Microsoft's New Windows Prompts Try To Stop People Downloading Chrome (theverge.com) 224
Microsoft has never been a fan of Windows users downloading Chrome instead of using Edge, but the company has now stepped up its campaign to keep people using its built-in browser. From a report: Windows 10 and Windows 11 have both started displaying new prompts when people navigate to the Chrome download page, in an effort to discourage people from installing Google's rival browser. These new prompts, spotted by Neowin, include messages like:
"Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft."
"That browser is so 2008! Do you know what's new? Microsoft Edge."
"'I hate saving money,' said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping."
"Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft."
"That browser is so 2008! Do you know what's new? Microsoft Edge."
"'I hate saving money,' said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping."
Easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't use Windows. I gave up on that crap software 3 years ago.
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Re: Easy solution (Score:4, Funny)
#324f2a38bc
That looks like a hex code that you might be able to look up on the web. It's still better than shit like "oops the webz broke" which tells you absolutely nothing about the problem and gives you nothing to go by to fix it.
Re:Easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)
AND, don't forget, stealing your data, and hiding behind a 1000 page EULA that NOBODY reads. But if you DO read it, you'd run screaming.. A friend of mine who is a lawyer, read the whole thing and his comment after finishing? RUN.. RUN FAST.. ANYTHING BESIDES WINDOWS.. His law office is now on Linux with ONE system on a heavily castrated Windows for things that Linux/Wine doesn't do well.
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And how much commercial software does this lawyer friend of yours use?
Has he/she read the EULA for each of those as well?
I'm sure if a lawyer were to fully read most of the EULA out there there would be reasons for them to conclude "RUN.. RUN FAST.. ANYTHING BESIDES..."
Re:Easy solution (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Easy solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Did your lawyer friend happen to mention exactly what spooked him? Would be interesting to know the specific issues because presumably all law firms are affected.
FWIW the EULA is here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]
It's not quite 1000 pages, but it is around 5,800 words and judged by various online tools to require college level education to fully understand.
I'm wondering if there might be a GDPR complaint in here. I can't really make one because the UK regulator is useless and we are out of the EU now, but on the face of it I'd say that the telemetry stuff fails to meet the "informed consent" standard because it's unintelligible and not specific enough.
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So you switched it from a mechanical (ball) mouse to an optical mouse? :-)
Re:Easy solution (Score:5, Informative)
One of the boiler plate clauses is "we can change the terms and conditions", my question is how can that be a contract? My understanding of contract law is there must be a meeting of minds, that is both parties must understand what they are getting into. If the contract basically says one party can do what they want, then why doesn't that void the contract?
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I stopped using Windows with Windows 3.11, I had used Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, back to Linux with some stints with Free and OpenBSD. For the past Decade I had mostly been on Windows ( I do tinker around with the new Linux distros to keep up from time to time )
It isn't due to any sort of Love for Microsoft, or my inability to do what I do in Linux. But just due to the fact Microsoft has been offering free as in no extra money from me upgrades for a while, Windows has been running very stable for a while
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Absolutely. Once Microsoft got their act together and fixed the issues with six updates (yes, that is both snarky and serious). Never had a problem with 2K. It just worked and allowed one to work without getting in the way.
I recently converted to Mint and have no issues with it so can't see myself going back to Windows except while I'm at work.
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I miss the days where we saw Google as the shining knight. If I could do things over, I'd have stuck with Firefox. Phone-wise, I'd probably have gone Apple. As it is, I'm pretty tied in to the Google infrastructure.
I realized how integrated it all is yesterday when I cleared my passwords in Chrome on a laptop I was turning back into work, and it deleted my passwords from my google account. My fault for not reading better but it never occurred to me that the browser even had that kind of access to my go
Edge will suck the chrome off your trailer hitch (Score:3)
Kafka said you become what you hate. Once google went fully corporate its fiduciary responsibility to shareholders made it no different than Microsoft in the Evil department. It's bussiness model is based on the internet fact same embrace and extend model that made Microsoft so loathsome. It's lock-in on chrome books is more complete than even Apple. You can barely search the web or visit sites without some big pipe back to the google plexus via the amp, via the google metrics, via google devices, servic
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Yep. There are several sites that I can't use Chrome on from my phone since it bypasses my DNS add filters. I'm sure there is a way around that but the fact is that the default is to bypass what I have set up.
