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Facebook Social Networks

Facebook Wants You To Hold Your Next Meeting in VR (cnn.com) 76

Posted by msmash from the shape-of-things-to-come dept.
For those who don't think Zoom meetings are a good enough substitute for the real thing, Facebook has another idea: a virtual reality app that lets you and your coworkers feel like you're sitting around a table in a conference room. From a report: On Thursday, Facebook unveiled Horizon Workrooms, a free app for users of its Oculus Quest 2 headset, a device that starts at $299. The app stands out as the company's most ambitious effort yet to enable groups to socialize in VR and move the still niche medium beyond entertainment uses such as gaming. Workrooms allows up to 16 VR headset users to meet in a virtual conference room, with each of them represented by a customizable cartoon-like avatar that appears as just an upper body floating slightly above a virtual chair at a table. The app supports up to 50 participants in a single meeting, with the rest able to join as video callers who appear in a grid-like flat screen inside the virtual meeting room.

Headset-wearing meeting participants can use their actual fingers and hands to gesticulate in VR, and their avatars' mouths appear to move in lifelike ways while they speak. A virtual whiteboard lets people share pictures or make presentations. "The pandemic in the last 18 months has only given us greater confidence in the importance of this as a technology," Andrew Bosworth, VP of Facebook Reality Labs, said while addressing a (virtual) room of about a dozen people on Tuesday. He said Facebook has been using the app internally for about a year.
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Facebook Wants You To Hold Your Next Meeting in VR More

Facebook Wants You To Hold Your Next Meeting in VR

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  • Who needs to "see" the others in a meeting at all? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @12:41PM (#61708283) Homepage Journal
    I don't get it.

    I"ve been working from home for about 9+ years now.

    Widely dispersed teams.

    VERY rarely has anyone EVER turned on their cameras. We all just use voice.

    This seems to work just fine...why do people seem to need to see someone either in person or in avatar form? Hell, often times, this video just adds overhead to the system which at times can affect voice for some that don't have top speed internet at home, or just when the whole system is strained.

    So far, voice works perfectly for large dispersed teams, at least the many I've been on.

    The biggest obstical is people in different time zones, with many folks often fussing at the east coast folks for scheduling meetings too early.

    This seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

    • Uhh⦠yeah⦠back in the day of virtual circuit switched POTS, we called that a conference callâ¦

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by chill ( 34294 )

        Not the same thing. Conference calls from back in the POTS days didn't allow for interactive chat, realtime screen sharing, and document editing.

        How we conducted meetings back then without GIFs and emojis in chat, I'll never know.

    • Likewise. I think it has to do with getting good managers.

      • Likewise. I think it has to do with getting good managers.

        If anyone could provide an actual source for these, let me know. To the best of my knowledge, they only exist in a hypothetical sense.

    • This is just my own personal experience, but all of my Indian managers seem to want to see people in meetings while my US managers couldn't care less. I don't know if it's some sort of cultural thing or what, but they seem to be very big on seeing people and making sure everyone is 'interacting' during meetings. I always thought they wanted the camera on to make sure you're paying attention, but if that were the case then my US managers would want that too.

      My camera stays off 100% of the time for privac
      • I don't think anyone wants to see me in my every day work attire: T-shirt and Boxer Shorts.

        It's summer, so often no t-shirt.

        On a side note, I keep asking my CPA if I can write off t-shirt and boxer shorts as "business attire" on my taxes.

        I don't think she's taking my question seriously, I need to press her on this. Seems like it would be a legitimate contracting S-Corp tax deduction.

        • I don't think you'll convince anyone that you put on your 'conference' underwear before a call and change out upon completion.

    • This seems to work just fine...why do people seem to need to see someone either in person or in avatar form?

      Same reason for the "gotta come into the office". Body language, facial expressions, auditory and scent cues. You know? The thing we try to simulate with emoticons and ASCII art. :-p

    • This seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

      Far from it. How are you going to show dissatisfaction without actually saying something in a voice call? In VR, you can slump your posture, roll your eyes, look disgusted, on and on! Without those, is a group call really even a meeting?

      • Far from it. How are you going to show dissatisfaction without actually saying something in a voice call?

        Well, for one thing, I'm not a pussy and I actually say something....I vocalize my dissatisfaction, ask questions, press the person talking I disagree with....

        That's how things get done, and how bad ideas are avoided.

    • I'm always doing other stuff in meetings, sometimes related sometimes not depending whether I'm mostly listening or contributing. If someone asks a question, I may have to look elsewhere for the answer. That'll work amazingly well in VR! Or not.

      The old rule was that physical meetings are standup, so no-one pisses about wasting time.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      I don't get it. I've been working from home for about 9+ years now. VERY rarely has anyone EVER turned on their cameras. We all just use voice.

      I'm a software engineer and tech lead (not a people-manager). Everyone on our team uses cameras, by preference, even just two engineers having a quick call with each other about code, at times when a synchronous chat is more efficient than back-and-forth over Slack or similar.

