Microsoft Joins $2 Billion Deal With GM To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars (axios.com) 121
Microsoft is joining GM, Honda and others in a $2 billion investment round in Cruise to help commercialize its self-driving cars. The deal bumps Cruise's valuation to $30 billion, from $19 billion last year. From a report: The investment is part of a broader commitment by GM and Cruise to use Microsoft's Azure cloud-computing platform across their companies, especially as they roll out increasingly complex vehicles that rely on digital technologies. Self-driving vehicles devour massive amounts of data to operate safely. They collect and process data from cameras, radar and lidar sensors for perception, location mapping and decision-making. Commercialization requires even more data to optimize routes and to create consumer-facing apps and websites. "Microsoft, as the gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology, will be a force multiplier for us as we commercialize our fleet of self-driving, all-electric, shared vehicles," said Cruise CEO Dan Ammann.
Are you fucking kidding me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone remember this? At a computer expo, Bill Gates compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.
For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Apple would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
Source: https://www.hcs.harvard.edu/pn... [harvard.edu]
Re: (Score:1)
More relevantly, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION REACH EFFECTIVE SETTLEMENT ON ANTITRUST LAWSUIT [justice.gov]
Settlement Provides Enforcement Measures to Stop Microsoft's Unlawful Conduct, Prevent Its Recurrence, and Restore Competition
Calling Microsoft the "gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology" is like calling Hitler the "gold standard in kind treatment of Jews".
BSOD (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
More relevantly, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION REACH EFFECTIVE SETTLEMENT ON ANTITRUST LAWSUIT [justice.gov]
Settlement Provides Enforcement Measures to Stop Microsoft's Unlawful Conduct, Prevent Its Recurrence, and Restore Competition
Calling Microsoft the "gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology" is like calling Hitler the "gold standard in kind treatment of Jews".
Well, to be fair Hitler gave a lot of attention to the Jews, MS never gave any attention to anything but their bottom line. Yes, that was not the attention anybody would want, but in my book, deliberately evil is better than carelessly evil. With the first case, it is at least amply clear to everybody that this is an enemy to fight. With the second case far too many people do not understand what is going on.
Re: (Score:1)
I took this statement to be the pronouncement that the gold standard is dead. Long live Bitcoin. I, for one, welcome our new Crypto overlords.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, gold has at least something like 50% of its price in industrial value. It cannot drop below that. BTC is worth absolutely nothing once the fantasy collapses. People have a history to stick to deranged fantasies though, sometimes for thousands of years.
Re:Are you fucking kidding me? (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, Microsoft is still the same old corporation that has shit all over computing, and is still doing so.
Spyware in windows 10 proves nothing has changed at Microsoft, except the success of their PR department.
Re: (Score:3)
it even rhymes
www.kernel.org
Re: (Score:3)
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
This actually is the case now...
Re: (Score:2)
And much like having to click start to shut down but the reverse, you have to hold the brake (stop) pedal before the start button will start the car, even though there is an electric parking brake and a park pawl (in the case of automatic transmissions, which dominate all markets) also stopping the car from moving, and there is no direct link between the accelerator pedal and the throttle flap and/or fuel delivery (including diesels that don't have throttles, which used to be all of them — now some of
Re: (Score:2)
Funny, I hold the clutch pedal in my car for it to start when I push the button.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Cars are Dumbed Down (Score:3)
"10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
"This actually is the case now..."
"6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light."
This is also the case now on some cars.
Re: (Score:2)
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
This actually is the case now...
Windows hasn't actually labelled that button with start since Windows XP (2001). Vista (2006) and newer just have the microsoft logo. The menu may still be called the start menu, but at least it hasn't said it in ~15 years!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Yep. Apple robs you and expects you to join the cult, but at least they deliver something solid in return. MS is less invasive but takes your money for delivering utter crap at all fronts.
Re: (Score:3)
My favorite comparison: Apple is the cool architect who designs a beautiful house for you, but convinces you that you don't need closets or a pantry.
And the bathroom will have one of those huge "designer" sinks with no shelf around it to put little bottles on and even though the bowl is two feet across the faucet/tap will be 1cm from the edge, because having it in the middle of the bowl looks ugly.
(You know the ones I mean...)
The excuse will be "You're washing them wrong".
That was, what, a quarter century ago? (Score:2)
Also, 6 and 10 are true today. 2 might require an over the air upgrade if you're using SuperCruise. 8 sometimes happens if the battery in the key fob is weak.
Re: (Score:3)
5 is already true for Cruise - it can only self-drive on US freeways & tollways.