Re: "with the added trust of Microsoft" (Score:3)
I guess "Google account", in singular, is the problem. The account you logged in as, on your phone, can be an independent isolated account having nothing to do with any other aspect of your computing life. And you can have another one for email.
The account used for email need not be an "account" in Android. By using regular IMAP email clients, instead of the Gmail application on Android, we can even check emails of that account on an Android phone.
Re:Easy solution (Score:4, Funny)
Ah, an Apple user. I recognize the personality anywhere.
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Don't use Windows. I gave up on that crap software 3 years ago.
If it wasn't for Windows being the better desktop platform for games, we could easily consider the other platforms.
For software development and deployment I am happy to keep to my Mac desktop + Linux server combo. Apple has their walled garden on their 'i' devices, but the desktop is still open.
Re:Easy solution (Score:5, Interesting)
You may be amazed at how many games on Steam run on Linux natively, no wine installation required. I'm sure if you wanted the latest AAA game, then you would still be stuck on a console or Windows, but there is a LOT of great games you can buy from Steam that work on Windows flawlessly.
I've been dabbling with Linux since the mid 90s but since I was addicted to gaming on Windows, it was nearly impossible to switch outside of dual booting. I hate to admit it but it wasn't until they EOLed Win7 that I decided I was done.
Ironically, what really forced me over the edge in a fit of anger was MS itself. I had downloaded the latest updates but wasn't ready to restart the computer to apply them. I then decided to use the built in disk clean up tools to try and free up some space. Apparently, the updates were flagged as temporary and unneeded. Windows deletes these updates as part of this effort.
I restart the computer later and the next time it goes to boot, gets stuck permanently at just before the login screen. Decided instead of wasting time rebuilding my Windows environment I would just shift over to Linux.
Definitely made easier by the fact that I don't play brand new games anymore. Then I realized just how many options were on Steam and never looked back.
Also it was made easier by the fact that I already ran the Mozilla suite and open office. Using applications that run on multiply platforms definitely makes the platform less important.
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My fit of rage moment came around 2001 when I kept receiving threatening letters stating the Microsoft was giving all users who had pirated their software time to legally purchase licenses before coming and suing them. I was legal with my copy of Windows NT Server 4.0 and SQL server for my business as well as my workstations and MS Office, but the letters kept annoying the shit out of me. So I decided to convert my desktop and server to Linux (tried many flavors over the years) and have ran free software
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As soon as someone ports a real CAD package I'll switch.
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Out of [genuine] curiosity, what's missing from available options? Or would the list of what's not missing be shorter?
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Frankly, it's just such a clunky mess these days. Apart from all the nags all the time and the fact that if you turn the fucking off for a week, you come back and there 20 updates that need to be applied, it's just become terrible. The UI workflow is bad.
I actually pine for the days of Windows 2000. That was peak Windows. A clean and simple UI, very responsive and predictable. I've abandoned Windows for personal use. I have a Mac and I use a Pi as a test bed server. I have an old dual quad-core Dell Xeon se
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Don't use Windows. I gave up on that crap software 3 years ago.
Even easier solution: Just ignore it. It takes literally 1 second to ignore the prompt. If I had to add up all the prompts or things to ignore over the past decade from Windows it would still collectively be less time than it takes to install a Linux distro, let alone get proficient at it, find alternatives for all software etc.
Your "easy solution" is actually incredibly time consuming and onerous. Good on you (and me, I also run Linux on several desktops), but most people have better things to do.
What about firefox? (Score:3)
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Chrome has a severe problem in that it's being pushed on unsuspecting people and installed too easily. I often have to uninstall Chrome from my mom's computer, because a lot of products are "bundled" with Chrome and when you're accustomed to click "yes" whenever there's a popup, Chrome is installed. Antivirus packages do this, IT and malware scammers use Chrome. Just having a popup that says "are you sure you want this, it's not your default browser?" would be helpful.
I don't think Chrome is a bad browse
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I should add that I've seen Chrome installed by default with anti-malware, so that you have to know how to opt out of it with a tiny checkbox that's easy to overlook. And I have overlooked this myself in the past.
HAHAHA (Score:5, Funny)
"Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft."
Holy shit! Is it April already?
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My thoughts exactly. The second laugh of the morning, right after Calvin and Hobbes.
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Re:HAHAHA (Score:4, Funny)
I hear the word "trust" and "Microsoft" in the same sentence and I fall on the floor laughing my ass off..
