Facebook Bans Trump From Posting For Remainder of His Term in Office (cnn.com) 345
Facebook will ban President Donald Trump's account from posting for at least the remainder of his term in office and perhaps "indefinitely," CEO Mark Zuckerberg said in a blog post on Thursday. From a report: "We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great," Zuckerberg wrote in the post. "Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete." The decision marks a major escalation by Facebook as it and other platforms have come under intense pressure from advocacy groups and prominent figures to ban Trump following his inflammatory rhetoric encouraging insurrection. Facebook and Twitter took the extraordinary step on Wednesday of temporarily locking President Donald Trump's account on their platforms after his supporters stormed the Capitol building to protest the election.
Seems fair (Score:5, Insightful)
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It is about damn time
Re:Trump called for protesters to go home... (Score:5, Informative)
Trump couldn't call for the terrorists to go home without praising and inciting them with more lies at the same time.
The "evidence" you are seeing is a photo of one of the terrorists counterprotesting at a BLM rally, cropped so his Qanon sign is not visible, and another photo that was on an antifa site, which in context was highlighting a local neo-n@zi (f'ing lameness filter) group.
Re:Trump called for protesters to go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
We're even seeing evidence that Antifa was posing as "Trump supporters."
One of the supposed Antifa members complained [sfgate.com] that he wasn't being recognized for his QAnon roots. Another Trump supporter [newsweek.com] outed himself.
Re:Trump called for protesters to go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump called for protesters to go home...
And that he loved them...
And that they were special...
And that 'we was robbed'!... Which is the exact reason everybody was attacking the capitol in the first place. Yeah, real helpful there.
I love how all you Trump people just ignore 90% of what he said in the video. The only thing he should have said was, "I lost the election. I am peacefully turning over power to President-Elect Joe Biden."
Re:Trump called for protesters to go home... (Score:4, Insightful)
The only person (ultimately) saying that Trump's election was stolen is Trump. There is no evidence that the election was stolen or his lawyers would have actually provided that proof in court and they wouldn't have lost 60ish court cases. Even Trump's lawyers had to admit in court that there was no massive fraud.
Circular logic does not proof anything. Trump tells people that the election was stolen so those people start repeating this lie and then when Trump is asked to prove that the election was stolen he points to these people repeating his lies as proof that the election was stolen.
It is ENTIRELY within Trump's right to say anything he wants but he must then be willing to take responsibility for what he says. I have yet to hear Trump say that he was wrong or taking responsibility for anything he has said. He is just hiding rather than manning up and facing the consequences of his actions.
Of course you probably know this since you decided to hide behind an AC post.
Trump needs to go home (Score:3)
No way biden got more votes than Obama.
Look who they were voting AGAINST this time.
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The majority of those cases didn't "go to trial"
...because they were thrown out for being poorly thought out and unsubstantiated by ANY proof.
there were procedural tricks used to dismiss them.
There were something like 60 lawsuits amongst several states and jurisdiction. Start thinking critically and you'd realize there is no way that there are THAT many procedural 'tricks'. The main reason so many were thrown out was because they were rushed, applied the law incorrectly, and lacked any chance of winning.
The election winner has no fear of the cases or recounts...
Like this?: https://apnews.com/article/ele... [apnews.com] Or this?: https://apnews.com/article/ele... [apnews.com]
House and Senate should do the equivalent (Score:5, Insightful)
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They want an investigation into the allegations of a stolen election? Make them each report the facts they know under oath with a threat of perjury. If they have no facts, no further investigation. If they lie under oath, file charges. Some of these loons are lawyers. Lying under oath will have additional professional consequences.
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Ah yes, those in power should just forcibly shut up those who disagree with them. Can't possibly see how that could ever go wrong...
Much better to just ignore the results of elections if they are inconvenient to your party. Nothing could ever go wrong with that either.
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If "RussiaGate" is the investigation into Russian interference into the 2016 elections, that went nowhere because the Senate refused to let it go anywhere. Despite making their own investigations that agreed. Party over country.
On standing and such, did you register the same objections when Democrats were encountering the same obstacles?
No? Party over what is right.
And on "what happened yesterday" not happening, that is NOT something where you "have your day in court".
None of the elections were that clos
pathetic and self serving (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:pathetic and self serving (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:pathetic and self serving (Score:5, Insightful)
"we milked this for 5 years, maybe we should cut him off since the new administration is coming in two weeks. Don't want to get section 230'd"
I agree it is pathetic, but not because of fear of the new administration. It is a new lack of fear of the current administration.
