Microsoft Backtracks on Windows 11's Controversial Default Browser Changes (theverge.com) 39
Microsoft is backtracking on changes it made to Windows 11 that made it more difficult to switch default browsers. From a report: A new test build of Windows 11 now allows users of Chrome, Firefox, and other browsers to set a default browser with a single button, which is a far simpler process. Rafael Rivera, developer of the excellent EarTrumpet Windows app, discovered the new Windows 11 changes earlier this week. Instead of having to change individual file extensions or protocol handlers for HTTP, HTTPS, .HTML, and .HTM, Windows 11 now offers a simple button that lets people switch default browsers in a similar way to Windows 10. Microsoft has confirmed the changes are intentional and are currently being tested. "In the Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22509 released to the Dev Channel on Wednesday, we streamlined the ability for a Windows Insider to set the 'default browser' to apps that register for HTTP:, HTTPS:, .HTM, and .HTML," explains Aaron Woodman, vice president of Windows marketing, in a statement to The Verge. "Through the Windows Insider Program you will continue to see us try new things based on customer feedback and testing."
Go ahead, continue to "try new things". (Score:5, Insightful)
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Apple added the ability to do that over a year ago. Settings | Choose the app you want to use as default | Click "Default Browser".
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A whole year ago?
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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And that is a problem for some people both users and developers who want to use some newer features that are supported by most browsers but not webkit.
In most another devices the user can just download an another browser if need be, but not on iOS devices.
Re: Go ahead, continue to "try new things". (Score:5, Informative)
That doesn't really do anything. No matter what "browser" you use, it's still Safari underneath. Apple is basically doing to the web what Microsoft did with IE6: Deliberately holding back web standards. Basically Apple sees the web as a threat to iOS and their app store for the same reason Microsoft saw the web as a threat to Windows. Just as IE was Microsoft's way of containing that threat, Safari is apple's way of containing that threat.
Four big differences (Score:3)
2) The only functional choices for modern use cases are between WebKit and its fork Blink, with the latter being tied to Chromium; and;
3) Everything and the kitchen sink is bundling private copies of Chromium to power their "native apps" causing ridiculously high RAM use; and;
4) 5+ year old tablets can browse the web just fine on iOS with WebKit, while 5+ year old laptops at the same price p
Re: Four big differences (Score:1)
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Re: Go ahead, continue to "try new things". (Score:1)
Anyway (Score:3)
Ahh the good old days. At one point Microsoft said the browser was hopelessly intertwined with the OS.
Fines threatened, "Well, just click a few things, done!"
Comedian: "It's a joke. It's all a joke. iBrowser was their flagship COM interface to allow any broswer manufacturer to plug right in. Then the Internet exploded."
Customer feedback (Score:5, Insightful)
I love how they through in "based on customer feedback" as if that might be the motivation for their constant anticompetitive behavior. There was not one damned customer asking "Can you please make it *harder* for us to use the software we prefer?"
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That's because making things harder is an old thing. It's all in the wording.
Re:Customer feedback (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows would be a very different OS if they even remotely listened to customer feedback. Remember the discussion a few days ago about the shopping features in Edge? I think there was a feedback thread posted on the Insider community. Last I remember it was 15 pages long with not a single positive comment.
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Well... I can easily imagine some IT staff claiming that too many users were using unapproved browsers in the enterprise and could Microsoft please help them put a stop to all of this disgraceful display of autonomy at the workplace.
It's really nice (Score:5, Insightful)
to use a product that constantly tried to abuse you, until enough people scream and shout and push back and the maker of the product releases the pressure a little, until they try again. And again. And again... And it's not just Microsoft.
I hate to sound like an old man, but that's not how computing was done when I was young, and it's not the future of computing I was promised back then. Computers and software were supposed to make life easier and serve their users, not something you have to fight endlessly to retain a modicum of control over what nefarious things they do behind your back.
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but that's not how computing was done when I was young, and it's not the future of computing I was promised back then. Computers and software were supposed to make life easier and serve their users, not something you have to fight endlessly to retain a modicum of control over
I think there was a misunderstanding. At no point in history was a computer promised to be a forever open platform entirely within the user's control. Computers still very much serve you the way you want. Some people want to tinker and maintain every aspect of control over their system. There's an OS for that. Other users largely don't give a shit about any of that, as evident by the number of PCs running Windows 10.
