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Facebook Guidelines Allow Users To Call For Death of Public Figures (theguardian.com) 86

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Facebook's bullying and harassment policy explicitly allows for "public figures" to be targeted in ways otherwise banned on the site, including "calls for [their] death," according to a tranche of internal moderator guidelines leaked to the Guardian. From the report: Public figures are defined by Facebook to include people whose claim to fame may be simply a large social media following or infrequent coverage in local newspapers. They are considered to be permissible targets for certain types of abuse "because we want to allow discussion, which often includes critical commentary of people who are featured in the news," Facebook explains to its moderators. It comes as social networks face renewed criticism over abuse on their platforms, including of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and of professional footballers, in particular black stars such as Marcus Rashford.Facebook, which also owns Instagram, has changed its policies in response to the criticism, introducing new rules to cover abuse sent through direct messages and committing to cooperate with law enforcement over hate speech. In the detailed guidelines seen by the Guardian, running to more than 300 pages and dating from December 2020, Facebook spells out how it differentiates between protections for private and public individuals.
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Facebook Guidelines Allow Users To Call For Death of Public Figures More

Facebook Guidelines Allow Users To Call For Death of Public Figures

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  • Zuck.. I'm sure you have a few fans out there

  • On the other hand... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:17PM (#61190422) Journal

    A Polish writer faces a possible prison sentence for insulting President Andrzej Duda by calling him a "moron" over comments the latter made about Joe Biden's US election victory.

    Jakub Zulczyk, the screenwriter behind the popular TV series Blinded by the Lights and Belfer, said prosecutors had charged him under an article in the criminal code for insulting the head of state in a Facebook post.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/23/polish-writer-jakub-zulczyk-charged-for-calling-president-andrzej-duda-a-moron [theguardian.com]

    • You'd think Poles of all people would know to not act like fascists.

      • And you'd be wrong to think that. Many places have politcal parties that once in power do whatever it takes to cement that power in place permanently, which leads to an authoritarian style of thinking. Not necessarily fascist, in the normal definition of the term. So removing freedoms of speech and press, establishing a very compliant supreme court unlikely to ever disagree with the president or party, etc.

        • "So removing freedoms of speech and press, establishing a very compliant supreme court unlikely to ever disagree with the president or party, etc." Indeed, and this is exactly what the Polish and Hungarian authoritarian Govts. have done, with exactly zero effective response from the EU, (as usual; see Crimea et al) even though as EU members both states have signed-up to not do this kind of crap. Of course the Brits did it properly with Brexit, hence the European Court (sort of) no longer applies in the UK
        • Yes, and here in the States centralizing power within reach of these goals is a 'bipartisan' effort while the two then work hard to solidify their position in exactly the manner you describe. People get so caught up rooting for their team winning they forget that any team winning would be a horrific nightmare and the end of democracy. That is much worse than any of the actual emotional issues they are distracting voters with.

      • I'm quaking at the thought of their screen door equipped submarines launching an attack on America.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by noodler ( 724788 )

        Hey, in a world where right-wing nationalists are governing the state of Israel everything is possible.

    • Re:On the other hand... (Score:4, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:21PM (#61190442) Homepage Journal

      Regardless of what Facebook's internal policies are, they don't override local laws. So be careful, while Facebook might not mind you calling for a politician's death, the cops might. Or the politician themselves, if they decide to sue you for harassment.

      • Or worse. Like say.. polonium in their tea?

      • Well, hey, they ought not censor these threats. The authorities may well be interested in both the perp and their adherents.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jhon ( 241832 )

        Facebook is piss poor about accurately following their policies. If you get flagged for violating (community standards) and get a warning or worse you have one option: To appeal. All that means is someone (likely a human) looks at it more closely. You don't get to EXPLAIN how it doesn't violate their policies.

        I admin a large FB group (50k) and I'm frequently getting feedback from users that their post was deleted and they got a warning (and maybe a mute) from FB. And the warnings are vague, too. They

      • pretty sure most countries wont allow facebook users to make death threats against anyone
    • How do you know if someone's a moron? Call him one and see what he does. Things often times don't work out the way you had initially planned. YMMV.

  • It's all fun and games... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:20PM (#61190438)

    ..until your side gets targeted.

  • direct messages... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shaitand ( 626655 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:30PM (#61190472) Journal
    It is good that they are openly censoring direct messages. Those things create a false illusion of privacy that needs to be shattered.

  • Is it any wonder (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is it any wonder why public figures keep calling for the death of Facebook? Turnabout is fair play, right Zuck?
  • As seen before, if they didn't have loopholes like this, basically every conservative (read: trump supporters / alt-right white supremacists, there's really no difference) would have to be banned from Facebook.