9 is edging towards truth with Tesla where "One pedal driving" takes some getting used to - and "Cruise Control" is entirely different. Even worse, you sometimes need to re-learn after a software update!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Are you fucking kidding me? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm being over-the-top sarcastic -- but I have heretofore seen precisely zero real evidence that so-called 'self driving cars' are anything other than marketing hype for a not-anywhere-near-ready 'technology' based on a half-assed excuse for 'AI' that has zero actual cognitive ability and therefore has no business operating a motor vehicle on public roads. Driving in the real world requires a fully-functioning mind, with the ability to reason, not just 'decision trees' based on 'training data'. If it has to pull to the side of the road and stop because it's 'training data' doesn't have an if/then statement covering what's in front of it, and it has to 'phone home' so a human being can remotely drive it past whatever it is? IT IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR READY. If you can walk down the street wearing a T-shirt that has a 'STOP' sign on it and the car actually stops, then IT IS NOT READY. If you can put graffitti or some little sticker on a real 'STOP' sign and the car doesn't think it's a real 'STOP' sign, then IT IS NOT READY. And so on, and so on, and so on.
But Microsoft getting involved with this? That's the real nail-in-the-coffin, right there.
Come back when they have REAL AI and then we'll talk about 'self driving cars' again. Otherwise get away from me with that shit.
Re: (Score:2)
Come back when they have REAL AI and then we'll talk about 'self driving cars' again. Otherwise get away from me with that shit.
I don't know what "REAL AI" is, nor do I think there's any public, academic, or industry accepted definition. I do know that what is "real" AI is frequentluy a moving target.
I also know that many seeming impossible problems have been solved more rapidly that we could have imagined. AlphaGo is a good example. When I was studying CS about in the early 2000s, it was doubted whether a computer program could beat a Go master in any of our lifetimes, the search space was just too damn big. Even in 2015, nobody be
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's highly probable that there is much less "cognition" required to be a good driver than you might imagine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Fair enough! No way to know other than see what happens over the next 5, 10, 20, etc., years.
I'll go on the record that I think 10 years is probably pretty close to when realistically capable (meaning it works in most environments, most of the time, without requiring constant driver attention) full self-driving is widely available.
I've ridden in a Tesla once, about 1.5 years ago, with the then-current autonomous driving active. It was unnerving. I understand the most recent updates is magnitudes more powerf
Re: (Score:2)
Do you ever just 'go for a drive'? No particular destination, just drive around, see the sights? Forget about that with a SDC, it'll only take you from point A to point B and that's it.
In a hurry? Running a little lat
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with probably 2/3 of what you just wrote.
I am COMPLETELY against self-driving cars that don't have controls, and I don't think that will be realistic for most people any time soon (possibly taxi/uber type vehicles in big cities. Even in that case I imagine safety concerns would necessitate emergency controls.).
I COMPLETELY agree that we need bad drivers removed from the roads. Near where I live there is a woman who is quite clearly mentally ill. Seemingly in an effort to cause car accidents she will
Re: (Score:2)
I think the reality of SDCs will leave people flat because it's so incredibly hyped that when they get them they'll find out how much it's all smoke and mirrors. Also as previously stated: abject terror when it hits you that you have zero control.
Re: Are you fucking kidding me? (Score:2)
It doesnâ(TM)t require a lot, all it needs to do is recognize road signs (AI is already shown to be more accurate than humans in that). And the second thing it requires is reliable 4D imaging. 4D imaging is basically the ability to create an accurate model of the environment outside the car and knowledge of the speed, size, and trajectory of every object. If any object is on a collision trajectory just brake accelerate or maneuver away safely. The difficulty is getting accurate environmental mapping wi
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What does reason mean? Assuming you mean something beyond what AI and known algorithms can currently do .. the answer is nope.
There might be esoteric edge cases where it needs to reason (like detecting someone planted a landmine, a mattress on the car in front about to fall off, or someone aiming a gun), but those scenarios are extremely rare and it's not clear a human would detect those in all situations. The mattress situation is common enough that it could be in a list of things to watch out for (if ther
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh dear (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft, as the gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology,
Yeah, that...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
After how bad Microsoft fucked up stereos in Fords (Score:2, Insightful)
now they're going to be DRIVING GM cars.
Seriously, they fucked up Ford stereos so bad Ford abandoned them for Blackberry's OS.
I really, really wish I had the Blackberry instead of Microsoft stereo in my van.
