How Ukraine's IT Army is Using Clearview AI's Face-Scanning Software (msn.com) 88
Ukrainian officials "have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow's invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families," reports the Washington Post.
Ukraine's IT Army (taking direction from Ukraine's government) "says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses." The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war. But some military and technology analysts worry that the strategy could backfire, inflaming anger over a shock campaign directed at mothers who may be thousands of miles from the drivers of the Kremlin's war machine.
The West's solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers' parents, she said, is "classic psychological warfare" and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts. "If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, 'Oh, my God, that's barbaric,' " she said. "And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: 'Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?' "
Clearview AI's chief executive, Hoan Ton-That, told The Washington Post that more than 340 officials across five Ukrainian government agencies now can use its tool to run facial recognition searches whenever they want, free of charge. Clearview employees now hold weekly, sometimes daily, training calls over Zoom with new police and military officials looking to gain access. Ton-That recounted several "'oh, wow' moments" as the Ukrainians witnessed how much data — including family photos, social media posts and relationship details — they could gather from a single cadaver scan.
Some of them are using Clearview's mobile app to scan faces while on the battlefield, he said. Others have logged in for training while stationed at a checkpoint or out on patrol, the night sky visible behind their faces. "They're so enthusiastic," Ton-That said. "Their energy is really high. They say they're going to win, every call...."
About 10% of Clearview's database came from Russia's biggest social network, the Post learns from Clearview's chief executive, ""making it a potentially useful tool for battlefield scans." Ukrainian agencies, Ton-That said, have used the app to confirm the identities of people at military checkpoints and to check whether a Ukrainian is a possible Russian infiltrator or saboteur. He argued that the system could deter Russian soldiers from committing war crimes, for fear of being identified, and said the Ukrainians are considering using the tool to verify the identities of Ukrainian refugees and their hosts as they flee for safety.... Beyond scanning corpses, Ukraine also is using facial recognition to identify Russian soldiers caught on camera looting Ukrainian homes and storefronts, an official with Ukraine's Digital Transformation Ministry told The Post. Mykhailo Fedorov, the head of that ministry, this month shared on Twitter and Instagram the name, hometown and personal photo of a man he said was recorded shipping hundreds of pounds of looted clothes from a Belarus post office to his home in eastern Russia. "Our technology will find all of them," he wrote.
The article asks what happens if software makes a mistake in its identification — but Clearview's chief executive argues their tool is accurate Ton-That said the company's sole ambition is to help defend a besieged country. But he also acknowledged the war has helped provide a "good example for other parts of the U.S. government to see how these use cases work."
"This is a new war," he said. And the Ukrainians are "very creative with what they've been able to do."
Thanks to Slashdot readers fbobraga and schwit1 for submitting the article.
Ukraine's IT Army (taking direction from Ukraine's government) "says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses." The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war. But some military and technology analysts worry that the strategy could backfire, inflaming anger over a shock campaign directed at mothers who may be thousands of miles from the drivers of the Kremlin's war machine.
The West's solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers' parents, she said, is "classic psychological warfare" and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts. "If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, 'Oh, my God, that's barbaric,' " she said. "And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: 'Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?' "
Clearview AI's chief executive, Hoan Ton-That, told The Washington Post that more than 340 officials across five Ukrainian government agencies now can use its tool to run facial recognition searches whenever they want, free of charge. Clearview employees now hold weekly, sometimes daily, training calls over Zoom with new police and military officials looking to gain access. Ton-That recounted several "'oh, wow' moments" as the Ukrainians witnessed how much data — including family photos, social media posts and relationship details — they could gather from a single cadaver scan.
Some of them are using Clearview's mobile app to scan faces while on the battlefield, he said. Others have logged in for training while stationed at a checkpoint or out on patrol, the night sky visible behind their faces. "They're so enthusiastic," Ton-That said. "Their energy is really high. They say they're going to win, every call...."
