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Transportation Power

Volvo To Go All Electric By 2030 (reuters.com) 176

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Volvo's entire car lineup will be fully electric by 2030, the Chinese-owned company said on Tuesday, joining a growing number of automakers planning to phase out fossil-fuel engines by the end of this decade. "I am totally convinced there will be no customers who really want to stay with a petrol engine," Volvo Chief Executive Hakan Samuelsson told reporters when asked about future demand for electric vehicles. "We are convinced that an electric car is more attractive for customers." The Swedish-based carmaker said 50% of its global sales should be fully-electric cars by 2025 and the other half hybrid models.

Owned by Hangzhou-based Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, Volvo will launch a new family of electric cars in the next few years, all of which will be sold online only. On Tuesday it unveiled the first of those models, the C40, a fully electric SUV, which will have an initial battery range of around 420 kilometers (261 miles). Volvo will include wireless upgrades and fixes for its new electric models -- an approach originally pioneered by electric carmaker Tesla Inc. This means the C40's range will be extended over time with software upgrades, Chief Technology Officer Henrik Green said. Volvo said it will "radically reduce" the complexity of its model line-up and provide customers with transparent pricing. The carmaker's global network of 2,400 traditional bricks-and-mortar dealers will remain open to service vehicles and to help customers make online orders.

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Volvo To Go All Electric By 2030

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  • Wishful thinking (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @07:36PM (#61118026)

    "I am totally convinced there will be no customers who really want to stay with a petrol engine"

    That might be true for the people who drive Volvos, but it would probably be wrong to extrapolate too much beyond that.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 )

      That might be true for the people who drive Volvos, but it would probably be wrong to extrapolate too much beyond that.

      I think you could extrapolate pretty far beyond that...

      Don't get me wrong--there are plenty of people who love their cars and they will continue with the ICE long after everybody has switched to electric. But I think there are far fewer than you think. And I think a lot of them will enjoy tinkering on electric cars. I've seen a few YouTube videos of people who have "electrified" various cars and there seems to be a bit of a closet industry out there doing these things.

      I mean, I will definitely miss shift

      • long after everybody has switched to electric. But I think there are far fewer than you think.

        How many do you think? Because we have EV's on the market today and not _everyone_ is choosing to buy one. Personally I think (pure gut feel) about half the market don't want/can't afford an EV. So sure the EV market will continue to grow, but it's naive to think it solves everyone's problems for all use cases.

        • Yep. They're still too expensive for many people. 30k€ is still above what many people are willing or capable to spend on a car.
        • long after everybody has switched to electric. But I think there are far fewer than you think.

          How many do you think? Because we have EV's on the market today and not _everyone_ is choosing to buy one.

          Not yet. So?

          Personally I think (pure gut feel) about half the market don't want/can't afford an EV.

          Most people don't give a shit and just want a car that goes and stops and is shiny, so forget don't want. And most people buy used, so amend that to can't afford yet.

          So sure the EV market will continue to grow, but it's naive to think it solves everyone's problems for all use cases.

          Society as we know it was built around the gasoline engine because it was cheap and convenient. But now we've learned that the total system is not convenient, and we are in the process of correcting our behavior accordingly. It will take some time to overcome the inertia of designing life around the ICEV.

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        It's about cost and practicality. For a lot of people the running cost of an EV would be beneficial, as would the convenience of driving to work and back then letting it charge overnight.
        However for a lot of people the up front cost is prohibitive. With ICE these people buy used cars, but used EVs tend to have worn out batteries which severely decreases range.
        A lot of people also have nowhere they can leave the car to charge. Even those who do might incur extra cost, for instance my grandparents have a priv

        • by shilly ( 142940 )

          "With ICE these people buy used cars, but used EVs tend to have worn out batteries which severely decreases range."

          No, they don't. People worry about this, but it's not a real thing. Here's the calculations for my Renault Zoe:
          - Battery state of health (SoH) guaranteed above 80% for 8 years or 100k miles, so Renault obviously plan for only a small %ge of their EV batteries to fail at that stage or this will get expensive for them
          - In fact, they anticipate 750+ full discharge cycles before SoH drops to 80%
          - 7

      • I mean, I will definitely miss shifting gears. I will miss the sound of nicely tuned engine

        I won't miss them at all. I will continue to enjoy them.