Someone once asked me if it was like having an iPod in my van. I replied "think early prototype rejected Zune." I have to unplug the battery in my van occasionally to reset the fucking stereo when it crashes - and I can't seem to find a fuse or relay to do it with to prevent me from having to yank the
Re: (Score:2)
Not to mention the horrible UI, where the screen is so full of options that I can't even possibly use that I have to scroll to get to bluetooth, with no way to filter or even rearrange the options. Tried at least having music on an sd card, and it works sometimes, but other times it refuses to play anything while it has to re-index the disk randomly (despite the sd card not changing at all).
Microsoft notoriously half-assed things like Windows Phone, and any hapless 'embedded' vendor that made the mistake of
Re: (Score:2)
I have a flash drive in my van FULL of music. All I can figure out how to do is hit "next". No folder browsing, no tag sorting, no sorting by album/folder, not just "next" alphabetically.
What is your destination?
(scroll through each and every street address in the U.S. one "next" at a time)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Now it's literal: (Score:5, Funny)
Blue Screen of Death.
Re: (Score:2)
BSBD (Blue Screen BEFORE Death).
Re: (Score:2)
I can't imagine anything more terrifying than not having any devices in a vehicle that allow me to take control of it.
Seriously: imagine you're driving down the freeway and suddenly you realize the steering wheel does precisely nothing anymore. Then you try the brake pedal, and
Electrify first maybe ? (Score:1)
Democratization of technology the open source way. (Score:2)
"Microsoft, as the gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology, will be a force multiplier for us as we commercialize our fleet of self-driving, all-electric, shared vehicles," said Cruise CEO Dan Ammann.
So when will we be getting our open-source self-driving cars?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My Linux desktop will never piss billions of dollars down the drain on a self driving car that no user of that Linux desktop ever asked for.
Google, Apple and Microsoft will. And keep their source closed to the extent that it benefits them.
Re: (Score:2)
We don't need 'self driving cars'. We need people to be properly trained and educated to operate motor vehicles competently and safely, and be rigorously tested to ensure that they can and will do so. Then our problems on the roads will be solved.
Re: (Score:2)
In truth, the very concept of "source code" ceases to exist with AI. You have a blank AI - just a billion 0.5 weights...then you train the crap out of it and you have a billion random-looking numbers. That's it...that's all you have, There simply isn't any source code to share.
The "blue screen of death" just got more real (Score:5, Insightful)
MS has a long-term history of shoddy, 2nd rate engineering, ignoring established solutions that work and of boundless arrogance coupled with astonishing incompetence. They cannot even reliably update the OS they completely designed themselves, for crying out loud. These people have no place in anything that requires security or safety.
Re: (Score:2)
The competition includes Tesla, whose "self driving" tech has been in beta for more than half a decade and killed a few people already. Apparently we were wrong about automotive tech needing to be super reliable and properly debugged before being released.
Re: (Score:3)
The competition includes Tesla, whose "self driving" tech has been in beta for more than half a decade and killed a few people already. Apparently we were wrong about automotive tech needing to be super reliable and properly debugged before being released.
Well, it does not need to be super-reliable. It just needs to be significantly better than an average human driver, who do kill and maim quite a few people all the time. Also, to be fair, the Tesla deaths are primarily people that listened (apparently not very well) to Tesla marketing instead of reading the manual and hence thought they had SAE Level 4 when really it was SAE Level 2.
No, avg = terrible (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's a pretty short timeline (Score:3)
between when "self driving cars" first become available, and most people realize they don't need to buy a car, they can just order one to come and pick them up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The theory behind that supposition would be that people *really* want just an Uber, but the human operator makes it more expensive. Renting a car is a hassle because you have to go to wherever the car is and get it, and have to return it to designated spots. So the theory would be renting a self-driving car would be more uber-like, where the car shows up wherever you like, and you can just get out wherever you like and it'll go where it's supposed to be, but without having to pay for the human driver.
This s
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Anyways I wouldn't say "most" people in the US, for many many years.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So...you grab your two kiddie car seats and one booster seat - and you call you RoboTaxi. You fart around for 10 minutes installing the car seats - you ride five minutes to the child care place - remove the car seats again - drop your kids off, then carry two car seats and a booster seat and call another RoboTaxi. Now you have to go to work...well, I guess you can stuff the car seats under your desk while you work...then, on the way home, more car seat installing and uninstalling. If you want to stop a
Re: (Score:2)
Also you are ignoring the fact most people use their car like a backpack/handbag. I can believe in heavily urbaised areas being able to have a car arrive when you need it for a long trip would be perfect. But for Bob in the suburbs who has 3 kids he needs a van for work and his wife has childseats and a pram. I think the market will split but if you can afford I think phytologically people are adverse to sharing.
