India Threatens Jail for Facebook, WhatsApp and Twitter Employees (wsj.com) 77
India's government has threatened to jail employees of Facebook, its WhatsApp unit and Twitter as it seeks to quash political protests and gain far-reaching powers over discourse on foreign-owned tech platforms, WSJ reported Friday, citing people familiar with the warnings. From the report: The warnings are in direct response to the tech companies' reluctance to comply with data and takedown requests from the government related to protests by Indian farmers that have made international headlines, the people say. At least some of the written warnings cite specific, India-based employees at risk of arrest if the companies don't comply, according to two of the people. The threats mark an escalation of India's efforts to pressure U.S. tech companies at a moment when those companies are looking to the world's second-most-populous nation for growth in the coming years. Some of the government's requests for data involve WhatsApp, which is hugely popular in India and promises users encrypted communication, unable to be read by outside parties.
This isn't hard, techbros (Score:4, Insightful)
The marketplace of a country isn't owned by private interests, it is owned by the sovereign. If you are subject to the sovereign's authority, you can trade there in according to the sovereign's laws. If you don't like it, you can leave.
I know this comes as a shock to techbros who are used to a selectively libertarian system where people forget that We the People in the USA, not corporations and entrepreneurs, set the law and guidelines in the US marketplace, but India and China sure as hell are not going to let you forget it there.
Re:This isn't hard, techbros (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This isn't hard, techbros (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't break the law in the US and just claim I'm following a corporate policy, and I bet I can't do that in India, either.
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> Not the janitors though.
So operations and desktop support are exempt?
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And let's be clear here: the farmers are right, the Indian government is wrong, and they are being authoritarian assholes about the situation. Fuck Narendra Modhi and his auth-right government.
How do you arrive at the judgement that the farmers are right? Just because they are used to getting their subsidies and loan waivers in Punjab, they must always get what they want, right? The government has offered to suspend the laws for 18 months and let an expert committee re-evaluate it. But from the farmers side its "My way or the highway" except that they have even blocked the highway. Every expert in agriculture including the ones from the state of Punjab have advocated for these very changes - pr
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>> The government has offered to suspend the laws for 18 months and let an expert committee re-evaluate it.
"We'll still do this, but not for 18 months...and in the meantime, we'll set up a committee that no doubt will report back whatever we ask it to" - Would you be stupid enough to take that deal?
>> Every expert in agriculture including the ones from the state of Punjab have advocated for these very changes - private investment, opening up of markets etc.
What qualifies one to be an "expert in
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>> The government has offered to suspend the laws for 18 months and let an expert committee re-evaluate it.
"We'll still do this, but not for 18 months...and in the meantime, we'll set up a committee that no doubt will report back whatever we ask it to" - Would you be stupid enough to take that deal?
Everyone who doesn't agree to you is stupid, right? You must be a really good negotiator with that attitude. The mob is not in favor of their comfort zones disturbed, so no debate / discussion needed .
>> Every expert in agriculture including the ones from the state of Punjab have advocated for these very changes - private investment, opening up of markets etc.
What qualifies one to be an "expert in agriculture?" Does being a farmer help, or are they just dumb hicks that don't know what's best for them?
"Expert in agriculture" means those who have done extensive research and studies on soil, crop patterns, markets, consumption patterns etc. for decades. One of these from Punjab Agricultural University who had published studies in favour of these reforms was proposed to be included in the committee but he
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Everyone who doesn't agree to you is stupid, right?
Of course not. Some of them are intoxicated, misinformed, and just plain wrong.
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"Expert in agriculture" means those who have done extensive research and studies on soil, crop patterns, markets, consumption patterns etc. for decades.
Did they do their thesis on life experience too?
I guess Farmers use a Magic 8 Ball backed up by a Ouiji Board for confirmation.
One group depends on this knowledge for a grade, or maybe a paycheck, the others for the health and welfare of their entire family.
Clearly the former has more skin in the game.