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Of course, I exclusively use Firefox and Safari because I think a binary from Google about the same as a binary from an arbitrary place on the web . . .
The other two points, well, at least that is a VERY traditional "on message" for Microsoft . . so, congratz on consistency?
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It's a typo. Bend over.
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And don't forget, the other prompt that points out how old and outdated Chrome, and therefore Edge, is.
"Chrome sucks, as we suck just like it."
Saving money (Score:5, Insightful)
"'I hate saving money,' said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping."
Edge is a browser that comes bundled with a $100+ operating system.
So.... what's the best way to save money?
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Edge is free for Linux and Mac.
I'd love to know how many Linux users they have.
Re: Saving money (Score:2)
Edge is available on Linux, too.
Re: Saving money (Score:3)
with the added trust of Microsoft (Score:5, Informative)
"with the added trust of Microsoft"
*chuckle*
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I don't want either (Score:5, Informative)
Edge is no doubt full of security holes and chrome is a virus that infiltrates its way into the OS and insists - on linux anyway - with having part of it run with root privs. Feck that. I'll stick with Firefox even though it seems to be a minority browser now.
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and chrome is a virus that infiltrates its way into the OS and insists - on linux anyway - with having part of it run with root privs.
I'm no fan of Chrome or Google but I have to use Chrome at work (at least for certain things) on my Linux machine. I have Chrome running right now and just checked, I don't see any chrome processes running as root. Source?
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Look for the browser parent process , its probably got sandbox in its name somewhere.
Re:I don't want either (Score:5, Informative)
Just verified that at least at a glance, you won't see root owned processes normally.
However, it does have a setuid root application: /opt/google/chrome/chrome-sandbox /opt/google/chrome/chrome-sandbox
$ ls -lh
-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 204K Nov 10 21:37
I replaced that binary with something to let me know if it is called, and at least in my install, I didn't see it called in a quick test. It may be that it is used if an older kernel is in play and it has to resort to setuid to get access to features it wants to employ to sandbox the browser. It may be that I didn't perform any action that would undice it.
So the short of it is that yes, google has a setuid root binary installed but it *might* not use it when paired with a newer kernel. There is at least a plausible justification for it (e.g. users weren't allowed to do things like 'chroot' before, but with modern kernels you can, so long as you unshare user namespace first).
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To follow up:
https://chromium.googlesource.... [googlesource.com]
Looks like if you are running at least kernel 3.10, chrome won't use the setuid anymore. However it does leave the setuid binary there as a matter of how they package.
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Do you have a reference for this claim that Chrome needs root privs to run on Linux? I couldn't find anything except some very old posts from 2009 about it needing root to install, but not to run. The current state seems to be that it installs entirely in /opt/google/chrome and does not require elevated privileges to run, but correct me if I'm wrong.
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It uses (or did, maybe things have changed) a sandbox process that requires root privs.
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If your kernel is older than 3.10, then it will need root to run:
https://chromium.googlesource.... [googlesource.com]
The same developments that enabled users to do user namespaces and pretend to be root also enabled Chrome to skip root for their sandbox if the kernel is new enough.
However, it will still have: /opt/google/chrome/chrome-sandbox /opt/google/chrome/chrome-sandbox
$ ls -lh
-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 204K Nov 10 21:37
Even if no longer used. It's probably time for them to remove the setuid sandbox, since supporting kerne
Trying too hard (Score:2)
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If they're not careful.... (Score:2)
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Unlike Apple, who doesn't even let you install alternate browsers on your iOS device.
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Unsurprised (Score:2)
Windows 10+ is essentially malware, by any commonly used definition prior to its own release.
Chrome is also malware by most reasonable definitions. (Being careful to distinguish Chrome from Chromium)
We have notoriously bad actors; treating each other unsurprisingly badly. I say its a big who cares
Re: Unsurprised (Score:2)
I don't think Chrome qualifies because it doesn't use surreptitious means to get you to install it. If software zips up my HDD and sends it to a website, it's only malware if that's not its purported use or if it is doing it without my knowledge.
Hmmm (Score:2)
"Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome, with the added trust of Microsoft."
So with no added benefit then
"That browser is so 2008! Do you know what's new? Microsoft Edge."
If your browser is based on the same tech as Chrome, its just as 2008 as Chrome is.
"'I hate saving money,' said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping."
If you are corp fishing for users, yes. Not so much for me.