Re: (Score:2)
No, there will be a long timeline, because the first "self driving" cars will be level 3, and for a robotaxi you need a very solid level 5.
Do you though? Truly?
A Level 5 system needs to be able to handle practically any scenario, but it probably isn't needed for everything. Take these 2 scenarios.
Scenario A:
Downtown Manhattan. I need to call a cab and have it pick me up at the corner of 3rd and 13th and then drop me off in front of Penn Station.
Scenario B:
Downtown Manhattan. I need to call a cab and have it pick me up at the corner of 3rd and 13th and then drive me to upstate New York and drop me off in front of a house on a private dirt road.
Where do you want to go today? (Score:3)
Oh no. (Score:2)
— Capone.
How about on-topic comments? (Score:5, Interesting)
The first wave of comments were just bashing and automotive-illiterate rants. Dicedot has been in decline for quite a while but posters should at least consider sticking to subjects they know about instead of stupidly hallucinating MSFT will somehow impose Windows as control software on GM, who have built highly successful vehicles for over a century in their various incarnations.
When BEVs truly arrive they'll be as easy to service or have serviced independently as conventional vehicles because the traditional automotive business model is far superior to the walled garden phone and personal computer model which is all about vendor lock. GM customers, especially fleet users, expect different and more options than rich Tesla customers who rarely turn a wrench. That's a huge advantage for those of us who support Right To Repair because even if GM slow-leaks information there will be more than enough techy enthusiasts to attack any problems. Tech may be magic to morons but not to mechanics. The Tesla model is outstanding for Tesla's current market but there are many more markets than their niche and billions of dollars to be made.
Re: (Score:2)
You're either an MS or GM employee. Microsoft's long and varied history of screwups, which still continues today (Win10 updates, anyone?), is totally relevant here. I would think long and hard before I purchased a vehicle run by MS software.
I'm a multibrand mechanic (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been wrenching on anything that moved (from jet fighters on down) and many things that don't since the late 1970s and shill for no one.
Windows 10 is not relevant to RTOS used for control systems. It may be used for infotainment systems but other OS are already mature and there's no logical business case for running a desktop OS (or one of MSFTs crippled abortion versions) on a modern vehicle. GM will of course get a vote since they will be manufacturing the result.
I hate Windows like every good Slashdotter but that doesn't mean MSFT money invested in GM must go to traditional MS software.
Re: (Score:2)
other OS are already mature and there's no logical business case for running a desktop OS (or one of MSFTs crippled abortion versions) on a modern vehicle.
That didn't stop them from releasing 10 when 7 was more than good enough.
Re: (Score:2)
Not clear what experience MS has with RTOS. In any case, even if MS is doing the infotainment, that would be problematic from my point of view.
Re: (Score:2)
GM customers, especially fleet users, expect different and more options than rich Tesla customers who rarely turn a wrench. ... The Tesla model is outstanding for Tesla's current market but there are many more markets than their niche and billions of dollars to be made.
Let me list two possibilities. You decide what is more likely.
Tesla introduces less pricey models. Not so rich people start buying Tesla.Tesla gives more info. Tesla learns to play nice with fleet operators using the semi. Thats A
The combination of GM and MSFT produces reliable good cars, enough for GM to hang on to its 20% markrt share. Thats B
Of course both can happen. Which is more likely to happen?
Re: (Score:2)
Someone is going to be make money selling your driving habits to Insurance vendors.
Targetted advertising can also follow you in your car.
Re: (Score:2)
blala MS has changed and GM makes good cars la
Oh, whoosh. I'm just here to read the best BSOD jokes.
GM Bob (Score:3)
User: (gets into car, attempts to start)
GMBob: Hi there, I see you are trying to start the vehicle, may I be of assistance?
User: Umm, okay, but you are already in control of starting the engine.
GMBob: Really? Wow. Should I start it then?
User: Yessss.
GMBob: Now don't get snippy, I don't like snippy a driver (starts engine).
User: Take me to (gives address).
GMBob: Is that in this country or would you like to choose one from this drop down menu (sheaf of papers drop into User's lap)?
User: Use the GPS.
GMBob: Oh, good thinking, give me my drop down menu back, I wrote down how to get to the GPS on it.
User: What the hell?
GMBob: I see, so you want to go to Hell. No prob, be there in a jiffy.
User: This is the Dept. of Motor Vehicles.
GMBob: I'd like you to have your license renewed before you attempt to drive my vehicle (shuts off vehicle).
User: Never mind, I'll walk.
GMBob: Hi there, I see you are trying to start the vehicle, may I be of assistance?
ms (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
only imagine if their software operated an Airbus.
