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Jack Dorsey Defends Twitter's Trump Ban, Then Enthuses About Bitcoin (theverge.com) 171

After Twitter banned President Trump's account last week, the site and its executives, including Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, were largely silent in justifying their decision. That changed last night when Dorsey, in a series of tweets, explained that he felt banning Trump's account was the right move for the social network. The Verge reports: "Offline harm as a result of online speech is demonstrably real, and what drives our policy and enforcement above all," he wrote. Dorsey blamed Twitter's failure "to promote healthy conversation," acknowledged that Twitter needs to "look critically at inconsistencies of our policy and enforcement," and said that social platforms needed more transparency around moderation. Then, Dorsey plugged an effort to build a decentralized standard for social media he began in 2019 when he sought to hire five engineers to work on it. That's how, eight tweets into a thread on why his company banned Donald Trump, the CEO of Twitter managed to change the subject to his passion for bitcoin.

Banning the RealDonaldTrump Twitter account had "real and significant ramifications," Dorsey wrote. Dorsey said that the widespread suspension of the president by many platforms challenged the notion that if people didn't like Twitter's rules, they could simply go somewhere else. And though the president can issue a press release or call a press conference whenever he wishes -- or simply go on television -- Dorsey expressed concern that the enforcement actions might "erode a free and open global internet."

And that was when bitcoin came up. Dorsey is also CEO of Square, an internet payment company, that bought $50 million of bitcoin as part of a bet on cryptocurrency. Square has accepted bitcoin since 2014. According to Dorsey, bitcoin provides a model for a decentralized model for social media. Dorsey did not elaborate on how such a network might address Twitter's failures in moderation, creating healthy conversations, or provide for more consistent policy enforcment. "It's important that we acknowledge this is a time of great uncertainty and struggle for so many around the world," Dorsey wrote on Twitter. "Our goal in this moment is to disarm as much as we can, and ensure we are all building towards a greater common understanding, and a more peaceful existence on earth. I believe the internet and global public conversation is our best and most relevant method of achieving this."

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Jack Dorsey Defends Twitter's Trump Ban, Then Enthuses About Bitcoin

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  • The Arguments (Score:5, Insightful)

    by labnet ( 457441 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:29PM (#60945456)

    /. back in the day would defend free speech as a fundamental requirement for a society to function.
    Now I'm seeing a majority on /. saying, well they are a private company, so they can censor whomever they like.

    There are several problems with this notion
    1- When you become a default platform for communication, you are close to being a 'common carrier', so your censoring actions have big almost totalatarian effects.
    2- Forcing people off 'common carrier' forums forces them underground or onto platforms where the 'group speak' effect is worse. Ideas need rational counter arguments to force bad ideas to wither and good ideas to grow.
    3- You may nod your head at silencing trump, but next it will a Christian who believes marriage should be man/woman, or someone who argues an adult lusting after a child is wrong, or that merit trumps group identity. Its a slippery slope.

    Thus, the bar for free speech should be governed by law, not what the 'feelings' of a large social media company are.
    This bar should be high. eg Incitement to cause physical harm or engage in illegal activities.
    Let the courts deal with speech that goes to far, not what some social media companies current pet whim is.

    • Germany does it better, the government sends the platform a takedown notice to remove speech that is not protected.

      As for the /. change, I'm afraid it's the new generation, people that grew up with the notion that it is ok to trade some of the essential liberties for a little temporary safety.

      • It could also be more global influences working their way into the /. culture, or US culture in general. The US has a unique history and a unique perspective on liberty and freedom that naturally isn't shared by other countries around the world. Tech companies in particular have a multi-national component to them and in this age of limitless sharing it's natural that those views that were previously isolated and propagated without too much opposition are now impacted simply by exposure to more alternatives.

    • And once again, the First Amendment only applies to the government. The Framers never intended that private property owners had to provide platforms for any speech they didn't like. In fact, those property owners enjoy precisely the same First Amendment protections as the people who want to use their property for this purpose. That means, on their property, they can make the rules. What are you, a Communist?

      • The Framers were men of their time. They had no way to foresee the circumstances we now face.

        • by anegg ( 1390659 )

          The Framers were men of their time. They had no way to foresee the circumstances we now face.