No way (Score:2)
The usual "MS Feature" question (Score:3)
Can I turn it off, and if, how?
(I feel like I post that exact message now every day, could we please get it as part of TFS, I can't believe I'm the only one where this question pops up like a reflex every time MS announces some new "feature")
Re:Can I turn it off? (Score:2)
For the moment you can but just wait for the next [cough][cough] update from MS. This will probably be blocked so do it while you can but remember you WILL do as Nanny Microsoft tells you.
you have been assimilated into the MS Borg.
Brilliant strategy (Score:2)
I see a lawsuit brewing. Not that Google has clean hands, but this sort of thing draws the ire of regulators and monopolies commissions.
"Added Trust"? (Score:3)
I supposed technically you can add a negative.
Let me Translate (Score:2)
Our engine sucked so we used Googles', but we want out spyware on top if it - so pick our browser!
Seems the more things change.. (Score:2)
The more things change, the more they remain the same. I'm old enough to remember arguments of "better experience", "improved security" when MS tied IE to Windows. That lead to a lawsuit, a judgment an overturn on appeal, and a mess. Just don't use Windows is the only remedy [wikipedia.org]
About things that no one ever said (Score:2)
On the one hand... (Score:3)
Hand 1: Chrome is a slimy little bastard full of Google tracking tech
Hand 2: This just smacks of Microsoft circa late 1990s
Hand 3: Edge is built on Chromium, presumably just replacing Google tracking tech with Microsoft tracking tech
Hand 4: At least Firefox and Vivaldi are still around
How the hell is this not blatant anti-trust. (Score:2)
Where are the regulators (Score:2)
Years ago Microsoft got slammed for this kind of anti competitive behavior? One huge problem today is too many lobbyists that talk congress, lawmakers and regulators into giving tech a pass.
Re: Where are the regulators (Score:2)
I wonder if MSFT is testing the waters. Their monopoly status is far less clear today than it was during their antitrust escapades. I've never seen a Windows machine at my office, and we've never had contractors who had any issues working in our Mac-centric development environment. A few of us use Linux, but Windows is kind of a non-starter.
All They Have To Do Is Sit And Wait (Score:5, Interesting)
There are plenty of people who feel Google is creepy, slow, bloated, and so forth. While Firefox remains an alternative, having Edge as an option as well is probably a good thing. At its core, Edge isn't a bad browser.
The problem is that Microsoft doesn't seem content with people discovering this on their own, by merit of just being a good browser. When I start Edge for the first time, can I type in a URL? No. I have to answer 20 questions first. Can I just browse normally? No, it forces me to create a profile. It has a bunch of other nags that need to be disabled so that my browsing isn't interrupted by my browser. And it still does the annoying thing where it requires me to specify "http://" before an IP address, lest it assume I'm trying to do a bing search for 192.168.1.1. Oh, and any time there's something "new" they want to tell me, it creates a new tab halfway through my typing the website into the address bar and stealing focus.
The "aggressive browser" market is already cornered with Chrome. Let Edge serve the user, and the market share will grow naturally as people see it as being principally different than IE6. however, Microsoft isn't content with this growth strategy. Instead, they try to shove it down everyone's throat, at a level they'd cry foul over if Google pulled this crap on Android for users who install Edge on their phone, or if Apple pulled this crap on OSX for Mac users.
And thus, Microsoft makes the browser so obnoxious, that the reasons to dislike it don't have to be a matter of "standards compliance" or "being annoying to code for" that made IE6 loathed by web designers. The more of these reasons they add, the less undesirable it is to just use Chrome.
I disliked Steve Ballmer and his chair throwing antics...but the Balmer era of Microsoft didn't seem hellbent on annoying its users.
Re: All They Have To Do Is Sit And Wait (Score:2)
Q.v. VHS vs Betamax for why you shouldn't just rely on the quality of your product to compete. Ecosystems matter.
with the added trust of Microsoft (Score:2)
My elders would have taken this right to court (Score:2)
My elders would have taken this right to court. The fools who run the government now have no teeth and the company is doing things they never dreamed of in the first place.
Microsoft Should Focus on the Default User Market (Score:3)
They're not going to convince knowledgeable Firefox or Chrome users that Edge is better. Just stop. It looks desperate.
All Microsoft needs to do is rebrand Edge. First, change the name. Internet Explorer was a GREAT name for Default users. They saw the word "Internet", thinking "that's where I want to be" and then they see "Explorer" and think "I want to explore!".
