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Transportation

Amazon Driver Was Warned She'd Be Fired For Returning With Packages During a Tornado (theverge.com) 179

Joe_Dragon shares a report from The Verge: An Amazon delivery driver in Illinois was told to keep delivering packages after she reported hearing tornado sirens, with the dispatcher saying that the sirens were "just a warning." According to a report by Bloomberg, which includes screenshots of the conversation, the driver was told that returning to the warehouse would be viewed as a route refusal, "which [would] ultimately end with you not having a job come tomorrow morning."

The conversation reportedly happened on Friday evening, around an hour and a half before a tornado hit an Amazon facility around 30 miles away from the driver. After being told twice to "just keep delivering," the driver was eventually instructed to shelter in place "for 15-20 minutes, then continue as normal." (The instructions to shelter in place were repeated several more times after.) The driver, expressing that a delivery van wouldn't provide much safety, said she wanted to return to base. ""If you decide to come back, that choice is yours.""

The dispatcher's response is harrowing: "If you decide to come back, that choice is yours. But I can tell you it won't be viewed as for your own safety. The safest practice is to stay exactly where you are." The dispatcher said drivers couldn't be recalled unless Amazon directed it and that she would lose her job if she returned. The tornado ended up touching down near a highway, throwing cars in the air, according to Bloomberg, though the driver involved in the text exchange is reported to be safe. Amazon told Bloomberg that the dispatcher "should have immediately directed the driver to seek shelter" when they reported hearing the sirens and said that "under no circumstance should the dispatcher have threatened the driver's employment." The company says it's investigating the incident.

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Amazon Driver Was Warned She'd Be Fired For Returning With Packages During a Tornado

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  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:31PM (#62092697) Journal

    Manual labor is like school. If you are allowed to take a break from work, you take it. If the employees are allowed to take a safety break because of a tornado, all the employees will take it. The fact that they didn't, is strong circumstantial evidence that they were pressured not to.

    It might not stand up in court, but all those employees were almost certainly pressured to keep working when the tornado alarm went off.

    • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:36PM (#62092709)

      if they only had an union to fight for them!

      • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:16PM (#62092823) Journal

        They shouldn't need a union to keep them safe from collapsing buildings. That's a right every American should have, period.

        • by demon driver ( 1046738 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:10AM (#62093391) Journal

          Even if there is such a right, as an employee you still need to be able to enforce it. In doubt, employees still have to succumb to the employer's whims, lawful or not, to keep their jobs. One of the reasons unions exist is to help employees enforce their rights.

          • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

            Enforcing it is the government's job in Switzerland and it works about as well as with unionsmin the US.

            • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Saturday December 18, 2021 @06:11AM (#62093583) Homepage Journal

              In the US enforcement of all kinds has either been cut back or bought off. California has a little bit of worker protection, most of the country has even less.

              • That is a large part of the reason Tesla is moving to Texas. California has worker protection and it seems that Musk just wants to put people in danger. Look at how he treated covid and any kind of safety gear. With Texas he won't have that problem. Even if he gets the workers killed there is very little liability.

                • In Texas they could be in the middle of operating some heavy deadly machinery in a large factory and then all the lights go out because Texas likes to fsck with its power grid. Whoops, no emergency lighting either because fsck workers. I'd wonder how many people would die.

                • by Geekbot ( 641878 )

                  It seems Musk wants to put people in danger? How does it seem like that? That Elon Musk wants to endanger the people that are producing his product is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

                  There is very little liability for getting your workers killed in Texas? Again, this an amazing story if it is true. But it's hard to believe something so outlandish as that. Do you have any evidence that there is little liability for getting workers killed in Texas?

                  I'm not saying tha

        • by kenh ( 9056 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @07:01AM (#62093697) Homepage Journal

          And if the driver returned to the now collapsed warehouse she'd likely be dead now.

          If I remember correctly, most drivers work for third-parties, not directly for Amazon, and the likelihood that it was an Amazon employee that told another Amazon employee to keep delivering packages before telling the driver to shelter is very, very small.

          As for the "If they only had a Union" - the likelihood that the third-party delivery company would be unionized is very, very small (unions want to represent warehouse workers at Amazon-owned facilities, not a handful of drivers that work for a delivery service that takes contract work from Amazon.

