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Satya Nadella's Closing Windows 11 Remarks Were a Direct Shot Across Apple's Bow (theverge.com) 71

Posted by msmash from the take-that dept.
At the end of a surprisingly eventful, exciting presentation of Windows 11, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella came on the video feed to deliver some closing remarks. He laid out his vision for Windows 11 as a "platform for platform creators," and in doing so, he issued a subtle but nonetheless stinging critique of Apple. From a report: Nadella's speech was almost entirely about building a case that Windows would be a better platform for creators than either macOS or (especially) iOS. He argued that "there is no personal computing without personal agency," insisting that users should be more in control of their computers. Nadella called out the changes Microsoft is making to its app store rules, allowing more types of apps, Android apps, and -- most importantly -- allowing apps to use their own payment systems if they so choose. He said, "A platform can only serve society if its rules allow for this foundational innovation and category creation." That rhetoric sounds vaguely nice and inspiring out of context, but in the specific context of the current debates, lawsuits, and legislation over app store rules, it's a sharp and direct critique.
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Satya Nadella's Closing Windows 11 Remarks Were a Direct Shot Across Apple's Bow More

Satya Nadella's Closing Windows 11 Remarks Were a Direct Shot Across Apple's Bow

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  • Exciting? (Score:3)

    by richy freeway ( 623503 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:12PM (#61517404)

    The beardy fella that seemed to be presenting the show, I spent all the time when the stream was buffering playing "guess which sedative he's on".

  • Everything he said goes for XBox too. Oh, wait...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SirSlud ( 67381 )

      Every single game platform takes a cut of sales, so you can't single out MS there. Microsoft is speaking to desktop application sales and the freedom of developers to offer in app purchases outside of an MS payment system.

      It's a big world out there. You never get anywhere without details. Videogame marketplaces are different than desktop application marketplaces, both by function and by practice.

      • Every single game platform takes a cut of sales, so you can't single out MS there.

        They all need to open their platforms.

        • That's called a PC. You just asked for them to sell you a PC. Which Microsoft does. They numerous first party PCs and innumerable vast endless choices for third party gaming PCs.

          Microsoft also let's you play most Xbox games that they sell on PC or Xbox and even continue from your game saves.

          • Console makers go out of their way to prevent you from running your own things on the console. That shouldn't be allowed.

            If a device can be updated with a new firmware, you should also be allowed to install your own firmware. If a device can run apps, you should also be allowed to install your own apps.

            • Consoles are just shitty PCs in a box now. Why would you care?

              • Because freedom is important.

                • So make your own console. You are free to do that.

                  You are trying to tell the people who actually do make things that they must do it your way, because freedom is important...

                  • You are trying to tell the people who actually do make things that they must do it your way, because freedom is important...

                    Yes, that is 100% accurate. It is exactly what I am trying to do.

                    • Well then put your own damn shitty PC in a fancy box and try to convince others to support it.

                      I'll wait.

                    • No thanks. I'd rather support laws that will force other people to open their devices.

                      Incidentally, I have built my own computer, but no one would buy it.

      • Every single game platform takes a cut of sales, so you can't single out MS there.

        Yet Apple is Teh Evilz for doing so. Ask anyone.

    • Oh wait what? You forgot that you can do the same on an Xbox?
      It's called Xbox Dev mode, and there is literally nothing stopping you from making an third-party app store for the Xbox.

  • Let's consider the source of the criticism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timholman ( 71886 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:13PM (#61517408)

    That rhetoric sounds vaguely nice and inspiring out of context, but in the specific context of the current debates, lawsuits, and legislation over app store rules, it's a sharp and direct critique.

    ... and if that critique was coming from anyone but Microsoft, it might even be meaningful.

    Any company that markets an OS like Windows that tracks every thing you do and sends all that telemetry back to Richmond doesn't have a moral leg to stand on. Microsoft's only real gripe is that that Apple beat them to the punch. If they were in Apple's place, they'd be doing the same thing that Apple is doing in spades.

    • Re:Let's consider the source of the criticism (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DRJlaw ( 946416 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:18PM (#61517432)

      Any company that markets an OS like Windows that tracks every thing you do and sends all that telemetry back to Richmond doesn't have a moral leg to stand on. Microsoft's only real gripe is that that Apple beat them to the punch. If they were in Apple's place, they'd be doing the same thing that Apple is doing in spades.

      and vice versa [mspoweruser.com].

      So which Apple are you supporting here? iOS apple or Mac OS Apple?

      Which Microsoft are you supporting here? Microsoft Store Microsoft or Microsoft Windows Microsoft?