"Edge" is just way to abstract. It says nothing to the Default user and there are not good connotations with the term-- On edge... looking over the edge... the edge of a knife... The Edge from U2.
And then there's the icon-- a breaking wave. They should have kept the Internet Explorer "e" so that Default users would just gravitate to the blue "e" they knew that could get them to their email.
Edge should be the ultra-reliable, super-safe browser you can tell your granny to use without having to worry about installing plug-ins.
All of this ... (Score:3)
Makes me love lynx even more.
--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re:What? (Score:4, Insightful)
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This:
https://www.bing.com/stores/ed... [bing.com]
Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Holy crap!
They have managed to conflate a browser with a shopping site, delivered it at a search engine site, and embed prompts for it in an operating system.
My imagination is not vivid enough to see how they could make this any weirder.
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not allowing all that crap to run on 5yr old hardw ... oh wait!
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"They have managed to conflate a browser with a shopping site"
So do a healthy whack of their their users.
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Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
What does saving money have to do with anything? Chrome's free.
My guess is it's a way (and a rather dishonest one at that) to push/advertise this feature: Microsoft Adds Buy Now, Pay Later Financing Option To Edge -- And Everyone Hates It [slashdot.org]
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If you don't mind handing over your life to Google it's free.
Re:Microsoft needs a better CEO. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's actually quite well managed, but Windows is beyond "legacy" at this point. I don't think they care anymore. They're making their money with services, primarily running Linux.
Re:Microsoft needs a better CEO. (Score:5, Insightful)
The goal of 10 was to cement that you are no longer the customer you are the product. This is more of the same. Welcome back to the 90s.
Re:Microsoft needs a better CEO. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, the dream of the 90s is alive in Microsoft. Remember the 90's when they'd encourage you to be weird? It was just an amazing time where people would go to see something like the Jim Rose sideshow circus and watch someone hang something from their penis? You could grow up to want to be a clown. People went to clown school! Y'know. People were talking about getting piercings and getting tribal tattoos. And people were singing about saving the planet; forming bands? Remember when people were content to be unambitious? Sleep to eleven? Just hangout with their friends? You'd have no occupations whatsoever. Maybe you work a couple of hours a week at a coffee shop?
Ah, the dream of the 90s. Where are you now? Not Portland, that's for sure.
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Portland is a city where young people go to retire.
That sounds pretty nice actually.
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So are they making Portland cement?
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Re:All the browsers do this kind of thing (Score:5, Interesting)
All the browsers do this kind of thing [...] Every time I log into my GMail account using Edge, Google prompts me to switch to Chrome.
Those two things are not comparable. One of those is the site you're visiting suggesting using another browser for the best experience*, the other is the browser itself suggesting you not download the thing you went to download.
* I used to use Chrome for google sites including gmail, and Firefox for everything else, but at some point gmail actually became slower on Chrome so I went back to using Firefox for all that stuff and never using Chrome unless I needed it to run a chrome local web app. Maybe gmail works better in Chrome again now, I dunno since it's still working fine in FF.
Re:All the browsers do this kind of thing (Score:5, Insightful)
That is something that should have gone away in the '90s.
Web sites should follow W3C standards and shut the f*** up. We have standards for a reason.
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Web sites should follow W3C standards
As far as I can tell, gmail does that. It works correctly in Firefox anyway.
and shut the f*** up.
Web sites should shut up? That's the opposite of what they are for.
We have standards for a reason.
It appears to me that Google is following them. What's the problem?
Re: All the browsers do this kind of thing (Score:2)
Web sites should shut up? That's the opposite of what they are for.
Speak only when spoken to. Is that better?
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If it follows the standards, then it shouldn't be able to say "works better with our browser" as that would be false advertising.
Re: All the browsers do this kind of thing (Score:2)
If it's using new WHAT-WG standards only supported in Chrome-based browsers, then there might be features that don't work or are using a fallback on Gecko-based browsers.
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What's the problem?
Claiming their standards compliant website will function better on THEIR standards compliant browser than it will on the competitor's compliant browser is dishonest.
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AMP is not a web standard.
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One is an operating system trying to make you install an application by the same manufacturer by intercepting specific downloads with misleading text.
The other is a company recommending you other products of their own.
It's a subtle difference, but monopoly adjudicators can explain it to you in great detail if you like.