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Software Education

University of Florida Asks Students To Use App To Report Professors Who Don't Teach In Person (edsurge.com) 87

jyosim writes: Professors at the University of Florida are outraged that the university essentially put a "tattle" button on a campus safety app that lets students report if professors aren't teaching in person. Apparently more than 100 professors there have asked to teach online for health reasons but have been denied, and administrators worry that they'll just teach online anyway. Professors feel the app is akin to a "police state." "The university spokesperson said that administrators had heard that some professors 'would simply refuse to teach an in person class if that's what they were supposed to be doing,' so they added the feature, which rolled out this week as spring classes began," reports EdSurge. An email was sent to all students on Monday that encouraged them to use the app if they saw any 'inconsistencies' in course delivery."

In response, Daniel A. Smith, chair of the university's political-science department, wrote in a letter: "Emulation of police states is not a good look for a university devoted to the education of democratic citizens. What sort of message does this send to our students?" On Twitter, professor Lisa S. Scott said she was "more than a little disturbed" by the move, adding, "@UF do better. We've been working our asses off for you through all of this."
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University of Florida Asks Students To Use App To Report Professors Who Don't Teach In Person

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    The US slips closer and closer to East Germany.
    • Re:Every day (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:52PM (#60949764)

      Or the post-Weimar regime. Is it becuase UF administrators have the far right believe that Covid is a myth? Remember, authoritarianism is not exclusive to the far left, it is also rampant on the far right. The further away you get from the center, the more that their unnatural policies need muscle to be enforced.

      • Remember, authoritarianism is not exclusive to the far left, it is also rampant on the far right. The further away you get from the center, the more that their unnatural policies need muscle to be enforced.

        Spot on, and despite everything that's transpired, it still astonishes me that moderates on both sides have a difficult time understanding this basic tenet.

        Listening to a local talk radio show today, the hosts were quoting a tucker carlson guest who reminded viewers that the left will use the Capital riot to pigeonhole all Republicans as racist idiots in an attempt to dehumanize them. Minutes later, the show's moderator belittled a "progressive liberal" caller as the epitome of the Democrat's most left lea

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Geekbot ( 641878 )

          There was no authoritarianism. Here the professors were hired to do a job. The university worried they would not do their job. The students would not report a professor that was not doing their job because the professor has authority over the student. The university gives a way for the student to report the person who has authority over him who is refusing to provide services that were purchased by the student.

          I'm fine with teaching online. I'm fine with teaching in person. I'm not fine with someone taking

          • Re:Every day (Score:4, Insightful)

            by AleRunner ( 4556245 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @07:27PM (#60950170)

            The authoritarianism charge is probably not the point. This is about basic decency and doing your duty to humanity.

            Currently we have a serious problem because we know there are a number of important variants of SARS-COV-2 which are slightly different from the point of view of the immune system. Of the three antibodies used in PCR tests to detect the virus, one stopped working in the UK (the other two are fine) and is being used to detect the spread of the variant. We know that the South African and Brazilian variants have more changes still. We don't know about other variants in many places because genomic testing is pretty limited. Simply put, the virus still changes slowly, but important changes are happening faster than predicted.

            If we have a low level of the virus when we vaccinate, quite likely we vaccinate once and wipe out the virus completely. If we have high levels, then an immunologically different mutant is likely to be out there and escape. That mutant will be evolving against the vaccine and travelling through people who have partial vaccination (e.g. early after their injection) and in the end it may evolve to evade all natural immunity. When that happens then we may well start the whole epidemic once again from the beginning.

            People who are needlessly spreading the virus are a problem for everyone. That includes these university administrators. The professor's job is to educate their students. If they can do that remote then they should not be working face to face. We're pretty close and a little bit of cooperation can mean we all become free to do things more or less like we used to.

          • I'm fine with teaching online. I'm fine with teaching in person.

            I'm fine with either one, too... that's very reasonable. Look I don't have a dog in the fight, but it occurs to me that populations of professors and students are made up of individuals from both camps: Camp Err on the Side of Caution and Camp Keep the Economy Open.