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Yeah, that's a load of horse shit. Just more propaganda. Absolutely lying about the Sikhs and their demands. Why'd you need to cut off their Internet if your goals and methods are so pure? Why do you need to beat old men who are peacefully protesting? Why are the trucker's unions supporting the farmers? You want to displace the Sikhs and take their land, to give to big corporations. It's obvious to any outside observer who is at all familiar with what a piece of human garbage Narendra Modhi is.
For anyone who wants a better understanding, Wikipedia has a good overview of the situation. Don't take this shill's word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
You are trying to convert into a religious issue, and fan communal violence, which is why the government wants to curb this fake propaganda.Sikhs are not the only farmers in India, and the law is not applicable only in Punjab. Its applicable all over India.
Which provision talks about "taking land" from anybody and giving it to corporations? If you are talking about contract farming - there have been enough safeguards built where the land owner has all the rights. The existing contract farming act of Punja
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+1. Pity I dont have mod points right now.
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Doesn't mean he's not a piece of shit, asshole. Hitler was popular too, depending on who you asked. Modi is a Hindu nationalist, and while I have no problem with Hindus in general, nationalists are always racist pieces of shit.
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Then stop electing fascists.
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Lies. It's not economics at all. it's about screwing over the Sikhs.
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Canada option (Score:2)
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they're threatening to jail the local employees, who have zero say in corporate policy.
I can't break the law in the US and just claim I'm following a corporate policy, and I bet I can't do that in India, either.
No one broke any law and said it was corporate policy.
Back on topic, the people we are discussing have performed no actions to be deemed illegal or legal.
Or put another way, yes you can and did break that law too. You now know of these posts the Indian government wants taken down, and yet you personally have not done so.
You have the exact same access to remove them as the Indian facebook employees. That is to say no access.
Not removing them is the crime, and obviously it remains a crime regardless of your
RICO (Score:1)
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That sounds like the "just following orders" defense
You're implying that the Indian employees have the power to do the filtering. That's presumptuous.
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they're threatening to jail the local employees, who have zero say in corporate policy.
The Nuremberg Defense of "just following orders" is not an excuse to break the law.
In India, an employee can't be fired for refusing an order to break the law.
Governments, not corporations, make the laws and enforce them.
India's government is authoritarian and repressive. They are pushing religious sectarianism that is likely to lead to conflict and more repression. They are committing atrocities in Kashmir.
Nonetheless, it is not the role of American corporations to "fix" India. Indians need to fix their
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Nonetheless, it is not the role of American corporations to "fix" India. Indians need to fix their own country or live with the consequences.
Exactly right.
To those of us living in a real democracy, not a faux democracy like India, the actions by India's government are very troubling. But we have no right to dictate India's laws, as ridiculous as they might be. So the answer is very simple: comply with Indian law or don't do business in India.
And therein lies the rub. Facebook could be quite profitable only doing business in the civilized countries of the world. But when a company is run by some of the greediest, most corrupt human beings in
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Depends on your criteria for a real democracy [youtu.be], really. I think we can all agree, though, that governments *and* corporations make the rules and enforce them [theonion.com].
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To those of us living in a real democracy, not a faux democracy like India
India is a real democracy. They have authoritarianism because that's what they voted for.
Modi was a repressive assh*le when he was the minister of Gujarat. He stirred up violence that killed thousands in religious riots.
Indians knew exactly what they were voting for.
Democracy doesn't mean you get good government. It means you get the government you deserve.
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Is that actually the case or is the government of India threatening to make hostages of employees if Corporate doesn't comply? My cynical opinion has been that it's the latter.
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Nonetheless, it is not the role of American corporations to "fix" India.
They are not. They are merely allowing people to communicate.
That's what Facebook, Twitter, et al, are. Communication platforms.
So fuck you and your support for authoritarian anti-democracy regimes.
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you're so often a uniformed dick
I haven't worn a uniform in many years.
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''That's why this is news and a very bad thing''
It absolutely is... and bad for the country as well as any company that has employees there. It's bad for the country because it's trivial for the company to close all offices in that country, not employ anyone in the country and still operate in that country is some manner.