          They didn't see the specific circumstances that are now in existence. But they knew all about the suppression of free speech, and limitations on assemblies. They organized themselves against their own government, and when they were done throwing off that government, they set up a government that explicitly made what they had chosen to do (illegally under their former government) legal under the government they set up, despite the fact that they were now in charge of that government. Unlike what many othe

      • This is cool as long as they don't take government money.

        The same goes for free speech on college campuses. Hillsdale and Liberty are basically the only two schools that refuse government money so they don't have to abide by the strings attached - it is possible.

        Meanwhile, Big Tech is balls-deep in government money. So, these aren't the "private companies" you're looking for.

        Anyway, our society values free speech which is why we insist on the government respecting it. The government neither creates free

        • This is cool as long as they don't take government money.

          This is cool as long as they don't take government grants to make their network accessible to all. Otherwise, don't like the government being their customer? Stop your government from giving them money. It's not like they're holding your government up at gunpoint. That's what governments do.

      • by anegg ( 1390659 )

        And once again, the First Amendment only applies to the government. The Framers never intended that private property owners had to provide platforms for any speech they didn't like.

        The 1st Amendment to the US Constitution protects, among other things, the people of the United States of America from having the government suppress speech. That amendment made it into the Constitution because the framers thought that the ideal of free speech was worth protecting. At the same time, those framers understood that people could be held accountable for their speech; we have libel and slander laws for this reason. Public courts using transparent procedures weigh in and determine whether someo

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by ludux ( 6308946 )
      If you're from back in the day then you should know better. Free speech does not constrain private property rights. Twitter is private property. This isn't a free speech issue, and the fact that you seem to think it is speaks poorly of your understanding of the issues. I really wander what happened to the older generation on /., their understanding of these simple legal and technical issues seems to be slipping.
      • Re:The Arguments (Score:5, Interesting)

        by labnet ( 457441 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:52PM (#60945628)

        I disagree.
        For example, my wife uses Facebook as her primary communication channel personally and for business. Banning her from that platform would have big social and economic consequences for her.
        For her demographic, Facebook IS a common carrier. Thus 'common carrier' rules should apply to services that become a default platform for communication.

        you, argue... well just use another platform... but there is no other platform for her business case and demographic... Facebook is it.

        Last week She asked her family to swap to Signal from Whatsapp. The response from all family was... too hard, were too old, oh but my husbands family are all on whats app so its too hard to change.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Facebook isn't a common carrier just because you believe it is.

          • by labnet ( 457441 )

            Facebook isn't a common carrier just because you believe it is.

            For all practical purposes it is. Facebook OWN my wifes demographic. When you become that powerful, different rules should apply (ie common carrier rules)

            • Sounds like your wife was foolish to become so invested in a platform she has no control over. Rather short-sighted, wouldn't you say?
            • Re:The Arguments (Score:4, Informative)

              by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday January 15, 2021 @07:09AM (#60947360) Homepage Journal

              Facebook isn't a common carrier just because you believe it is.

              For all practical purposes it is.

              It only superficially resembles a common carrier, but it clearly isn't one. A common carrier is either "a person or company that transports goods or passengers on regular routes at set rates" or "a company providing public telecommunications facilities." But they aren't providing telecommunications facilities, they are providing a service which you access via telecommunications facilities.

              Facebook is definitively not a common carrier by any definition.

        • "common carrier" refers to a dump pipe. Facebook is not nor can they be that, since if they tried they'd get overwhelmed with spam and racism.

          But they're also not a publisher, they don't write your wife's comments nor can they dictate to your wife what she writes beyond some high level Terms of Service.

          This is why Section 230 exists. FB & Twitter and /. and YouTube and the entire internet were an entirely new form of Mass Communication. They needed new laws to function. Without S230 they can't e
        • For example, my wife uses Facebook as her primary communication channel personally and for business.

          Your wife has chosen to put herself at Facebook's mercy. That choice was deliberate.

          For her demographic, Facebook IS a common carrier.

          No, it is not. Common carriers carry packages (or packets) whose contents they are not familiar with. That's why ISPs using DPI should not be considered common carriers.

          you, argue... well just use another platform... but there is no other platform for her business case and demographic... Facebook is it.

          So facebook makes available to her a whole market she otherwise wouldn't have access to her, and at no cost, and you don't think she should have to avoid inciting insurrections?

      • Twitter is private property. This isn't a free speech issue, and the fact that you seem to think it is speaks poorly of your understanding of the issues.

