Windows 11 Requires an Internet Connection and Microsoft Account At Setup (microsoft.com) 187
Slashdot reader xack points out that Windows 11, Microsoft's next version of its desktop operating system, will require a Microsoft account and internet connection for setup. They write: Based on Microsoft's official requirements you need an internet connection to install Windows 11. This means people without internet access at home, especially in rural and poorer households, won't be able to use Windows 11. I hope Microsoft fixes this problem before release. Previous versions of Windows "would let you opt out of Microsoft accounts by creating a local account instead," notes The Verge. "It's possible you'll still be able to use a local account afterwards." As for the internet requirement, The Verge says it "may make sense since Windows 11 will largely be delivered via a Windows Update, like many of the updates to Windows 10, so you'd need an internet connection to install it on your PC."
Microsoft is also changing the Windows 11 minimum requirements, though they are only slightly higher than what's required to run Windows 10.
Microsoft is also changing the Windows 11 minimum requirements, though they are only slightly higher than what's required to run Windows 10.
In the future. (Score:4, Insightful)
Slashdot reader xack points out that Windows 11, Microsoft's next version of its desktop operating system, will require a Microsoft account and internet connection for setup. They write:
Yup, games, software, etc. Welcome to the previous future.
Re:In the future. (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 10 does not require a Microsoft Account, and neither did any prior version. Windows 10 tried to trick you into thinking you need one, but the account only exists to track you in the store. I also have many many games not requiring any account at all, others that only require an account for online play, and some that require an account only via a third party (ie, install via steam so you need a steam account but none for the game).
Do not just sit idly by and allow this to happen. It is YOUR computer, and YOU own it.
Re: In the future. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: In the future. (Score:4, Insightful)
Get one if you want one. I just don't agree with making it mandatory. It's about as stupid as Apple requiring an Apple ID on a mac in order to get xcode.
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So an Apple ID is indeed required, even if it's not on a computer. This was not true in the past.
Re: In the future. (Score:5, Insightful)
The MS accounts have some parental control options that work pretty well if you have younger kids.
The usefulness of a feature to some people has no bearing whatsoever on the appropriateness of users being forced into using it. This is especially true given that a Windows account is by its nature a deep invasion into privacy. Add in the fact that outside of our own geek clique Microsoft holds a monopoly position on the desktop, and Windows 11 represents a very chilling development in computing.
Another concern I have is that Windows 11, like Windows 10, may effectively be forced onto people's computers whether they want it or not. We're looking at the digital bleeding edge of totalitarianism here.
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Ah, thegarbz - ever the devil's advocate and always up for a fight. Bless you man, the place wouldn't be the same without you.
Whether MS simply is free to do as they please, or whether they should be free to do so, are separate issues. If our politicians had integrity and weren't oinking away at the corporate trough, Microsoft and their like would have their hands tight much tighter, legislatively speaking. And the world would be a far better place.
As for making a choice, I chose Linux long ago. Not so long
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If our politicians had integrity and weren't oinking away at the corporate trough, Microsoft and their like would have their hands tight much tighter, legislatively speaking. And the world would be a far better place
Government should not be involved in that part. As you mention afterwords, we do have a choice (I use linux as well.) Trying to force windows to have the same privacy features or functions of linux is the wrong way and very anti-choice
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I'm not up for a fight, but I do very often play devil's advocate. And nothing makes this more apparent than me fully agreeing with you. It would be great if MS was just a great corporate citizen altruistically making the world a better place.
Unfortunately only non profits are structured like that, and even they often screw that up.
But nonetheless corporations are just that, soleless money-making machines that nonetheless can do with their products what they want within the limits of the law. (I'm intereste
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If this is disagreeable with you, well it's your PC. Install the OS that works the way you want on it
Cant. They don't exist.
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In later versions you had to turn off your wifi or ethernet to get the local account option.
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I installed it within the last year and I did not have to do this. However, finding the local account option is indeed non-obvious and hidden.
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Where is it? I've not see any way past the user account screen without skipping the internet connection step.
Re:In the future. (Score:4, Informative)
Try disconnecting from the internet during installation. If there is no network connection it makes it easier to skip.