This is just doing something they should have a long time ago, but now that Trump won't be in power they have less to fear from reprisal from his administration. Anyone who says yesterday's violent sedition opened their eyes is a liar or an idiot. This has always been the very likely endgame of Trump's style of rhetoric. In a weaker democracy this is what a coup would look like. America is thankfully strong enough to survive Trump. But with 70+ million votes last November it was close.
Re:pathetic and self serving (Score:4, Insightful)
Facebook has profited from Trump. That bit of a business is about to dry up. I don't think Zuck gives a damn about insurrectionists in DC. It's just that Trump as a profit center is about to show increasingly diminishing returns, so if he can make Facebook look like its doing the right thing, while keeping the bottom line in good shape, then he wins on both counts.
How profitable was Trump for Facebook?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook has profited from Trump.
I am skeptical Trump was that profitable. If far right politics were that lucrative wouldn't Voat be thriving instead of shut down? What about parler? If this was so lucrative, they should be rolling in the dough and putting Twitter to shame with their profits. Fox News is making good money, but after refining their business model for 30+ years and a lot of corporate backing and guidance. Also, have you seen the ads on Fox News? There's a disproportionate amount of catheter and elderly product ads. There's a market, but I view it limited compared to the general public.
I genuinely believe Mark Zuckerberg that he was anti-censorship and wanted to stay out of politics. He's lost me and many other customers by allowing Facebook to grow so toxicly political without any labeling or filtering capability. Everyone I know avoids facebook, particularly in the last 4-8 years. In my opinion, he saw the power during the Arab Spring events and wanted to make Facebook the new town square. As a result, everyone I know avoids it. We don't want to hear all the political diatribes from our elderly or trashy relatives and the various conspiracy theories they love to promote. I want to see your baby pics or maybe look at some lady I had a crush on in high school...keep up with friends from long ago I remember and like enough to think about, but not enough to actually strike up a conversation with. I go on facebook now only to check on events for my kids' schools. Beyond that, I avoid it. Everyone I know is like that. We only go on if we have to... whereas long ago, we went on all the time for fun. I am convinced he is losing money tangibly by catering to people's political rants.
I am confident car companies, restaurants, stores, etc all spend a lot more advertising money than political campaigns and PACs. I am pretty sure happy people are more open to buying things than those reading scary "the sky is falling" conspiracy rants, which dominate my feed thanks to the people I went to my small town high school with and my elderly rural relatives. Hell, even if I agree with you, I don't want to hear your rants. I just want to see pics of old friends...maybe once the pandemic eases down, check on some local orgs for group activities. I go on facebook to get away from harsh realities of politics and how the world is fucked. I can't imagine perpetual doom manifestos are good for enticing customers to buy things on the ads Facebook is selling.
It's not the politics, it's the doom scrolling (Score:3)
Go look up "The Brainwashing Of My Dad". It's like that. You're taking
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If far right politics were that lucrative wouldn't Voat be thriving instead of shut down?
Voat was filled with far-right people who want to dox and harass others. It got its biggest boost after r/fatPeopleHate was shut down. It's not representative.
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If far right politics were that lucrative wouldn't Voat be thriving instead of shut down? What about parler?
Its not about right/left politics its about reach and engagement. Parler and Voat don't matter because people don't go to facebook seeking a political debate. They go to facebook to see what their friends are doing. Then facebook shows them some click-baity sponsored story or algorithmic selected thing one of the 300 casual acquaintances shared designed to provoke a response. Those responses good are dopamine hits to the original poster, that in turn work to get them to post again, the negative ones are fe
Engagement or not, fewer are using Facebook (Score:5, Interesting)
If far right politics were that lucrative wouldn't Voat be thriving instead of shut down? What about parler?
Its not about right/left politics its about reach and engagement. Parler and Voat don't matter because people don't go to facebook seeking a political debate. They go to facebook to see what their friends are doing. Then facebook shows them some click-baity sponsored story or algorithmic selected thing one of the 300 casual acquaintances shared designed to provoke a response. Those responses good are dopamine hits to the original poster, that in turn work to get them to post again, the negative ones are felt as personal attacks which demand continued engagement too. Either way facebook now has the people involved refreshing the site 10 times a day to watch how it all develops, and they show ad impression after impression...
Yeah, I have relatives like that. They're broke. Everyone I know who loves facebook is retired and/or broke and generally not crushing it at work and life.
