Israel Blocked Ukraine From Buying Pegasus Spyware, Fearing Russia's Anger (theguardian.com) 156
Israel blocked Ukraine from buying NSO Group's Pegasus spyware for fear that Russian officials would be angered by the sale of the sophisticated hacking tool to a regional foe, The Guardian reported Thursday, citing people familiar with the matter. From the report: The revelation, following a joint investigation by the Guardian and Washington Post, offers new insight into the way Israel's relationship with Russia has at times undermined Ukraine's offensive capabilities -- and contradicted US priorities. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has been critical of Israel's stance since Russia launched its full and bloody invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, saying in a recent address before members of Israel's Knesset that Israel would have to "give answers" on why it had not given weapons to Ukraine or applied sanctions on Russians.
People with direct knowledge of the matter say that, dating back to at least 2019, Ukrainian officials lobbied Israel to try to convince it to license the spyware tool for use by Ukraine. But those efforts were rebuffed and NSO Group, which is regulated by the Israeli ministry of defense, was never permitted to market or sell the company's spyware to Ukraine.
People with direct knowledge of the matter say that, dating back to at least 2019, Ukrainian officials lobbied Israel to try to convince it to license the spyware tool for use by Ukraine. But those efforts were rebuffed and NSO Group, which is regulated by the Israeli ministry of defense, was never permitted to market or sell the company's spyware to Ukraine.
Also their "Iron Dome" missile defense system (Score:3)
Israel also refused to sell Ukraine their Iron Dome missile defense system and blocked the US from sending it to Ukraine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news... [msn.com]
Also, Israel doesn't support the sanctions against Russia.
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Maybe it's time the US stop letting the tail wag the dog.
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But what about when Jeebus comes back? The vast majority of the batshit insane Xtians from this country believe that anybody that isn't friends with Israel will be ground to dust when their all-loving Gawd comes back to murder everyone who doesn't like him! We can't have that happen can we?!
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I live in a heavily Christian populated area and Archangel pretty much hit the nail on the head with his description of how they think. Most can't wait until the world ends, they're scary.
Re:Also their "Iron Dome" missile defense system (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's time the US stop letting the tail wag the dog.
I always though it was strange that the US goes without public healthcare, yet gives Israel enough money to fund their public healthcare.
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You can't give it out for free until somebody invents it. Most government plans come with some variation on restricting profits, which slows development, which murders people like continuously compounded interest, worse and worse over the decades, until millions die each year because stufd hasn't been invented yet.
Now go thumb in some irate response on your iPhone, which would not exist but for ludicrous profits.
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You can't give it out for free until somebody invents it. Most government plans come with some variation on restricting profits, which slows development, which murders people
The only murder here is being perpetrated by you, against the truth. Take the money away from Big Pharma and do the research in universities. We literally do not need the pharmaceutical companies.
Re: Also their "Iron Dome" missile defense system (Score:2)
Re: Also their "Iron Dome" missile defense system (Score:2)
What? I assume you mean that the technology is amazing, which it is. However access to that technology is reserved for the very, rich few.
You'd have to do something (Score:2)
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Israel is not your friend. Never has been, never will. When they deliberately attack [ussliberty.org] their closest ally, when they lie to their closest ally [politico.com], what hope does a fledgling democratic country have to ask for help when it's under unprecedented attack from its neighbor?
Stereotypes exist for a reason. All Israel is interested in is making money from Russia which is why it pleaded with the U.S. and European countries not to sanction Abramovich because he was the largest contributor [businessinsider.com] to the Holocaust Museum. After
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Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic. Nor is criticizing Saudi Arabia anti-Arab or criticizing Iran anti-Persian. If we watch more than just the US press we know that in Israel "Death to Arabs" is regularly chanted in the streets and Palestinians are attacked.
Settlers attack Palestinian homes as Israelis shout 'Death to Arabs' [dailysabah.com]
‘Death to Arabs’: Nationalist Jerusalem flag march held under ramped-up security [timesofisrael.com]
Extremists' Hatred Poisons Mahmoud and Morel's Wedding [haaretz.com]
Toward the end of the demonstration
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Sane people don't want war, the US military industry does.
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Israel has received much international condemnation for its treatment of Palestinians. They probably feel they have a right to take over Palestine just as Putin feels he has a right to take over Ukraine.
