Next Windows 11 Update Brings Back Clippy (arstechnica.com) 124
An anonymous reader shares a report: We're nearly two months out from the public release of Windows 11, and Microsoft is still slowly updating bits and pieces of the operating system that weren't quite ready in early October. Microsoft announced redesigned emoji back in July, and the next Windows update (version 22000.348, if you're tracking this sort of thing) adds those emoji to Windows 11. The new emoji remove the bold, black outlines from the Windows 10-era designs and change the colors and shapes of a few to make them match up better with Apple's, Google's, and Samsung's glyphs -- compare the new design for Spiral Shell to the old one, for an example. There are also a few cute Microsoft-specific touches, like a Clippy design for the paperclip emoji, though Ninja Cat appears to have been removed entirely.
NOOOOOOOO! (Score:5, Funny)
We were finally free of the scourge originally brought to us as a component of Microsoft BOB. We don't want or need it!
Hell, get rid of all of the changes to the Microsoft Office UI that only serve to make it harder to use.
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An army in your computer (Score:2)
Bob, Clippy, Search Dog, many new others, plus a space alien that only Clippy can see!
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That is the FP joke I was looking for. Mod parent Funny, please.
If I had time I'd write a thoughtful comment on the threat of AI. Perhaps cite Snow Crash (which I only finished yesterday)? Great book and I wish I'd read it years ago.
Re:NOOOOOOOO! (Score:5, Insightful)
Like the ribbon.
Half the time, I still can't find shit on "the ribbon".
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Yeah, there was a political fight within M$ over this POS change ... with the UI designers saying 'No' ... and losing out to the marketing faction.
Studies *after* the fact show the ribbon decreased productivity by ~30%
Seems like more and more groups are taking a page from the Roger Stone playbook: "Never admit you were wrong."
Re:NOOOOOOOO! (Score:5, Insightful)
I do kind of understand why the marketing faction pushed for a change, but that's mostly because for 99.9% of users, there's no real improvements to Microsoft Office after say, Office 2000. The last major change of relevance was some version in the noughties that greatly expanded the size that Excel sheets could be, which helped for those using it for scientific data analysis where there could be thousands of datapoints per second collected.
Trouble is that once enough people have a version of Office that does what they need, they now no longer have any incentive to upgrade. Microsoft's profits are based on selling the same software to the same users again and again, and if there's no changes under the hood, then changing the UI to look different might convince some users that they need to upgrade even when they don't.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Although mantaining two uis would certainly be more work, it wouldn't be that much, since the toolbars and menus are just ways to access the same functionality and dialogs that you can get to using the ribbon.
At least Office has an UI that's somewhat sane for mouse usage. Many apps nowadays have UIs designed for touchscreens and you have to put up with them even if you use them with
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That's what Softmaker does with their MS Word clone, Textmaker.
Pick menus, a ribbon, or both.
I use the Linux version for most of my at-home word processing and other stuff.
It's still not on par with MS Word, but it's pretty close (close enough for me, anyway).
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Trouble is that once enough people have a version of Office that does what they need, they now no longer have any incentive to upgrade. Microsoft's profits are based on selling the same software to the same users again and again, and if there's no changes under the hood, then changing the UI to look different might convince some users that they need to upgrade even when they don't.
Enter the subscription model of Office 365... why pay once, when you can pay forever?
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My productivity increased due to the ribbon. I don't use Word enough to learn all the menus and shortcuts. The groupings on the ribbon seemed more obvious to me, and because they visually represent what they are I find them faster to scan over than a list of menu items.
That is born out by studies that show humans process information that way much faster. Even when reading English the brain tends to only look at the shape of the word and the first and last characters.
Re:NOOOOOOOO! (Score:5, Insightful)
> Half the time, I still can't find shit on "the ribbon".
There is another reason why the ribbon bar is crap and why the menu bar is superior: Menu items STAY visible regardless of the window width. The menu items will just "wrap" onto the next line if they don't fit on the current one.
With the ribbon bar items disappearing because the width is too narrow "auto resizing" bullshit is one of the reasons the ribbon bar is shit.
e.g. On Win10 fire up Notepad and MSPaint. Now drag the window width to just be a tiny column. Notice how the menu items stay visible on Notepad but all menus and buttons disappear with Paint?
QED.
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I just tried, just for kicks.
The Paint ribbon starts displaying those left-right menu scrolling arrows when window width is less than 410 pixels.
Notepad itself can thin out to a "mere" 120 pixels width.
Niche scenario, but congrats for somehow turning it into a powerful argument against the infamous ribbon.
