Global Regulators Back Tougher Rules To Prevent Criminals From Using Crypto (wsj.com) 79
Cryptocurrency firms could be forced to take greater steps to combat money laundering under new guidelines released on Thursday by the Financial Action Task Force, an international body that coordinates government policy on illicit finance. From a report: The task force called on governments to broaden regulatory oversight of crypto firms and force more of them to take measures such as checking the identities of their customers and reporting suspicious transactions to regulators. The FATF's guidelines don't have the force of law, and would need to be implemented by national regulators in each country. Still, the Paris-based group is influential in setting standards for government policies against money laundering and financing of terrorism, and its guidelines could shape new crypto regulations around the world. More than three dozen countries are FATF members, including the U.S., China and much of Europe.
Representatives of the crypto industry criticized the guidelines, saying they would undermine privacy, stifle innovation or simply not work in the context of blockchain and digital-asset technology. "It would be inappropriate for anything like these non-specific and confusing standards to replace the current law and regulations we have on the books here in the U.S.," Peter Van Valkenburgh, research director at crypto advocacy group Coin Center, wrote in a blog post on Thursday. Among the targets of the FATF's guidelines is decentralized finance, or DeFi for short. DeFi is an umbrella term for various efforts to implement traditional financial activities -- such as lending or trading -- using software rather than a central intermediary to oversee transactions. DeFi has grown rapidly since last year, with over $100 billion of assets posted as collateral in various DeFi projects, according to data provider DeBank. The guidelines take aim at DeFi projects such as decentralized exchanges, in which crypto traders can swap assets with each other, typically on an anonymous basis. The task force said the people or companies that own or operate such decentralized platforms could be considered virtual asset service providers, or VASPs, a designation that would force them to check users' identities and take other measures against money laundering.
Representatives of the crypto industry criticized the guidelines, saying they would undermine privacy, stifle innovation or simply not work in the context of blockchain and digital-asset technology. "It would be inappropriate for anything like these non-specific and confusing standards to replace the current law and regulations we have on the books here in the U.S.," Peter Van Valkenburgh, research director at crypto advocacy group Coin Center, wrote in a blog post on Thursday. Among the targets of the FATF's guidelines is decentralized finance, or DeFi for short. DeFi is an umbrella term for various efforts to implement traditional financial activities -- such as lending or trading -- using software rather than a central intermediary to oversee transactions. DeFi has grown rapidly since last year, with over $100 billion of assets posted as collateral in various DeFi projects, according to data provider DeBank. The guidelines take aim at DeFi projects such as decentralized exchanges, in which crypto traders can swap assets with each other, typically on an anonymous basis. The task force said the people or companies that own or operate such decentralized platforms could be considered virtual asset service providers, or VASPs, a designation that would force them to check users' identities and take other measures against money laundering.
Was bound to happen (Score:3)
You create a method of sending money that can't easily be traced of course you are going to become a favorite of people with dirty money, and of course you are going to become a target of the governments that try (I admit poorly sometimes) to stop it.
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You create a method of sending money that can't easily be traced of course you are going to become a favorite of people with dirty money, and of course you are going to become a target of the governments that try (I admit poorly sometimes) to stop it.
For bitcoin, every single transaction is traced and recorded. The privacy comes only if you can successfully hide your identity on the internet.
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Right, but can you practically track down the transactions? Ie, my mom often pays scammers indirectly via bitcoin. Can we prosecute? Not likely. It all goes through coinbase.com. Why? Because it is harder to track than a check or money transfer or even a gift card. Not impossible of course, but if they're only scamming out out of a few thousand dollars then you're never going to get a crack team of FBI and Interpol to track down where the money went.
Much easier to track (Score:1)
Right, but can you practically track down the transactions? Ie, my mom often pays scammers indirectly via bitcoin. Can we prosecute? Not likely.
Maybe you can't prosecute because the scammers are international, but yes in fact all of the transactions are super easy to track because they are all public.
The trick is to figure out who you are sending to. But don't forget the people who receive the transaction have to send that bitcoin elsewhere for products or to some place they can convert it to other currenc
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all of the transactions are super easy to track because they are all public.
Nope. You need to do some research on bitcoin mixers before you make claims like that.
Here's a starters guide on how they work [bitcoinmagazine.com].
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Nope. You need to do some research on bitcoin mixers
And you need to realize that almost certainly most mixers are either run by, or inflitrated by, many government agencies.
You just have no concept of how many resources governments have to track this stuff.
Not to mention that the most simplistic mixers being given an input of some money they sending out nearly the same amount of money to a different address shortly after (minus fees of course) - come on, you don't think that is eminently traceable? Please.