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Israel has received much international condemnation for its treatment of Palestinians. They probably feel they have a right to take over Palestine just as Putin feels he has a right to take over Ukraine.
Perhaps. But I'm not sure Israel's reasoning here.
Israel already has a plan for annexing the West Bank:
1) Kick Palestinians off the land for "security" reasons.
2) Do nothing as Settlers occupy the now vacant land.
3) Repeat.
Putin's play of annexing the whole thing at once isn't even practical for Israel since they don't have anywhere to put the Palestinians.
If they're looking for Russia as an ally... well their economy is in shambles and their military is a joke, so I don't know how useful Russia is as an al
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I don't see the upside for Israel for taking Russia's side in this.
This could be far fetched, but here's a possibility.
Many of the far right Republicans in the USA fully support Russia's invasion of the Ukraine
Many of the same far right Republicans support Israel because in their Fundamentalist Christian death cult, Israel is an important step in greasing the skids for their end time lust.
So if Israel joins the civilized world in punishing Russia for the Ukrainian invasion, Israel risks losing their most fanatical supporters in the USA. So Israel is on Russia's side
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They probably fear that if every one stands against Russia for the invasion then the rest of the world will be much more willing to stand against Israel with their annexing plan of the west bank. Both Taiwan and Palestine will try to raise awareness of their situation if all this pressure will result in Russia caving in.
Not quite... I don't see Israel's resistance to sanction doing anything to sway the rest of the world one way or another.
But you may be onto another scenario. If Israel does something to trigger mass sanctions then this ensures that Russia doesn't join in. Probably the same reason that China doesn't join in, not because they want to forge a separate alliance with Russia, but they want to keep their own future path to sanctions relief open.
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Israel may feel there is zero downside for them if they supported Russia cos US seems to always support Israel, no matter what they do.
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Israel has received much international condemnation for its treatment of Palestinians. They probably feel they have a right to take over Palestine just as Putin feels he has a right to take over Ukraine.
Yes, but they don't want to. They want to the people living there to flee first, like they did in what is now Israel. If they just annexed it with people and all, Israel wouldn't be a majority Jewish state anymore.
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Re: Also their "Iron Dome" missile defense system (Score:2)
I thought we were discussing Israel
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Possibly due to the Nazi issue in Ukraine.
What about the Nazis in Russia?
https://mobile.twitter.com/sam... [twitter.com]
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I like that all the Russian trolls are so obvious now. Real Americans who grew up during the Cold War make up most of the right wing. They fucking HATE Russia. So any "right winger" who shills for Russia now is obviously not American.
It's like when I catch "right wingers" saying Reagan wasn't really right wing. Okay Dmitri. Our right wing worships the guy. I know you hate him because he absolutely destroyed your country, but you aren't fooling anyone, and you'll never get Republicans to hate Reagan. Sorry.
R
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It amazes to me to see people like Tucker Carlson complain that Americans have been "trained to hate Putin". Like Carlson, I grew up during the Cold War. Of course we were trained to hate Russians in general, but during the '80s I remember discovering that the Russian people weren't all bad. They wanted to wear Levi's jeans and listen to rock and roll just like me. Like many Americans, I had high hopes for Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and it took years for me to form my current opinion of Putin
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Shut up OMBad. I see your sock puppet account name, I ignore your stupid blather. No one here listens to you. You are unimportant and powerless. Not that I read your post, but I bet you provided no sources for whatever made up crap you posted.
I sure hope someone in real life likes you. It would suck to be ignored by everyone online and in the real world too.
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Delusions of grandeur can be a sign of deeper underlying mental issues. I'd get that checked if I were you. You may, in fact, be able to claim disability.
Here's a quote for you "What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Provide me some facts, and I will refute them. No, your insane ramblings aren't facts. They are evidence free assertions, and no one needs to refute them because you haven't even tried to prove them.
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Oddly, I do enjoy sparring with you. It's nice to have an easy win now and then. I have never watched CNN and consider them the beginning of the end of real news. I used to watch MSNBC but they are far too corporate neoliberal. I still don't understand how you confuse me with a liberal. I think you do it to get a rise out of me, honestly. I fucking hate liberals almost as much as I hate all you traitorous conservatives who despise democracy and want authoritarian rule in America. Without them, you wouldn't
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Noone is saying anyone is categorically good. We are saying Ukraine is a sovereign state that was illegally invaded by Russia.
