Windows 10 Notifies Users They Should Make Bing Their Browser's Default Search Engine (zdnet.com) 116
Today ZDNet's "Technically Incorrect" columnist Chris Matyszczyk discussed a new pop-up message that's now appearing in Windows 10's notification center.
It's warning Windows users that "Microsoft recommends different browser settings. Want to change them?" The notification adds that you'll get "Search that gives you back time and money." And "fast and secure search results with Bing." Oh, yes. Bing, the MySpace to Google's Facebook, is still being pushed.
I learned that this Bing-pushing is pushing Windows users' buttons. There's a little Reddit thread where you'll see laments such as: "You're not the first to have this Microsoft Annoyance. Apparently, there are thousands in front of you." The most poignant, perhaps, was this: "Miserably I get this despite using Edge AND having Bing set as my default search engine... (the latter of which for Microsoft Rewards). I think the 'problem' is that not ALL of my browsers had Bing as the default search engine? Which is ridiculous because I never use Chrome or Firefox anyway. But after clicking the popup, it ludicrously opened up all my browsers...."
What's most distressing is the lack of any attempt at charm or humor in these notifications. Are they all written by engineers? Or robots, perhaps...? Perhaps Microsoft believes that irritation works. Perhaps it simply has no better ideas to persuade anyone to try Bing.
And really, it's not as if Redmond is alone in pursuing this sort of communication. Why, I've even had Apple notifying me of its angry feelings whenever I open, oh, Microsoft Edge.
It's warning Windows users that "Microsoft recommends different browser settings. Want to change them?" The notification adds that you'll get "Search that gives you back time and money." And "fast and secure search results with Bing." Oh, yes. Bing, the MySpace to Google's Facebook, is still being pushed.
I learned that this Bing-pushing is pushing Windows users' buttons. There's a little Reddit thread where you'll see laments such as: "You're not the first to have this Microsoft Annoyance. Apparently, there are thousands in front of you." The most poignant, perhaps, was this: "Miserably I get this despite using Edge AND having Bing set as my default search engine... (the latter of which for Microsoft Rewards). I think the 'problem' is that not ALL of my browsers had Bing as the default search engine? Which is ridiculous because I never use Chrome or Firefox anyway. But after clicking the popup, it ludicrously opened up all my browsers...."
What's most distressing is the lack of any attempt at charm or humor in these notifications. Are they all written by engineers? Or robots, perhaps...? Perhaps Microsoft believes that irritation works. Perhaps it simply has no better ideas to persuade anyone to try Bing.
And really, it's not as if Redmond is alone in pursuing this sort of communication. Why, I've even had Apple notifying me of its angry feelings whenever I open, oh, Microsoft Edge.
The joy of using a Microsoft operating system! (Score:5, Funny)
In Soviet Redmond, operating system controls you!
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In Soviet Redmond, operating system controls you!
Heh. In Soviet Russia, government controls corporations?
Re: The joy of using a Microsoft operating system! (Score:1)
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Let's be realistic, Russia has no power over Bing. Xi Jinping does seeing how they were happy to censor the Tiananmen Square Massacre where China murdered thousands of civilians and soldiers.
Which if anyone wants to read about the UK embassy's communications regarding the incident declassified in 2017:
Text form for easy reading:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki... [wikisource.org]
Origional scanned docs on the Parliament's own website:
http://data.parliament.uk/Depo... [parliament.uk]
Need a concrete reason? Better pandering! (Score:2, Interesting)
Odd coincidence time? I was just running some search experiments with loaded questions. If you want a browser that panders to what you want to believe, then my results say Bing should be your default search engine. It actually makes sense when you consider that Microsoft is probably feeling kind of desperate to increase Bing's share of search.
I'll spare y'all the details unless someone has a good reason, such as wanting to replicate the results. They certainly weren't definitive and I'm pretty sure that som
Lacking social ability? (Score:5, Interesting)
"What's most distressing is the lack of any attempt at charm or humor in these notifications. Are they all written by engineers?"
As I said before:
EVERYTHING from Microsoft is sloppy in some ways. The culture of Microsoft is, partly, the culture of Bill Gates. Many flaws. Not much overall examination.
Long Before Divorce, Bill Gates Had Reputation for Questionable Behavior [nytimes.com]
My opinions.
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"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way" - Steve Jobs, 2015-11-11.
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That's the date that was attributed to the quote I found from a Google search.
But yeah... it's supposed to be 1995.
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The quote was from Medium.
(Too subtle?}
Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:5, Funny)
"The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way" - Steve Jobs, 2015-11-11.