Otherwise from memory there is a hard to see blue-on-blue "skip" link somewhere on that screen. You can definitely skip it, it just uses a dark pattern to make you think otherwise.
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Well enough that this xack guy missed it apparently.
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You own the computer but you only lease the OS, so youy must follow the lease terms if you want to use that OS.
You're free to use another OS if you don't like Windows.
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I am not sure it is really leased. It's kind of legally dubious, given that no contracts are signed, you cannot return for a refund, and there is no renewal, end date, etc. This has been a question since software first showed up on retail shelves and it's never been fully resolved as far as I know.
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You are presented with a license agreement which you can accept or reject. You don't get a bill of sale, at most you get a receipt for the price you paid for the license.
You don't own the software, you are allowed to use it.
IANAL (actually I am, but not an American one) but it has all the major features of licensing and not the essential one of the sale, aka the ownership..
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FTFY.
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https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]
Depending on how you obtained the Windows software, this is a license agreement between (i) you and the device manufacturer or software installer that distributes the software with your device; or (ii) you and Microsoft Corporation (or, based on where you live or, if a business, where your principal place of business is located, one of its affiliates) if you acquired the software from a retailer. Microsoft is the device manufacturer for devices produced by Microsoft or one of its affiliates, and Microsoft is the retailer if you acquired the software directly from Microsoft. Note that if you are a volume license customer, use of this software is subject to your volume license agreement rather than this agreement.
It's a freaking license agreement not a sales contract. But what do I know, I just read the document.
And you didn't fulfilled the sales contract, you just paid the licensing fee.
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Not much.
If you buy a PC with Windows, or a retail copy, the sales contract is performed with payment and delivery. There's no legal need for any "license agreement", only a functional one. Copying and installing, copying from disk to RAM, etc., the software is necessary for its use and function, and is therefore fair use. Microsoft's further rights are protected by copyright, which prevents making additional copies (for use, backup is OK).
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It is YOUR computer, and YOU own it.
Indeed. And you can run something other than the Windows subscription service on your computer. That is something within your power.
As shitty of a move it is the reality is it's MS's product to do whatever the heck they want with. Unfortunately we can't just fork it.
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It also requires a TPM chip, so that's never going to happen.
Re:In the future. (Score:4, Informative)
After working at length with TPM 2, I'm not sure the point of this particular paranoia.
You got a little chip that has registers that extend with measurements of various components and settings, a crypto engine that can do very slow crypto using inaccessible private keys and that can limit those actions based on those registers, and the tiniest amount of persistent storage that can similarly operate according to restrictions like the values in the registers.
It has no networking, remote services have no way of knowing if a claimed TPM result is from a real TPM or fake. I know at one point people made a link between DRM and TPM, but as far as I know that never materialized (I can't think of a way for TPM to provide any value in that capacity)
However, it is useful if you want to encrypt your storage but not have to type a password at every boot, but not have that be trivially defeated by booting a rescue disk or entering special parameters into the boot loader, or replacing the boot loader. Or to offer up weak PIN or biometric authentication only under circumstances that demonstrate that the hardware, firmware, and software state are running in a manner consistent witht those being acceptably safe if the user opts in.
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It's because the name "Trusted Platform Module" implies that *someone* trusts it. You've been working at length with it, so maybe you have reason to trust it. But I don't know what it does, so I have no reason to trust it myself. Historically, blindly trusting something that says "Trust me" has never been good advice. So I default to not trusting it and being suspicious of anything that requires it. It's in my machine
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And clueless rubes on the internet will whine "OMG!! Evil Microsoft!!"
The less clueless ones will have been saying that all along.
Use Alt-F4 at the create account prompt (Score:5, Informative)
The issue is apparently only for Home, Pro version allows a local account by default.
If you use Alt-F4 at the account creation prompt on Home, it will allow you to create a local account. I hope they don't fix this.
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Great, point me towards the Solidworks 2020 build.
Re: Use Alt-F4 at the create account prompt (Score:2)
As usual. Microsoft buys their bosses, air-gap requirements drop for Windows, and everyone lives happily ever after.