          Best indication this driver wasn't an Amazon employee - the threat of near-instant termination. Amazon, like any large American corporation, probably has an elaborate separation process that doesn't terminate employees on their first infraction/violation of company policy.

          The real scenario is that a first-time small business owner leased some trucks from Amazon, hired a handful of drivers to help service the needs of Amazon, and when pressed to make a management decision for the first time threatened the driver with immediate termination for returning early.

          Think about it, every "Amazon warehouses are hell holes" story I've ever read talks about performance improvement plans, employees getting 'written up' for infractions, and that terminations occur after a small pile of 'infractions' are accumulated.

        • I agree with the sentiment but not the semantics: that's an abuse of the word right.

          People should indeed have a reasonable expectation of building safety. And hey, we do have building codes! It's up to investigation to show whether the building was up to code.

          After that, we'll have all the arguments and weeping and gnashing of teeth about how the compensation was too much or little, or how to change building codes, forgetting that if you tried to make building codes cover worst-case scenarios nobody would

        • They shouldn't need a union to keep them safe from collapsing buildings. That's a right every American should have, period.

          If the government functioned as it should by protecting the rights of employees and ensuring income disparities do not become too exaggerated, then unions would be completely unnecessary.

          Unions are a less than ideal solution for a problem that, unfortunately, we have not solved by other means

      • If only there weren't millions and millions of illegals making that pointless.

        • by Sique ( 173459 )
          If you had a union, they could collect evidence and then prove conclusively that the employer is systematically hiring illegals.
      • if they only had an union to fight for them!

        If only they had a legal system that enabled a wronged individual to reasonably seek reparation, regardless of if that wrong-doer is rich, poor, or corporate.

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Yes. JMHO... the solution to this problem should be to have government clamp down on this hard - create statutory liabilities to apply even if nothing goes wrong. That would be the right response and the way to make sure it happens never again... not with Amazon, and not with any other large employer.

      E.g. a $200,000 per employee per incident per day statutory liability for employers for each instance of "endangerment" for any encouragement to continue working under any potentially unsafe condition, na

    • by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:09PM (#62092801)
      The elephant in the room is that no employment contract (other than for armed forces) can legally require people (they are not just employees) to endanger their own lives.
      • Police officers, roughnecks, miners, and arctic fishermen might disagree.

        • by Linux Torvalds ( 647197 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:34PM (#62092867)

          Yes, for the others, but police are not required to endanger their little curly tails for anyone or anything [nytimes.com].

          • They're not obligated to protect anyone, but just being in the uniform is dangerous. It's not as dangerous as lots of other jobs that are often appreciated much less, but it's not like there's no risk inherent to being a cop. It only isn't anywhere near as dangerous as they like to make it out to be.

        • Police officers

          I include them as part of the armed forces.

          roughnecks, miners

          Only in 3rd world countries. It's obvious I'm talking about the US and other Western 1st world countries.

          arctic fishermen

          The job comes with dangers, but at no point are people actually told to sacrifice themselves.

          • Itâ(TM)s kind of funny, thinking about what employers have asked of me over the years. In my first job, I was asked to put my rear on the line and travel to Iraq and Afghanistan on behalf of my employer (in 2006). I was rewarded handsomely for that, and made the decision to go knowing the risks.

            Later, I was volunteering with a charitable organization that operates at a remote wilderness site. When a wildfire ignited in our valley, I was asked to stay behind on the ride-out crew when we evacuated everyo

        • People who are trained to do a job safely while in dangerous situations are not the same as people who find themselves in danger.
        • It's really a shame you got downmodded for this, even though you included police officers (which is like the 22nd most dangerous job category in the USA or something, my job is way higher up the list) because there are plenty of jobs where just doing them properly is inherently risky. In many of the most dangerous jobs your life could end through no one person's fault even though everyone is doing the best job they can.

      • by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:40PM (#62092975)

        The other elephant in the room is that while you are on the company dime, they have a responsibility towards your safety.

        There seems to be a misguided nonchalance towards a company's role in causing the situation, with the entire onus put on the employees to put on their best John Wayne impression as they walk off towards the sunset.