    • Actually, ppl might continue to own LICE vehicles, but by 2024, few will want to buy a new one. Even now, LICE sales are dropping. Why? Because ppl are realizing that they do not want to own a STRANDED ASSET. Would you pay $100K for a car and then 1 year later, not have it be worth even $50K, possibly $20K?
      • no, sales are just down because of pandemic. They'll roar back, with ICE engines.

        Most people don't want what they can't charge anywhere. That 120VAC outlet in the garage will give you 2 miles per hour of charging... which is a joke.

        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          Not only are sales of new vehicles down, availability of used vehicles has increased. Many families might have had multiple vehicles before the pandemic, but now only need (or can only afford) 1.

        • by shilly ( 142940 )

          Weird. In the UK, people put in 7kW chargers at home that deliver 21 to 28 miles per hour of charging, depending on what EV you have. And in Europe, lots of people have triple phase and put in 22kW chargers that deliver 63 to 84 miles per hour. But 7kW is more than enough for overnight charging, which remains the dominant model for domestic charging: once a week (or less), plug in car in at night and it's fully charged in the morning. It's as hassle-free as you could ever want.

          • Simple 110V outlets in the US only deliver 1500W. In UK (240V mains) you get 3KW out of the same wire gauge, and that is what normal sockets support. I think most US houses do have 220V power as well, but mostly wired to fixed appliances etc., so you'd have to get a sparky in to fix you up with a high-power outlet (same with a 7kW plug in UK).
            • You are spot on. What most ppl miss is that the 120V is enough for more than 1/2 of the drivers in America. Combine that with occasional Supercharge and this is easier than going to gas stations, .5-1x /week.
              And throw in a 240v, and that covers more that 95% of all drivers for at least 95% of their driving. Then you only need a supercharge BETWEEN towns/cities.
            • by shilly ( 142940 )

              Yep. What I meant by "weird" is "why would anyone stick with a 120V AC if they needed more, when it's dead easy to put in a higher power outlet, all the way up to 7kW or more?" Obvs it costs a bit, but not that much. Sparkys aren't nothing, but someone was talking about 1500 bucks for a dedicated charger, which seems like daylight robbery. 500 tops seems more realistic.

              Nice to hear a Manc accent on here, by the way. (In me 'ed, anyway...)

        • 120v/15A gives 3-4 miles/hr, and we used that for several years. Why? Because only weekends did we go more than 30-40 miles/day. And we could Supercharge if needed. Later on when we had to drive multiple times /week to in-laws, we paid 750 for 240V/50A. So no, the argument about 120V or even the 750 is just BS.
      • ICE sales are dropping with the pandemic economy, not because EVs are eating huge chunks of sales. Certainly EVs will likely continue to increase their market share by a percent or two a year for the foreseeable future, but I think the "everyone will soon want an EV" idea is overstated. They are still a niche market, and just because you love them in no way means everyone does or will.

        Also, most any car depreciates the moment you drive it off the lot. If you are worried about that you are doing it wro
    • "I am totally convinced there will be no customers who really want to stay with a petrol engine"

      That might be true for the people who drive Volvos, but it would probably be wrong to extrapolate too much beyond that.

      You're right. A bunch of Slashdot readers want to return to 1940's cars. And anything EV appears to trigger them worse than assuming a radical feminist's gender.

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        Actually electric cars have been available for a long time, and in the late 1800s - early 1900s were more widely used than ICE vehicles. The world moved to ICE in the 1900s because they were cheaper, faster and more convenient.

        • Actually electric cars have been available for a long time, and in the late 1800s - early 1900s were more widely used than ICE vehicles. The world moved to ICE in the 1900s because they were cheaper, faster and more convenient.

          Right, Slashdotters aren't that regressive. They just want to return the the salad days when cars were boats, gas was 20 cents a gallon, and it had tetraethyl lead in it - just like God intended.