"90% of quotes on the internet are misattributed or incorrect" - Abraham Lincoln, 6-6-2021
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Nah, saw that speech on YouTube, Abe said that on 9-10-2001, coincidence?
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Check out Dave's Garage on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channe... [youtube.com]
He's a retired Microsoft engineer. Started back in the 90s and was there for decades.
Anyway, he had videos where he talks about what it was like back then, and you get the impression that it really was driven by the engineers. Like a lot of companies there was a divide between marketing and engineering. He talks about Windows like it was a great product, not like it was an unstable joke full of things that people hated.
Maybe that lack of a
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Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd just love to know what gets said in the meetings where these decisions are made. How do they get to a point where "let's ram it up his arse sideways" sounds like a reasonable way to market a service.
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It is probably soon after the point in the meeting when everyone agrees what a great product it is.
Re: Lacking social ability? (Score:2)
There's a major difference when the operating system does it versus a website detecting a different browser and popping up something. When you figure that out report back...
They just don't care. (Score:3)
Got my complaints about Linux, but not enough to make me regret the move. Not looking for a hug from my operating system anyway.
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Just wait until Microsoft buys Canonical and Ubuntu starts nagging you to install Edge and use Bing.
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I use Mint, so I expect they will have removed the M$ $hit.
If they do that, then fork `em. (Score:3)
Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:5, Interesting)
The lack of social ability is the nagging in the first place, not even how the nagging message is written. It is akin to someone letting themselves into your home uninvited to sell you stuff you're not interested about: it's not the stuff they're telling you that's disturbing, it's the fact that they let themselves into your home.
I hate it so much I even ditched a very good open-source software the other day: the Kitty [github.com] terminal emulator. It's really an excellent terminal. It's so good and I was so impressed by its perfor,ances that I started installing it on all my machines. And then one day it opened a popup advising me to upgrade to the latest version.
After some digging around, I found a menu setting for this automatic checking, and the bit of code that deals with it. And I promptly deleted Kitty from all my systems.
Why you ask - because after all, the author's heart is in the right place, and it's probably a good thing to keep current, right? Because he deemed it acceptable for a terminal emulator to contact an external web address to check on the latest version, as a default behavior. The problem with this is: firstly, a terminal emulator has no business contacting web servers. Secondly, updates should be handled by the system, not by the individual packages (programs checking with the mothership is closed-source commercial software behavior). Thirdly, the author thinks this is acceptable, so who know what other irrelevant bits of code he might have snuck in the emulator "for my own good".
Of course I could check the entire code - it's in Python so it's easy - but I have no time, and this automatic version checking killed the trust I need for such a fundamental tool that I would use all the time.
That's lack of social grace. Even open-source is not immune.
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Secondly, updates should be handled by the system, not by the individual packages (programs checking with the mothership is closed-source commercial software behavior).
Shhhh! No one tell him about VLC.
Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:5, Insightful)
Same reason why I'm pissed at Mozilla. A few versions ago, they removed the ability to turn off update checks in Firefox, so every couple of weeks the browser yells at me to update to the new version, and there's no way to shut it up. I don't use Firefox as my primary browser, and instead use it for development, so I like to lag behind a few versions. Why was it necessary to remove the preference to check for updates? Oh yeah, people are stupid and need to be forced to do the right thing because everybody knows better than me what I need. Hence, this is why Firefox is merely my "backup" browser. If I used it more often, I'd actually bother to uninstall it and move to ESR (though knowing Mozilla, that probably won't change anything).
Developers should just accept that 99% of people will only use the default settings, will never change anything, and it's not even needed to gimp the interface. If people are going out of their way to change a default, there's a reason for that. When developers intentionally remove choices, they're not looking out for my best interests, no matter what kind of security theater they ram into my face.
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every couple of weeks the browser yells at me to update to the new version, and there's no way to shut it up.
Oh, there is a way, just not an obvious/convenient one. Just open about:config, and append a couple of zeroes to the value of app.update.interval .
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Mozilla actually contacts an external server twice when it updates.
Once to find out there's an update and fetch it, then again after it updates and restarts. It loads a page about the update, ostensibly for your information, but also to generate a page hit from your browser on their site. This makes it easier for Mozilla to track you, the very thing the browser is supposed to be designed not to do. Are they keeping track of which updates each user has installed? I don't know, but they're generating traffic
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I hacked my Firefox with an enterprise settings file to turn off the notifications. The 'Enterprise Policy Generator' add-on is very helpful at ending these annoyances. I'm still happily using Firefox 68 ESR. I should not have had to do this though, but who ever said Firefox engineers were listening to actual users.