Ad impressions are nice, but ultimately, people need to click on the ads and buy things for it to make sense for the advertisers. In my circle, there are man affluent professionals...those who could be lured into buying an Audi or Mercedes early or spending money on some trendy kickstarter-esque fad. They have disposable income and hobbies and interests they'd be willing to part with such income for....and none of them that I know of are active facebook users. If they're even still on, it's clear they haven't posted in years.
In my mind, there are people advertisers want to sell to and for the big spenders, it's usually those with extra money or who wish to look like they have extra money. I think of those who would buy the latest Apple Watch or a luxury car or upgrade their flagship smartphone before it has broken, maybe those who would be enticed by a sale of luxury clothes.
My crazy broke distant relatives ranting about conspiracies can barely pay rent. Catering to them while pushing me and my affluent neighbors off the platform seems like a really short-sighted decision. In my mind, reddit does a much better job. I can watch porn, I can filter it out...why can't we do the same with politics? Facebook really should force people to label political or controversial posts and allow people to filter them out. It doesn't seem like they're trying too hard to keep all the customers they've landed. It's a joke among younger people about how facebook is only for old people. When I log in, it seems like the most engagement is from my oldest and most broke relatives, not my facebook friends who actually buy things.
Actually they don't need to click ads and buy (Score:2)
And I know what you're thinking: "Well, the cat's out of the bag, right?". Wrong. I've been online for over 20 years and this is probably the 30th time I've read a story about how online ads are worthless and fraudulent. For some reason the big brands keep coming back.
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It is a tough problem for Facebook and Twitter. Trump is unfortunately the President of the United States. Such a position of power normally would allow additional give way to allow the Leader of the Free world, the ability to inform and notify the populous on what is going on.
Trump has actively ignored what is actually going on and had focused the last 4 years to be all about himself. And abused social media to help spew out useless at best information dangerous at worse.
"it's just the flu, bro", phah! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Who cares about deaths? (Score:2)
"What does it tell you, that China's Communist Party is allowed to speak on these platforms, but American President is not?"
Not sure, but your comment tells me you wouldn't know communism if it fell on you.
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No you I think you mean when members of the actual political class felt the heat just yesterday;
Riots are fun and games until they're next to your house.
Peer-to-peer (Score:5, Insightful)
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No one should have ever left the peer-to-peer technologies of e-mail and UseNet in favor of central servers controlled by private companies.
Peer-to-peer is appropriate for some forms of communications, but for others pub/sub is more appropriate. And that is a lot harder to do in a decentralized manner EG with regards to discoverability.
Re: (Score:3)
Peer-to-peer is appropriate for some forms of communications, but for others pub/sub is more appropriate. And that is a lot harder to do in a decentralized manner EG with regards to discoverability.
I agree it is much harder to build a decentralized system but still provide a level of discoverability which gave Facebook a much better user experience than peer-to-peer technologies of the past. But some hard things are still important to do. I don't have the ambition or vision to successfully do it myself (and have little faith I could finance it) but I hope someone does.
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I would argue that the most difficult service facebook provides, which would be hard to replace, is the spam filtering functionality. Not an easy problem to solve.
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I would argue that the most difficult service facebook provides, which would be hard to replace, is the spam filtering functionality. Not an easy problem to solve.
Agreed. Discoverability isn't an actual problem if all I meant was providing a way for users to find any content on the network. The problem is giving them a useful feed of information. Filtering out information the client doesn't want, whether it is spam or simply not interesting to them, is the real issue. Some kind of tagging makes categorizing content and matching it to their likes not too hard, so I would say spam filtering is the biggest challenge. As you said.
Re: Peer-to-peer (Score:2)
What? Without ad blocking facebook's primary mission is to DELIVER spam to users.
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Nonsense.. DHT solved the discoverability problem a decade or more ago.
Perhaps DHT is a company I'm not aware of, but if you mean Distributed Hash Tables then your comment is very naïve. The existence of a data structure capable of storing social networks does not mean building a successful product around it is a solved problem.
Re: (Score:3)
No one should have ever left the peer-to-peer technologies of e-mail and UseNet in favor of central servers controlled by private companies.
If I remember telephone interconnectivity only happened because of regulation (couldn't find a good source on this), so I am wondering whether regulation can help create a decentralised mixed-communication network, that support voice, video and multi-media texts - something without the limitations of SMS and mobile only platforms.
Quite honestly I don't mind paying a nominal fee if it came with a promise of non-tracking.
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Hard to maintain a plonk file of 75 million.