      Why is my experience different from yours? It might be because my company gave everyone a VC device at the start of the pandemic - high quality camera, automatic tracking to keep you in view during the call, just a single screen-tap to

    • One advantage is that people will focus on the meeting and not continue working on their laptops...

    • This seems to work just fine...why do people seem to need to see someone either in person or in avatar form?

      Some 70-90% of communication is non-verbal. We turn on cameras in important meetings for that reason.

      This is especially important if you have a team full of "yes men". You can learn a lot from someone if you can see them roll their eyes as they answer.

  • Let's fix the article headline (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @12:49PM (#61708305)

    "Facebook wants to actually sell some Occulus headsets to ANYONE"

    1) Meetings usually suck

    2) Phone meetings suck a little less, you can work while you pretend to listen.

    3) Cam meetings suck, you have to pretend to be paying attention.

    4) #3, now strap a couple pounds of hardware you may be allergic to, onto your head for hours.

    • Ok, ok, so VR gear might not be ideal. But what if we made folding VR headsets, that’s gotta be the next big thing!

      • What if we made virtual VR headsets? Then they'd weight nothing and since they're virtual they would even be free! I'm a genius!

    • 5) VR makes me throw up

      • When was the last time you used it? Generally curious because VR in the earlier days made me throw up as well. But it seems like the past 5 years worth of R&D has gone almost exclusively into making sure that people don't throw up.

  • Reminds me of SecondLife (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Reminds me of the push SecondLife was making to be more accepted into a corporate setting - I remember working for IBM and we had one of our tech summits held in SecondLife. Unsurprisingly, it didn't stick around.

  • wants (Score:5, Insightful)

    by awwshit ( 6214476 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @12:54PM (#61708315)

    Funny, if FB wants it then I don't.

    • This. If it's good for FB, it's probably net negative for me. I don't care how many products Zuckerface wants to have. I don't want to be one of them. Furthermore, inviting FB to your work settings is a horrible idea. Why would anyone want it?

      • Push the idea to the extreme: a lot of people in the tech world know exactly how bad Facebook is. What happens if your company/boss requires you to have an account? I'm pretty sure you'd have to fill a minimum of information about yourself, then you get tagged by other people you know that were already on Facebook, etc.

        As soon as you open the door to anything related to Facebook, you're screwed.

    • I have yet to work for a company where Facebook wasn't blocked on work computers.

  • replace prison visiting with this at $25+ for an 15 min one.

  • Let me see if I understand this (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DaveV1.0 ( 203135 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @01:00PM (#61708333) Journal
    There will be VR meetings where we can see each other as "cartoon like" avatars that speak and move. And, this is supposed to be something professionals are going to use for business meetings.

    So, like a mii from the wii or a Microsoft live avatar. Yeah....

    That sounds neither comfortable nor effective nor professional. It sounds completely counterproductive to me.

    • So, like a mii from the wii or a Microsoft live avatar.

      I call dibs on "Clippy"!!

      :D

    • I bet there's even going to be lawyers picking a virtual cat as their avatar!

    • There will be VR meetings where we can see each other as "cartoon like" avatars that speak and move. And, this is supposed to be something professionals are going to use for business meetings.

      So, like a mii from the wii or a Microsoft live avatar. Yeah....

      They were trying desperately to avoid the uncanny valley.

      There's a reason why Snow Crash Metaverse made a big deal out of its facial expression software, specifically calling it out as being an extremely exact replica of the real facial expression of the user. The uncanny valley was a well known phenomenon even in 1992 when that book was published. Funny how nothing has changed in nearly 30 years. The valley is still there.

  • I'm a huge VR fan. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @01:06PM (#61708347)

    And I say "oh hell no". This is a horrible idea.
    - VR is not simple nor easy, most meetings even after all this COVID-19 WFH stuff still have people constantly battling with simple mic settings.
    - It's not comfortable for a long run, in cabled environments it's not comfortable seated. - It is a pain to deal with taking HMDs off and when you do where do you put it? They are too massive to have rolling around on the desk. It's bad enough messing with headsets.
    - It's immersive *in an environment* but in general doesn't improve characters.
    - Much of communication is non-verbal. Unless the VR environment mimics facial expressions it'll be a massive step down from a shitty webcam.

    Absolutely everyone should own a VR headset. It's a great technology and so much fun to *play* with. Not to setup conference calls.

  • Not interested (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @01:09PM (#61708355)

    One of the key features of online meetings is that I don't have to see the faces of the other people, let alone be in the same room with them. Why would I want to recreate artificially the one thing I loathe the most about meetings?

    • One of the key features of online meetings is that I don't have to see the faces of the other people, let alone be in the same room with them. Why would I want to recreate artificially the one thing I loathe the most about meetings?

      Because the thing you loathe may be important. A lot of communication is non-verbal. That being said, representing someone with a 3D avatar doesn't fix that. This Facebook idea is literally the worst of all worlds.

      • A lot of communication is non-verbal.

        Not to me. I get exactly the same amount of information from people sitting next to me as from people I write with. In other words, it's like being in the dark for a blind person: It's to my advantage.

        • Not to me. I get exactly the same amount of information from people sitting next to me as from people I write with.