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Installer just a downloader? (Score:3)
Sounds like it will be delivered something like the ClickToRun versions of Office, where the installer is really just a downloader. Essentially WindowsPE with some network drivers and an downloader. Even if you have lots of bandwidth its gonna take a while. Makes sense do this download process exactly once and clone from there.
Windows Update (Score:3)
Every version of windows since Windows 7 was "largely be delivered via a Windows Update". So what new computers will only come with Windows 10 preinstalled? Or won't be able to boot without internet?
That justification makes zero sense.
not an OS, a virus (Score:5, Funny)
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Why do people wilfully attach themselves to a ball & chain?
Oh Slashdot isn't that bad.
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What alternative is there? Linux doesn't run the apps they need and they probably don't know anyone who can offer free tech support. MacOS is no batter, Apple love their walled garden.
Actually some people are choosing alternatives. Tablets (Android/iOS) and Chromebooks are very popular, i.e. the apps which kept them on Windows are no longer the big draw they once were. Not much good for businesses though.
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People lock themselves into windows only solutions and then complain that they have to use windows.
Honestly, though, most window's home users wouldn't even know that they were running Linux as long as Chrome or another browser was installed.
If you need tech support to run any of the current popular linux distros, you are doing something wrong.
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I shared the story with a colleague and he shrugged: "you need google account to use an android device (*) and you need apple account to use an iPhone. So why would you expect different with Windows?"
*) ignoring F-droid and similar niches
TBH, from a BFU point of view it makes sense.
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Why do people wilfully attach themselves to a ball & chain? No, I'm not talking about marriage. Although the EULA is more restrictive than any prenup.
Because it works, and the EULA doesn't give up things people actually care about?
Same reason you stand idly by as the British fishing industry industry is decimated, it's not a thing you care about. No doubt you'll happily trade something in return for not taking action in support of the British fishing industry.
Windows 11 HOME requires MS account (Score:5, Insightful)
There, fixed that for you
MS is pushing accounts hard (Score:4, Interesting)
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MS teams is insidious and needs to die.
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WTF Microsoft?!
Quite easy, a lot of functionality *requires* an account. Office subscriptions, OneDrive, cloud sync, user experience sync, the fucking clipboard. MS is pushing accounts because they are a cloud company now.
Will you be able to install EXE dirvers? unzip fil (Score:2)
Will you be able to install EXE drivers? unzip files? In the installer?
Or is this an BIG FUCK YOU to some one with an self built system that did not get pro?
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Can you join an Captive Portal wifi network? (Score:2)
Can you join an Captive Portal wifi network in the installer?
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airports and other places with free wifi sometimes have an captive portal or even an captive portal with an basic password.
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MS account or no upgrade? (Score:2, Insightful)
Or will we see MS take the typical MS approach of doing the upgrade and then say "Hey, you need an MS account before you can use your computer again?" and then maybe call it a "small issue" in case the backlash is to huge for even them to ignore?
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Re: No real change (Score:3, Insightful)
I really have to wonder what it must be like at Microsoft right now. The stewards of the most used operating system are frivolously wasting any all good will in a short sighted attempt to squeeze out their promotions. An operating system needs to be utilitarian in nature. Like a well seasoned cast iron skillet. It doesn't need gizmos and gadgets. The folks over at Microsoft keep losing sight of that and it's been a war on users now for more than a decade. With Linux and ChromeOS at 4.5% market share I hope
Is windows 11 optional? (Score:2)
I run win 10 pro, with updates set to notify-then-download-manually. Will I be able to identify and avoid the installation of win 11? Or will the thing eventually be forced as some updates currently are (despite my settings)?
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I'd keep a version in a VM (as I do but for different reasons) to isolate it and roll back to any previous state you prefer.
You can try updates in a separate VM. There is little reason to run Windows on bare metal when one owns a reasonably modern PC. All my VMs are on Linux hosts which are a convenient way to preserve Windows for a few applications, there being no reason to want it as a primary OS.
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There is little reason to run Windows on bare metal when one owns a reasonably modern PC.