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My hope is that the individuals in Russia who support Putin get to watch their kids starve to death and then get put in a little wooden box. How about that? Ya like that? Fuck yourself. This is war, in case you hadn't fucking noticed.
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There are more nazis in Russia, including groups where Putin looks the other way. The nazi issue in Ukraine is a non-starter. It was bigger back when Russia invaded Donbas and the army was weaker and there was the Azov brigade of neo-nazi types being more effective. But 8 years later that brigade is much smaller and watered down. Also, the president of Ukraine is jewish, Ukraine has a long history of allowing Jews (from Catherine the great promoting the area) in where they were not allowed in Russia pr
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There are more nazis in Russia, including groups where Putin looks the other way. The nazi issue in Ukraine is a non-starter. It was bigger back when Russia invaded Donbas and the army was weaker and there was the Azov brigade of neo-nazi types being more effective. But 8 years later that brigade is much smaller and watered down. Also, the president of Ukraine is jewish, Ukraine has a long history of allowing Jews (from Catherine the great promoting the area) in where they were not allowed in Russia proper at the same time. It's just not a nazi country, it's absurd.
However note that Russia, and Putin, have a history of blaming everyone who disagrees with them of being nazis. It almost feels like Putin thinks the entire world, except fro Syria, North Korea, and Belarus, are secretly being run by nazis.
Look at WWII from the Russian perspective. The big story wasn't the Nazis killing Jews, it was Nazis breaking the non-aggression treaty and then carving a VERY bloody path towards Moscow before they got turned back.
From the Ukrainian perspective they'd just been subjected to a Soviet genocide [wikipedia.org]. So in come the Nazis to kick out the Russians, it's not hard to see why some of the Ukrainians were sympathetic to the other of two evils.
I don't think either the Russians or Ukrainians associate antisemitism with Naz
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In the context of foreign policy, it's pretty clear Ukraine doesn't have any real interest in having a nuclear arsenal, they just wanted protection against Russia, and were basically saying "if we c
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As for NATO being Russia's "proven" enemy, I don't believe NATO forces have ever directly engaged Russian forces on a battlefield.
NATO's purpose at the borders of the countries involved are there for one reason. To give a bit of buffer time before being killed in order to either allow cooler heads to prevail, or turn Russia into a se of molten glass if Russia persists.
The post WW2 annexation and puppet government expansion shows Russia's previous intentions, as well as Putin's present intentions. While I cannot be certain, I expect that Poland is next on his restoration of the glory days. That's why Poland is doing a lot to help th
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The Ukraine wanted Nukes
Ukraine had nukes, and gave them up. Stupid troll can't even troll good.
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You should be aware that we're laughing at you, not laughing with you.
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All that "evidence" but none that could even come close to satisfying a judge? You guys are dumber than mud.
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Ukraine literally gave up their nukes in exchange for security assurances from the US, the UK, and Russia. They might now feel like they should have kept them.
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Did they say something about how they wished they had nuclear weapons before or after they got invaded by Russians in Crimea and in the Donbas region and everyone who had given them security assurances for giving up their previous nuclear weapons hemmed and hawed and made excuses for not helping them? Most of those excuses being about how they had to appease Russia/Putin because they had nuclear weapons.
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Russia has legitimate complaints against Ukraine.
Legitimate complaints as in "you really need to do something about your nationalist militia problem"? Sure. Not so easy to argue that point to the Ukraine from the position of being the ones who provided said militias with the sway they have by illegally annexing Crimea. But yeah, those guys did plenty bad shit, and got away with too much of it. But they are still not the government of Ukraine.
Legitimate complaints as in "this entitles us to annex parts of your country and invade the rest? About as much a
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Blatant lies, all of them. And TL;DR: it's definitely Russia bad – Ukraine good. No two ways about it. Russia most emphatically has no rights or claims in any other countries than Russia and is engaging in illegal and imperialist warfare brought about by the rise of the state religion of rampant fascism (and hardcore Russian chauvinism) over the past 20 years.