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What is interesting IMO is how long it has taken. Centralised "alternative finance" systems where quickly either shut down or subverted into the regular finance system but somehow the regulators seem to have been unable to deal with Cryptocurrency. Even in cases where a cryptocurrency (Tether for example) is pegged to the USD by a single entity they seem to have been unable to do anything much.
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Re: Was bound to happen (Score:2)
Re:"DeFi" = "Deregulated Finance" (Score:4, Insightful)
The crypto bros all want to wrestle control away from governments, and do it without any oversight, and hence no accountability.
As someone who does not have a ball in this game (crypto currencies), let me ask this question: Why should governments have control of our money?
To be fair, I am asking this tongue-in-cheek to an extent, but there is an element of seriousness to it. Why should the government be able to track and monitor all of our goddamn financial activities? I'm fairly tired of living my life under the government microscope. We've gotten to the point where we have to ask permission for EVERYTHING.
They fly overhead and monitor our property. Build an un-permitted shed and they come for you. Take "too much" money out of your bank account as cash and they come for you. Travel with too much money and they come for you. Don't get a particular shot (even if you had the actual virus) and they order you to be unemployed...
Where the fuck does it end?
so you want pay no tax and when you need the er ju (Score:2)
so you want pay no tax and when you need the er just show up and with an paper income of = zero don't have to pay for it?
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It's not a binary choice between "no government" and "Big Brother is watching you", you know?
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I'm going to sound like a crack-pot libertarian, but where does the government overreach end? Where I live, I have to get a city permit if I want to replace a bathroom faucet or replace a sink. It gets only worse. Will additional tracking with the $600 threshold actually catch money laundering, or will the people doing that just continue to use NFTs or offshore banks for their stuff? I see a lot more surveillance on the middle class and below, but that's not going to help much.
I'm seeing people start to
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China welcomes you, JBeretta-san!
Oh, that's a good one. That the level you operate on? Hrm? Someone asks a question and instantly you know where they stand? I'd be considered a libertarian, not a communist. You, on the other hand, haven't got the balls to post under your real account, eh?
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See the problem with that statement? You do have skin in the game jackass. It's the money part.
Why does government regulates money and finance - because "We the People" decided to do it that way. If you don't understand why, look it up.
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See the problem with that statement? You do have skin in the game jackass. It's the money part.
That's the second time, in as many responses, that you have resorted to name calling, you gutless fuck.
See my previous response you arrogant, and uneducated, prick.
Re: "DeFi" = "Deregulated Finance" (Score:2)
Aside From Gambling (Score:3, Insightful)
Prevent Criminals From Using Crypto? Then it will lose its main purpose.
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Central Banks and Banks are the main financial criminals;
What?
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Aside From Gambling Prevent Criminals From Using Crypto? Then it will lose its main purpose.
Why aside from gambling? Much of the gambling crypto traffic comes from regions of the world where gambling is illegal.
Why Crypto? (Score:2)
Seems like the only reason for using crypto is to try to avoid transaction accountability.
Set up so you can "mine" a little easily, nearly for free, and then participate in the crypto casino and make thousands !! (?).
So it's a pretty good con.
I don't deal in contraband transactions, and don't see the advantage. Maybe someone can enlighten me about benefits.
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It's not hyperbole when we've actually arrived at "forced medical procedures".
Or "forced unemployment" because why should people be responsible for their own actions?
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It's not hyperbole when we've actually arrived at "forced medical procedures".
Or "forced unemployment" because why should people be responsible for their own actions?
Not sure I'm following what you're saying. Are you implying that people who don't want the shot (or don't need it) should be unemployed if they and their employer are fine with not having a shot mandate?
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If you're whining about vaccination, you should realize that governments have been mandating vaccination for more than a century, so you're very, very late in complaining about it.
No they haven't. They mandated it for PUBLIC SCHOOLS, but there has always been the option to attend a private school.
Vaccines have NEVER been a condition of employment.
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They've mandated it for more than public schools. Some states had mandatory vaccination laws that required everyone to get vaccinated, and the US Supreme Court said that was fine [wikipedia.org].
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They've mandated it for more than public schools. Some states had mandatory vaccination laws that required everyone to get vaccinated, and the US Supreme Court said that was fine [wikipedia.org].
Okay. Then according to precedent, it's the States that have that power. This is not the domain of the Federal Government or the Biden administration. So why the fuck is he the one issuing the mandate?
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It has been in the healthcare industry. During various outbreaks and pandemics, nurses and doctors were required to get vaccinated.
I'll admit I don't know if that's true, but assuming it is, it was for one sector. Why the hell should it be mandated for.... say... Professional athletes in their prime? According to all of the science, that lefties love to quote, they are, possibly, the most unlikely of any age group (other than teenagers) to die. In that age and fitness category it's far more likely that someone will experience one of the rare, but present, vaccine side effects than have a really hard time with the infection.