Oh like this [youtu.be]. Still doing VFIO [reddit.com] is kind of tricky.
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There is little reason to run Windows on bare metal when one owns a reasonably modern PC.
Other than not yet having budgeted $199.99 for a retail Windows Pro license. Per the EULA, as I understand it:
That and I'm not sure that most 11.6" class laptops support 16 GB of RAM to divide between the host and guest.
Re: Is windows 11 optional? (Score:2)
Because I'm tired of having to search the Internet for dubious activators that may end up being malware only to end up with a deactivated windows next update when i can just pay 3â on ebay for a pro key and not have any hassle when i reboot one in a blue moon to play a game that still resist wine.
But maybe my google-fu is not up to what it was.
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That was my reason as well. Bought it on sale and have gotten many years of use out of Windows 7 pro and will continue to do so as long as I can. Push come to shove I'll stick Windows whatever-number into a guest VM, and do the bulk of my stuff in whatever other OS I can run as a guest (doesn't have to be Linux; that's the beauty of virtualization and the rich repositories of "outdated" software it brings).
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HOME version only (Score:2)
Only the freebie version is going to have this restriction, for now the Pro (for-pay) version will allow a power user to press cancel three times and allow the creation of a local account.
I mean, sure, push back against it, but it is hard to think of a reason for Microsoft to not do this.
Circular dependency (Score:2)
This'll be fun given the state of eg. the Z490 motherboard I installed recently. The firmware versions in the on-board chipsets (Intel wired and wireless) have bugs in them that prevent connectivity until you've installed updated firmware. Installing the updated firmware requires booting into Windows and running the installer or updating the drivers (which installs the updated firmware as part of the driver installation). So how's that work if Windows won't install until you've updated the firmware?
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Buy a supported USB network adapter and next time choose a quality motherboard that's not junk out of the box. (We all get bit sooner or later if we build enough PCs.)
Motherboards should not NEED firmware updates but manufacturers don't give a shit so uses suffer.
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This was a good-quality motherboard (Asrock). The problem was a bug in Intel's stock firmware (separate from the BIOS). What's truly annoying is that the module that handles loading the firmware into the NIC runs under EFI as part of the boot process, but you can't get a package that can be installed from the EFI command line.
Re:Circular dependency (Score:4, Informative)
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Even if Windows 11 Home requires Internet access and a Microsoft account, medium to large businesses and government agencies can use Windows 11 Enterprise offline.
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Turns out you can bypass the screen that requires a Microsoft account by pressing Alt+F4.
For now.
On the prerelease leaked ISO.
Which will likely not be the same version pushed via Windows update.
Which may have this "bug" fixed.
Which nonetheless is not actually documented anywhere leading to users to think there is no other option.
This is not FUD. It *will* affect people.
Microsoft has a lot of big customers who have offline embedded systems running Windows for management
Those customers have dedicated versions of windows and are not running what 99% of users are.
Corporate versions (the ones that matter) won't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Making Windows suck more for users is good news because anything that drives users away from Microsoft is good news for freedom.
Corporate versions won't require that bullshit though I'd love to see MSFT try thus driving more business users to FOSS.
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Android needs an account to do anything other than be a camera.
I've been using Android since 2.3.6 Gingerbread. I've never had a Google account.
Besides camera my phone does calls, texts, email, clock, local calendar, videos, music, podcasts, web browsing, and lots of apps (I think I have 130 installed).
As far as I can tell the only thing you need a Google account for is Gmail. There are lots of non-Google email servers.
No, I just thought of something else. Inexplicably, you can't change the voice of the Google assistant without signing into an account.
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and lots of apps (I think I have 130 installed).
How do you install the apps? Is there a way to skip "login to install" when you go to the store?
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Most of them come from F-Droid, [f-droid.org] but I also use Aurora Store. [f-droid.org]
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With Android you can decline to create a Google account, side-load the FDroid app store and live out of that.
Or just install a Google-free version if you device allows it.
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Backup your phone data every day? Why? Wouldn't daily backup be for pretty high-priority data? Why would I have that on a phone?