        Unfortunately, the mortgage company, the landlord, the utilities, etc. will be not as understanding, even if it was the best response overall; there will be consequences that Amazon will not have to bear in creating the situation in the first place, and that is purely evil.

      • The elephant in the room is that no employment contract (other than for armed forces) can legally require people (they are not just employees) to endanger their own lives.

        Firefighters and Police.

  • by nocoiner ( 7891194 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:36PM (#62092707)

    It's clear what the work culture at Amazon's fulfillment centers is like - and it's clearly been institutionalized from the very beginning. And there's only a few key people at Amazon that could responsible for that...

  • Warning [thefreedictionary.com] : A statement telling of or an indication providing evidence of impending danger, difficulty, or misfortune.

    • by quintessencesluglord ( 652360 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:21PM (#62092839)

      Warning in this context means a tornado has been identified and you should immediately seek shelter (as opposed to watch).

      Don't know about Illinois, but in Kentucky there were several hours of tornado warning where something better than ride it out was an option, and was rebuffed, probably on the hope that the tornado would veer 10 degrees north and a few more hours of work could be squeezed in. Profits before people.

      Anticipate massive lawsuits to follow (the prisoners in Kentucky were particularly egregious) and if there is any justice in this would, several heads on pikes. This was completely uncalled for.

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Your "definition" is at odds with the meaning of a tornado warning actually is. Let me help you wiki that.

      A tornado warning (SAME code: TOR) is a severe weather warning product issued by regional offices of weather forecasting agencies throughout the world to alert the public when a tornado has been reported or indicated by weather radar within the parent severe thunderstorm. It can be issued after a tornado, funnel cloud and rotation in the clouds has been witnessed by the public, storm chasers, emergency

  • Another reason (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:45PM (#62092737)
    ... to consider an alternative to Amazon the next time you need something. I stopped using Amazon when I was told there is no way to filter out Chinese sellers from search results. I got tired of playing whack-a-mole with fake/garbage products. Amazon seems bad for everyone involved, except, of course, for that Bozo guy that owns it.
    • by lsllll ( 830002 )
      While I'm with you on being able to filter out some sellers, it's usually easy to spot them. If your product is going to take more than one week to arrive, fuggedaboutit, unless you're desperate. And I tried boycotting Amazon for 3 months. Check my posts from Aug 2019. I had to crawl back to them. It was sickening, and it still is. OTOH, I do like my Amazon delivery girl!
      • I'm curious what you buy regularly that actually requires you to use Amazon. They have a lot of unique references, but there are good chances these are crappy gadgets, a risk to be taken for fun very occasionally, not something you "need" for the important matters of your life. The products from their own brand are not worth the hassle of paying for a disappointment, and the good quality products are available in plenty of other places. I guess people use Amazon for the convenience of dealing with just one

        • by lsllll ( 830002 )

          Take a multi-purpose screwdriver, for instance. I'm the type that'll look at (almost) every last one on Amazon and will keep 20 tabs of them open, then eliminate them one at a time until I get to the one that I want. Waste of time? Perhaps. Would most of them have done? Perhaps. But that's just me. That's why I need Amazon or eBay.

          I still do a lot of shopping on eBay, depending on whether I can wait for the item or not, or if it's used or not, but if I need something today, it's Amazon, even if it co

    • Yes, I may be just one in a million, but I will never use Amazon again either. Just spend some more time searching for your desired object....
    • True. Personally, I try to buy at Amazon only if I can't get something elsewhere. Still, everyone stopping to buy at Amazon will not keep that driver employed, either.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @08:51PM (#62092757)

    Specifically - dispatchers will be sent to mandatory training so they can learn how NOT to respond in a manner which can be documented.

    • Specifically - dispatchers will be sent to mandatory training so they can learn how NOT to respond in a manner which can be documented.

      Maybe via a seance? Oh, wait. That's for after the drivers get kill by the tornado... I think that's in Appendix S.

  • 40 lashes! and some sensitivity training.
    • I would have thought this would be sufficient for a criminal prosecution, something along the lines of "recklessly endangering lives". There have to be limits and Amazon's behaviour with these tornados exceeded any sensible limits.

  • by Malays2 bowman ( 6656916 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:14PM (#62092809)

    Decades ago, we mocked other countries for allowing employers to put employees lives at risk.