        • And now we're moving back to EVs because they are cheaper (in terms of TCO), faster, and more convenient*.

          * If you are one of the people with off-street parking and a reasonable commute, anyway

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Actually they moved to ICE in the 20's because they became more convenient, you're likely right about the cheaper and speedier.
          The big thing was the invention of the starter motor, along with automating things like the spark advance. Easy to start, especially for women.

      • I like 2020s model cars just fine. Current state of the automotive art. Modern cars (and trucks) no matter the powertrain are safe and reliable.

        Nothing against BEVs either, if that is what you like then it's great you have an ever increasing choice and constantly improving technology.

        But as with many things in life, it is still wrong to think that everyone else likes the same things you do. Unless you drive a Volvo apparently.
      • by rossdee ( 243626 )

        "A bunch of Slashdot readers want to return to 1940's cars."

        I didn't think they made cars in the 1940's. The factories were converted to make jeeps and M4 tanks.

        • "A bunch of Slashdot readers want to return to 1940's cars."

          I didn't think they made cars in the 1940's. The factories were converted to make jeeps and M4 tanks.

          Not so much after the middle of the decade.

    • by lorinc ( 2470890 )

      You known that the vast majority of people don't care about their car, right? It's just a tool to move things, whatever the technology is. So if it costs less to run and is easier to maintain, it's more desirable. People are not buying electric in number because they're very expensive and there's no second hand market. Once the price comes to the level of ICE and the second hand gets filled, the only ICE cars that will be bought will be from enthusiasts, i.e., very few people.

      In France, over 60% of the cars

      • I have no doubt there are cultural reasons why many Europeans treat cars as appliances. As you mention, astronomical fuel taxes are likely one. I would not extrapolate that to here, where a substantial percentage of vehicles are pickups and large SUVs (looking out at my street, more than half).

        Strangely Europeans also make some of the most fun cars. For the rest of the world to buy apparently.

        (of course I am just as biased as Tesla fans are, I'm buying a new M240i this summer)
      • In France, over 60% of the cars are crappy small diesel that every car enthusiast would hate because it handles like a combine while costing a bit more than its gasoline counterpart. Why such a high number? Because for years the tax on diesel was much lower than that on gasoline, and diesel cars tend to be slightly more efficient on long trips. So pure economical reasons over pleasure to drive...

        Same here. It's pretty hilarious watching people whine about their precious ICEs being replaced when the vast majority of them are boing silver boxes with tractor-like TDIs that run out of what little power they had at 2.5k rpm, or downsized turbo 3 cylinder gas that either don't go when out of boost or guzzle worse than a V6 when it spools up. I have no intention of buying an ICE car with either of those and would be very happy when they're all replaced with electric motors.

        In the meantime Mazda is still m

    • I think the only customers who want to stay with a petrol engine are those who haven't experienced an electric one.

      Otherwise I think everyone *wants* to switch to electric but comes with up various problems legit (I lack of ability to charge at home because I rent or live in an apartment) or otherwise (I drive 500miles a day over the arctic Tundra and everyone I've ever met in my life does the same).

      • I think the only customers who want to stay with a petrol engine are those who haven't experienced an electric one. Otherwise I think everyone *wants* to switch to electric.

        LOL. You may think that, but I don't think it is based in reality. It's like saying everyone really wants an iPhone. Many people expect other people to like the same things as them, but they are often wrong.

        I've driven electric cars. They have lots of torque, and little character. Like an appliance. Some people will be fine with that. Many won't.

        • It's like saying everyone really wants an iPhone.

          No it's not. That would be saying everyone wants an expensive Telsa. A more accurate analogy would be that everyone wants a Smartphone. And guess what, that turned out to be correct.

          and little character.

          There will always be a few weirdos who think judge cars purely by their sound. But I assure you that you people are in the minority, like those people in 2020 who proudly declare they don't want a smartphone. Basically every normal use case for a petrol car an EV can achieve better providing they can be afforded and charged. The

          • A more accurate analogy would be that everyone wants a Smartphone. And guess what, that turned out to be correct.

