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Chip Shortage Hits Global Automakers (bloomberg.com) 70

Posted by msmash from the nobody's-immune dept.
A semiconductor shortage is dragging on some of the world's biggest auto manufacturers, costing Daimler, Nissan Motor, Honda Motor and Ford Motor production of a range of cars. From a report: Mercedes-Benz maker Daimler joined its German peer Volkswagen AG in announcing it's affected by the industrywide supply bottleneck, without quantifying the impact. Honda said it will cut domestic output by about 4,000 cars this month at one of its factories in Japan, while Nissan is adjusting production of its Note hatchback model. Ford is idling a sport-utility vehicle factory in Kentucky next week, pulling forward previously planned downtime due to the chip shortage.

VW, the world's biggest carmaker, announced last month that it would need to adjust first-quarter manufacturing plans around the globe because of the shortage. The company said chipmakers reassigned some of their production capacity to consumer electronics and other sectors last year and were caught off guard by surprisingly resilient auto demand. The amount of VW car output lost could be in the low six-digit range, according to people familiar with the matter.
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Chip Shortage Hits Global Automakers More

Chip Shortage Hits Global Automakers

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  • This is why you don't rely on a single supplier if you can help it.
    The whole reason AMD were ever able to make x86 compatible chips is because IBM demanded a second source, so Intel had to license their designs to AMD or risk losing IBM as a customer.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      The secondary suppliers are also facing high demand.

    • This is why you don't rely on a single supplier if you can help it. The whole reason AMD were ever able to make x86 compatible chips is because IBM demanded a second source, so Intel had to license their designs to AMD or risk losing IBM as a customer.

      And you don’t think car manufacturers have multiple sources? This is as the summary says, a global problem.

      • This is why you don't rely on a single supplier if you can help it.
        The whole reason AMD were ever able to make x86 compatible chips is because IBM demanded a second source, so Intel had to license their designs to AMD or risk losing IBM as a customer.

        And you don’t think car manufacturers have multiple sources? This is as the summary says, a global problem.

        They don't. Most are using ICs that have proprietary build systems. Second sources are not permitted in the contracts. If you ask for a second source, they'll simply select a second distributor, not a second IC.

    • "This is why you don't rely on a single supplier if you can help it."

      Well, there are car companies that know that if you want something done right you do it yourself.
      Unfortunately the people in this article made fun of that company for 10 years.

      • And in a few more years they will start outsourcing to cut costs just like all the others. Where there are accountants and shareholders it is inevitable.

  • We're out of 6502's? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Spinlock_1977 ( 777598 ) <Spinlock_1977@nospAM.yahoo.com> on Friday January 08, 2021 @12:36PM (#60911344) Journal

    Maybe they can switch to 8080 or z80. That would free up more 6502's for Gallaga.

    • Mouser is down to a few hundred 65C816 (the current WDC version of 6502) and only a couple thousand z80s from TI and ZiLOG.

      And dozens of 8080s.

      Maybe switch to AVR?

  • Manufacturers are reducing production because less people are buying cars now, but blaming chip shortage sounds a lot better.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      less people are buying cars now, but blaming chip shortage

      It sounds like it because they could complete the cars minus the chips, and stockpile the cars for later if they were confident of car demand.

  • ( Incorrectly punctuated, misspelt versions allowed. Of course. )

    1. Musk still richest person despite auto chip shortage.
    2. Apple car will now not be out for two thirds of a decade due to auto chip shortage.
    3. Julian Assange's extradition not affected by auto chip shortage.

  • Stop using high-end silicon! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday January 08, 2021 @12:48PM (#60911426)

    Stop putting high performance computers in cars and you no longer have a problem. Nobody needs a 1.2GHz dual core ARM CPU in their radio but alas, this is what they are putting in them for their "media console" complete with 8" graphical LCD. This naturally results in the need for high-end silicon fabrication. If they would only stick with the old dependable fabrication for slower chips and stop using graphical LCD then there would be no need for high-speed chips.

    • Unfortunately operators must look away from the road to use them vs grasping a knob or lever whose distinctive feel permits operation by counting detents or knowing an approximate position.

      Cost and styling are the reasons controls other than aircraft are ergonomic trash but buyers don't care and accept anything superficially attractive.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by caseih ( 160668 )

        It's hard to know if buyers are okay with it or not. When all the options include it now, can you really tell anything about how buyers feel from sales? If I need a new car, it's going to have the stupid touch screen even though I hate it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by DarkOx ( 621550 )

      There is a near endless list of products that now come in somewhat recent computer enhanced forms we could name a state that 'nobody needs' compared with versions they are replacing from televisions to toasters and everything in between. Not sure what your point is exactly.

      • Not sure what your point is exactly.

        My point is simple: their current problem is of their own making. They are choosing to depend on high-end silicon.

    • Umm, the reason they are putting "graphical LCDs" is because people didn't want to buy the cars without them. They saw how the various models of their own and competitors sell (or don't sell) without that. Nobody wants to buy a 1950's technology car.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        What choice did they have? The car companies bundled those obnoxious-as-heck touchscreens with other features that people wanted, like sunroofs or better speakers.

        If you ask people what they want in a car radio, very few will tell you that they want a touchscreen nightmare with an unused in-dash navigation system that doesn't work half as well as the Garmin they have stuck to their window. No, they get that because everything is bundled.

        Don't get me wrong. I understand why they have to bundle things. I

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        In the case of Detroit they tend to blame the wrong things for lackluster sales. At one point Chrysler board members asked Marketing why BMW was selling so well in the US, and Marketing told them it was because their vehicles had number/character models rather than named models. The next year there was a revival of Chrysler models with numbers instead of names, and no one in management could understand why the didn't sell.