Way Past Time (Score:5, Insightful)
He's been making inflammatory comments for years, and now suddenly, when the inevitable happens and a bunch of his wild-eyed cultists bust into the Capitol Building, it's "Oh my, we've got to stop this now!"
Credibility would have been holding him to account years ago. Shuttering his access less than two weeks until he leaves office is like closing the barn doors after the armed, white nationalist, Confederate flag wielding cows have come home.
I guess this means Zuck won't be looking at a Congressional run under the Republican banner. The madness yesterday in Washington DC is going to end a few aspirations; including any possible ambition Pence may have of seeking the Republican nomination in 2024. I certainly hope it ends Ivanka Trump's dreams of riding her old man's coattails into Congress, but I guess we'll just have to see how many Always Trumpers are left after the dust settles.
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I guess this means Zuck won't be looking at a Congressional run under the Republican banner.
He might. Voters have incredibly short memories. "Watch Zuck ride in to save us from the evil socialist."
There's always a villain.
Anyone got any popcorn? (Score:5, Funny)
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What's the matter Radiant, no energy to get in the ring and fight today?
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Popcorn is nutritious, eat up!
Meanwhile, rats flee the capsizing ship (Score:2)
Thus far, only a few White House officials, some from the first ladies entourage, and one cabinet member have resigned [msn.com] after the attempted coup by terrorists which was fomented by the con artist. As the article relates, several other cabinet members are preparing to do the same.
In addition, there is now the suggestion the con artist deliberately put Pence's life in danger [cnn.com] by threatening him to overturn the election and when that didn't happen, refusing to send aid to quell the terrorist attack.
Pence was joined by his wife Karen Pence, daughter Charlotte and brother, Rep. Greg Pence, R-Indiana, for the ceremonial counting of the electoral votes in Congress Wednesday. Several of the violent Trump supporters who were rampaging the US Capitol were heard screaming "where's Mike Pence," the source said, frightening the vice president and his family. .
. .
People close to the vice president now believe he is being set up as a "scapegoat" to shoulder the blame inside Trump-world after Pence refused to buckle to the President's demands to engineer a procedural coup that would keep Trump in power.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, it's hard to feel sorry for Pence. He's been the chief enabler of much of Trump's idiocy and villainy. But still, at the end of the day, it's likely he's going to have to have a Secret Service detail for himself and his family for years to come. When the DoJ comes down on any ringleaders with the fires of hell, you'll have the rest start plotting the demise of anyone who the view as responsible for Trump's defeat. That's going to include people like Mitt Romney and Tom Cotton as well, not to mention T
So NOW Facebook bans Trump... (Score:2)
Gee, what a coincidence ... (Score:5, Insightful)
No deleting comments and discussions. (Score:2)
The seditionist spent quite a long time discussing and planning online. They should not now be allowed to delete the incriminating comments and threads now that their labors have born fruit.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Insightful)
fwiw, I think that Gerrymandering is much more significant than any cases of voter fraud.
In Arizona we had to use Citizen's Initiative to create a bi-partisan commission to write out new voting districts.
As a result, the GOP, which has held an iron grip across Az for decades, is slipping to the side and AZ is turning purple
It never would have happened if the people of Arizona has not taken the initiative
Gerrymandering is getting us some real nut jobs (Score:5, Informative)
qanon (Score:2)
Re:Gerrymandering is getting us some real nut jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
Anti maskers crack me up. "Masks don't stop the virus, dag gummit, it's too small!!". "Yes they do." "No, the virus is smaller than than the dag gum masks, dag gummit!"
At this point if you're too stupid to understand that close to 0% of transmission is due to naked virus floating in the air then there's no point even bothering to fucking correct you. Masks stop X% of the liquid you exhale, and Y% of the liquid you inhale. Y may be fairly small, X is not. This means it reduces transmission by some amount, and not a tiny amount. Even if it was a small amount, say it was 10% - 10% reduction in transmission across the entire population and with compound infection rates is a huge number of lives saved.