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Microsoft playing catchup again (Score:2)
I think Microsoft is only interested in collecting licensing fees from OEMs at this point. The number of people who build their own computers is relatively small these days, and there's no real profit in buying computer parts and selling built computers with pirated windows anymore, so nobody really does it.
The business model for windows these days is to bundle sponsored trialware and freemium (think the new solitaire with ads or paid subscription, candy crush, etc) as well as sales in the windows store, sa
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I find it a bit ironic that Windows 10, the version of Windows I will never have on any machine I own, is the easiest one to obtain with a high seas raid.
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3) Windows 10 KMS is broken open so wide you can stick a truck in it. With a couple of scripts you can activate a completely unactivated Windows 10 install via the HWID method (as if you were upgrading Windows 7 to 10) and Microsoft and the computer itself is none the wiser. Windows 11 probably seeks to fix this.
Why would they? Windows 10 KMS is no different from Windows 8 or Windows 7, both the mechanisms to bypass them as well as the damn tools to do so are the same. MS has left this "problem" unfixed for 13 years. So why panic now?
Didn't they announce the same for Windows 10 (Score:2)
but then backtracked in time for the official release?
is it really a suprise? (Score:2)
Internet vs. Internet on a particular PC (Score:4, Insightful)
If you use a PC to download the update, say to a USB flash drive, then that PC has Internet access. It doesn't mean all PCs that you use have Internet access.
I want my home directory to be human readable (Score:2)
I want my home directory to be human readable.
The only reason I set up Windows without an online account is because I don't want my home directory to look like "C:\Users\Kristo~1.net" instead of "C:\Users\Kriston."
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I want my home directory to be human readable.
The only reason I set up Windows without an online account is because I don't want my home directory to look like "C:\Users\Kristo~1.net" instead of "C:\Users\Kriston."
Yep. I do the same thing. I always setup Windows 10 without an online account and always opt for a offline account. I don't even setup the wifi or connect it to a hard line during the setup process.
I'll have the usual (Score:2)
Does it monitor all the web sites I visit, and how soon can we throw them into jail if they do?
Just in time ... (Score:3)
two weeks ago I finally got motivated to set up my last "Windows only" game using Wine/Lutris.
So now everything I use or play, including all my favorite games, is now running on Linux.
EU- Right to Forget, then re-register (Score:5, Interesting)
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The EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) needs to stomp on this before it starts up.
The existing data policies at MS have been investigated and found to be compliant. Additionally the forced linking requirement only applies to existing products. Presumably MS will just say Windows 11 is a new product and the user can keep using Windows 10 meaning forcing an account there is GDPR compliant.
Unlike say Facebook forcing Facebook accounts on Oculus users after the fact, and while the EU hasn't curb stomped them, the only country to take action against them now longer has Oculus headsets for sal
Linux FTW (Score:2)
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Deat shitbaggers (Score:2)
So you can randomly delete data? So you can randomly break my logon?
Are you sure? (Score:2)
So far that has only been confirmed for "Windows 10 Home".
Re:Not a problem (Score:5, Informative)
It depends upon one's internet connection. I'm rural with a 10 GB cap per month. If Windows requires a large download, it' could cap me out for the month. One more reason to avoid Windows for me. Linux, here I come.
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Please don't poison that important and critical word with your hyperbole. MS doesn't disable or control or lock any Windows installations through its online account, including pirated ones.
DRM is a fucking evil thing that needs to be fought, through your hyperbole you're making people care less and less about it. "Oh I hear Windows is DRM, well that's okay I've never had a problem with it." type of mentality.
Don't make that comparison.
Dial-up (Score:4, Informative)
Those who can afford a computer are unlikly not to have internet.
Some users live outside the service area of fiber, cable, and DSL, and thus rely on dial-up Internet. This is typically 0.05 Mbps up, 0.02 Mbps down, and connection terminating after 1 hour. Will that be enough to satisfy Windows 11?
Re:Dial-up (Score:4, Funny)
For them MS will release Windows 11 banjo edition. it comes with a free piece of wheat to stick in your mouth, and a dating app including a family tree so you can help identify your cousin.