            We can all agree teaching in person, in the classroom, is the preferred method of imparting wisdom to the next generation. Tempered with the current pandemic, you can certainly understand why certain people would sacrifice some physical presence

            • Re:Every day (Score:4, Interesting)

              by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @08:57PM (#60950460)

              We can all agree teaching in person, in the classroom, is the preferred method of imparting wisdom to the next generation.

              Actually, we don't all agree on that.

              When we went into lockdown back in March, my kids did e-learning for the rest of the semester. Their grades improved and they learned more.

              They wasted less time getting dressed for school and commuting to and from. They wasted less time socializing. That left more time for learning.

              If there was something in a lecture that they misunderstood, they could rewind and watch it again. Many teachers used the media creatively and incorporated graphics and animations into their lectures.

              Should we have a thousand mediocre teachers all give the live lecture? Or should we pick the single very best teacher, and broadcast the same lecture to students in a thousand classes?

              If I could move my kids to permanent e-learning, I would.

              • by mysidia ( 191772 )

                If I could move my kids to permanent e-learning, I would.

                This ought to be an option.. Permanent remote e-learning. The educators don't even need to work from or live in the same state as the student.

                This would reduce a large number of safety things schools have to worry about normally, since there's no longer a massive number of people concentrated in one place - "school shootings," for example, aren't a worry when everything's remote - problem solved.

                Also, Imagine the massive portion of education

                • I suspect the people that are against remote learning are the same ones who oppose remote work. and for the same micromanaging and control freak reasons
              • You can. It's called "Home Schooling". If you've found a source of good, free educational material that matches your state's required curriculum, why not just call it home schooling and quit worrying about the politics and confusing decisions of your local school district. You can always return your kids to the public school system in two or three years if you're worried about social interactions, etc.
            • I'm fine with either one, too... that's very reasonable. Look I don't have a dog in the fight

              WTF?

              The individualistic attitude is fundamentally incorrect during a pandemic. You absolutely do have a dog in this race. Are you (a) in favour of people unnecessarily spreading a deadly, infectious disease or (b) not. Sure it seems like it's a long way and other people right now, but how long do you think it will stay that way? Would you like to place a wager: not on whether the new variants will reach your town bu

          • by shess ( 31691 )

            There was no authoritarianism. Here the professors were hired to do a job. The university worried they would not do their job. The students would not report a professor that was not doing their job because the professor has authority over the student. The university gives a way for the student to report the person who has authority over him who is refusing to provide services that were purchased by the student.

            Any university who hired professors with a clause to do in-person teaching during a pandemic was truly forward-thinking in a way that seems a little unlikely. I wonder if they're required to continue teaching as normal during an active shooter event?

      • Or the post-Weimar regime.

        dude, that does not get you around Godwin's Law, debate is over, you lose

      • The left can sit on this finger, the right can sit on something bigger
    • florida man.
      spotted teaching at u f

    • Interesting thoughts
  • Florida... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Major_Disorder ( 5019363 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:47PM (#60949754)
    I just knew it would be Florida. The stupidity of this is beyond comprehension. What part of Global pandemic, that is killing people, did they not understand?
  • What about the exam proctoring software that everyone was forced to use? They can remove the button and instead have cameras in the classroom that use unknown, unverified and very closed source algorithms to determine if the professor is not only in the room but teaching the right material. The students will be in charge of the footage and the results from it, and the professors will never be given a chance to explain the outcome.

    Who could possible argue this system?
    • Closed-source software and secret algorithms are fundamentally incompatible with the goals of a university. The fact that it exists there, means there is an ethical lapse somewhere within the school's leadership.
      • I'm very aware, and we could go into that discussion any time you want! I'm referencing the e-proctoring software that can determine if you're cheating through completely unknown means.
      • So wait, are you suggesting that all software produced by university is open source or maybe just public universities? That sounds good to me but seems unbelievable.

        I imagine universities are okay with closed source software so long as it is there closed software. Universities are a lot like big business in that both love all the power.