Ukraine never wanted nukes, it actually gave them all away way back when. Ukraine wanting nukes is a Russian propaganda invention. They started
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Putin, in calling the Ukrainians "Nazis", has managed the rather ignoble feat of making nazis look like the good guys.
I never thought I'd see a Europe united behind the "nazis", but Putin managed to make it happen. Totally surreal.
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Israel has a significant population that emigrated from Russia, and native Russian speakers, and this likely affects their politics. Although the Russian Israelis I know are definitely no fan of Putin or even Russia, because most emigrated because life was terrible in the USSR and post USSR Russia.
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any number of western countries that have a sizeable right wing Jew hating problem, the USA and Germany among them
Haven't you been paying attention, since Obama was elected, right wing Christians see supporting Israel as an important issue. They can't stand the pro Muslim Democrats.
Obama generously financed a whole bunch of their military toy collection, not that that stopped Israel from biting the hand that fed it.
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Every American president does. The problem, as Republicans see it, is that Democrats also support human rights for Palestinians.
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The whole South of the Ukraine speaks predominantly Russian. But only Donetsk and Luhansk tried to break away from the Ukraine -- with much support from Russia. And ironically, the next large town to Donetsk, Mariupol, just gets shelled to rubble because it has the audacity to withstand the separatist demands from Donetsk to join their breakaway. And the predominantly Russian speaking town of
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You aren't banned from speaking or writing in Russian, but you can't use it in certain official capacities and your kids won't get to hear it in lessons. It reminded me of how at one time in Scotland Gaelic was put behind English in Scottish schools such that the practical effect was that Gaelic could no longer be practically spoken or taught regardless of the wording of the act/law/whatever it was. At the time I was t
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Russia has a list of demands.
As every tyrant would. A hostile foreign power invades your country, destroys your cities kills thousands of civilians and displaces millions. And they have a list of demands. How nice.
Ukraine disarm
This is suicidal.
They want some regions of Ukraine which is somewhat reasonable expect probably Donbas (which they want to be independent from Ukraine. - They want to reverse a law which has banned Russian language (a fair number of people in Ukraine speak Russian as primary language) - They want De-Nazification
They do hu? Well isn't that just special.
Putin should know all about Nazis. Nazis and USSR were on the same side until Hitler threw a tantrum over Stalin asking for too many war spoils and responded by attacking his sorry little ass.
Anyone who talks about Nazis and "Russian Speaking" as pretext for war s
Legitimate concerns (Score:2)
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Aren't they getting starstreak MANPADs now? Those are pretty up to date and not readily available.
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The level of corruption is vastly less than in Russia. Ukraine did have a corruption problem, which they started fixing with the ouster of Putin's lapdog. One of the reasons Putin is invading Ukraine is because he wants to re-instate the corruption by putting his own people in charge.
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It ended up in the hands of the United Arab Emirates and probably Saudi Arabia as well not to mention all the other countries we don't know about some of which were spying on our NATO allies and no doubt Americans as well.
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Given the level of corruption in Ukraine, this technology may end up in the hands of Iran or worse.
Well, go ask Syria how well things are getting on and how lucky they are that Iran can't hack them. The craters where their homes used to be will light up with happy faces.
Fuck's sake.
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Given the level of corruption in Ukraine, this technology may end up in the hands of Iran or worse. That's why Ukraine is only getting older weapons that are readily available on secondary markets.
Didn't the US just send them a bunch of switchblade drone/missile units that are fairly cutting edge? Also my impression is because the entire Ukrainian military was trained largely on russian/soviet hardware, and this isn't exactly the environment you want to train and do integration tests in, it's better to provide older hardware to them that they know how to use versus whole new weapons systems. Things like javelin missiles and other point and click weapons being a bit of an exception.
Can you say.... (Score:2)
I knew you could.
No surprise there (Score:2)
A ridiculous assertion, but .... (Score:2)
I stick to the libertarian view I've always held. It's best for nations not to get involved in wars that aren't being waged directly against them. The people who wish to fight for their freedom should do so, and others can come to their aid indirectly if they wish. But that's really the extent of it. America always tries to play the role of world policeman and we're not very good at it. Lots of attempts to let one ruler rise to power in place of another in a gamble it will make things better, and it tends
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I stick to the libertarian view I've always held. It's best for nations not to get involved in wars that aren't being waged directly against them.