          That is an amazingly upbeat way of writing that you don't understand nonverbal communication, which makes up 70-80% of what someone is telling you regardless of whether you pay attention or not.

          I could have saved myself the typing if you could just have seen me roll my eyes while reading your post.

          • You get used to it after a while. People finally caught on and stopped trying to be sarcastic around me. Even in written communication.

            Not everyone, of course. Only people who had to deal with me for a while.

  • ``He said Facebook has been using the app internally for about a year.''

    Facebook doesn't seem to have been making decisions based on the real world for at least that long.

  • You can have a middle finger though.

  • Facebook Makes Me Want to Puke (Score:3)

    by Arzaboa ( 2804779 ) on Thursday August 19, 2021 @01:18PM (#61708385)

    I remember IBM trying this same thing with Second Life (still around today!) about 15 years ago. They purchased "land" and built a huge stadium for Lou to talk with all of us. People spent hours choosing an avatar. It took 3 conference calls and a tech support call to get it to work for a 15 minute meeting.

    People didn't find that useful.

    --
    I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. - Jimmy Dean

     

  • Headset-wearing meeting participants can use their actual fingers and hands to gesticulate in VR, and their avatars' mouths appear to move in lifelike ways while they speak. A virtual whiteboard lets people share pictures or make presentations.

    What's the point of using VR for meetings? A "virtual whiteboard" -- in a teleconference? That's actually a virtual, virtual whiteboard. See my own fingers and hands? Who cares. Meetings are horrible enough as they are, this will just make things slower and worse.

    I get that FB wants to sell more headsets and have people connect through their portals, but this isn't the way forward for meetings.

  • Instead of everyone showing up to the conference with no mic, no ability to use the software we'll have another level of unusability.

    Bob tried installing the positioning sensors accidentally broke his wall in the process, can't join because there's a contractor installing new drywall.

    Linda got tagged by facebook for trying to create a VR-only account and now she's banned from using it or her real account until she can prove her identity to a bot.

    Vince tried to join with a valve headset instead of the oculus

  • For those few meetings that are actually productive, which would require more than a Zoom call, "meat space" is the only way.

    And if you are all about negotiating and it's a BIG negotiation, again, "meat space" - all those subtle nuances and games people play, completely lost via voice and video chat, would not be gained by VR - if anything, it would be worse.

    Unless you expect every participant to have a ridiculously expensive 3D camera system setup in their home offices, it is going to be avatar based.

    Nobod

  • Ah yes of course you people are opposed to new technology. I remember you luddites were against smartphones too. Most comments on here regarding smartphones in the 2000s were very much anti-smartphone. The consensus was that a phone should just be a phone. Very few people wanted a phone that would do anything other than call or text people. And God forbid anyone suggested touchscreens. Keyboards were clearly vastly superior. Deny it all you want, I remember the attitudes on here. Of course now you all are o

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by caseih ( 160668 )

      I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone.
        -- Bjarne Stroustrup

    • VR has been around since the 90's and hasn't found a place in ANY market. Why would this be different?

      • There's only two real markets for VR: games and CAD. Outside of those two, which can already be done on a flat display sitting on your desk, you need a connection to the outside world.

        All other markets, including some types of games and some types of CAD, will better be served by AR.

        For example, the architect designs a house in CAD on his desktop and the future owners can visit a single-level floor of their future house in AR while walking in a huge empty part of the building company's warehouse.

    • If you ask me, AR can't arrive fast enough! Cute virtual waifus in the real world?
      There's only one answer for that: Shut up and take my money!

    • My phone is still just a phone and my computer can do a shitload more than a smart phone can.

  • What could go wrong?

  • Then maybe Facebook should make a VR privacy policy that is as secure to your company as a private meeting room.

  • The desire to interact traditionally is understandable as it's based on emotion but remains foolish. Business interaction should be completely and precisely recorded which text serves superbly.

    As the command line is superior in precision to GUI click-and-drool, text communication with images is superior to watching shaved apes grunt and gesticulate. Text permits asynchronous precise communication over time while meeting waste time and divert workers in quest of synchronous personal emotional nonsens we shou

  • (almost) nobody wants this - there's really no upside.

  • What a coincidence! I want Facebook to get out of the VR business!

  • Just as realistic as expecting people to don the big funny glasses to go blah blah blah when you don't even need a video screen to engage in a mostly wasteful, fluff-filled meeting.

      I don't even like having my picture taken, and I'd rather be knuckling down and doing actual work than have to sit through a meeting.

  • Been there, done that, my boss didn't appreciated the goggles.

  • The thing that video-conferencing services suffer from is lack of eye-contact, i.e. you can't look each other in the eye, only the camera OR the person's face/eyes. it's one of the reasons why prolonged video-conferencing is so tiring, i.e. we're working really hard to try to interact with each other visually, as we would face to face, but in vain. Looking at this recent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] it looks like they still haven't solved this problem. If anything, it's worse; the avatars show t

  • Just saw an article about it. Note that the "people" in the "metaverse" meeting are cut off at the hip, and have no legs.

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