Get the
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I'm seeing an awful lot of literature, lately, that seems to indicate that natural antibodies are more effective at preventing future infections than the vaccines.
And those same studies show infection + vaccination is even better again.
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I'm seeing an awful lot of literature, lately, that seems to indicate that natural antibodies are more effective at preventing future infections than the vaccines.
And those same studies show infection + vaccination is even better again.
Perhaps. But if the government is okay with antibody vaccines alone, then they damn well better be fine with natural antibodies alone.
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Re:Why Crypto? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want freedom, use cash. Ignore the twenty somethings who say you're an old fart who can't learn new tricks, just use cash instead of a credit card. If you're using bitcoin because you think it's giving you privacy, and you're one of the few doing this for legal purposes, then maybe you just need to think of better ways to keep your privacy?
We've had forced medical procedures (by which I assume you mean vaccinations) for decades now. It's not new. What's new is people pointing this one specific vaccineand claiming it's a hoax or is unproven or is stealing you freedoms. Your freedoms have always stopped at the point where they hurt someone else. The requirements to be vaccinated is a valid use of government power in order to proect the population. Now if you mean something else like forced sterilization, forced gender reassignment, forced kidney removal, or whatnot, then you really need to elucidate.
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"This lack of a state-backed insurance scheme for users is a serious fault, no doubt. We might dislike it, but the state is ultimately our only insurance policy against organised crime. However, this is not the greatest weakness of state-less currencies like Bitcoin. Their greatest and most dangerous weakness is that, because they are founded on the notion that no intervention in the money supply should be possible, lest this intervention is manipulate
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Withdrawing large sums of cash from the bank is a red flag. It will draw attention from regulators.
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If you want freedom, use cash.
Like so [nbcnews.com]?
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Yeah because people printing their own money is going to do wonders for consumption. Jackass.
I already have that legal right, Jackass. According to the Department of the Treasury, two parties can agree to use ANYTHING they want as currency. It is only a crime if I attempt to counterfeit US Legal tender. But it is absolutely legal for Disney to pay me in Disney Cash if we BOTH agree to it. Guess who prints Disney cash?
Smug little prick. You aren't as smart as you think you are.
By the way, the individual states ALSO have the legal right to print money as long as it's made of Gold or Silver (gra
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Pay for sex without the SO knowing about it? Yeah, I'm sure someone sees that as a benefit.
Some reasons you may have not considered (Score:2)
I don't deal in contraband transactions, and don't see the advantage. Maybe someone can enlighten me about benefits.
It can be difficult to see any obvious benefits if you have a bank account in a relatively free country using a reserve currency (like the USD). The story is different for people without bank accounts (due to lack of documentation, availability, or other reasons) or are living in a place that has an inflating currency, or under a regime that imposes strict capital controls. Crypto currency helps a lot with these:
- Remittances. Migrant workers (many of whom are unbanked) need a way to send money home. Cash i
"guidelines don't have the force of law" (Score:2)
End of story.
Yeah, but we'll allow ETFs for the thing (Score:2)
You know, just for the funsies.
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That it legitimizes a secondary market for cryptocurrencies - and, indirectly, fuels its usage.
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Crypto is law enforcement's dream (Score:1)
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All it takes is just one piece of data to associate a wallet with an individual... the way they pay for stuff, amounts, IP address, wallet app, and now that wallet is forever linked. To boot, the ledger is public, so $DEITY knows what organizations and companies are watching that. For example, some company can just sit ant watch the ledger, and if they see certain purchases from a wallet, they can call the local police and have someone arrested.
This isn't just a boon for the police, it is a boon for all t
People aren't wallets (Score:2)
If you can be associated with one transaction - then EVERY transaction you've ever made is instantly linked to you as well.
Wallets transact, not people. So on public blockchains, transactions to/from a particular wallet are known. But there isn't a limit to the number of wallets a person can have, and unlike a bank account, there is no documentation needed to create a wallet.
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If you can be associated with one transaction - then EVERY transaction you've ever made is instantly linked to you as well.
Note this is only half true: every transaction made from your wallet is instantly linked to you, but also you can have as many wallets as you want, a different one for each transaction.
Still, it's remarkably more traceable, permanent and public than cash.
Global Regulators don't care about crime! (Score:2)
also drugs (Score:2)
also drugs
Remember when the Pentagon lost 2.3 trillion? (Score:1)
Money Laundering (Score:2)
Money laundering money laundering money laundering
The selectively-enforced non-crime of choice that governments use to bamboozle their citizens.
Did you speed on your way to work? Your paycheck is the proceeds of a crime. Did you over-charge a client? Did you clock in but not really work the first hour? Money launderer!
Face it, take any given dollar in circulation, and you can trace it to a crime. Which is the point. I am a money launderer, you are a money launderer, we all scream for ice cream.
Ditto 'st
Why else have crypto? (Score:1)