But yes, there are a lot of anti mask tards here in AZ, but they're too stupid to really get that angry with. I just ignore them.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Informative)
Georgia is run by Republicans. This conspiracy theory is idiotic. There was no fraud. The Secretary of State has time and time again demonstrated there was none, and all Trump's crack team of legal eagles, including Captain Hair Dye himself, Rudy Giuliani were laughed out of court.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Insightful)
And it continues. Not the conspiracy is that it was antifa/BLM who stormed the capital. And the same lame evidence which is readily debunked; claims that a facial recognition company said it saw antifa members which that company denied ever happened. The Fox talking head morons, Hannity and Carlson claiming that a real Trump supporter would never commit vandalism, never mind that Giuliani himself was the one fomenting the rioters in 1992 after a black person won the mayoral race (and Giuliani never apologized). There are clear photos of well known QAnon and proud boys members, the rioter who was shot and killed while breaking through chamber doors was a well known attendee of Trump rallies and has many prior tweets showing she was a true believer in the stolen election lies. These were not antifa or BLM, if they were the police would have shot sooner and more often and Trump would not have called them "special".
This is hopefully just the last hurrah from those desparate to not be on the losing side of history, desparate that their lord and savior Donald Trump is not just a fallible human being, and not subject to the shame of admitting that they were fools for following the pied piper.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Interesting)
It's hard to imagine an Antifa protester looking like this:
https://www.wivb.com/news/horn... [wivb.com]
These guys aren't well-healed college types that got the wrong answer while studying the Communist Manifesto in PolySci class. These are good ol' boys. They look like conscripts for the Confederate Army, which isn't far off.
As to Hannity and Carlson, if Trump ever actually launches his TV network, orders will come down from Murdoch himself to switch gears, and you'll watch these guys find a new religion in a hurry.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Insightful)
So you have no actual evidence of fraud.
And really, if voter fraud is an issue, then maybe its time Congress and the states get together to come up with a bipartisan or nonpartisan Federal electoral authority that removes running of Federal races, including redistricting, from the hands of individual states, creating a single system for the entire country, like, you know, pretty much every other liberal democracy out there does.
But I'll repeat, there's no evidence of widespread fraud. There never was. That was Trump's claim, and his minions dutifully went out and found some lunatics and liars looking for attention. Voter fraud has never been a sustained issue in US elections, gerrymandering, which the Supreme Court very nicely left intact, is the real injustice. Of course, if you got rid of gerrymandering and had nonpartisan districts drawn up, the Republicans would be in even more trouble.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'll repeat, you have no evidence of fraud, and every time this was pushed in court it was thrown out. You can keep repeating this "nobody looked" line, but Georgia counted votes the same damned way it had before, and once again, it is a state with Republicans in charge, so the conspiracy theory is even more fundamentally moronic. And heck, if you're roiled up about voter fraud, why weren't Trump's legal eagles marching into Texas? You'll note the states they took on were the ones that flipped. They weren't interested in assuring a clean vote, they were building up the myth Trump has been shouting out, and the culmination of that was yesterday's insurrection.
Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true, it just makes you a liar.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:This guys out (Score:4, Insightful)
This is how you kooks spread these conspiracy theories - bald assertions. They have looked at the "dag gum" paper trail (was that hillbilly enough for you?). Multiple times. They compared signatures. Every time they find the _usual_ issues that you would expect when millions of people vote in a large, complex election.
But you fools will just keep moving the goalposts, or straight up lying, or repeating months old misinformation because there are plenty of people too lazy to or too stupid to look into the actual facts and they just believe what some ding-dong on Facebook or Slashdot wrote.
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Informative)
Literally every time they have been allowed to review ballots they HAVE FOUND FRAUD.
Show the evidence. You're the one making the claim, show your proof. Here's how it's done. Georgia did a complete recount and a ballot audit. Of the 15,000 ballots they examined, they found 2 [cbslocal.com] which should not have been counted.
“The results of that audit confirmed the accuracy of the initial determination of the Cobb County Election Department in all but two cases,” said GBI Director Vic Reynolds. That’s two cases out of the more than 15,000 random envelopes they audited on December 21 and 22. “Those two ballots were counted, and they should not have been,” he said. “The Cobb Elections Department should have notified those individuals.”
In those two cases, a voter’s spouse had signed the envelope, and another voter had signed theirs in the wrong place. Investigators also say there were no fraudulent absentee ballots. “The Cobb Board of Elections had a 99.99% accuracy rate in the absentee ballot oath envelopes that we audited,” Reynolds said.
In addition, a machine recount was done, as asked for by the con artist, and found the same tally in all cases [thehill.com].
“The Secretary of State’s office has always been focused on calling balls and strikes in elections and, in this case, three strikes against the voter fraud claims and they’re out,” said Raffensperger. “We conducted a statewide hand recount that reaffirmed the initial tally, and a machine recount at the request of the Trump campaign that also reaffirmed the original tally. This audit disproves the only credible allegations the Trump campaign had against the strength of Georgia’s signature match processes.”