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If it's only half the time you have trouble finding stuff on the flouncy-bouncy-ribbon thing, you're doing well. It seems MS's favourite UX paradigm is a good fun game of hide and seek.
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But I can't remove M$ "ribbon" with my teeth!
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Half the time, I still can't find shit on "the ribbon".
"The ribbon" comes with a search bar.
You're welcome.
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If your UI is so shitty that people need a search bar to find stuff, then it really is shitty.
So you believe that any interaction involving a search bar is shitty, regardless of volume and complexity of contents? I hope you don't use Google to navigate the internet, then.
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Why don't you want to wear the reebon?
I'm wearing wearing the ribbon.
He's wearing the ribbon. We are all wearing the ribbon! So why aren't *you* going to wear the ribbon?
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Half the time, I still can't find shit on "the ribbon".
Very much like the people who can't figure out how to start a service because of systemd. At some point you'll realise you need to RTFM. Sit down one day and just actively look, like really look at what is on the ribbon.
Easy. Done. 5min of work will save you lots of frustration. All the options are there, with bigger text, bigger icons so you don't even need your glasses.
Imagine all the future time you'll save by knowing how to use your software, and not having to bitch about it on Slashdot.
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Last time I checked, Lennart Poettering didn't believe in writing TFM.
Documentation on Pulseaudio, and later on systemd, far, far lagged behind the introduction of the software.
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Don't give em ideas
Next update the start menu turns into microsoft bob
Re: NOOOOOOOO! (Score:2)
Microsoft reincarnated clippy and called it Cortana. It then ruthlessly annoyed you while you install windows.
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that only serve to make it harder to use.
According to whom? Old people who swear by throwing everything into shitty text menus and tiny icons? No I'm serious here, do a large scale survey sometime. I think you'll find the only people who think of it being harder are "experts", in the meantime the software is far more accessible to the unwashed masses. This is Office we're talking about. IT powerusers are not at all the target market.
It's not the same... (Score:4, Funny)
If he's not constantly popping up to annoy you with simple questions, what's the point?
No worries. (Score:2)
They're already working on a new AI assistant, because that's what everyone wants. Right?
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Looking forward to the re-appearance of the "Kill Clippy" add-on...
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...if Clippy is just a static emoji.
If he's not constantly popping up to annoy you with simple questions, what's the point?
Just wait until Slashdot supports unicode and emojis. Then you'll see the point in the replies:
U+1F4CE - "It looks like your post wasn't well thought through. Would you like help?"
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Just wait until Slashdot supports unicode and emojis.
None of us will live that long.
It looks like you're trying (Score:2)
To throw your computer out of the window. Would you like some help with that?
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What little I remember of the original Clippy was that I turned it off as fast as I could. And since 2002 or so, I have used Linux as the only OS on my "productivity" computers. Any time I sit down with a friends computer with Windows, I feel my productivity declines by orders of magnitude.
Re:It looks like you're trying (Score:5, Funny)
A BMW driver, a Linux user and guy who doesn't own a TV walk into a bar.
How can you tell?
They keep telling you.
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The most useless job in the world: The guy who installs turn signals on BMWs
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I must be old. Back in my day, there were no stinkin' vegans.
Now get off my lawn!
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A rapist, a narcissist, and pathological liar walk into a bar.
The bartender says, "Hi Mr Trump, what can I get you?"
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Now I know why I was not outed on all 3 counts: I don't like bars.
Now its 4 counts....
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No, I don't want to throw my computer out of the window, I want to throw Windows out of my computer.
Comment (Score:2)
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Yes.
Microsoft won't do that. If they wanted to fix things, they would not have released 11.
Re: Comment (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoftâ(TM)s problem with Windows is the same as Appleâ(TM)s problem with MacOS: once youâ(TM)ve implemented all the good ideas, and implemented all the mediocre ideas, but marketing still wants âoesomething newâ in order to move product, all youâ(TM)ve got left to implement is the bad ideas.
Okay, yeah, you can fix bugs and improve performance, but marketing canâ(TM)t make very many ads about that.
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You're implying that no new ideas are good. I think a lot of people's opinions are quite the opposite. Windows and MacOS has great ideas in every release. They are just buried in a pile of shit forced on by marketing, and the modern outrage newscycle is such that all we ever talk about are the shit parts. Forget screen quadrant snapping, or improved screenshotting, look over here where we serve you ads and pointless widgets and force you to use a Microsoft account!
Occasionally we do discuss useful features
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You're implying that no new ideas are good.