      Now we are becoming one of those countries.

    • by ghoul ( 157158 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:10PM (#62093019)
      Years ago other countries were still recovering from the destruction of their economies either by colonialism or WW2. Now its a more level playing field and Americans gotto hustle too.
      • Years ago other countries were still recovering from the destruction of their economies either by colonialism or WW2. Now its a more level playing field and Americans gotto hustle too.

        That's actually quite insightful, but I've commented in the thread, so can't mod you up.

        It's easy to look down on countries that have less prosperity and their business practices, but harder to recognize that when you're struggling to make ends meet, desperation tactics make sense. When hardship is deciding between rose gold and white iPhones, that's when human-rights issues darned well better be dealt-with.

  • It's pretty clear that our current government doesn't have the resources or willingness to protect workers. People need to create parallel structure to government in order to protect themselves. They also need to be able to form voting blocks that can lobby for their own interests.

    People need unions.
    • And what happens when those parallel structures either conflict with government, or become government? You're back where you started, or heading for revolution.

  • by reanjr ( 588767 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:24PM (#62092847) Homepage

    Why didn't she just seek shelter? Why would you call your boss and ask for permission to follow government directions?

    • by splutty ( 43475 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:28PM (#62092851)

      Because they're tracked exactly by the minute where they are and how fast they're delivering packages.

      • What's the alternative? Keep delivering packages until inevitably your truck gets picked up by a tornado, and you and the packages are spread across a 5 square mile area? Do you think the driver would be fired for going off route when the truck isn't even in contact with the ground?

        Sorry, my personal safety is above all other work commitments (unless there is some hazard pay). If Amazon doesn't like it, they can sue the National Weather Service.
        • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:21AM (#62093409) Journal

          Sorry, my personal safety is above all other work commitments

          Same, but I'm really lucky in that I'm not a minimum wage delivery driver. I own my own house and have savings. If my employer asks me to do something dangerous or unethical, I can walk out the door and have no financial worries. It helps that I also live in a country with a social safety net and single payer healthcare.

          If you're on the other end of the spectrum, and you probably are if you're working deliveries for a company like Amazon in the US, then you've got a lot more to consider. You've got rent to pay, maybe a family to feed, healthcare costs and etc. Not having a job tomorrow is a really serious consideration, and one that people will quite reasonably put themselves in danger for.

          I am not going to criticise someone for trying to make ends meet. but Amazon is one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world.

    • Some of us can't risk losing our jobs. It's not the same scenario - no government directive - but the day my dad died, I got a text that morning from a sibling who was at my parent's house when my dad said he didn't feel well. My sibling texted me and said I needed to get home - a five hour drive from where I worked. I waited for my manager to get in, and then had to present a case to take the day off on the possibility that my dad wasn't actually dying that day. Schedules have to be met, you know. I w
    • Why didn't she just seek shelter? Why would you call your boss and ask for permission to follow government directions?

      "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds"

  • by Gavino ( 560149 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @09:55PM (#62092903)
    Once upon a time unions threatened strikes in order to stand up to worker abuses like this. I'm guessing Amazon workers are non-Unionised? When there's a massive employer/employee imbalance like this, unsurprisingly this is the outcome.

    I bet Bezos doesn't launch his fucking peniscraft during a tornado!
    • What happened to "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds"?

    • by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @05:54AM (#62093555)

      Amazon are famous for the dirty tricks they use to prevent unionisation. Not just propaganda - they've gone so far as to hire private investigators to infiltrate the workforce, identify anyone talking about unionisation when they think that management can't hear, and pre-emptively firing those people.

  • If my employer told me to do something that I determined would seriously put me at risk of serious injury or death, I would tell my employer to go fuck itself.

  • It's a twister!

    Dispatcher: I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog, too!

  • by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @10:12PM (#62092935) Journal

    "Enormous company has at least one idiot. Maybe even more!"

    More on this exciting development when we return from commercial.

    • "Enormous company has at least one idiot. Maybe even more!"

      More on this exciting development when we return from commercial.

      Yes but this enormous company seems to have far more than just one idiot. An anecdote isn't data, but when all the anecdotes point to the same thing...