Your turn. Provide your "evidence" for this so-called "fraud", something never mentioned in any of the 55 lawsuits the con artist and his coup plotters filed. In fact, in several of the lawsuits, the con artist specifically went out of his way to state the lawsuit was not about fraud [time.com].
In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.
. . .
In a state case concerning votes in Maricopa County, Ariz., Trump lawyers again dodged and weaved. On Nov. 12, the same day that the President himself was tweeting about hundreds of thousands of votes being stolen from him, a Trump campaign attorney Kory Langhofer told a judge, “We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election.”
. . .
Lawyers representing Trump’s campaign sent a letter to Attorney General William Barr on Nov. 5 alleging “criminal voter fraud” in Nevada. But lawyers representing Trump never made that allegation in court filings. Instead, as in many of the other Trump campaign election cases, the Nevada filings focus on much smaller claims, including questions about the use of a scanning machine to verify signatures and whether observers had proper access to observe vote counting.
Put up or shut up.
How To Unify 101 (Score:2, Insightful)
We need to be unified as a country
hint: The way to unify a country, is not by duck-taping the mouths of anyone you dislike or disagree with.
In fact, if you start to silence people who until now had inaccurately claimed censorship, you will in fact be re-enforcing followers to believe you are against them wholesale.
Re: (Score:2)
Those same people will have their beliefs re-enforced no matter what. They literally think Pence is a commie leftist traitor now because he didn't go along with some impossible scheme to literally just dictate the winner of the election.
At this point it's time to just marginalize those fuckers even more than they already are. Sure, don't vote for "Commie" RINO "Republicans". That'll sure teach people a lesson when Democrats have even more control. Then people will wake up and more Democrats will move right,
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The FBI is going to be delivering some karma as it busts down the doors of the instigators, that's for sure.
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Now that you mention it this is a pretty big win for the far left (whom I also fucking despise). I don't think they're this smart, but if their plan was to irritate the right wing enough that they go and do something like this it was pretty brilliant.
Step 1: Riot, commit arson, loot, etc.. with impunity.
Step 2: Get most media outlets to mostly ignore it.
Step 3: But get it out there enough on twitter and right wing outlets to let the right wing get pissed about it.
Step 4: Right wing explodes and look li
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This bizarre theory that allowing right wing fucknuts to shout every kind of bigotry and lie that springs into their foul little minds through the megaphones of TV, talk radio and social media was *less* divisive than it would have been to squelch their voices by insisting that you can't lie and foment hatred in public in this way, that it's shameful and dangerous to do so, is so wildly at odds with the evidence of the past five years, it's absurd. The right used to be ever so keen on shame: you shamed wome
Re:This guys out (Score:5, Informative)
I hope the democrats can avoid the winner takes all syndrome and start to reach across the divide.
The Democrats have been trying to reach across the divide for over a decade at least with no success. The entire reason Republicans couldn't repeal Obamacare is because Obamacare is the most conservative approach possible which would actually improve the situation. And even that was fought tooth and nail by Republicans.
While I wouldn't expect conservatives to be on board with the agendas of liberals like AOC or Bernie, there isn't a single thing on Biden's agenda which should get any push back from any politician who is interested in improving this country.
Electing such a centrist Democrat in the primaries has already shown the Democratic party's willingness to work with Republicans. But that doesn't mean Biden should wait for a single Republican vote before getting his agenda accomplished.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Sounds fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Even at their worst, BLM and Antifa protestors never pulled off what Trump's militia did. I'm sorry, this attempt at moral equivalency shows your own moral
vacuousness.
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There is moral equivalency here, at a high-level. I don't see any significant relevance to my original point, at least, in comparing the details of which group did or did not get into which kind of government building, and how many days they tried, etc.
That police station that burned down in Missouri (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't much of a surprise either. The reason the Capital Building got raided is the cops let them in. There's video of them doing it. Let that sink in. Several police officers assisted with an armed takeover of the Capital Building of the United States. And they'll probably get away with it. Worst case they'll be fired and have to get a job at another precinct. When folks talk about "Defund the Police" that's why. It's not a good idea to have that much power in that large a paramilitary organization...
Re:That police station that burned down in Missour (Score:4, Informative)
The reason the Capital Building got raided is the cops let them in. There's video of them doing it.
You are correct. This article has the link to the video [rollcall.com], in addition to several of the police taking selfies with the terrorists.
