Facebook To Bring in Mandatory Distances Between Virtual Reality Avatars (theguardian.com) 143
Mark Zuckerberg's virtual reality business is to introduce a mandatory distance between people's digital avatars after warnings that the social media tycoon's plans for a metaverse will lead to a new wave of online harassment. From a report: Zuckerberg, the founder of Facebook, is making a multibillion-dollar bet on VR as the next source of growth for his empire but his strategy has already been dogged by warnings that virtual worlds are rife with abuse. In December a user testing Horizon Worlds, a VR app owned by Zuckerberg's Meta business, complained of being groped online and called for a protective bubble around their avatar, or digital representation of themselves. "Sexual harassment is no joke on the regular internet but being in VR adds another layer that makes the event more intense," said the user.
Also make masks mandatory (Score:5, Funny)
Social distancing and masks, so we can all relive the COVID good times in virtual reality.
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You really want people to wear masks, because good lord there are some ugly ass avatars out there :D
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Why don't we all just disappear into separate single-player AR worlds where we can script the behavior of all the NPC's to tell us how attractive and charming we are.
Come to think of it I think The Matrix had to invent a rationalization for why it wasn't like that, but I thought it was kind of mumbo-jumbo.
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Alas, the ability to force someone to use a "generic skin" will be never implemented, because those who use it will never see the fancy bling the whale user just paid millions for. So having the viewer be able to strip everyone's avatar down to a generic avatar, while a good idea, will probably never happen.
Of course, that would probably be a feature users will hack in.
I FUCKING LOVE FACEBOOK (Score:5, Insightful)
VRChat has had this for years, and they call it "Personal Space." You can turn it off and 99% of people do.
Why are we playing this game where we pretend that Facebook is in any way ahead of the curve on social VR? Is it ignorance of the authors? Big money?
Re: I FUCKING LOVE FACEBOOK (Score:3)
Does anyone actually think that? As far as I can tell, the consensus is this is just an unofficial sequel to Second Life.
Re: I FUCKING LOVE FACEBOOK (Score:2)
unofficial sequel to Second Life
Unless everything (and I do mean everything) can be equipped with a fully "functional" penis of grotesque proportions, it will never be a successor to Second Life.
Re: I FUCKING LOVE FACEBOOK (Score:2)
VR is just pixels (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:VR is just pixels (Score:4, Insightful)
Well you know, virtual groping is like hentai paedophilia and non-binary gender fluidity: insane is the new normal.
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...insane is the new normal.
While I agree with you, there used to be far less humans on the planet voting for that insanity, to lead and control all of us.
The problem isn't watching the societal pendulum swing. That's normal. The problem is when Greed N. Corruption are found giving it a violent push because profits. When the pendulum swings this hard in one direction, the I've-had-ENOUGH backlash be just as damaging.
We keep this up, and Fucking Insane won't just be illegal in the future. We'll issue hunting permits and trophies.
Re:VR is just pixels (Score:5, Insightful)
Putting caps on the annoying behavior of griefers is considered a QoL improvement in any other game.
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I will admit I've never played WoW with VR goggles strapped to my face, blocking my peripheral vision and trapping me into the sensory experience of the virtual world.
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:2)
trapping me into the sensory experience of the virtual world.
Trapped? You know you can just.... take them off, right?
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:2)
Re:VR is just pixels (Score:5, Insightful)
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this thing happened to them in a fantasy land
they dont like that thing
so they call for real world action to save them from their troubles that are within that fantasy land
this is sort of like pleading with the federal government to solve your local isp issues that are caused by the local government you voted for
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Facebook requires users to use their real names. Their avatars are tied to their public profiles. It's not a complete fantasy - in fact its USP is that it's an extension of reality.
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Facebook requires users to use their real names. Their avatars are tied to their public profiles. It's not a complete fantasy - in fact its USP is that it's an extension of reality.
The odd thing is that not allowing the avatars to get close to each other will simply open a venue for services that do. And will be an impediment to widespread adoption.
Pr0n drives this stuff, and people who get damaged and demand that Facebook adopt 21st century sexual harassment of pixels are creepier than the people who would enjoy their avatars to engage in sex.
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:2)
Agreed! (Score:2)
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what quad damage in Quake would feel like? Best not to find out, I'm guessing.
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Wouldn't the victim need to have been wearing some sort of force-feedback full-body garment to feel being groped (or does making the game controller buzz count)?
No. Consider say, asking a woman out that you work with. If she finds you attractive, she might say yes. If she doesn't, you might get an invitation to get a different job by HR.
