maybe thousands of miles away, or who haven't born yet.
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I suppose it's up to those who consider themselves liberals to decide what they are going to support today.
Historically, for hundreds of years, liberal meant supporting liber (Latin for freedom, being unencumbered, like Spanish libre).
Locke et all spoke of liberal democracy. When you run for your local city council and you vote to preserve individual freedom in your city, that's liberal democracy.
The opposite of of liberal democracy is an authoritarian oligarchy. Authoritarian oligarchy is when Washington
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Actual leftists are really upset that they ended up with Biden
In the late '90s over a hundred computer scientists signed on to a letter warning of the danger of computerized voting. Neither party did anything to address the issue. Two decades later votes counted can deviate from exit polls by 20% and no one in either party complains (everywhere else in the world 10% is considered definitive for fraud). The DNC uses that system to ensure who the official candidate of the party is, why would they complain?
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The idea that Biden ever pretended to be "leftist" is kind of hilarious. Actual leftists are really upset that they ended up with Biden and think he is much too right wing to ever address their concerns.
And heeere it comes! The meme that nothing 'good' can be done because Trump will now become the meme that it can't be done because Biden is not sufficiently left.
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Read the second paragraph again.
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"Biden is centre right."
By your standards. Which don't apply here.
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Biden was forced to bow to nearly every pro-government, socialist pipe dream floated in the 2020 Democrat primaries.
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Do you know that many countries, including France, are transforming faster and faster into authoritarian regimes or dictatorship ?
No we did not. But a list of those countries would be appreciated.
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Re: will have bionic arms (Score:2)
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As a life long conservative, let me just say you're a fucking loon. Biden won, get over it.
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I don't know who I was calling. May be the UN? Blue helmets [wikipedia.org]?
But there's no blessing with Macron. They look different, but they are the same: working for few rich friends and sponsors, against the many, more and more of them becoming poor.
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One of them is the (relatively) recent flux of global power.
U.S. has been losing the status of a global powerhouse over the recent years, and it may be a good thing.
The French may be simply responding to the power shift that the world is seeing now.
China has been itching to step in and fill the vacuum. Russia is right behind them but. comparably, with very limited resources.
The recent developments in France may be a good thing,
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but the real story is.
will call of duty modern warfare have this as a skin next season
Re:will have bionic arms (Score:5, Informative)
That automatically raise themselves to surrender?
France lost 1,327,000 out of a population of 40 million fighting in WW1. France did not surrender. Most of those casualties were young males who would otherwise be starting families, careers, etc. It takes a society longer than 20 years to recover from such a lost generation and when Germany invaded, France did not have the manpower to fight another major war.
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The parent never heard the term "Blitz Krieg".
This "surrendering meme" is actually disgusting ...
Vive la Resistance!
They might as well... (Score:2)
In 21st century, building augmented "supersoilders" is as stupid as breeding a genetically superior tech-augmented cavalry.
Might as well invest billions in development of superior bows and arrows.
On the other hand, if a nation wants ACTUAL better, stronger, smarter soldiers I could fix that for them for the price of the ink needed to write new physical and educational recruiting standards on the back of an envelope.
Basically, do what Israely's do [wikipedia.org] - only add more carrots and raise physical requirements.
Worst
Wasn't this a movie already? (Score:2)
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Hey. HEY!! (Score:3)
OTOH, he'll never need glasses
(In the series, their services pay for the continuing maintenance of their hardware. The shows don't address what happens when they finally retire.)
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But then other series show her happily... self-employed?
Hasn't this been done before? (Score:2)
I have this sudden feeling of déjà vu [tribecafilm.com]
What is France up to? (Score:2)
Aircraft carrier, bionic soliders?
US independence, military-wise? Then on to Napoleon's Fourth Reich?
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How to remove free will in one step: (Score:5, Interesting)
Give the person crippling debt.
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The slippery slope begins. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Do you know what it is really all about, how to make each individual soldier as expensive as possible, not in terms of pay and services or health care but purely added in manufactured highly profitable corporate bits and pieces, how to make each individual soldier and expensive and profitable as possible, especially when they get blown to bits, the million dollars worth of gear also gets blown to bits. Nothing to do with ensuring the safety of the soldier or the combat survivability or even their combat abi
Re:The slippery slope begins. (Score:4, Interesting)
First, its ethical for soldiers...
Uh, let's just stop and pause right here. Sending robots to the battlefield, in order to "kill" the enemy.
Why exactly are we even feeding warmongering again? If it was often pointless and unjustified before, how the fuck did THIS help?
If this is a slippery slope, that's only because it's covered in Grade-D bullshit that some defense marketeer is practically wallowing in.