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This is why the police need to be downsized. The problem is that since we're using them in place of social workers we need a *lot* of them. So many that we can't find enough qualified candidates willing to do the (admittedly hard) job.
I don't want to do away with police. I like that if there's a nut case waving a knife out on the street that somebody with training and skills will come to deal with it. But when you're only tool's a hammer you end up buying a lo
Wasn't a cop taking a knee what started this mess? (Score:3)
Also the people of Minneapolis would be surprised to find out their city burned down. Especially since it was proven that 93% of the protests were peaceful and of that remaining 7% most of it (5%) was the result of right wing provocateurs trying to stir trouble and cause violence to advance their political agendas (what we colloquially refer to as "Domestic Terrorism").
But hey, all that matters is that your side wins. Which ever
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Also don't forget that some antifa and BLM posts were also banned. It was just harder to ban the president's posts and tweets because they had been giving him special leniency because of being in a special position of power.
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BLM and Antifa destroyed the livelihood of innocent shopkeepers, restaurateurs, and burned down some low income housing. At least Trump supporters had the decency to direct their anger toward the people they are actually angry with.
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All they did was occupy a publicly owned building and maybe break a few windows.
Because the explosives were safely recovered from the other buildings...
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The rioters who are worst are the ones who are rioting on your street and shooting guns in your backyard.
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What did they do?
Did they attack the person of any elected official? Did they target and attack law enforcement professionals or just push past them? Did they deliberately attempt to destroy a public building or public property. Did they attempt theft or destruction of private property?
Yes they did some damage in their B&E but I did not see them doing either of the above which are WAYYYY more serious. I am sure you can go find some minor incidents but generally speaking the lack of burned buildings, bro
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Even at their worst, BLM and Antifa protestors never pulled off what Trump's militia did.
Yeah, instead of focusing their rage on people who could actually address what's pissing them off, they burned down their own neighborhoods and ran violent crime rates up several-fold.
Which is to say, Trump supporters are smarter.
Re:Sounds fine (Score:5, Interesting)
Fine, Trump's insurrectionists. And frankly, I think those in custody in DC cells right now should be paid a visit by FBI agents and charged Title 18 US Code 2383, and then, if Trump doesn't find a way to pardon himself (I'm thinking even if he resigns, Pence ain't gonna let him off the hook now), on January 20th, right after Biden is sworn in, Federal agents can arrest Trump. The nice thing about Title 18 insurrection charges is that if found guilty, you can't run for public office ever again.
Re: Sounds fine (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no time for Antifa (though I can't cry a single tear when a N-azi gets a fist in his face, the last time we tangled with them, we turned their homeland into a smoking crater). But most BLM protestors are not thugs, and they have a point. Even this insurrection in DC yesterday showed how white thugs are treated, as opposed to black thugs.
Re: Sounds fine (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sounds fine (Score:5, Informative)
they stormed, _unarmed_ the capitol building and pranced around for a while.
Tell that to the 50 capitol and metropolitan police who were attacked by the terrorists [cnn.com], some so severely they are in the hospital.
In a statement released Thursday morning, chief of police Steven A. Sund detailed the violent actions of the rioters saying that Capitol Police and other law enforcement officers were "actively attacked" with metal pipes and other weapons.
"They were determined to enter into the Capitol Building by causing great damage," Sund said.
. . .
Sund also said Capitol Police responded to reports of pipe bombs and a suspicious vehicle on the southeast corner of the Capitol, adding that the Capitol police "determined that both devices were, in fact, hazardous and could cause great harm to public safety."
. . .
More than 50 Capitol Police and metropolitan police were injured during Wednesday's attack, and several have been hospitalized with "serious injuries," according to Sund.
. . .
Others who were in the House chamber with Quigley described the harrowing scene as well. After a rioter broke a window of the door to enter into the chamber, several Capitol Police drew their guns and warned the individual to back away. A desk and chairs had been propped up to block the entry of the rioter, but the lawmakers had no way of knowing if the person was armed or had explosive devices that could turn the scene deadly.
And let us not forget those who were chanting, "Where is Pence?" [cnn.com] as they rampaged through the capitol, damaged and destroyed government property, and stole government property.
Your excuses this was no big deal are just that, excuses. These were terrorists, egged on and encouraged by a seditious traitor, who should have been mowed down by the police the moment they started attacking the building and the police themselves. If you think any of this acceptable, you're part of the problem.