      • by quall ( 1441799 )

        And what are the goals of a university other than education and job preparation? What's unethical about closed-source software and secret algorithms? I don't even see what those tools have to do with education.

    • Well, maybe they think that professors must be in the classrooms but maintenance personnel who would install the cameras are far too valuable to risk with a virus expsure? Then they'd have to have someone do the auditing, which costs money, and why spend money when you have students at a work force who pay you for the privilege of doing the job?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:01PM (#60949808)
    Is the school willing to accept full liability (any non-remitted loss of wages, pain and suffering &c) if the instructor can convince a jury there's a good chance that they got COVID while on campus?
  • Tough... If you teach your class as expected there is no problem.

    I'm sure students are violated at every turn and that was ok. One look at them and they realize it's not so nice, but I bet they keep doing it to students.

    • Re:Tough? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Xylantiel ( 177496 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @07:47PM (#60950246)
      You are in no position to make this pronouncement. Some universities have just implemented a 6-foot distancing, which is not sufficient for long periods of time in indoor spaces due to airborne transmission. Some rooms are just too small (not enough air volume). And these are precisely the same faculty that most likely think that the students should be treated respectably as well. I know one university that isn't even notifying students if another student who was in an enclosed room with them for hours reports they had covid. And when the faculty tried to do it themselves because this is an obvious violation of the student's rights, they were told not to by the administration.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by msauve ( 701917 )
      Yep. No sympathy - "Professors feel the app is akin to a 'police state.'" Not teaching in person when required is an actual ethics violation. They can always give up tenure and quit, if they want.
  • by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:16PM (#60949844)

    Classrooms are the worst case scenario for Covid with many people being in an enclosed space. Now this is slashdot and we like to pretend that Covid isn't a big deal, what with 400,000 dead and hospitals turning away patients.

    https://www.latimes.com/califo... [latimes.com]

    Colleges are putting pressure on the professors because they won't refund or lower tuition. My health is way more important than my employer throwing a hissy fit.

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      First up the reason public hospitals (NOT PRIVATE) are turning people away, is because their ability to deal with epidemic or any sort of major emergency was purposefully eliminated to provide tax cuts (ohh look empty epidemic wards and emergency with lots of injuries, lets shut them down and save tax money, they only serve the poor, so fuck em, let them die, we can go to private hospitals, that will never be overloaded).

      Of the many dead in the USA, how many died as a result of lack of universal health car

    • Now this is slashdot and we like to pretend that Covid isn't a big deal, what with 400,000 dead and hospitals turning away patients.

      https://www.latimes.com/califo... [latimes.com]

      Covid is a big deal, but ... you are putting those darn Florida right-wingers in their place by citing Covid mayhem in ... LA?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Thaelon ( 250687 )

      400,000 dead sounds scary until you realize that ~2,700,000 Americans die annually pre-covid. And they're attributing all deaths *with* covid as covid deaths.

      Would it surprise you to know that the population of America has *grown* since the pandemic started? Because it has.

      The media loves it's scary headlines and not providing context.

      • by yarbo ( 626329 )
        And how many die annually now? We have a measure for that, it's called excess deaths. If deaths are going to be falsely attributed to Covid, you wouldn't have excess deaths. The excess deaths for 2020 exceed the official Covid death toll. https://www.nytimes.com/intera... [nytimes.com]
  • The student is the paying customer. Reporting that the professor isn't doing his job is no different that a customer complaining that he isn't getting what he paid for. Calling that akin to a police state doesn't say much for the professor..

    • BS. Their degree will still say "University of Florida" on it in the end. And if anyone looks at their transcript they will see this course was taken at a major research university and not a cheap online college. While I think the police state metaphor is extreme, it is forcing an employee into an unsafe workplace. Not really an example that the university is supposed to be setting.
      • It's being a dick to your employees.

      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        it is forcing an employee into an unsafe workplace

        If that's the case the professors can challenge the safety of their workplace and pursue a change in the policy.