    Remember when Twitter admitted that their algorithms to ban white supremacists would necessarily wind up banning most, if not all, GOP members? [businessinsider.com] It's not that the algorithm was wrong - it's that the GOP has literally become a white-supremacist terrorist party, and that things like death threats are

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by organgtool ( 966989 )

      (read: trump supporters / alt-right white supremacists, there's really no difference)

      Please stop spouting this nonsense. Just because almost every violent nutjob is a right-wing Trump supporter (and often a white supremacist) doesn't mean that all Trump supporters and right-wingers are violent nutjob white supremacists. When you insist on conflating the two and then attacking all Trump supporters and right-wingers based on that false premise, you push any moderates on the right further toward the extreme

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cederic ( 9623 )

        Just because almost every violent nutjob is a right-wing Trump supporter (and often a white supremacist)

        What, like James Hodgkinson or Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa?

        The media keep screeching about far right and white supremacist terrorists but the facts are simple: idiots inhabit all parts of the political spectrum.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by noodler ( 724788 )

        you push any moderates on the right further toward the extreme right

        Moderates on the right are called democrats in the US.

      • Haha, I love how a liberal trying to get people on his own side to stop flaming conservatives by assuming almost every one of them is racist gets his comment modded as flamebait. You're only proving my point.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rickb928 ( 945187 )

      "because misinformation and hate is more mainstream on the Republican side of the aisle."

      Oh. More mainstream. How much more? From my vantage point, it's pretty much a dead heat, if you're generous.

    • trump supporters / alt-right white supremacists, there's really no difference

      Your lack of nuance is disturbing.

  • Using French financial words only makes you look like a pretentious Redditor.

    • In french it simply means a slice, like a slice of apple pie: une tranche de tarte aux pommes.

    • Using French financial words only makes you look like a pretentious Redditor.

      "Tranche" is a standard financial loanword for a deployed slice of a larger amount of money, such as a portion of a building loan paid out on completion of a project phase.

  • I think facebook and other social media should take a hands off policy and let people post whatever they want. leave matters of harassment, criminal threats / assaults, etc to the law.

    However if they are going to have community standards - don't feed us some yarn about wanting to facilitate discussions. If can't call for the death of Covid-Karen why should I be able to call for the death Donal Trump (we know that is what this is really about - they'd have to probably ban a quarter of their account holders)?

    • facebook truly wanted to elevate discourse

      I think it's been a long time since anyone believed that's what Facebook wanted. They want money, same as every other company. They navigate political and social waters to maximize profit. Lip service is paid to each side to stave off undesirable regulation and user exodus.

  • By "public", we are usually talking about people who have chosen to be in a spotlight. They deliberately draw attention to themselves and they often have a message or cause or passion that they hope we will share. It seems reasonable that they are also open to criticism from any and all who are faced with their presence. Asking for their death seems extreme, but I can think of many public individuals whose death would have saved countless other lives.

    OTOH, an ordinary citizen, crime victim, housewife, farm

    • There are plenty of "famous" people who don't particularly want to be in the spotlight, but have no choice.

      There are just too many instances where people will lose protection that they need, just so we can yell at people who are idiots (who, by nature, don't listen or believe anyway)

      Take the woman who spoke up about rape, has evidence, the man has priors. She becomes a public figure due to misogynists and the man's fans, then it is game on/free for all.

      Or any black person in the US, doing something Trump su

  • That the only reason that most federal level politicians are alive is because the laws against killing them are MUCH more rigidly enforced than the laws against killing you or me.

    I'm not suggesting that we relax the laws against killing politicians, only that you and I deserve the same level of real protection as they do.

  • Trump? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by laie_techie ( 883464 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:05PM (#61190594)

    Isn't that what Trump was accused of - calling for the death of certain public figures occupying the Capitol?

    If it were my platform, I wouldn't allow anyone calling for the death of anyone else regardless of celebrity or status.

    • If it were my platform, I wouldn't allow anyone calling for the death of anyone else regardless of celebrity or status.

      So the murdering psychopath who runs through a child day care center with an UZI and kills everyone including your child...you mean to tell me you're going to be the one wagging your banhammer finger in the face of everyone on "my platform" who is demanding equal and fair justice for such a heinous act?

      Try not to assume so much when making statements like that. The world isn't that simple, as social media can attest.

      • If it were my platform, I wouldn't allow anyone calling for the death of anyone else regardless of celebrity or status.

        So the murdering psychopath who...

        Calling for death and actually killing people are two different thing aren't they? I'm not agreeing with the OP, but let's clarify that calling for violence and committing violence are not equal, nor should they be.

        • If it were my platform, I wouldn't allow anyone calling for the death of anyone else regardless of celebrity or status.

          So the murdering psychopath who...

          Calling for death and actually killing people are two different thing aren't they? I'm not agreeing with the OP, but let's clarify that calling for violence and committing violence are not equal, nor should they be.

          Yes, which is exactly why it's rather senseless to attack mere words.