Sexual harassment is sometimes in the mind of the person claiming it. There are obvious cases, and there is the more subtle stuff, like our sexual harassment counselor telling the men that telling a woman you liked her earrings was harassment.
Most women won't, but we were told it was harassment if a woman said it was. Luck of th
Re: Agreed! (Score:2)
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither does calling someone a "nig*er" or "fag*ot" harm them. But in polite [moderated] society, we generally frown on anti-social degenerates.
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Neither does calling someone a "nig*er" or "fag*ot" harm them. But in polite [moderated] society, we generally frown on anti-social degenerates.
If you had an avatar, and another one winked at you - have you been damaged? Kissed you? Talked to you? Had the wrong political party?
Perhaps in the spirit of 21st century sensitivities, the damaged people might be issued digital sidearms, so the can take a digital second amendment solution to the avatar sex offenders. Or at least have the human behind the avatar charged with sexual assault and jail them. Really, trying to equivocate the harm to an avatar with calling someone what you suggested is kinda s
Re:VR is just pixels (Score:5, Insightful)
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Harassing someone in a VR system is no less serious than harassing someone with phone calls or by yelling from the street in front of their home.
I agree, but how far should this go? in ESO, you can block someone so they can't talk with you and you won't see their chat in the general zone chat (or even groups if you happen to fall in one with them). So you block them in VR. But you can still see them, and they constantly come in front of you and take off their clothes. So then VR develops an option to not see them at all. So then they write on a blackboard "Larry Laffer is a faggot" and you see that. So does VR need to allow you to block from s
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Harassment is a criminal matter, regardless of the medium used. There's no need for any new laws or rules for it.
Perhaps omnipresent CCTV could work? (Score:2)
Caching is required to track object state and synchronise laggy clients anyway, so, adding a temporary persistent snapshot to c
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It might be nice if that was a feasible solution, but as you've pointed out, it's difficult to implement effectively.
Harassment is a criminal matter, regardless of the medium used. There's no need for any new laws or rules for it.
Right - I take it you believe that if a male avatar on Facebook kisses a female avatar, he should be arrested, and when found guilty sent to prison, and register as a sex offender.
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The inappropriate use of the sex offender registry is a separate and much larger topic.
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:2)
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Typical tech company secrecy & anonymity make criminal investigations difficult & costly. Your answer to that?
Search warrants. There isn't nearly as much anonymity as you think.
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It is fake, but it is real enough to disturb a person. If one were in real life fondle or grab someone in the genital area, or even just flash them, it could based on the circumstances create an emotional harm, even if it doesn't create a physical harm.
While VR is fake, it is real enough to disturb a person. An old VR trick is having them with VR glasses try to walk across a plank over a cliff or skyscrapers, there is no real danger, however the person does get real fear from trying it.
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It is fake, but it is real enough to disturb a person. If one were in real life fondle or grab someone in the genital area, or even just flash them, it could based on the circumstances create an emotional harm, even if it doesn't create a physical harm. While VR is fake, it is real enough to disturb a person. An old VR trick is having them with VR glasses try to walk across a plank over a cliff or skyscrapers, there is no real danger, however the person does get real fear from trying it.
We need to arrest these people, charge them with sexual assault, then prison and lifetime registration as a sex offender.
The really cool part is that any time the digital rapist moves, (assuming they aren't living under a bridge) they will have to tell all the neighbors that their avatar kissed another avatar.
Interim punishment, until we make all sexual offenses capital crimes, and cure the problem once and for all. When men know they will die if they inflict avatar damage a woman in any way, then mayb
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The pixels cant do you any damage.
"Pixels can't do you any damage."
"Words can't hurt you."
"A bruise doesn't hurt much and gets better soon, but cruel words can last a lifetime."
"PTSD isn't real (or doesn't count as real damage)."
"If words control you that means everyone else can control you. Breathe and allow things to pass."
All of these aphorisms sound plausible, but they're unsubstantiated (or, they depend so crucially on your definition of "damage" that they amount to a definition of the word and hence are tautologies).
How about some fac
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:2)
Re: VR is just pixels (Score:3)
Slashdot is full of people who got bullied in real life because they couldnâ(TM)t fight back but somehow think that, since they get to be the bullies online, itâ(TM)s somehow ok there.
Pool's Closed 2.0? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pool's Closed 2.0? (Score:5, Informative)
Does that mean you can get a bunch of people to block off areas of the metaverse, Habbo Hotel-style?