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If you ask for charm and humor from Redmond you get Clicky (or maybe even Bob).
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Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:5, Informative)
> the people who work for Microsoft lack social ability.
It is worse then that. They have ZERO respect for their customers who use Windows.
When you install Windows 10 there is a Choose privacy settings for your device screen. There is one setting called Diagnostic data that reads:
Guess what two choices it offers?
* Basic
* Full
Where the fuck is the NONE setting ???
Who the fuck thought this telemetry/spyware was a good idea that you can't even OPT OUT???
But everyone just bends over and gives Microsoft a free pass instead of holding them accountable.
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I already use Linux and macOS on my rigs. I tell friends and family that I don't support Windows 10. What else do you want me to do?
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Where the fuck is the NONE setting ???
Reserved for people who pay.
Who the fuck thought this telemetry/spyware was a good idea that you can't even OPT OUT???
Considering they were cleared of any GDPR wrongdoing it would seem you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Even countries like Germany and the Netherlands were okay with this data collection after investigation.
Or do you think you know more about this data collection than experts who used legal force to get MS to divulge exactly what they were doing and then proceeded to investigate?
Psst. I get it man, they are all lying to us. I also know who at the FBI authroised the attack
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What came after didn't surprise me at all.
And on top of that you're required to pay for the license. I'd rather pay a bit more of mo
Re:Lacking social ability? (Score:4, Insightful)
"What's most distressing is the lack of any attempt at charm or humor in these notifications. Are they all written by engineers?"
I mean if that is your biggest complaint...
Is it any less offensive if someone tells you to "please kindly" go fuck yourself? At least you know where you stand with engineers. None of this charm or humour marketing bullshit attempting to water down what very much is still a fuck yourself comment to the user.
Blogger needs to make up his mind (Score:5, Insightful)
The premise of this article is that no one is using Microsoft Edge and Microsoft is desperate. But, the video link towards the bottom - a video by the same blogger - has a description which implies Apple is upset that Edge is so successful. Well, which is it?
BTW why would anyone watch a more-than-8-minutes-long video just to show us that "Apple got upset when I used Microsoft edge"? The link text mildly piqued my curiousity, so I popped over there, saw the length and immediately closed that tab without playing the video. I fully expect that 8+ minute video includes at least 7 minutes 30 seconds of watching this guy repetitively blather on... trust me, dude, nobody finds you that interesting.
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More like, 6 minutes of blathering, and 2 minutes of sponsorship messages and begging for likes and Patreon support to help me deliver great new content!
I don't bother watching any tech videos on YouTube anymore. I just like the smaller channels that talk about retro hardware, because those guys still treat online videos as a fun hobby.
Re:Blogger needs to make up his mind (Score:5, Insightful)
YouTube is ideal for people who want a 5-minute explanation on how to perform a 10-second operation.
(Not knocking YouTube itself as it's great for my main interests.)
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Not to get too far off-topic, but that reminds me of my dad. He was a classic electrical engineer. Every time he needed my help to do something around the house, he'd spend 5 hours explaining in excruciating detail what he needed to do... and then 5 minutes actually doing it.
It was fun to listen to the things he did at work in the 80's, but man, it was so hard having a casual conversation. 8)
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Depending on whose stats you use Edge is apparently about level with Safari, which is actually kinda impressive given that on iOS devices your choice is basically Safari or a Safari shell. Firefox is around the same level.
Beyond that it's all Chrome, and 1-2% of people still clinging to Internet Explorer.
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I fully expect that 8+ minute video includes at least 7 minutes 30 seconds of watching this guy repetitively blather on... trust me, dude, nobody finds you that interesting.
If it were thirty minutes I'd expect it have twenty seven minutes of "but first, let me introduce myself", but at only eight, you are probably right.
Does Bing correctly understand (Score:1)
Can't make everyone happy (Score:2)
How can I please them both?
Re:Can't make everyone happy (Score:4, Insightful)
For all four of those, abstinence works best.
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There's a difference between Chrome bitching about Google and Windows bitching about Bing. If it were just Edge, I guess the parallel would be apt.
Beyond the fact that Chrome is just and app, and Windows is the OS that still has monopoly power as the default OS on just about every PC sold, both Chrome and Edge have to rely on Windows - and for Windows to be telling Chrome users that they should be using Bing isn't too cool.
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And Google Chrome is exercising the same Search Engine bitching on Linux.
But as you say, having the OS make you use their company's product on a third party application is not cool.
So I use Bing (Score:2)
So I use Bing and up pops a notice that I should use Bing.?