I few on an Airbus a few years ago. They had a power hiccup when starting their engines at the gate. Light blinked and all the passenger screens rebooted. There was some sort of cute penguin icon visible for a moment.
Great (Score:2)
Kiss of Death for GM (Score:2)
I guess this is the end for GM.
Microsoft has a big talent to kill whatever company to they cooperate with - or the companies just desire to die on their own, whatever. Microsoft seems to be nearly as bad as Computer Associated, the official software graveyard.
If you still have GM shares, now might be time to get rid of them while the price is still high.
Microsoft and GM. (Score:3)
Lovely. Tootally looking forward to that one.
"It looks like you are trying to drive. Would you like me to help you with that?"
"Oh, it crashed again. Wasn't the OS. Must've been a faulty driver."
"This windscreen is locked for stability reasons. Looking through it could risk the stability of this driving system."
"[Advertisement] Wheels 8: The same UI for cars, trucks, motorcycles and bicycles! Plus: Simple flat sitting benches 'for extra comfort'! [Shows a literal four year old on the wooden bench, 'driving' the car.] Life has never been simpler!"
"[Advertisement] Wheels 10: The steering wheel is back! And say welcome to Cortana! Writing a complete log for you (and us)! [Ad pops up right across the entire windscreen.]"
BSOD? (Score:2)
What could possibly go wrong?
Waiting for lawsuits (Score:2)
Oh, great... (Score:2)
You're driving along at 70 in traffic on an Interstate, the fog and snow rolls in, and your self-driving car show the Blue Screen of Death, just before you ram into the overpass....
Wait! (Score:2)
2 billion? (Score:2)
That's the fraud fine VW pays every 2 weeks.
Lot's of Blind MS Bashing Here (Score:3)
Consider the world without Microsoft.
It's either Apple or one of the *many* flavors of Linux. Do we want that?
I like coding in Visual Studio and I have probably developed commercially successful products in more environments than at least 95% of the people that read
SQL Server Is a damn fine DBMS system. Azure is solid for me. I have a 2008 Mercury Mariner with a Microsoft Radio/Nav system and it still works great including pairing with my wife's iPhone and my Samsung Android phone - it has never given me any trouble at all.
I have not seen a blue screen of death in years, and even then when I did it was almost always a hardware problem and not common.
Do they cross a privacy line? Depending upon how you draw the line - sure. They certainly aren't nearly as bad as others whose whole business model is monetizing your behavior online.
Are they perfect, of course not. They are a behemoth that lumbers around with as many problems as you can shake a stick at. But they are the devil we know.
Re: (Score:2)
It's either Apple or one of the *many* flavors of Linux. Do we want that?
Yes, imagine broad software support for these. I am not seeing the downside.
Re: (Score:2)
Cheering for the demise of Microsoft isn't in our interest. Wishing for them to go away is a fantasy. Bashing them is just shooting yourself in the foot.
Re: (Score:2)
C'mon guys. Don't you think mindless Microsoft bashing has finally gone out of style? The dumb old jokes are fossils now.
It has nothing to do with "style" and it most certainly is not mindless (although it can degenerate to that).
Consider the world without Microsoft.
Yes please.
It's either Apple or one of the *many* flavors of Linux. Do we want that?
At first, those would be our only options; however, the space opened up would allow newer and better things to emerge. As it is, Microsoft is eating all of the resources and shitting out garbage. This is untenable in the long run.
Are they perfect, of course not. They are a behemoth that lumbers around with as many problems as you can shake a stick at. But they are the devil we know.
Nobody is convinced by your willingness to surrender. Shut. Up. I am unsure if you are a paid shill or a coward who has abandoned all efforts at self-determinati
Re: (Score:2)
I knew my sincere opinion would draw plenty of flames to keep me warm.
Ignore the mindbait (Score:2)
Ignore the trick phrase: "Microsoft, as the gold standard in the trustworthy democratization of technology",
It's meant to blind you to a glaring contradiction: why is cloud-computing _essential_ for self-driving. Self driving is supposed to be the epitome of standalone, self-contained, local decision-making. You cannot stream decision-making from the cloud.
This just shows self-driving is still in the data-gathering/AI-training stage. Not roadworthy yet.
And who is going to trust them? (Score:2)
better then apples reapir costs (Score:2)
if you don't buy apple care car then with our repair costs it's just not that much more to just buy an new car.
PERFECT MATCH (Score:2)
Can't think of a better pairing of tech company and GM.
Re: HAHAHA (Score:2)
You didn't even have to point out any of this. Let alone on this site.
Everybody was already pointing and laughing.
Popcorn? [presents large tub]