          There are now two kinds of people in this world. Those that still believe mere words cannot hurt me, and those who insist on turning speech into a weapon of "hate" for people to abuse and silence those they disagree with.

      • If it were my platform, I wouldn't allow anyone calling for the death of anyone else regardless of celebrity or status.

        So the murdering psychopath who runs through a child day care center with an UZI and kills everyone including your child...you mean to tell me you're going to be the one wagging your banhammer finger in the face of everyone on "my platform" who is demanding equal and fair justice for such a heinous act?

        Try not to assume so much when making statements like that. The world isn't that simple, as social media can attest.

        Calling for equal and fair justice is not the same thing as calling for their death. Vigilante killing is not justice.

    • Verifiable citation needed, or your suggesting fake news is part of the problem.

      Or did you finally clear that pedophilia conviction you had?

      • Verifiable citation needed, or your suggesting fake news is part of the problem.

        Or did you finally clear that pedophilia conviction you had?

        I have never been accused of pedophilia, much less indicted or convicted. The single article of impeachment against Trump was inciting a mob to attack the Capitol, Multiple news agencies even reported an alleged call for the death of Mike Pence for not throwing out the Electoral College's report instead of validating it.

        • So I'd have thought it pretty simple to come up with a link, yeah?

          And my point is exactly that - I don't expect you're a pedophile, but you seem to act as if the mere accusation = reality, so why can't I?

          • So I'd have thought it pretty simple to come up with a link, yeah?

            And my point is exactly that - I don't expect you're a pedophile, but you seem to act as if the mere accusation = reality, so why can't I?

            I don't equate accusations with reality. I was pointing out the hypocrisy that mere accusations were enough to get Trump banned, but now Facebook says that actually threatening celebrities is not enough to be banned. As for links, I provided them on another reply.

    • Isn't that what Trump was accused of - calling for the death of certain public figures occupying the Capitol?

      Accused of? Maybe. He didn't do that though in the real world outside of anybody's head.

      • Isn't that what Trump was accused of - calling for the death of certain public figures occupying the Capitol?

        Accused of? Maybe. He didn't do that though in the real world outside of anybody's head.

        Multiple news agencies reported that Trump called for the death of Mike Pence for not throwing out the Electoral College's ballots.

  • The media creates public figures (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DeplorableCodeMonkey ( 4828467 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:06PM (#61190596)

    Smart people will note that the media can literally draft anyone into becoming a public figure by writing about them enough. Then suddenly that person is fair game, has reduced defamation protections, etc. Could be a child, could be a fry cook at McDonalds. Once a critical mass of chattering heads start chattering, the courts cry "muh 1a" and you're a second class citizen.

    • Facebook's guidelines are completely independent of laws against violent speech. This doesn't make it legal to send death threats to public figures, it just means your Facebook account will still exist when you get out of prison.

    • Smart people will...

      Here we go...

      Once a critical mass of chattering heads start chattering, the courts cry "muh 1a" and you're a second class citizen.

      That is not how 1A works. The courts, which actually understand the law more than you clearly do, know this [wikipedia.org] too.
      Smart people wouldn't confuse FB policy with the actual law.

    • the courts cry "muh 1a"

      Really? That's all you think of the first amendment? Some sort of weird incoherent mockery?

      Well, at least you are open about it. And ironically, I'm glad that nobody censored your post. It needs to be seen, in all it's ... er, glory.

  • I deplore whataboutism as much as the next guy, but just like the next guy I'm not above invoking it.

    I've seen open calls to not only overthrow the US government, but also to literally "assassinate" female Muslims in Congress. Given that there are so few, that's a very specific threat, especially since they named names. Fox has no problem with such comments, but don't dare call Trump "President Agent Orange" even if you're quoting a "public figure".

    Saying you hope some public figure dies is one thing. S

  • As a public figure I mean?

    Legal Disclaimer: The query above does not imply I am planning to call for the death of any public figure, including, but not limited to Mark.

  • Unless the aforementioned "public figure" is a member of some niche socioeconomic, racial, or cultural group in which case you get put into Facebook jail. Yep, can't generate advertising clicks from Facebook jail.

  • .. that called for Assange's death to be OK on Facebook.

    How about Death to Facebook posts? ;)

  • Since when does calling for a public figure's death constitute a discussion?

    It's a strange policy considering calling for anyone's death is liable to get you a visit from law enforcement (if someone reports it), but hey, Facebook is cool with it because it's "a discussion".

  • A lot of posters here seemed to have confused FB moderation policy with the law. Seems like a rookie error for a so-called nerd site....

    Don't use FB and all your FB problems go away...

  • I can now confidently predict that whether one is a public figure will be decided based on the content of one's opinions.

  • My local newspaper never covers me. Therefore I must be a public figure.
  • Comedienne's holding up fake severed heads should be safe now ...

  • Debating Facebook guidelines or rules is like debating how many devils can dance on the head of a zit.

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