Re: So I use Bing (Score:2)
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Yes. It is set as the default. I use it, and up pops the message. I don't care, but it is kind of peculiar.
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Maybe you have it set as your default search engine, but it is really using you?
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This hypothetical situation ("I use Bing") never happens, which is why the popup always pops up.
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Bing has been my default search engine for a few years already, in my default browser Opera. I get better search results than I do in Google.
The flaw in that campaign's logic (Score:2)
Normally, when someone / some company "recommends" something, the assumption is that that person / company is trustworthy and people tend to follow their advice.
The clincher here is, who trusts Microsoft or follows their advice? What were their marketdroid smoking to believe "Microsoft recommends" will convince anyone to switch?
The assumption is what? (Score:2)
Never take unsolicited advice, except right now.
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If you don't trust Microsoft why do you use their OS?
I don't personally. But I have to at work. And I suspect "stuck with Windows at work" is a non-negligible portion of the Windows userbase these days.
Re:The flaw in that campaign's logic (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't because it's my dream job. Honestly, I could never be happier in any other company for a long list of reasons.
They're a Windows shop because it's an old tech company (35-some years old) that manufactures small custom electronic products, and they started out with a slew of tools that typically only run on Windows - like LabView, Libero, AutoCAD then SolidWorks...
But get this: I have a lot of freedom in that company, and I've already set up 3 custom testing stations that run entirely on Linux, and my employers - and the engineers that use them - love them; they work well, they don't crash, they don't have the quirks other Windows-based testers have, and they want more of them.
So I have a very good shot at uprooting what is essentially simply "historical" Windows usage - especially since a lot of the Windows-only tools they use are now available on Linux also. So not only do have a dream job, I actually have a fighting chance to convert an entire company away from Microsoft. Who wouldn't want that eh? :)
Re: The flaw in that campaign's logic (Score:2)
They're a Windows shop because it's an old tech company (35-some years old) that manufactures small custom electronic products, and they started out with a slew of tools that typically only run on Windows - like LabView, Libero, AutoCAD then SolidWorks...
Ahem.
LabView was Mac-Only for at least the first half-decade (until the mid-1990s), and is still fully-supported on macOS.
Similarly, after originally being available, then unavailable, for Macs, AutoCAD returned to the Mac with Version 12 (IIRC), shortly after the transition to Intel.
The only reference for "Libero" is a Mail App. But it appears to be available for both macOS and iOS. If this is the wrong "Libero", I apologize.
SolidWorks continue to be buttheads about Mac and Linux support; but many people r
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Why don't you get a different job? What job requires Windows in 2021?
You assuming that people use Windows because their job requires it, which is silly. My job does not require Windows, in that I could do it just as well or better with Linux, but the PHBs in my company love Windows so much that we are locked down to use it. And I'm not going to ditch my job over this.
Maybe Bing plus Edge... (Score:2)
... is the browser/search engine combination I need. Edge tends to become catatonic -- repeatedly -- on my workplace Win10 PC. Maybe it's because I chose to not use Bing for my searches.
Sadly, my employer's IT roadmap has chosen the Microsoft Way and end using internally developed applications, even though most of those work much better with Firefox (which is what the internal application developers prefer). We can look forward to that decision making everyone's work life miserable^Winteresting.
Sure... (Score:3)
and? (Score:2)
...and Gmail and Google.com keep telling me to switch to Chrome. So what?
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It is cute that you think that paying for Windows gets you any say in how Windows works.
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How much is your privacy worth?
Did a court ruling just expire? (Score:3)
I thought most of the monopoly tying, cross-product activities, and similar had been addressed by court orders, settlements, and consent decrees. Did one of these expire recently, or do they need another monopoly abuse lawsuit?
Using their position on the operating system market to gain share in the search engines market is still illegal tying.
Can it be disabled? (Score:2)
I can see the massive amount of shit we'll have to deal with at work when/if the unwashed masses get this message and say yes. We already have simple things such as pdfs not working because some moron made Edge the default browser.
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one time I told my browser to not open a pdf, and it's been a couple years but Chrome only downloads my pdf's. Maybe I'll bing it and see if there's a solution to reset this configuration.
Not all bad (Score:2)
On the plus side, Bing isn't filled with advertising like Google Search is. The minus, if it's not a commercial product or pop-culture, Bing doesn't have any answers.
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It also has less DMC take down notices for when you are searching for stuffs that might be copyrighted.
Other than that I still use google.
Google search is slowly getting worse and worse as they keep getting forced to nerf their own search results.