            I think that would be more analogous to everyone wants a vehicle. They pick the type they like, and only for a subset is cost of ownership the primary factor.

            In fact, looking at the number of pickups and SUVs around here, I would say cost of ownership is only a factor for a minority. Might they want an electric (or more likely hybrid) pickup in the future? Perhaps. But it won't be because they are cheaper to run, because for many people that is not important. They will have to compete on other basi

  • by iamhassi ( 659463 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @08:04PM (#61118090) Journal
    “the C40's range will be extended over time with software upgrades”. Huh? Reminds me of that joke of downloading more ram. Software can optimize battery usage, but it’s not going to really extend range significantly.
    • maybe the IBM of paid upgrades to unlock all ready installed hardware.

    • and yet, Tesla has done just that multiple times.
    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      You misunderstand: once we are on 27G wireless networks, the towers will beam so much power to your cell phone that you can charge your car with it.

    • by shilly ( 142940 )

      They're referring to range tweaks from improving BMS, motor control etc. A few miles. Not nothing, but not 50% increases for sure

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Quite a few manufacturers do this. They start out with a large amount of reserved capacity that the owner cannot access, which is there to protect the battery from over-discharge and over-charging. Lithium batteries degrade faster if charged to 100% constantly, or if discharged below a certain level.

      As they gather data on battery degradation and gain confidence that it isn't going to result in excessive warranty claims they can re-evaluate the amount of reserved capacity. A software upload unlocks a kilowat

      • A software upload unlocks a kilowatt-hour or two.

        A kWh or two is nothing in a EV. For example, the smallest battery Tesla has ever used was 60 kWh. A extra kWh or two would be 2-3% more, which is 2-3% more range. 3% more range is not significant.

    • by RevDisk ( 740008 )
      This is actually a thing. Batteries are not and should not be completely 100% discharged. The deeper you cycle the battery, the sooner you wear out the battery pack. Using made-up numbers, cycling a battery pack to 60% might get you 10 years out of a pack, while cycling 80% might only get you 6. This impacts warranty costs, which is not insignificant cost to the manufacturer to replace under warranty.

      But over time, you can get statistics on how to optimize battery pack life via how you handle charging an
    • Software can optimize battery usage, but itâ(TM)s not going to really extend range significantly.

      If Software can optimize battery usage, why shouldn't it be able to significantly improve range? Over time they can learn under exactly what conditions they get efficient operation out of the battery. A change as simple as reducing C rate slightly while the battery is at certain voltages and temperatures might well significantly improve system efficiency.

  • they have at least 75% of their vehicles being EVs. Because by 2025, ppl are not going to be buying many road-based LICE vehicles anymore.
    • Depends if they can be charged. The standard 120VAC outlet in the garage ain't going to cut it.

      • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @10:38PM (#61118398) Homepage Journal

        If you've got a garage then you can very likely get at least a dryer outlet, which for most people will "cut it". They might pay a few hundred bucks to have one put in, or maybe a few and another few too if it's especially difficult.

        For people without long commutes, though, the 120V outlet might actually be enough.

        • For people without long commutes, though, the 120V outlet might actually be enough.

          I agree. This shows that a PHEV will do nicely for a lot of people that want a zero emission commute without range anxiety that comes with weekend trips to visit family or cold and snowy weather.

          I believe that as electric vehicle technology develops this will open up the market to the PHEV. There will be a rising cost for batteries as demand increases and one way to address that is with smaller batteries. To make up for that will come a number of ways to fit an ICE into the vehicle to extend the range.

          I

          • For people without long commutes, though, the 120V outlet might actually be enough.

            I agree. This shows that a PHEV will do nicely for a lot of people that want a zero emission commute without range anxiety that comes with weekend trips to visit family or cold and snowy weather.

            No, it shows that EVs are ready for prime time for most people.

            I can recall surveys that show that most BEV owners have more than one vehicle, and only one is a BEV. This is because a BEV can't tow the family camper trailer.