But the worst thing is that Facebook/Whatsapp don't give a fuck about employees, they'll do what they find makes financial sense when what they should do is offer to evacuate anyone employe
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True; but you can generally go on working at a place even if that organization is facing legal action from the government, so long as you are not committing any crimes yourself.
Its illegal the threaten the President for example. So imagine your work for a foreign national and its CEO spouts off about planning to kill POTUS. Your job in the middle of Indian is to fry Chicken and bus tables. Uncle Sam isnt going to come grab you because they can't get to your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-gr
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i love how you fucking assholes always fall back on the "just quit if you don't like it!" line of horseshit.
some people aren't in a position to throw their life away on principle.
they can't make their family homeless ON PURPOSE just to make a point about something.
fuck you and your 'principled stand' shit. Yeah go deliberately throw yourself into poverty, that'll show those fuckers, huh?
The US does this all the time (Score:3)
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The flip side of this is these companies are effectively interfering in international diplomacy if they start meddling in speech and censoring information even regionally at the requests of foreign governments.
Its one thing when its a government we support generally speaking like India's state; but when its a military junta like in Burma? What about China? Like it or not Twitter and Facebook are where a lot of new travels now.
I remain of the opinion its time for a more boarders aware rethink of the internet
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The marketplace of a country isn't owned by private interests, it is owned by the sovereign. If you are subject to the sovereign's authority, you can trade there in according to the sovereign's laws. If you don't like it, you can leave.
Agreed. They should just pull out of the country and not support Indian users anymore. Or, if they don't, then we find out a bit more what kind of whores social media companies are.
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> If you don't like it, you can leave.
It's not moral to force people to invent starships, tho.
Oh, "leave". Pew-pew. Mao. Gotcha.
The world's biggest democracy? (Score:2)
Apparently not.
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India's BJP is still using last-century methods. Don't they know it's better to seed social media with apologists and alternative facts, instead of closing accounts? Why come down with an authoritarian first when you can use canned, artifical grassroots? The optics are so much better. As a bonus, you decrease the signal-to-noise ratio so much that some people just give up entirely on staying aware. Makes it too hard for them.
Do this and you can maintain your claim to democracy and somebody will actually bel
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Why come down with an authoritarian first when you can use
India's BJP is quite modern in this regard. They do seed social media with all you mention, with a dedicated large team well versed with the ways of the contemporary world. They have used such strategies not only to win elections, but later to garner support for many of their policies. In this particular case, BJP failed. Maybe because the other side is large, well respected and somewhat familiar with the social media strategies themselves, although the real reasons will be for historians to ponder over, de
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This is why Free Speech is important (Score:2)
Ah yes those countries and cultures (Score:2)
Lie a social media communication platform being held responsible for the writings of their gazillions of users.
Quaint.
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Whol will jail Indian gov for fake tax calls? (Score:2)
Do it. Stop threatning and do it. (Score:2)
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They should do it the American Way. (Score:1, Troll)
R.I.P. (Score:2)
R.I.P. World's largest democracy.
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What's the point of clinging to such a narrow definition of a word that no meaningful discussion can occur beyond a well-ackshully guy getting up on a soap box for his monologue?
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There are zero democracies in the world. They are all oligarchies, monarchies, or dictatorships posing as democracies.
Really? Can you explain why Iceland doesn't qualify as a democracy? And Finland?
Sweeping statements like yours rarely stand up to any scrutiny.
Just wondering (Score:2)
Can anyone spell T P P ?
This is a really bad move by Inida (Score:2)
It's an interesting idea (Score:2)
Let's wait and see if it works better than threatening them with tax breaks the way we did in the US.
Why not microsoft employees ? (Score:1)
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Brahmin hegemony/corruption in India (Score:2)
What else can we expect when 50% Ministers in Modi Cabinet are Brahmin;
Let us give Brahmin a separate country; They're just 3% in India; https://archive.is/h3TBP [archive.is]
https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-India/answers/220938900