      It's almost as if you can't wrap your mind around the concept that essentially all people and entities are flawed. You support the good parts and decry the bad, rather than refusing to anything not lead by the pure of heart.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by edis ( 266347 )

      Microsoft in the Apple's place? You must well know by now why it couldn't.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SirSlud ( 67381 )

      Microsoft's only real gripe is that that Apple beat them to the punch. If they were in Apple's place, they'd be doing the same thing that Apple is doing in spades.

      This makes no sense. They're free to operate their store the same way Apple does. What does Apple having 'beaten them to the punch' do to prevent as much?

      I think you're trying to give yourself a gold star for identifying that MS allowing in app purchases to occur outside their payment pipeline, cut free, is driven by strategic product/ecosystem d

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by u19925 ( 613350 )

      Indeed. This is the company which used to charged for Windows license for a machine that was shipped with no Windows. The manufacturers had to pay Windows-Tax even for shipping Window-less machine if they wanted to be Windows OEM.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > Any company that markets an OS like Windows that tracks every thing you do and sends all that telemetry back to Richmond doesn't have a moral leg to stand on

      JFC, would you retards get over it already, or are you carrying this bullshit with you until you die, are you really so sad that it's going to be the last thing on your mind in the hospital bed? You're so full of pointless bile that you can't even tell the difference between Redmond and Richmond.

      EVERYTHING sends back telemetry now - video games, op

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      Apple is losing creators in droves. Rick Beato did a video on it because he was disgusted with Apple. I think it's entitled Apple, it's great if you like crap. Then he shows his apple equipment and why it's crap.

      Apple may be in a position of being too little too late. Still charge too much. They needlessly get rid of devices too soon. My Ipad it seemed like I had it a short time and now I can't update it. Matter of fact I think I've had no updates longer than I had updates at this point. Unit still works fi

  • Does he mean more like Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:21PM (#61517440)

    He argued that "there is no personal computing without personal agency," insisting that users should be more in control of their computers.

    So will Windows 11 be more like Linux? Will we be able to control what information our computers send to & receive from Redmond? Will regular users be able to turn off advertising? Will we be able to make all those annoying little alerts go away while we're trying to get some work done?

    I only use Windows at work. No other option. Everything else is blissfully free & open source, secure, & easily customisable.

    • Microsoft are slowly forcing people onto Linux. If everyone has to upgrade to 11 because they are going to stop delivery updates to the last OS ever then everyone might as well get onto Linux.

    • Yes, that line about "there is no personal computing without personal agency" made me immediately think, "That's so rich coming from a company that send reams of data back to the mothership". Until I get a control panel that shows me *everything* that is being sent, and allows me to turn off whatever data I do not want being fed back, this is just another form of corporate BS. I am really thinking that Linux is the way forward (as long as World of Tanks runs well).
    • What we need is someone from Canonical or RedHat (or some other corp?) pointing out the absolute hypocrisy of that statement while spotlighting the uncontrollable and increasing telemetry baked into Windows.

      If you can think of someone the corporate suits would actually listen to and respect, please speak up. I'm not asking for any nuts from FSF to speak to it; few people give them credence anymore. Linus himself might make a decent mouthpiece, but he's probably still a little too geeky for Wall St and

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        I think it is beyond the realm of possibility for someone from Canonical or Redhat or any other large player to get their anti-MS message through their companies' lawyers and marketing depts and actually be published. Those internal organizations are there to prevent risk so that nothing really boatrocking makes it outside. They get paid for this and will preserve their paychecks no matter what.

    • You can do that now with win10. A few lines in the HOSTS file or a third party firewall will do the trick
  • that tried to wall off their garden with the launch of Windows 10? I distinctly remember how the new Win 10 APIs basically locked you into their store, and how much Epic Megagames called them out on it and the risks of letting them do it (specifically they'd get to take a 30% cut of all software development w/o adding all that much value).

    • Microsoft has been trying to squeeze their disfigured feet into Apple's shoes since Windows RT. They'd love to have their users locked up inside a Microsoft walled garden, but it seems the vast majority of people who are willing to tolerate this sort of consumer-hostile behavior are already beholden to Apple. That's why they call it vendor lock-in.

  • Make your computer your bitch. Not the other way around.

  • "Team" player (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jaegs ( 645749 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:34PM (#61517490) Homepage Journal

    Nadella: "there is no personal computing without personal agency,"

    So, we're baking Teams right into Windows 11 [slashdot.org].

  • He is surely taking the piss, right? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Windows has always stood for sovereignty for creators and agency for consumers"

    Are you fucking kidding me? Windows has always been absolutely notorious for not doing what consumers / end users want it to, and also for doing sneaky shit behind their back. It's notoriously disempowering, and remains that way to this day.

    This guy is full of shit.