What you were promised is available, but it doesn't preclude something else being available
Re:It's really nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Throughout the history of computing, the computer was indeed used by the purchaser to do what the purchaser wanted to do. It's been that way most of the time. Why did people build EDVAC and ENIAC? To do the computing they wanted to do. Why did people buy IBM mainframes? To do the computing they needed to do. The computer manufacturers really could not do much beyond threatening to remove support if the owners performed unsanctioned activities.
Big upsets in the computing industry have come from users wanting to wrest control away from the computer priesthood: first departments getting minicomputers so that they're not beholden to the mainframe elites, then individuals getting workstations and PCs to get away independence from the minicomputer, then people getting smart tablets and phones to avoid the corporate network rules and lockins (no computers allowed to be on network with unapproved software).
It sort of changed in a big way when instead of selling computers and software to make money, companies were selling services, subscriptions, serving up advertisements, and other ways to monetize the end user beyond the desire of the customer to just do the tasks that are needed. Right now it's Microsoft losing a lot of control of it's dominance and is anxious to figure out how to keep their lifeblood of revenue flowing. Other companies would seek to make a better product, so sell on the basis of quality, but Microsoft has no core competency in quality.
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Indeed, but it's not only Microsoft. Try using an Android handset without Google arbitrating your online experience. Most every new software release is now available only through the vendors' websites on a rental basis. Even at the hardware level, companies are more and more trying to push towards either renting the hardware, or in some IoT cases, the device is a brick unless you also have a monthly subscription to a software platform to go with it.
Re:It's really nice (Score:4, Interesting)
The issue is that Windows on top of being closed, is increasingly trying to leverage their position to advance Microsoft's business interests at the expense of the users.
Windows 11 Home? We are done letting you use your system without forcing you into a microsoft account. You will be told you really should buy subscriptions to Microsoft 365 to really complete the experience. When we can get away with it, we will force you to use our browser even when you try to opt out, and where we can't outright force you not to use the browser, we will pop up a dialog when you go to download a competing browser than you really shouldn't bother, use Edge instead.
It's one thing for a platform to be 'closed hood' for the sake of keeping it easy to use and keeping mistakes and malware at bay from messing things up, it's another to actively run counter to your users wishes in an effort to more effectively exploit them for more revenue than they already gave.
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You will be told you really should buy subscriptions to Microsoft 365 to really complete the experience
No you won't. Microsoft 365 has nothing to do with consumers. At best they may start charging for the OS again (I remind you that the idea of getting Windows for free is part of the new Microsoft you claim are just waiting to nickel and dime users, it's non sequitur)
it's another to actively run counter to your users wishes
Except it's not. It's running counter to your wishes. For the large part users are happy with the curated efforts. The Windows account thing? Well guess what, a lot of the advertised benefits of Windows work only if you have an account. It's ver
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No you won't. Microsoft 365 has nothing to do with consumers.
Strangely enough, I have been using Windows for a home computer, and they absolutely steer you toward Microsoft 365 subscriptions in notifications if you don't have, for example, haven't quite signed on to OneDrive. It is absolutely an offering targeted at consumers: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]. Additionally, if you buy any Microsoft device, it'll push a Microsoft 365 subscription as part of the ordering process.
I remind you that the idea of getting Windows for free is part of the new Microsoft you claim are just waiting to nickel and dime users
But you don't get Windows for free, you pay for it. You can't (legally) just download an
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But Microsoft has an army of people out there volunteering their time to promote and defend Microsoft. That's the IT support departments at almost all enterprises. They are trained in their Microsoft Certificate classes how to promote using Microsoft products for all enterprise solutions, no matter how bad or inept the products are. No one ever got fired for mandating the use of Microsoft products. The enterprise end users are not Microsoft's customer, they're just the poor saps who has to use their pro
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There were two communities: Tech and Marketing. MS is run by marketeers. They won because they could disemploy anyone who disagreed with their control.
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I hate to sound like an old man, but that's not how computing was done when I was young, and it's not the future of computing I was promised back then. Computers and software were supposed to make life easier and serve their users, not something you have to fight endlessly to retain a modicum of control over what nefarious things they do behind your back.
The problem was the internet, the average person on our planet is an idiot when it comes to computers. They started buying corporately hacked software starting with PC games in 1997 with ultima online. The entire tech industry was jealous of what richard garriot got away with in 1997.