Not at all. But I am implying that once you've picked all the low-hanging fruit, what remains is less likely to be a big improvement over what users already have. It's just the usual principle of diminishing returns; same reason why movie and book sequels in a series tend to get worse as they make more of them. There's only so much a desktop OS can usefully do, and if you're driven to continually add more stuff to it, eventually you're adding mostly marginal corner-case dreck that complicates everything
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Not at all. But I am implying that once you've picked all the low-hanging fruit, what remains is less likely to be a big improvement over what users already have.
Yes but what I'm saying is there is plenty of low hanging fruit left. It's just not actively discussed. I am not being funny when I say that quadrant snapping is the single best thing to come the desktop since virtual desktops (enabled of course by ultra large 4K displays), and that feature is new.
I take it you've not used a tablet, touch input or pen input device on Windows 7? If you compared that to Windows 10 (even without any tablet mode or other such laughably garbage interface) with it's input context
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Okay, yeah, you can fix bugs and improve performance, but marketing canâ(TM)t make very many ads about that.
Being an Old Fart, when I took marketing, it was 3P marketing, so Marketing didn't worry about Promotion, they only worried about getting the Product people want, at a Price they were willing to pay, at the Place they wanted to buy it from. With that view point Marketing brings good ideas to Engineering and the advertising is almost unnecessary.
The usual "Windows feature" question (Score:2)
Can you turn it off, and if, how?
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Frankly, I didn't read the article, or even the summary. All I saw is "windows feature" and the pavlov reflex set in.
What. The. Fuck. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously? These are important updates? Fucking emoji?
What site am I reading again? This is not news for nerds. This is news for twelve year old girls. The fact Microsoft is even talking about this type of shit is a sure sign that they've lost the thread.
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Think people actually care about the workings? Nope. Want the newest flashy thing. Even if its just a redesign of something old.
Microsoft wants nothing more than to turn your PC into a Phone.
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According to Microsoft market research,
Well, THERE's your problem.
The Market Research department of Microsoft, who'll be first against the wall, when the revolution comes.
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Right beside the Politicians and Lawyers I presume ...
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Don't forget their need to mine every byte of data from YOUR machine and "monitize" it.. Fuck Microsoft.. Been 100% Linux for the last 11 years...
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Seriously? These are important updates? Fucking emoji?
Welcome to what has qualified as a major "feature" on Apple updates for years now.
They didn't actually bring back clippy. (Score:2)
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This is not news for nerds.
This story has the third highest engagement on the front page currently, so you're objectively wrong.
Re:What. The. Fuck. (Score:4, Interesting)
Or, this place is no longer populated by nerds. Or anger is a righteous motivator.
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Or, this place is no longer populated by nerds. Or anger is a righteous motivator.
In either case it's hard to argue that Slashdot isn't giving its audience what it wants. Maybe you should start your own news for nerds, with blackjack, and hookers. I know just the site you are interested in: https://soylentnews.org/ [soylentnews.org] but don't go there for the comments, because as it turns out news for nerds is only interesting to ~20 people tops.
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MS hasn't changed. What's new? Apple and others too. Wait, Linux does this too. :(
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The look is immutable? (Score:1)
Pardon me if my ignorance of how Microsoft Windows is showing, but is the look of the Windows desktop actually immutable?
I can make my (Mate, formerly Gnome) desktop look like anything I want it to and use any colour scheme or icon set that I choose (or assign individual icons).
My Android phone doesn't allow me to do much with its look other than set the wallpaper and arrange icons the order of the icons on the screen.
Is Microsoft Windows like that? No desktop configuration allowed?
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Been awhile since I've used Gnome or KDE, but pretty sure Windows doesn't allow for the same level of customization as those desktops., but you can adjust quite a bit in Windows desktop, color schemes, etc. Most people don't.
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you can change highlight colors and set dark or light, but it doesnt really matter, we are actually doing work on our computers and not spending time making our computers work
I mean its cute you can make your toolbar neon yellow and turn all your controls into icons of dildo's so it matches your anime wallpaper, but when you actually do work on a computer you really don't care that much as long as you can get the task done in a timely manner
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explorer.exe (the WIndows UI) used to be customizable. Microsoft started discontinuing the configurability of the UI with Windows 2000. By Windows 7 most (meaningful) configurability had been destroyed. Now you can have you Windows any way you want, so long as that corresponds with the limited intellect of the Head Indian in Charge. As of the introduction of Windows 8.1 all customization was removed. Any that managed to escape being removed is being hunted down and killed.
Since Windows 2002 there has a
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I can make my (Mate, formerly Gnome) desktop look like anything I want it to and use any colour scheme or icon set that I choose (or assign individual icons).
Can you get the browser to respect those options? I use Mate with the TraditionalOK theme because I like wider scroll bars with arrows on the ends (along with something that's not light grey on slightly darker grey). However none of the common browsers seem to respect the system theme so I'm stuck with thin light grey on slightly lighter grey tiny scrollbars that have no arrows.