Very likely. Seems Meta has no clue what they are doing. You could probably also capture people by standing around them as a group. There is a good reason many MMOs allow avatar overlap.
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Well yeah. Remember in Everquest when a single Ogre could stand in the door frame of say, the bank? It basically shut the whole area down until a GM came along. That's the best reason for not having collision detection in those kinds of environments.
Still, collision detection has it's uses in other types of games or single player.
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My guess is the "bubble" is simply an area in which other avatars disappear. So the avatars can move through each other without blocking and without being able to interact within a certain radius. Your avatar can't grope another or feel as if your avatar has been groped, because you can't see anyone within an arm's reach.
If 1000 avatars went to a single virtual ticket counter at the same time to buy a virtual ticket to a virtual concert, each person would see they are the only avatar standing there. No queu
Re: Pool's Closed 2.0? (Score:2)
Some People want to get close... (Score:5, Informative)
Others don't. Second Life solved this problem 15 years ago. You can wear (as in clothing item) an invisible shield, like a simple transparent cylinder. Then other people can't get too close. Avatar sex is very popular, so that group of users will want to get right up close. Make it an option, then people can do what they want.
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Avatar sex is very popular
Yes, I too used to paint my left hand blue and call it Neytiri in the basement. But one day I discovered real sex with another person and my mind was blown!
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So you do not read books or watch movies or the news? Because they are not directly real either....
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I discovered real sex with another person and my mind was blown!
You may want to try again, that's not usually what gets blown.
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Use your blown mind to imagine other bodily parts.
You're a southpaw? (Score:2)
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I'm not sure ads are going to be a prominent source of income. Facebook has already milked that tit.
Metaverse (I never met a verse I didn't like), no matter the vendor (Microsoft, Google, Apple ...) will thrive on in-app purchases similar to Farmville.
My avatar: Where'd you get the cool flight jacket?
Another avatar: Over at the clothing store, but be ready to pay a small fortune.
Re: Some People want to get close... (Score:2)
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I am a 76-year old retired IT guy. The first problem I would have predicted is some guy removing all his clothes and masturbating in "public."
Next would have been verbal harassment like today's trolls.
Grabbing erotic zones would have been last.
But ToS have evolved such that they cover all this shit starting a long time ago.
Re: Some People want to get close... (Score:2)
Re: Some People want to get close... (Score:2)
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Not going to happen in omg-female-nipple-alarm! Facebook. It's gotta be Disneyfied so he doesn't need age restrictions.
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I have been active in Second Life for over 10 years and I have never had a problem with a avatar getting to close or in my avatars personal space. Honestly, I've never even thought of my avatar having a personal space. This is not a problem.
mandatory distance (Score:5, Funny)
Personally, I have a very large mandatory distance I keep between myself and anything that company creates
tip of the iceberg (Score:2)
This is just the top of the iceberg of issues that the metaverse will have. Why not join the metaverse as a Zuck clone? You do not need to be 'close' to cause damage and harass people.
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This is just the top of the iceberg of issues that the metaverse will have. Why not join the metaverse as a Zuck clone? You do not need to be 'close' to cause damage and harass people.
Indeed. Normal sane adults or teenagers will just give any would-be harasser the finger and ignore or report them after that. It is people with mental problems that are at risk here and most of them can be damaged and harassed from a distance, often even better.
Re: tip of the iceberg (Score:2)
What? (Score:2)
Non-existent virtual avatars needs "space".... no, the human race is a failed experiment, time to restart the planet with something new...
Prepping. (Score:2)
So I need a long virtual dick? (Score:2)
Asking for a friend.
Filters ? (Score:3)
Or, you know, you could just let people filter other people out?
It's not a competitive online game. There's no reason why the system can't make people I've blocked totally invisible to me. Bonus: If I'm not in the mood for social interactions, I can just block everyone and enjoy a peaceful day. :-)
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There's no reason why the system can't make people I've blocked totally invisible to me.
Straight away you haven't thought through the 3rd person perspective. It's one thing to block someone from your life, it's quite another to witness the strange sensation of a one sided blocking. In the 3D world that would translate to you likely standing inside someone without realising, or if actual collision detection is on, not having a clue why you have an invisible wall in front of you, bonus points if the latter is on purpose and the "hidden" person gets to continue to troll you.
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Nonsense.
First, the block should work both ways, of course.
To a 3rd person, there's no reason the system can't give them yet another perspective, subtly shifting both mine and yours (assuming I blocked you or vice versa) avatars a tiny bit so they're not superimposed.