In 1990's kids, PC games came with the networking multiplayer built into the game. Everyone in the hardcore PC game community knew the internet was a force of massive software stealing desturction, because two or more networ
What's the big motivation to push a browser? (Score:2)
I admit I am likely missing the obvious but what is the motivation so push so hard for people to use Edge? Where is the money? Is it as simple as driving traffic to Bing?
I could see the idea back in ye-old-IE3/4/5 days when brwsers were these proprietary, controlling things but but pretty close to feature parity between browsers, they are all free and the end user can use whatever they want on all of them basically the same. Why does MS care if someone uses Chrome or Safari when Office365 and all their oth
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If you capture enough of the browser market you can then drive the market (eg. assholes like Google).
While it might not make sense NOW, if they gain a significant market share THEN they can start making changes to generate profit and screw the users. You know, like what Google is doing.
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Ie, consider the Microsoft phones. I know someone who loved them, the one places that the bizarre Windows 8 style metro apps made sense. But most people didn't want the phones because there were better phones with apps stores that had useful stuff. MS didn't have the same lockin on the phone that they did on the computer. So... make the desktop look like the phone and maybe it will drive phone sales? Add an app-store and maybe it drives revenue there. Apple and Google make most of their money from ser
The prospect of the lawsuits (Score:2)
that would have been going their way might have changed their mind.
They have form if you can remember back far enough.
Just give MS the finger and stop being a pawn in their end game...
Why does Microsoft care about browsers any longer? (Score:2)
Why does Microsoft care about browsers any longer? What does it matter to them if I use Firefox, Chrome, or Lynx. They make the entire OS, it's not like they don't have enough telemetry data to sell. Is it just about making Bing the default home page so that they get advertising dollars?
How about we just make advertising illegal? Countless many ills from society ultimately track down to "Company screwed its own customers because they make more money from advertising than from providing a good product."
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It's not the browser as an end in and of itself, it's trying to deny Google a launching pad to steer you toward Google services that compete with OneDrive and Office subscriptions.
While the ship has sailed on mobile, Google Docs versus Microsoft Office may yet be heavily influenced by the desktop experience, and Office is far more valuable to Microsoft than Windows, so of course they are prepared to throw Windows users under the bus a little bit in the name of mitigating Google Docs/Google Drive market pene
Stupidifying the Windows Experience (Score:4, Insightful)
In XP and below, Programs handled default file associations and setting extensions manually was a pain because each extension had its own association. Although this was a pain, in XP, file associations had a lot more power options and could be easily managed and even removed if necessary.
Then Vista came out and added options to set defaults not only by extension, but by program as well with check boxes to select specific extensions for app associations. This made it much easier to set default associations, but removed some of the power user options that XP had at the granular level. (like adding options to the right click menu for example)
In 7 (or 8, don't remember) they started enforcing default associations and forced you to use the app to set associations because Viruses are now a thing and take over extensions maliciously to execute. Not a big problem because the default programs selector doesn't suck yet.
Once 10 released, they decided to start stupidifying the interface for your protection, removed the ability to blanket default an app or checkmark what you want to be default for a certain app (except for browsers and certain apps) and eventually removed the smart user control panel default programs app to consolidate the experience to the stupid user control panel.
Windows 11 comes full circle by bringing the file association experience back to its Windows XP roots while removing all of the power options that we had back then.
in Summary, Windows Vista / 7 was peak default program settings. It gave you full control on what opens what without making it a pain to change things in bulk if necessary. They should either give up on the idiot control panel and bring this back or make the idiot control panel on par with the windows 7's control panel's ease of use.
What about edge:// (Score:2)
Yeah fixing the individual protocol handlers is one step, but the bigger issue is they still use their own edge:// protocol internally so regardless of what you set as your default browser, Cortana, help, the damn weather notification all still open in Edge.
Only a few weeks ago they killed EdgeDeflector https://github.com/da2x/EdgeDe... [github.com] I wonder if they will revert that change so it works as well.
It's too late for me... (Score:2)
... I've already switched to Linux on my personal systems. Only one left is the gaming PC and that's switching directly from Win10 to Linux in 2025 at the latest.
Good. Now remove the TPM requirement. (Score:2)
Before that is done, I will not even look at it.