That's not how it works at all. Sometimes you have to get involved, sometimes you don't, it depends on who's winning and what their next move is likely to be.
Also, whether you have to get involved or not, sometimes it's the right thing to do, like to prevent a genocide.
I grow tired of the accusations that Israel is intentionally harming civilians with its warfare, etc.
That's stupid, because Israel is intentionally harming civilians [vox.com]. You can say they've been provoked, and there is some truth to that, but that doesn't change the fact. (And that argument is discussed in the article I linked.)
Every time I ever read an accurate story of what's happening over there, it amounts to the Arabs happily shelling Israel's schools, churches, and pretty much anything else they happen to hit. Israel's retaliation is much more calculated.
Most attacks do
re: not how it works (Score:2)
I disagree.... It absolutely CAN work the way I'm suggesting! The only reason you say it doesn't is because you're assuming past history of nations getting involved because "We're allies!" is some sort of requirement.
I can't morally justify a government sending its own citizens off to their own possible/likely death because it wants to involve itself in a war between other nations.
If you likened it to a comparable scenario at the local level? It would be like the local TV news station finding out a drunk
Why this libertarian approach fails (Score:2)
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With International trade though, you always have the situation where SOME nations are concerned about the concept of a "level playing field" while others don't care as long as they can maximize their export sales.
This doesn't negate libertarian concepts as "incorrect" or "invalid" at all. It just shows the problems you're bound to have if you try to embrace a global economy while not all of the participants have the same set of values.
I'd argue that in the Ukraine situation, you're only seeing so many big
This Is What Slashdot Wanted (Score:2)
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Everyone or no should should have it. In a world where Russia has it, Ukraine should definitely have it. I would rejoice if NSO group said they were no longer going to provide it to anyone, and were planning to vanish up their own arseholes. Their heads are already in there, so all they have to do is keep going.
If you're American, Israel is not your friend (Score:4, Interesting)
Israel's far right government has proved over and over again it is no friend to the United States. As a partner on the world stage, it is almost as poisonous, murderous and evil as America's other Middle East ally, Saudi Arabia. The main difference between the two is that Israel is a huge financial drain on the American taxpayer; Saudi Arabia, not so much.
If America's bought-and-paid-for politicians (in BOTH parties) could just once find the courage and decency to do what's best for the country instead of themselves, they'd wean the US off fossil fuels, pull out of the Middle East, and let the hatemongers there have the war they've always wanted...for once without using America's blood and treasure to pay the butcher's bill.
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The main difference between the two is that Israel is a huge financial drain on the American taxpayer; Saudi Arabia, not so much.
The Saudis lobby to keep us on oil. That's not only a huge financial drain, it's an unsustainable activity that will turn the whole world into a desert. There are no heroes in this story.
The US was the muscle behind the decision to install Israel. The brains were originally British, but they backed off from the plan and we picked it up and ran with it instead. The plan was obviously to use Israel to suppress Islamic interests. If we left it now and let the situation resolve itself, it would probably so do in nuclear fire.
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No argument from me about Saudi lobbying, my friend. I wouldn't put them in first place, though, as far as fossil fuel interests that control the US government. Right now, I'd give that honour to the surviving Koch brother, closely followed by every other international fossil fuel corporation. I realize this involves some overlap with the Saudi government, but the whole sector's control of US politicians is far greater, and goes back much further than Saudi Arabia's early 1930s "birth".
By the way, I'm al
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You're either a liar or a fool. Perhaps both.
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You're either a liar or a fool. Perhaps both.
Is this some gut feeling or are you able to back up this sentiment with a story about an American who was mistreated or attacked in Israel? (assuming the attacker was not one of your "Palestinian" darlings of course.)
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Is there anything else I can help you with? Perhaps another history lesson?
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Seriously, is that the best you've got? Something that happened 55 years ago?!
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It's worth remembering. But even if you put it to one side, Israel may be something more dangerous than a foe: He's that buddy that you know when he goes out drinking, he's inevitably going to run his mouth and get into a fight and drag you into it. But for some reason, we just keep buying him weapons and giving him money for booze.