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I can make my (Mate, formerly Gnome) desktop look like anything I want it to and use any colour scheme or icon set that I choose (or assign individual icons).
The customization options for Windows (and MacOS) are limited in comparison to some of the Linux DWMs but of course they themselves are limited in their own ways which is why there are so many of them, you can't make Gnome look and behave the same as KDE or the macOS shell for example. You can install an alternative shell for Windows if you want, there aren't many of them that exist these days because it's more of a solution looking for a problem. I don't really care about the OS, I care about the applicati
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Sadly, after more than a decade of discussion, Nemo still won't retain column widths.
Other than that, I have no complaints using Linux.
Since windows 11 is perfect (Score:2)
They are finally able to spend the necessary time to fix those little things. /s
Clippy Porn (Score:2)
That's it. That's my entire comment.
It's like at the end of the Third Wave movie (Score:2)
When the national level leader of the movement is revealed.
it looks like you are trying to install linux do y (Score:2)
it looks like you are trying to install linux do you want me to show you an list of apps and games that are not in Linux?
Everybody trying hard to immanentize the eschaton (Score:2)
Looks like it's going to be hell on earth, not heaven.
Whaaat (Score:2)
Office Clippy had problems, but I miss the Agent t (Score:2)
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You cannot turn it off.
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Instead of say "Hey Cortana", I want to say "Mortal Kombat" and have a Clippy v. Bob Jedi/Sith death-match begin to provide the best response, when I choose the winner, the loser bursts into flames.
Instead of making UI devs justify their existence (Score:2)
It looks like you're building a Metaverse! (Score:2)
Hey, wasn't BOB the evil entity in Twin Peaks? Maybe the Metaverse will be like living in a David Lynch movie!
Through the darkness of Windows 12
The Magician longs to see
Once chance (chants?) out between two worlds
Microsoft, Walk With Me
Wow (Score:3)
An OS must be really important when one of the most exciting things about it is the included emoji set.
Sadly, I'll never know as all my Windows 10 systems are too old to meet the Windows 11 "requirements". When Win10 support expires, I'll just finally make the switch to using my Linux systems full time.
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My computer updated from Win10 to Win11 without issues, the graphics just look better, some right-click things joe-average doesn't use got moved to "More Options". So far it's been more like installing a new desktop theme in KDE, than a major OS upgrade, but I'm not a power-user in windows so YMMV.
We upgraded to "cloud-based" software through the chrome browser at work so now it's OS indifferent, I'm starting to wonder if MS stranglehold on the desktop is over.
It will be the bastard son (Score:1)
clipeyes (Score:2)
Microsoft should make clipeyes... think xeyes plus a paperclip. It would be epic.
And nothing of value was ... (Score:1)
... lost^H^H^H^Hgained.
Can you set your own broswer yet?? (Score:2)
His Spirit Never Died (Score:3)
In addition to all of those annoying suggestions, Windows is constantly popping notifications for things that it did in the background that no one cares about. It's like an insecure child that is constantly seeking your approval by giving you an exaggerated list of all of the things it's done in the hopes that maybe you'll finally love it.
With all of these suggestions and notifications constantly distracting the user, I don't understand how anyone using Windows ever accomplishes any actual work.
Hooray (Score:2)
./ starts April 1st earlier and earlier each year.
Dad ... (Score:2)
"It's something we used to use back in the old days to press the reset button on electronic devices."
Make Windows great again? (Score:2)
Ninja Cat (Score:2)
A pox upon them (Score:2)
A pox upon Clippy and the socially dysfunctional PM who gave life to that thing.
OS releases be like meh... (Score:2)
Clearly we've reached a point where the majority of OS releases are equivalent to new mobile phone releases - the only news worth selling, is "eye candy", rather than functionality.
Journalists discuss at length, about the only things they can discuss - color schemes, icons, emojis - as the rest is either "filler" or dull as ditch water.
Hell, macOS have perfected the marketing of such fluff. Take a look at Monterey, as an example. 90% of the "new" features are gimmicks aimed at a specific demographic - socia
So this is what Microsoft engineers (Score:2)
Clippy ?!?!?! (Score:2)
Why, MS? (Score:2)
Who cares? (Score:2)
Is there any reason at all to switch to win 11? I don't see any. Win 10 is already pretty bad. Why get something that is even worse.
Flags? (Score:2)
Have they finally decided to add flag emojis? Those might actually be useful if they weren't missing from Windows 10.
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Probably harks back to text-only displays that reserved the last line for commands not content.