Still can't (Score:2)
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Gahh...meant to moderate funny
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Bothersome Internet Nag Generator
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DuckDuckGo is using Bing results with extra data a (Score:4, Interesting)
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Changing your default search is easy except if you are using Chrome on some OS
Google sells access to your data as do many other tech companies
Both of those are incorrect.
Changing your default search engine in Chrome is trivially easy. Open the settings and simply select your preferred one from the drop-down menu. At most you might have to scroll down a bit to see it. In fact Chrome helpfully collects search engines from sites you visit, under "manage search engines", so if the one you want isn't in the default list you will find it there after visiting the site once.
Google does not sell access to your data. Doing so would be illegal in the EU and
Google's Facebook? (Score:2)
Oddball comment here.... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm going to avoid the bickering and tell you this: I use Bing daily. It's my search engine on my browser and on my phone.
It's fine. Very good, actually. There are situations where I clearly need to use Google instead. Google seems more up to the minute, for one thing. If I'm looking for results that reflect the last hour or two, I'm probably better off using Google. But for most cases, Bing is fine.
One thing that saves me a lot of time is that when I get a page of search results in Bing, I can right-click the URL and it will copy the actual URL, not some Googleized version of it.
But if you're going to ask what on Earth inspired me to start using Bing in the first place, the answer is simple: I dislike Google more than I dislike today's Microsoft.
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I'm going to avoid the bickering and tell you this: I use Bing daily.
So do I. Best search engine for porn bar none.
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So do I. Best search engine for porn bar none.
That's Bang
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Today's Microsoft is the same as yesterday's Microsoft, except they aren't in a position to dominate all of computing any more... only desktop computing. You can thank Linux for the erosion of their grasp, despite Microsoft's best efforts to kill it.
The fact that the Windows license gives Microsoft the rights to do basically anything with your data, and Telemetry gives them the ability, is proof positive that Microsoft has not improved. At all.
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But if you're going to ask what on Earth inspired me to start using Bing in the first place, the answer is simple: I dislike Google more than I dislike today's Microsoft.
Exactly the same here. That, plus I search frequently on current social and political "hot button" issues and trust google even less than I trust Microsoft to provide an unbiased result. I've found that Bing works well, most of the time. If I'm disappointed with the search result then I'll try google, and, I admit, sometimes find something which Bing missed.
So does google? (Score:2)
Not any more of a nuisance than... (Score:2)
...refusing an offer to buy a huge .stl file library for pennies on the dollar... ... get into bitcoin before it goes to $1,000,000... ... get into crypto before it goes (yuge)...
or any of a dozen ludicrous offers I get via an equal number of avenues, media, or methods. It's annoying, Woo.
Bing... (Score:2)
For those who don't want to see the things governments don't want them to see. Tiananmen Square square and Tank Man not showing up
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For those who don't want to see the things governments don't want them to see. Tiananmen Square square and Tank Man not showing up
Good, I'm bored with the Tiananmen Square story.
What else is new? (Score:3)
Chrome, Mozilla, edge all do this and have dinner so for quite some time. If there is a competing service then you can bet they will do whatever they can to garner users.
I wish it wasn't this way, I'm sick and tired of seeing notifications but it's not going away anytime soon. I wonder what it would be like to be a non techie and switch your browser when the notification popped up and then not change it back
Windows is now bonzi buddy (Score:1)
"Search that gives you back time and money." (Score:4, Insightful)
But not the tank-man or any other politically sensitive things.
Chrome does the same thing (Score:1)
Try bing!!! (Score:2)
First, I'm only on Windows because apps I need only run on Windows and Mac. And the Mac culture kinda creeps me out. The moment the stuff I use is ported to any version of Linux, I'm outta here. And no, they don't work on Wine. I check periodically.
But lessee. Microsoft wants me to get my news and information from... Microsoft... Wow. I'm sorry, I was around in the old days when Microsoft was doing all kinds of nefarious stuff to dominate the industry. I'll never trust them again. I may be forced
Engaging humor circuits (Score:2)
Oh, dear god, save me from the marketeers with their "clever" cutesy notifications. I hate those fscking things! "Wait one moment while we get things set up!" No, there's no "we" here. There's me, and there's an inanimate object. "We" are not getting things set up. "Your inbox is empty! Congratulations!" What makes you think that's worth congratulating anyone about? An empty inbox is not a sign of moral fortitu
And the rest of the world (Score:1)
And the rest of the world has been advised by non communist interests that we shouldn't. Why is that Republicans and communists seem to have the same agenda.
No questions (Score:2)
"Animals are such agreeable friends - they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms" --George Eliot (b. 1819)