They lead us around by the nose. I'm all for us honoring our longstanding commitment to defend Israel. But... when we defend Germany (and European neighbors from our base there),
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There's that American girl the Israeli soldier ran down with his bulldozer while they were flattening Palestinian homes, but whatever.
You asked. I answered. Now you look like an idiot, because you don't even know your own country's history. I'd say my work here is done. In your twisted little mind, there's a statute of limitations on murder?
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Yeah, you just keep it up with that "no true Scotsman" logical fallacy. Do you want to go back to your original claim, or do you believe everybody here is too lazy or stupid to read back up the thread to your original comment?
You are not an honest person. Fuck off.
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You're wrong. And an asshole.
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Still waiting to hear a story of an American who was hurt, in Israel (Gaza is not in Israel), and not by an Arab and not as part of some horrible wartime incident. You disputed a claim that Americans are as safe in Israel as a local citizen would be; back it up with something real.
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You asked, I answered. Now you're trying to weasel out by redefining the question you asked.
Fuck off troll. Go blow Netanyahu again.
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No. My original question asked, and I quote, for a story about an American who was mistreated or attacked in Israel. You responded with one event that happened in international waters and one that happened in Gaza. I did not redefine the question, and if there's one of us who's being a fucking troll it's not me.
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Does the word "bullshit" mean anything to you?
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Hmm, compared to Russia, which had been waging war before US even existed? Ask the Poles who they think is more aggressive?
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That's easy. Russia has indeed been around for a long time. However, the track record of both the United States and Israel, during the relatively short period they've been around, is without question more aggressive.
I'm always amazed at how little a significant number of Americans know about their own history.
Stay Classy (Score:2)
Israel is what happens when you let religion dominate your thinking to the exclusion of all logic. They're racist assholes who are just as bad as anyone the U.S. has had issue with in the past....we just let them do whatever they want because otherwise Gawd will hate us. (Look it up before you flame me, k? There are a TON of 'end times' Xtians in the Government, they would deep throat Israel until the end of the world just because of that.)
Personally I think it's spot on that we condemn one 'bad actor' whil
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They're racist assholes
Maybe, but much less so than their neighbors. Israel actually has 1.6 million Muslims living in the country, and a minority but active Muslim political party.
Number of Jews living in Jordan? 0. ...
Number of Jews living in Egypt? 0.
Number Jews living in Iran? 0.
Hating a group of people that have consistently tried to wipe you off the face of the earth isn't racism.
Cowards. (Score:2)
n/m
Oh, so much hypocrisy. (Score:2)
Interestingly Israel is evil when it sells Pegasus spyware, and now it's evil for not selling it. And who is Israel supposed to sell it to? Ukraine, a country that has voted against Israel in every UN resolution in recent history? Not exactly allies. Israel has a lot to lose getting involved in a war against Russia, especially considering the fact that Russia literally has a military presence bordering Israel (in Syria).
Of course while Israel does send humanitarian aid to Ukraine and even accepts refugees,
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Wow. I had to read to the second to the last comment here to find somebody with a fucking clue. Congrats You're better than the /.tards.
The Israeli people buy and large think Putin is a piece of shit and would love to see Russia scampering off with its tail between it's legs.
However, Lebanon and Syria are packed with Hezbollah rockets aimed at Israel. Russia is the trailer park trash meth head holding the leash on those mongrels. Russia has allowed Israel to attack within Syria. Israel doesn't want to
So much for what is right. (Score:2)
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Or maybe you're ignorant, should stop guessing, and should go learn a thing or two about history and politics before spouting off?
And? (Score:2)
Is Ukraine actually God now?
Are any and all geopolitical decisions that were ever made, that didn't put Ukraine first in all things, now heresy?
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Are any and all geopolitical decisions that were ever made, that didn't put Ukraine first in all things, now heresy?
Not necessarily, but the cold war is definitely back on. With Russia and very possibly China. Nations that have tried to remain "neutral" for various reasons are about to have to make a pretty painful choice: East or West. Israel and India are probably the two that will gnash their teeth the most at the prospect.
Relations with Russia have been souring for years, with real cracks forming when they decided to basically fight a proxy war against the US coalition in Syria. It got papered over a bit when Tru
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I can't imagine a reason why the Jews of the world would want to defend themselves.
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Has your country intervened in this war? If not, shut up.