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To a 3rd person, there's no reason the system can't give them yet another perspective, subtly shifting both mine and yours (assuming I blocked you or vice versa) avatars a tiny bit so they're not superimposed.
Because the ultimate form of realism in our new meta VR world is two people who have blocked each other walking through a door and one clipping through a wall?
Again you haven't thought this through. The smallest of changes have consequences for a game. Just ask Bethesda what happened when they made it so that bees could be picked up.
*In case you don't know, this simple insignificant change resulted in changes to the collision system in the game as there needs to be collision present to interact with an obje
Re: Filters ? (Score:2)
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It's not a competitive online game.
You're right. It's not.
If the richest most powerful people on the planet became that way with 2-3 hours of your day, just imagine how wealthy they will become with 8-10 hours of your day. Still think you're going to have the power or right to "block" your boss when you want to have "invisible" time?
Twitter was just another communications platform, until it became THE platform, big enough to influence Free Speech. Even in America.
Facebook was just another social media platform, until it became THE social
Many humans are stupid (Score:2)
Just require an math and science test prior to being allowed on the internet.
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Simple solution... (Score:2)
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you remove the veil of anonymity and suddenly people behave.
Yeah. They also stop protesting and questioning the government in the same volumes as well..
NO THANKS.
Re: Simple solution... (Score:2)
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If they're protesting the government in an online game, they're doing it wrong.
I didn't limit it to that and your opinion on where people protest is irrelevant. You don't make the rules. Protesting and discussions should be available everywhere. A statement to the effect of "If you're protesting on Slashdot, you're doing it wrong" is just as goofy.
The more privacy and anonymity is stripped from the internet, as a whole, the less effective of a tool it becomes.
It's got an off button (Score:2)
You realize you might turn someone off? (Score:2)
Do more! (Score:3)
Let’s kill the planet everyone! (Score:2)
I fear that converting all normies into glorified “IRL gamers” will screw up their mental health even more than
Our generation has already done that. (Score:2)
Get started, you little snot-rockets. Clean up our mess! Lazy little no-good microbe factories. You don't deserve AR. Now, get to work!!
Brought to you by.... (Score:3)
The same generation that will literally burst into tears because a "griefer" killed them in an online game without asking first.... then write blog posts and post videos about how awful, traumatic and sexist it was was that the game was played as intended....then have their viewers harass the game publisher....even when a single player mode in the same universe is available. And that's just a space trading sim. Kowtowing to social justice posers and professional victims just results in shitty games.
If you can't handle a fully clothed avatar "touching" your fake character or doing the teabag dance without crying, you are too fragile for an open communications platform or video games. A command to block users is all that is needed. Anything more is just further down the slippery slope. They will never stop until everything is sterile, soulless, unfun and totally "inclusive".
Re: Brought to you by.... (Score:2)
I've dealt with a few "professional victims" in my life. They are some of the most toxic, self centered, shittiest people you could ever have around you. You just want to throw the fuckers off the top of a building.
Yeah, I'm more than happy to give them something real to cry about. Fuck them.
Wait.... (Score:2)
...so that means no more tea bagging?
This lack of foresight is kind of impressive. (Score:2)
So far with this "metaverse" nonsense and just off the top of my head, Facebook... sorry, "Meta"... have utterly failed to comprehend various mistakes made by, and lessons they should have learned from: Ultima Online, Everquest, Second Life, Habbo Hotel / 4chan, Eve Online, The Sims, Cyberpunk 2077, and of course Snow Crash itself.
If not for the fact that I am at this point convinced that the Zuck is not really a human being, but actually some sort of pod person or "male" blow-up doll; I would call this a g
So.. (Score:2)
How does virtual groping even work? (Score:2)
Damn you Facebook (Score:2)
Now people can never experience a virtual crotch grab from a 50 foot viking/caveman being.
Re:_More_ intense??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think people who choose to spend time in a cartoonish 3D version of IRC, talking to disembodied legless avatars of people and talking virtual selfies of themselves to post on their Facebook pages seem mentally fit to begin with?
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Well, depends. We are still Homo Ludens.
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What's your guess regarding Zuckerberg's answer?
Re: _More_ intense??? (Score:2)
Legless? (Score:2)
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More intense than reality? No. More intense than forums, message boards, chat programs, etc? Yeah, I can see that.
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Just rape, kill, punch anyone you want.
It's just a dream, right? Hell, make fake accounts and screw, murder, punch yourselves.
Re: Can I expose myself? (Score:2)