  • I'll believe Microsoft is the shining example of liberating users and defending personal agency when they roll back forced automatic updates and allow users to choose their own again. When creating a login account for my personal computer isn't automatically linked to an online account and when Microsoft doesn't have the ability to reset my local computer's passwords by default. You can't even create a local-only non-linked account any more, except on some vendor-modified versions of Windows. You have to

    • You can't even create a local-only non-linked account any more, except on some vendor-modified versions of Windows. You have to create an online one then go back and through the configuration to change the login to local.

      No, that is not true and never has been true. Creating a local account is more difficult than it should be, but it is not impossible.

      • Re:I'll believe it when... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Excelcia ( 906188 ) <slashdot@excelcia.ca> on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:57PM (#61517554) Homepage Journal

        No, that is not true and never has been true. Creating a local account is more difficult than it should be, but it is not impossible.

        It certainly has been true [pcmag.com], and as far as I know, still is. Sticking the option behind a "continue with limited setup" caption that only appears when you fool your computer into thinking there is absolutely no network access at all is not exactly what I'd call giving people the ability. It's what Douglas Adams would call putting it "into a locked filing cabinet in the back of a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'beware of the leopard'".

  • emulators with roms ok as well?

  • And yet they are forcing Microsoft accounts (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xack ( 5304745 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @02:42PM (#61517524)
    And Internet access for the home edition. Plus TPM 2.0 chips.

    • Plus TPM 2.0 chips

      The PC Health checker is completely misleading but it looks like TPM 1.2 will be supported [microsoft.com]. Microsoft will recommend you don't upgrade, but won't actually stop you.

      Those without TPM chips are out of luck.

  • Empowering corporate forces by taking advantage of the authoritarian powers, paying slave wages, housing people in areas reminiscent of slave quarters, getting around environmental laws by moving their pollution to another country, actively empowering authoritarian powers with intellectual properties and services, openly putting cutting edge technology adjacent to authoritarian intelligence organizations. Then after all this claiming "free market economics" in markets that are not free in any sense of the w

  • avoid subscription cloudy servers.

  • what (Score:2)

    by redback ( 15527 )

    "insisting that users should be more in control of their computers"

    thats a bit rich coming from Microsoft.

  • insisting that users should be more in control of their computers.

    Can I turn off the telemetry? Can I block "updates" that install programs I don;t want or remove those that a used to have? Can you stop circumventing my blocks?

    What a fucking hypocrite.

    • Yes. Get the pro version and you can manually select updates

      • Yes. Get the pro version and you can manually select updates

        The Pro version? Hahaha. Perhaps you meant the Enterprise LTSC version, but even that will be a disappointment.

        No. You can't turn off telemetry. You can turn it down, a little bit.

        No. You cannot block undesired updates. You can defer/delay them for a brief period, but they will be installed. You will ultimately receive them regardless of your preferences.

        No. They continue to circumvent setting, registry changes, GPO and other attempts to block the installation of specific updates and "feature enhancements".

  • Great. Where do I get my Windows XP GUI?

  • Not a chance in hell (Score:3)

    by clambake ( 37702 ) on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:04PM (#61518520) Homepage

    I recently moved from OSX to Windows recently for random hardware reasons, and I have to say, Windows is an absolute garbage interface at every level. NOTHING is consistent, EVERYTHING is ugly. Things are actively counter-intuitive, like I'd have trouble making them worse if you paid me to try. Like when they have four totally different shape of button a single settings page, half of which look like links (but only sometimes, until you hover over them), and the reminder don't look anything like each other. Half the time pressing one will pop up new windows, but half the time they slide in new panels (with "back" buttons that often lead to totally random places), and sometimes they pop up a completely different kind of window with a completely different widget set clearly from some ancient Windows NT API. And on top of that, the random placement of text, buttons and menu bars means you have to pixel-hunt for simple setting boxes as if it were a sierra game. I could go on for a long, long time.

    Microsoft would have wipe and rewrite their entire interface to even begin to compete, and Windows 11 is not even an attempt at that.

  • "insisting that users should be more in control of their computers" - Then let's go back to Windows 7 you nit-wit!

    • You're forgetting that Windows Users are the owners of the software.. which the owner is Microsoft and the true users are the advertisers. The so-called end-user is now a licensee, rather than an owner because it isn't software: it's software-as-a-service. The licensees are the products now, not the software a licensee might have to pay for (or might not if you keep rolling your old machine up with old licenses). The users pay Microsoft to play ads to the licensees and Microsoft cries themselves to sleep on

  • No one is in control of their pc even if they use Linux. So do you trust random developers to maintain trust â" we already know that doesnâ(TM)t work â" do you trust Apple to control the developers? Or do we trust our old pal Linus? Pick your poison. I have had 20 years of windows garbage and Microsoft is largely responsible for the modern day expectation that hacking is the norm. Shoot when I was 16 I could break into my own windows machines in a matter of minutes.

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