        Just not turning up to work is however unprofessional and unethical. If you want to panic and run around screaming that the air is poison then go right ahead, but be fucking honest about it.

    • Agreed. I think it is beyond stupid though that the professors are expect to teach in person in class during a pandemic, so that is the real issue here that they should be outraged about and work out with their employers. Trying to keep it a "secret" that they are doing virtual classes and then being pissed about being caught seems childish beyond belief. They need to work this out in the open with their employer, and not let the students deal with this.
      • Agreed. I think it is beyond stupid though that the professors are expect to teach in person in class during a pandemic, so that is the real issue here that they should be outraged about and work out with their employers. Trying to keep it a "secret" that they are doing virtual classes and then being pissed about being caught seems childish beyond belief. They need to work this out in the open with their employer, and not let the students deal with this.

        I agree. If the class has been scheduled as in-person the professor should be there unless the school changes it.

  • I've worked at an R1 research University for many many years. One thing I know is that tenured professors are the real center of power, no matter how it looks. We have a 'faculty senate' which is essentially a labor union. If a decision is made in that body then that's the way it is, because a University does not function without faculty.

    So, in this case, I have to think that their 'faculty senate' agreed to the University rules about being present. And, if that's the case, who are the students actually

    • Not So at UF (Score:5, Informative)

      by Slicker ( 102588 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @11:51PM (#60950808)

      The Faculty senate here is very much advisory and largely disregarded. The president and provost have supreme power and are very hostile toward tenured faculty... regularly reducing the number of tenured positions. Also, a strong push to bring in grant money, at almost any cost.

      Almost any kind of advancement now depends primarily on how much grant money one brings in, at UF.

  • This is the manager think of corporate america. Managers and CEOS are irrelevant if people dont see them because they give no value or contribute in any other way. Of course their bullshit talk isnt a value either, thats why managers are so anti remote work, because that shows them for being the basically ineffective parasites that they are.
  • And the other college in Gainesville (Santa Fe College) is doing classes in-person only if it is required due to equipment needs, etc. Things like dance, various health science labs and clinicals (dental, nursing, radiology tech, nuke med tech, ultrasound, resp. therapy, etc), some IT classes (for Cisco routers and other expensive equipment), etc. Even then those are somewhat split and done at reduced capacity, just more often to get the students through the work.

    We're also still doing our "normal" onlin

  • Like most other universities, University of Florida is governed via a democratic process. I don't mean the state of Florida, I mean the University of Florida Faculty Senate. The University of Florida has a Constitution, that lays out how the Trustees, State, and Faculty Senate share governance, including how the Senate has the right to adjust on campus rules and policies via legislation.

    Ok, so your representative government has decided that it is critical that you perform part of your job in person, put i

  • The students are paying for lectures and an education. The university has stipulated that professors will show up in the classrooms and teach. The students are taking attendance for the university. What could possibly be wrong about that? If the professors are not discharging their responsibilities their employer should know and take appropriate action. Small business owners in the US are being fined and, in some cases, jailed for not following the repressive instructions of local officials. Why shoul

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by LiquidAvatar ( 772805 ) on Friday January 15, 2021 @11:39PM (#60950790) Journal
    Couldn't they at least let the students make those reports in person?
  • Why would students need an application (!) for safety?
    Why does the way a professor teaches be mentioned in that application? What is the safety implication?
    Why do students need to report? Why can't he university have oversight?
  • What a great way to encourage more independent-thinking students to download and install an app on their phones.

    What the hell else does this app do? Gut instinct suggests it’s going to carry a whole bunch of functionality that will be spying on the students.

    Just say no.
  • If a professor is taking attendance and making it part of the grade, I don't see the difference.
  • police state indeed ...

    ignatius

  • Um (Score:1, Insightful)

    In response, Daniel A. Smith, chair of the university's political-science department, wrote in a letter: "Emulation of police states is not a good look for a university devoted to the education of democratic citizens.

    "Now, excuse me while I go cheer on the de-platforming of everyone that I disagree with."

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

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