Re:The slippery slope begins. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sometimes, sending the 101st Singing Tambourines doesn't do the job. That's why countries have militaries. And because, as George Patton observed, "[t]he object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his", governments want to make their fighters as effective and durable as possible.
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Sometimes, sending the 101st Singing Tambourines doesn't do the job. That's why countries have militaries. And because, as George Patton observed, "[t]he object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his", governments want to make their fighters as effective and durable as possible.
Great. And when we humans are still finding stupid reasons to send literal robots into space in order to wage war on behalf of humans who still ignorantly find value in Yours vs. Mine mentality on other fucking planets, we'll all remember the great General Patton, and TRY and justify "killing" those metal "bastards" to make another country "die".
Space War brought to you by Facebook. (General Zuckerberg has a nice fucked ring it it, no?)
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Perhaps you would prefer a rather older commentary on war, by von Clausewitz:
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In a way, a military is like a locked door. You don't lock your doors because you're worried about your trustworthy friends and neighbors, you lock them because there are people who are not trustworthy and will rob you blind.
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The best way to avoid war is to be thoroughly prepared to win one. The easiest way to get in one is to be the easiest target.
In a way, a military is like a locked door. You don't lock your doors because you're worried about your trustworthy friends and neighbors, you lock them because there are people who are not trustworthy and will rob you blind.
And just how far should we stupid, ignorant warmongering humans take that mentality?
Instead of using the last 1,000 years to explore space and advance our race, we've chosen Greed instead. Spent the last few centuries fighting over Yours vs Mine. We gonna continue that stupid shit on the moon? Mars? You look forward to humans waking up from a 1,000 year old sleep to arrive at a distant "Earth-like" destination, to pick up a fucking gun?
Might as well forget human advancement and space exploration. Our
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Would you prefer eusociality, with you be
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Then why not anyone who wants it or can afford it?
Even though it's ten years old I recommend the first half of "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurtzweil (the second half is just documentation of the first half). Human augmentation echnology is following an exponential curve in ability and the reverse in cost, essentially Moore's Law writ large, and we appear to just be reaching the "knee" of that curve. Two decades ago it cost billions of dollars and took thousands of scientists around the world most of a decade to analyze the geneset of one person. To
Replacement for deprecated natural selection. (Score:2)
Physical and mental superiority are useful so why leave it to an "evolution" technology has eliminated?
The goal of modern society is to preserve all humans for as long as possible. To the extent it succeeds we're comfortable but natural selection and competitiveness which improves the species is deprecated.
That does not deprecate the advantage of technical superiority.
There being no purpose to life or humanity except its own perpetuation, seizing every advantage is simply the (evolved) wise move.
The social
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Or so we wish. Child count is not just the function of economic situation, there are strong cultural factors too. The real income of large fractions of populations in Sub-Saharan Africa exceed that of even Western Europe a short while ago. There was no internet, cars, plastic, TV/radio, washing machine, modern medicine etc. anywhere not so long ago. If it was just some absolute level of economic figure, Africa could've stopped its population explosion already.
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Jason Bourne has an opinion on that (Score:2)
Well the Bourne Identity was a cool series but it didn't work out for him most of the time, and he was the best.. Okay are they talking spies because it sounds like they would be sent to the suburbs too. I mean buffed up guys are going to stand out. Will these guys ever be able to function in ordinary society? Will they augment women too and have augmented children... Will motorcycle racing be filled with them? We probably do not need this. Football is already close.
Haven't soldiers always been augmented? (Score:3)
Ever since someone first picked up a sharp stick or rock and used it to stab an enemy with? Without weapons we're virtually defenseless (no, martial arts won't save you from a hungry lion), whereas with suitable weapons we're top of the food chain. This is just another step along that road.
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Ever since someone first picked up a sharp stick or rock and used it to stab an enemy with? Without weapons we're virtually defenseless (no, martial arts won't save you from a hungry lion), whereas with suitable weapons we're top of the food chain. This is just another step along that road.
Perhaps we can now continue down "that road" and find a fucking point now.
Defending yourself and surviving a lion attack is hardly the same thing as justifying warmongering between humans. Every battlefield in the past was rife with humans for two reasons. One, we lacked the technology to replace them. Two, human assets directly represent the "enemy" that you are trying to defeat, also known as the entire fucking reason you're at war.
How are we defeating our human enemies by replacing them in war? Car
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That's a strange take on warfare. Are you suggesting the primary reason behind wars past was for militaries to fight one another? Don't be ridiculous. Enemy military forces merely represented impediments to war's true purposes, which (in no particular order) were/are:
1). Stealing stuff
2). Stealing land
3). Getting revenge for activities related to 1). or 2).
It's not that complicated. Most militaries have been configued to suppress or kill civilians. Battles between militaries are what happens when the ci
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Yes, just defense. If you don't already have a standing professional army and logistical support for them, you don't launch major attacks during your p
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" but there's a huge gap between the last wars between the last barbarian hordes and the 20th century."