        No that means it isn't a first amendment issue. Most people accept that censorship is bad in itself, regardless of whether or not it is legal. Just because Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg can legally censor people they don't like doesn't make it morally okay to do so.

        This is the crux of the issue because for years these social media companies have proclaimed themselves to be champions of free speech. In fact just this week twitter itself put out a tweet crying freedom of expression [twitter.com] and the importance of ha

      • Gab was not only kicked off all hosting platforms, they also had visa and mastercard refuse to allow them to use credit cards to collect payments. They went so far as to even shut down card processing for the founder's wife's business that was unrelated to gab.

        This is serious. Really serious. You can argue that someone can always find hosting elsewhere (which at the scale Parler needs isn't easy) but card processing? No.

        And, no, this isn't like the religious freedom case with the Colorado bakery. There

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      First they came for the Qtards, but I said nothing because I wasn't a Q or a Tard.
      Then they came for the white supremacists, and I said nothing because I'm not a racist.
      Then they came for the Trumpers, and I said nothing because fuck those guys.
      Finally they didn't come for me, because I'm not an asshole who incited a coup attempt.
      Then everything went back to normal.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:44PM (#60945578)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I will never stop posting this link because people are too thick headed.

      https://i.redd.it/uazhmn3neta6... [i.redd.it]

      Nobody owes you a platform to speak from. Bottom line. Gab accepted him and he could use whitehouse.gov so what is the problem? Hell he could do a sit down with 60 minutes again.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
      1. Being a "Default Platform" does not remove your right to freedom of association. If you don't like it, create a national public access.

      2. But that means you don't have access to FB & Twitter's user base. You don't want speech, you want an audience.

      3. I have a right to be free of your speech. You can't, for example, force Netflix to carry and promote your film.

      4. Section 230 was explicitly created because the Internet created an entirely new form of mass communication. Companies that were nei
    • Yeah. Then we finished college, realized Ayn Rand was a crackpot, got real jobs, started families, realized there are people we care about having a future. The bullshit asymmetry principle is real. Free speech absolutism fails to produce liberty if the authoritarians are willing to devote significant effort to spamming authoritarian propaganda, and you can't afford to spend 4-5 times as much effort on following each one of them around debunking their every claim.
      1- Common carriage is taking a thing or a
    • That's quite a stretch, to assert that twitter is a common carrier. It's not the definitive default for everyone and there are countless other ways to get a message out there. Half a billion users seems like a lot, but no doubt a huge number of those are automated account. Plus there is the commonly repeated notion that most of the tweets come from quite a small percentage of users. Yes it's popular and you can argue its importance, but even before this administration it wasn't much of a tool for the Presid

    • by tri44id ( 576891 )

      There are several problems with this notion 1- When you become a default platform for communication, you are close to being a 'common carrier', so your censoring actions have big almost totalatarian effects.

      So, monopolies are bad. What a surprise!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Your memory is faulty. Back in the day Slashdot was fed up with trolling and spamming and supported efforts by Taco to clamp down on them.

      One particular thing that Taco spent a lot of time trying to stop was pornographic stories about himself and other staff. They kept re-wording them to get past the filters. Oh and how could we forget the GNAA.

    • There are several problems with this notion

      There are several problems with your notions.

      1- When you become a default platform for communication, you are close to being a 'common carrier', so your censoring actions have big almost totalatarian effects.

      No, that's when you become a telco or equivalent, e.g. an ISP. Or, of course, a deliverer of packages. What do these types of entities have in common? They don't know what you're sending. So absolutely not.

      2- Forcing people off 'common carrier' forums

      THERE IS NO SUCH THING, and you are deliberately abusing a phrase with specific legal meaning to try to make an invalid argument. So absolutely fucking not.

      3- You may nod your head at silencing trump,

      Yes, I definitely approve of removing those who incite insurrections meant to destroy democracy from the

  • Hollow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tacokill ( 531275 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:30PM (#60945462)
    the problem is not that Twitter has rules, rather, the problem is the selective enforcement of them
    • And that's most definitely a reason you should find another platform. If you don't like that the bar throws some patrons out for being rowdy, but Mr. Jones, who leaves three digit tips every night, is allowed to stay even if he's banging on the table all night long, is certainly not fair, but your remedy is to find another bar.