  • the driver was eventually instructed to shelter in place

    I can't imagine "sheltering in place" would provide much protection against a tornado, when "in place" means in a vehicle.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )
      Shelter in Place would be finding the nearest storm shelter instead of driving back to a warehouse about to be hit by a tornado.
      • That sounds like a good idea (are there storm shelters all over the place?), but it doesn't seem like that's what the dispatcher meant. For example, from the summary, the driver "expressed that a delivery van wouldn't provide much safety." and then "the safest practice is to stay exactly where you are."

        That doesn't sound the same as driving to the nearest storm shelter.

  • by peterww ( 6558522 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:07PM (#62093015)

    for an employer to threaten the employment of an employee to force them to keep working under duress?

    A union.

  • by ScienceMan ( 636648 ) on Friday December 17, 2021 @11:15PM (#62093023)
    The phrase "just a warning" reflects a deep and dangerous misunderstanding on the part of the dispatcher that must be fixed. In the NWS terminology, a "watch" means conditions are such that a tornado is possible, and a "warning" is the most dangerous condition, that there IS one and that you should seek shelter immediately. No one should ever respond to a weather "warning" condition by saying it's "just" a warning; that's the opposite of what it means!
    • The phrase "just a warning" reflects a deep and dangerous misunderstanding on the part of the dispatcher that must be fixed. In the NWS terminology, a "watch" means conditions are such that a tornado is possible, and a "warning" is the most dangerous condition, that there IS one and that you should seek shelter immediately. No one should ever respond to a weather "warning" condition by saying it's "just" a warning; that's the opposite of what it means!

      Posting to undo incorrect moderation.

  • If her home base was the Amazon facility that was hit - might have been safer somewhere else. But Amazon will just let the dispatcher take the fall for this - they're just as expendable as the drivers.

    • That's not how this works. That dispatcher doesn't work for Amazon, but for a Delivery Service Partner. Amazon will complain to that DSP for making them look bad, but there's no guarantee they'll be disciplined or terminated over this. Remember: This is the same company that knows god damn well their drivers are pissing in bottles just to make the impossible route times they've been handed and simply doesn't give a shit.

    • The safest possible decision balances expected risk across many possible outcomes based on available information at the time. That is quite different from the safest theoretical decision using hindsight and a time machine to know the actual outcome (warehouse will be hit).

      The safest decision at the time would probably be shelter (not in small vehicle).

      Whereas the safest decision in hindsight with god-like perfect information might be to skillfully drive a path to safety, dynamically avoiding all tornado

  • This seems to be exactly the kind of work culture Amazon is about. Tracking every move and counting every second. Ofcource this is the outcome. Nothing to surprising...
  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @04:49AM (#62093433)

    Zero regard for human life. This guy should be in prison instead of where he is. But since he is exploiting and abusing adults, nobody cares.

    • by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @05:10AM (#62093465)

      Bezos has many layers of corporate isolation between himself and the abuses, for his own legal protection. The dispatcher probably didn't even work for Amazon, but a "Delivery Service Partner" - a company Amazon contracts to handle their deliveries.

      It means that if the Delivery Service Partner ever screws up and commits a serious crime, or does something that incurs massive civil liability, they can be sacrificed - deliberately allowed to go bankrupt to void any debts. The DSP ceases to legally exist, and Amazon isn't responsible for anything they did. Then Amazon can just set up a new DSP, that can easily re-hire the old staff.

      It's a common corporate trick. Even the Catholic Church has used it to avoid paying out on abuse compensation claims.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Indeed. But legal isolation does not provide moral isolation. The moral aspect in fact gets worse, because those actually calling the shots make sure they cannot be held accountable for their decisions. So Bezos is ultimately and personally responsible for all this crap that is done in his name. If it were isolated incidents, that would be different. But it is not. It is systematic. It is intended.

  • by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Saturday December 18, 2021 @06:04AM (#62093569)
    This is the kind of shit that happens when you put profit over lives.

    Something that some retarded idiots in the 5G radioactive amulet thread arguing against lockdowns don't seem to get.
  • If she thinks she's moreimportant than Amazon Prime customers' delivery windows, she should be sacked. This is America, not some socialist country with health & safety & human rights!

"The pathology is to want control, not that you ever get it, because of course you never do." -- Gregory Bateson

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