            What? Who told you that? They lied.

            • by boskone ( 234014 )

              we resemble this remark. We have a BMW i3 that we plug in a a 120V outlet. There's never been a time in 2 years that it hasn't been charged the next time we need it (we use it for wife to commute and for most of our local running around). When I do the next wiring project (for other reasons), I'll go ahead and install a 50A 240V outlet in the garage for future needs, but this car charges fine overnight on a normal outlet.

              We do, indeed, have a monster truck for hauling our camp trailer around, long trips,

          • Other than off-road, hybrids need to die. At the least, we need to stop subsidies on these .
          • Wow. Just read the rest of your stuff. Nearly all is wrong.
  • by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @12:24AM (#61118606)

    Electric cars only comprise about 2% of auto sales in the US but this going to change quickly. Battery technology is rapidly improving, both in terms of how long it will last on a single charge and how long the battery itself will last. I suspect that in a few years we will see batteries that will go 400+ miles on a single charge.

    Maintenace on an electric car, apart from tires and suspension, is virtually nill. The cost of the cars themselves are coming down as production scales up. The next Tesla (some are calling it the "Model 2") will probably start at around 30K. That's about the same as a mid level Camry.

    Volvo used to make really, really good cars. Safe, solid and dependable. The cars they make now, while luxurious, are junk in terms of reliability. Electrifying their fleet gives them a chance to go back to when they made reliable cars. Eliminating the dealership will be a welcome move. Nearly everyone hates dealerships. The American car makers are legally bound to dealerships and it will probably lead to their eventual downfall.

    With the Democrats running the show in Washington look for electric car subsidies to continue.

    As much as I love ICE cars, having worked on more than my share back in the day, the writing is on the wall. Electric cars are coming and coming fast. Manufacturers that ignore this do so at their peril.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Their Polestar 2 is by all accounts an excellent car. Polestar is their EV brand.

      Expensive but well made, and good to drive.

    • The cars they make now, while luxurious, are junk in terms of reliability.

      The cars they make now are a mixed bag in terms of reliability. The companies that analyse the cost of maintenance and realibility of vehciles show that Volvo's current lineup is all over the place. The C30 is excellent, one of the (if not THE) best non-Japanese compacts in terms of reliability. The C70 is run of the mill average. On the flip side their SUV the XC60 is utterly junk.

  • by dromgodis ( 4533247 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @02:26AM (#61118754)

    Just to clarify:

    Volvo Cars is a Chinese automobile company with production in Sweden.

    Volvo is a Swedish group of companies that make trucks, buses, construction machines, marine stuff etc.

    This statement is, as far as I can tell, for Volvo Cars.

  • by lorinc ( 2470890 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @02:37AM (#61118770) Homepage Journal

    Let's be honest here: This is slashdot, we're all virgins and we've yet to see a volvo in real life. So tone down your so called "expertise"...

  • It's always been EV for Electric Vehicle, why are some people now adding a "B" in front of that?

    • Battery Electric Vehicle, not to be confused with Hydrogen Electric Vehicle, or Plug In Hybrid Electric Vehicle, or Hybrid Electric Vehicle, etc.
  • What are the odds that Volvo will even exist in 2030?

  • So they want to have purchases online on a car which will require extremely little in the way of ongoing maintenance.

    What incentives are there for dealers to stay afloat?

    (No, I'm not at all a fan of dealers. But the reality is that Volvo dealerships do exist.)

    • So they want to have purchases online on a car which will require extremely little in the way of ongoing maintenance.

      What incentives are there for dealers to stay afloat?

      (No, I'm not at all a fan of dealers. But the reality is that Volvo dealerships do exist.)

      Choice:
      1) support online ordering through deliveries (get some money for completing the process), what little maintenance you'll make from the basics (air filter, repairs, road hazards issues), charging stations, and trade-ins

      2) we go out of business and you lose all you've invested in your franchise

      That's why you're seeing the weaker brands going all-electric first (Cadillac, Volvo) because they don't have much to lose besides closing the brand. Cadillac told dealers to invest in electric or get bought out

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