      This freedom thing is tough, particularly when you grow up and found out you're not the only one with rights.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I wonder if it is possible to ever enforce rules consistently on such a large platform. Facebook tries, it has training for staff but they still get it wrong. Sometimes it's mistakes, sometimes it's the cumulative effect of being exposed to the worst of humanity 8 hours a day and just wanting to do a tiny bit of good.

  • The idea that a company built up in one market can "pivot" and switch to a new market is taught extensively in modern business schools. It doesn't work well in practice. Is that what this CEO is trying? It may be effective for him, personally, though quite useless for other Twitter employees. President Trump has been generating revenue for them thorugh his blunt and often controversial messages since long before his political campaign began.

  • by NotARealUser ( 4083383 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:45PM (#60945590)

    I am part Native American. If the same logic was going against some protected class like ours, everyone would be on our side. Even if some of our fellow people committed stupid violence.

    The best way to preserve freedom is to make sure you can have a vigorous debate in the public square. Even if I do not support Trump, I would need to acknowledge that the best chance for peace in society is to not censor ideas. It is better for everybody to keep a healthy discussion, not just push ideas underground.

    When people stop feeling like their ideas matter, they lash out and hurt people. We need to make sure we can always talk to each other.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • back in 2015. So your argument doesn't really hold water. Trump was allowed to do what he did because he was great for ratings and engagement. In other words money.

      As for "protective class", in general those are things you have little to no control over. Race, Sex, Age, Sexual Orientation, etc, etc. "Being a racist asshole who incites violence" isn't a protected class because, well, you can just stop, and you lose nothing except the support and adoration of racist assholes looking to be incited to viole
    • The best way to preserve freedom is to make sure you can have a vigorous debate in the public square.

      That's the traditional argument in favor of free speech. However, in recent years we've seen instances where this breaks down. Because of the way news spreads these days, people can get caught up in lies and conspiracy theories, and no matter of debate or free exchange of ideas seems to be capable of changing their minds.

      The free exchange of ideas, in combination with certain technical capabilities and pressure on companies to make money while not caring about the damage this causes, has damaged societies.

  • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:52PM (#60945632) Homepage Journal

    Offline harm as a result of online speech is demonstrably real

    That's justification for abolition of the First Amendment — this argument applies equally to government and private organizations alike.

    To me, this automatically invalidates the argument entirely. Evidently not to Mr. Dorsey — nor the majority of Slashdotters. A shame, really.

    • You need to recognize America and it's constitution are a dead letter. Believe me, I'm old enough to have lived in America, and freedom of speech was so foundational to that country that this could never have been a question there.

      The fact that it is tells me I'm no longer there.

    • That's justification for abolition of the First Amendment

      No it's not you anti-freespeech moron.

      Free speech is massively powerful. Anything powerful can be used for good or ill. If you deny its power you deny its importance. Denying its importance is the first step for genuine state driven censorship.

      So from all of those who love free speech: kindly fuck off and stop trying to convince people it's unimportant.

  • Am the only one who thinks it's hilarious that he's having to use a series of tweets to explain something? It's almost as though 140 characters is a bizarre, arbitrary, and crippling constraint. Imagine how he felt, having to do that, thinking "this sure would be easier to do, if I could just write it, instead of having to tweet it."

    • Going in front of the media would require him to answer questions. That sure as hell won't be happening.

    • you can break it into small, digestible chunks. Not everyone will make it through the entire thread so you put the most important stuff (and also the stuff the most people will agree with) up top and work your way down.

      There's nothing really all that limiting about it for political discourse (it wouldn't work for in depth analysis, but that's not what this is).
  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Thursday January 14, 2021 @06:36PM (#60945808)

    Twitter and Facebook have seen $51 billion in combined market value wiped out since booting Trump [msn.com] from their platforms.

    • Yeah, it's almost like a bunch of people finally figured out that "social media" as it is run currently has a problem with fraud that is so bad that it can be used to convince people to take illegal actions based on a false narrative. Seems like they may need to work on that for a bit.
    • A conscience can be expensive.
  • Fuck that guy.

  • Getting pretty sick of hearing about Trump. Unfortunately we will keep hearing about the Trump boogieman for at least 4 years.

I THINK THEY SHOULD CONTINUE the policy of not giving a Nobel Prize for paneling. -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

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