        I can hear the recent discussion, "Why didn't GM's EV1 sell well, but Teslas do?"
        "We

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by havana9 ( 101033 )
        I have to disagree, I would like to drive a WV bug ot a Fiat 500, but because of pollution laws they are almos not roadworthy (like you can drive them only on saturays or sundays or afrer 7 pm or the like.

    • "Nobody needs a 1.2GHz dual core ARM CPU in their radio"

      This doesn't require high-end silicon. The goal function is cost per die.

      While the cost per wafer goes up at newer nodes, you get more die per wafer. In addition, if you can use a common part you can spread the non-recurring engineering cost over more units.

      The next factor in volume is the installed base of fab lines. While the fabs for newer nodes are still being built, older nodes occurred when there was less demand so there weren't as fab lines made

    • I actually demoed at the mobile world Congress in Barcelona about 10 years ago, when 1.2 GHz dual ARM chips were presented by my colleagues. 45nm state of the art 10 years ago, even then it was 1mm2 per core in die size, so silicon area cost of about 0.10 USD. Today, more performance for less money... Next to half a billion phones, which mostly have better and bigger processors, a couple of million cars don't weigh so much. Plus, who's buying a new phone in this economy? Or a car, for that matter...?
    • Why do you think that production of slower chips is "old and dependable"? Manufacturing technology moves along just like the technology itself. The fabs that built those old chips are obsolete and either shut-down, or they are going to shut down soon. Yes, there is a patchwork of older fabs out there hanging on by building MEMS and "more than Moore" technologies but this is not more dependable than using a technology that can be made at TSMC, or built at any number of modern fabs spread across the globe. Wh

      • But there is no conflict between "high end silicon fabrication" and availability.

        What are you talking about? TSMC is booked for the next couple years because they are the only ones doing 7nm chips. The entire shortage is because they are using high-end chips!

    • Stop putting high performance computers in cars and you no longer have a problem. Nobody needs a 1.2GHz dual core ARM CPU in their radio but alas

      Go to mouser and check how many z80s and 6502s are still in stock... hundreds. You cannot buy a reel anymore.

      You can buy dual core ARM CPUs by the pallet of reels.

      Thankfully, I chose AVR for my 8 bit needs, even though I'm paying for an excess of "olives." I can still build my products, though; no shortage. And I save time on programming, because it is all modern and I can use GCC.

      • You can buy dual core ARM CPUs by the pallet of reels.

        So why aren't the using them? Obviously because they need ones that are certified for use in automotive vehicles.

  • I was very confused. Damn it, I'm getting old and I need bifocals now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Coius ( 743781 )

      Sadly, at the age of 34 with being hit in two car accidents in 2 years, I now have to wear them. They suck, but try to get line-less bifocals. I recommend carl zeiss lenses. they have a wider area left and right that is viewable without distortion. My lenses alone set me back $300, but I was able to re-use my frames. Go to walmart or online to try to keep the price down. Then after that, if you can afford them, get a frame with a magnet so you can use the magnetic sunglasses/ND Filters. I have to use my N

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by spun ( 1352 )

        Good to know, thank you! I've been putting off getting bifocals for a few years now. Helps to have some advice from someone who wears them.

    • Be careful, recent history has shown that it might have said that at one point and was fixed. Nah who am I kidding, article title grammar and typos don't get fixed anymore.

      -Over! Over.

  • The big question is why there is a chip shortage. Did the foundries have problems that led to reduced wafer output? Or is the problem that demand has skyrocketed and that production has failed to meet the much larger demand? Since foundry provisioning is so expensive and has such a long lead time, planning for wafer production should be firmed up in contracts. Did these car manufacturers, not to mention GPU companies and others, not sign contracts for production? The choices for the current problems ar

    • Yeah, I wanted to see more details on this as well. They just mention the pandemic, but give no real insight.

      “The spread of the coronavirus has impacted procurement in semiconductors and related parts,” a Honda spokesperson said in a statement Friday. “We will address this issue by adjusting production and replacing car models.”

      I went digging a bit, and found this article:

      https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]

      Turns out things are more complicated than that. Factors include:
      * Bulk buying by Huawei (triggered by US restrictions)
      * Pandemic-related work slowdowns
      * Warehouse fire in Japan
      * Strike in France at chipmaker STMicroelectronics
      * Lack of required production capacity for "8-inch" fab plants
      * Unexpected rebound of demand

      From

      • 8 inch is tried and true, and indeed it's hard to ramp anything for such standard run of the mill stuff, even if it's automotive. Most of it doesn't command a premium price wise, but indeed there's no way to scale capacity when the tech is so old (20+ years). Disclaimer: I actually do work in that industry, but in one specific corner, so I don't have a broad overview.

  • It doesn't say why there is a shortage or what the specifics of the shortage are, just that there is a shortage. Semiconductors is a broad category so it's kind of important to mention specifics. Cmon bloomberg

  • FTFA:

    Electric vehicles usually pack more of them than models powered by combustion engines.

    Yet no mention of Telsa having issues. Do they have a different supplier?

  • The shortage is caused by Bitcoin and people are now using any microchip they can find to mine it.

    Woosh ...

    • The shortage in video cards is caused by Bitcoin. Newegg is out of stock for anything over an NVidia 1050 Ti based cards. 1050!!!

  • Now these assholes will have to forgo adding their spying systems and resort to doing things the "old fashioned" (aka reliable) way.

  • It's not like TSMC or GloFlow or anyone (outside of unexpected downtime) has cut production. It sounds like car companies freaked out, and rather than stock pile a few extra processors during Covid-19, they cut chip orders (possibly triggering contract breaking clauses), and are now surprised that TSMC et al have sold off that reserved capacity to other people?

    This should be an easy problem for companies waiting on a couple hundred $ of chips who are trying to make $30K cars. Just pay the big premium to cut

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