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And P.S., this is what the con artist had to say about people who vandalize or damage federal buildings [9cache.com]. Since we have direct, incontrovertible evidence of these terrorists damaging a federal building, we can expect that as they are rounded up, they will be given the minimum ten year jail sentences. Note the con artist used the term protestors, which is what we were told these terrorist are. Therefore, they fall under his own words
Re:Sounds fine (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it's fine for some groups to run wild but not others. That's the new normal. Arson and looting and sieging of Federal buildings in some states is OK, that's just a catch and release operation. But an unarmed mob of _different_ idiots doing it is OMG the worst thing in the world and the end of Democracy someone stop me (*clutches pearls desperately on twitter*).
Neither is okay, and while the coddling of one may have inflamed the other, whataboutism is not the way out of this morass.
Upside? Both sides are the winner here. The sitting President has spent his political capitol and will likely not negatively impact the 2024 Republican nomination process, and the Dems get unfettered access to the White House and both Houses of Congress for a couple of years with a chance to prove they can govern without pandering to the most extreme of their lot.
Or, as politicians are wont to do, either or both parties could take a bad situation and make it worse... here's to hoping yesterday was a wake up call and not a call to escalate tensions.
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I don't disagree, it's just irritating to see people pretend that this is the worst thing to ever happen and a veritable insurrection and treason and etc... It was a bunch of stupid assholes running around LARPing. One of the idiots got shot, and a few old boomers keeled over from heart attacks, and some dipshit climbing the rails fell and died - I don't think the cure for cancer was exactly missed out on here.
And yes, I am reading similar hypocrisy on the right. "OMG evil cops shot an unarmed woman!!". Are
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Have you ever thought about why you're a gun nut and perhaps thought about not being a gun nut?
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I like guns, that's the extent of it. If I liked skateboards I'd be a skateboard nut. If I like woodworking I'd be a woodworking nut.
I own a shitload that mostly sit in my safe unless I take them out once in a while to shoot paper targets or steel targets. I do this because I want to, and there's nothing more or less to it, same reason I have a shitload of computers and networking equipment I don't "need". I also have PCP airguns I enjoy as well.
That's about the only thing I have in common with about 95% of
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Re:democrat riots and election fraud are just fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh shut the fuck up. Jesus Christ, there was no widespread fraud (so far as I know the only verified fraud was a Trump supporter trying to vote twice). It's fuckholes like you who offer aid and comfort to the insurrectionists that smashed their way into the Capitol Building. You're is contemptible as they are, just a lot more gutless.
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Don't worry, Anonymous Coward was just Trump posting here because he's not allowed on his favorite B-list celebrity sites for a few days.
Re:democrat riots and election fraud are just fine (Score:5, Informative)
It was all bullshit. No evidence was presented, just a bunch of Republican lawmakers hoping to ride the coattails in 2022.
Re:THANK YOU LIBERTARIANS (Score:5, Insightful)
There's still plenty of support for Republicans, and gerrymandering assures that states like Texas will continue to deliver the required quota of Republicans to the state legislature and Washingon. But it has clearly spooked even some of the die hards at the top. Whether they can actually fix the problem is another question. The two Georgia Senate races have demonstrated that minority and progressive voters can, in fact, be motivated to show up. Now of course, without Trump at the helm, the most immediate irritant disappears, and that will probably buoy efforts in 2022 to flip Congress, but if the Republicans end up with another Trump-like candidate, or worse, Trump himself, then all bets are off.
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I know several Libertarians. Like any third party voter, they do not think of themselves as splitting any vote at all. They just vote for who they want, they disagree strongly with many of Trump's policies and action and who also did not like Biden's policies. Just as those voting for Ralph Nader instead of Bush or Gore did not consider themselves to be splitting a vote. Many of those Libertarians are also leaning towards some Democrat policies, so by voting Libertarian they deprived Democrats of a vote
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Most techy Libertarians are just Republicans in denial who like porn, pot and hentai, have a beef with religion, and have a hard-on for Heinlein and Ayn Rand.
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Well, Libertarians are pretty much anti-authoritarian, whereas Republicans are currently pro-libertarians. At at least Libertarians are for more freedoms, economic and social. In the past Republicans were mostly about fiscal responsibility but that's fallen to the way side for the most part except for the anti-tax fervor.
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Nothing? I tell you what, when the CCP says something like "Hey America, rise up and overthrow your capitalist government!" and twitter does nothing about you can come discuss it. See, on twitter it's about what you say, not who you are.
Though I will admit that last sentence wasn't quite true and the far left gets a pass on shit that would get others banned. But that's not what's happening in this particular case.