Yeah, right. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, the list goes on. Human nature doesn't change , just the tools we have to kill with.
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Standing armies are absolutely tasked with killing civilians. A quick look at WWII should show you that.
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Ever since someone first picked up a sharp stick or rock and used it to stab an enemy with?
- Tools are external augmentations.
- Body and mind augmentation which internal augments.
What is being discussed are internal augments.
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It's been going on, Ritalin for fighter pilots etc. One of the shallowest distinctions I can find is the external vs. internal augmentation. Everything is part of a single reality with shared physics and chemistry and permeable membranes.
Re:Haven't soldiers always been augmented? (Score:5, Funny)
no, martial arts won't save you from a hungry lion
Only if your Kung Fu is insufficiently powerful. Lions can't fly after all.
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(no, martial arts won't save you from a hungry lion) :P
Hercules might have a word with you
Dark Mirror is a go! (Score:5, Interesting)
We're well on our way to Dark Mirror's Men Against Fire [wikipedia.org] episode where a brain implant changes enemies into monsters in order to prevent PTSD and ensure complaince.
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Even further back is the 90's Outer Limits episode 'Hearts and Minds'. Drugs instead of implant but the premise is the same.
Universal translator implant? (Score:2)
Because we have no clue what they are saying besides 'Omelette du fromage'.
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What implant would help them if they are forced (torture) to eat American processed cheese?
Just implant some communicators. (Score:2)
Just implant some communicators like those in the Quantrill series by Dean Ing. With all the features of the implanted communicators in said series. Can't think of a politician who would object.
Free Will? (Score:2)
How about the right to decide not to be modified?
Also wondering how long before operational efficiency and speed mods are required of workers.
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How about the right to decide not to be modified?
Also wondering how long before operational efficiency and speed mods are required of workers.
It will be voluntary, at least to start. For many professional soldiers, the need to win at all costs would be more than enough personal justification. The slippery slope starts there: once a few are modified, peer pressure and organizational pressures will lead others to be modifiied as well, despite personal misgivings and reluctance.
I share your certainty it will be eagerly sought for the workplace. The conflict between the "needs" of the business and the rights of the individual are as old as organized
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Nah the slippery slope starts with the _other_ army whose dictators are known to be cutting corners as it is, what with mass inprisonment, stealth of IP, buildup of atolls in international waters into military bases, lying about virus transmission, CRISPR babies and so on. It's enough for reasonable Western powers (and for that matter, Russia) to assume that China will do whatever it takes to boost their soldiers, and China, knowing that the West anticipates China's unscrupulous behavior, will be prompted t
Re:Free Will? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure, you can choose to let yourself and your offspring wallow in the social and work backwaters. Your kids might not appreciate being the dumbest, weakest, sickest, ugliest, poorest child that they know, but that's your choice, right? Change is coming, whether you like it or not. Get on board or get left behind.
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"You will be assimilated"
The Borg probably started out this way too (Score:3)
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I'm pretty sure the Borg started as tennis ball machines.
Shock, amazement (Score:3)
France has a colonial past (and something of a colonial present as well) and until recently banned useful encryption. Their SWAT teams wear masks specifically so that they cannot be identified. At one time they ran the world, more or less. No surprise to see them cannoning up in a way that totally shits on personal freedom.
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and until recently banned useful encryption.
What did they ban?
Re: Shock, amazement (Score:2)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org] is a place to start reading, I guess. They still seem to strictly limit use of crypto in France. So much for revolutions.
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With the amount of Sharia going on there, they may try to do their best to avoid de facto splitting into two countries in one piece of land, an European one and a Northern African one.
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Perhaps you should read the article you linked. :P
It contradicts your previous posts
Re: Shock, amazement (Score:2)
In what way? They still limit encryption, and they limited it even more previously.
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France was the first country to promote PGP.
I'm not aware of any anti encryption legislation.
If you think you know otherwise, a link would be nice.
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Is there someplace where SWAT teams don't wear masks?
since when? (Score:2)
"operational superiority of its armed forces in a challenging strategic context"
Since when did _France_ have an army with operational superiority in any Context?
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Since when did _France_ have an army with operational superiority in any Context?
Since basically always?
How do you say COBRA in French? (Score:2)
Total memory wipe (Score:2)
I joined the French Foreign Legion to forget.
France is just following China (Score:2)
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It does indicate that they tweaked their sense of ethics to fit the outcome.
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I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny, or serious.
Having spent 42 years in/around the military, I'll say sure there are idiots/scumbags, but hardly any more that any other field. And I've seen more acts of kindness/generosity there than anywhere else as well.