About 10% of Clearview's database came from Russia's biggest social network, the Post learns from Clearview's chief executive, ""making it a potentially useful tool for battlefield scans." Ukrainian agencies, Ton-That said, have used the app to confirm the identities of people at military checkpoints and to check whether a Ukrainian is a possible Russian infiltrator or saboteur. He argued that the system could deter Russian soldiers from committing war crimes, for fear of being identified, and said the Ukrainians are considering using the tool to verify the identities of Ukrainian refugees and their hosts as they flee for safety.... Beyond scanning corpses, Ukraine also is using facial recognition to identify Russian soldiers caught on camera looting Ukrainian homes and storefronts, an official with Ukraine's Digital Transformation Ministry told The Post. Mykhailo Fedorov, the head of that ministry, this month shared on Twitter and Instagram the name, hometown and personal photo of a man he said was recorded shipping hundreds of pounds of looted clothes from a Belarus post office to his home in eastern Russia. "Our technology will find all of them," he wrote.
The article asks what happens if software makes a mistake in its identification — but Clearview's chief executive argues their tool is accurate Ton-That said the company's sole ambition is to help defend a besieged country. But he also acknowledged the war has helped provide a "good example for other parts of the U.S. government to see how these use cases work."
"This is a new war," he said. And the Ukrainians are "very creative with what they've been able to do."
Thanks to Slashdot readers fbobraga and schwit1 for submitting the article.
Re: Bucha (Score:1)
Re:Bucha (Score:5, Insightful)
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Re: (Score:1)
i guess if you don't know about the history of false flag contrived 'war crimes' in Syria and at other times throughout history it might seem idiotic.
these days, it should be expected.
Re:War Crimes (Score:5, Insightful)
War crimes makes the world a far more dangerous place.
Then the russians should probably stop their war crimes campaign in Ukraine.
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It's just the devil talking [twitter.com].
Re:War Crimes (Score:5, Informative)
Russian forces to surrender in battle when they think capture will equate to torture. Wise up.
It likely doesn't even occur to the Russian forces that there's a different way so it wouldn't make any difference. The Russians in Afghanistan only stopped torturing their prisoners (and being tortured in return by the Mujahideen) when the CIA intervened to try to get both sides to stop. Imagine a force so savage that even the CIA feels the need to try to improve the humanitarian situation. Look at recent videos out of Syria - search for the Wagner Group tourturing a captive - or perhaps better don't. These are people straight out of the Russian special forces and with a revolving door back and forward between official and unofficial conflicts. Have a look at what was done to Grozny. If the Russian Army doesn't have any other people to torture they start torturing their own [wikipedia.org]. The only possible way to stop the Russian army torturing is to destroy it.
What's most terrible about this is that individual Russians quite often stand up against this. There are plenty of decent people there. However when they do that they get shot, if they are lucky. Currently the Russian-Nazi Zwastika (Z) symbol is being painted on the doors of those heros in Russia that try to stand up against this.
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Are you being paid in rubles? Once the bottom falls out the ruble is going to inflate like Zimbabwe dollars.
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Fun fact: I'm angry at myself for not buying a lot of Rubles a few weeks back when it was in freefall, because it's now stronger than it was before the war started (at least against my currency, not sure about the US$ exchange rate).
Russia has not yet given up control over its currency, so it has a couple ways to stabilize it and it's using them. Prices within Russia have gone up for everything that's imported, but otherwise, as far as I'm hearing from personal contacts, things are largely back to normal.
We
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We are hurting our own economy more with these sanctions than we are hurting Russia.
Unless it's a Russian that happens to own a billion dollar boat.
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The superyachts are impounded.
That doesn't mean they don't own them anymore. At the moment, they have temporarily lost access to them. I wonder who's paying the crew and the mooring fees. Do you know?
It's a grandiose gesture that unlike the freezing of bank accounts produces new-worthy pictures. But has it accomplished anything?
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That doesn't mean they don't own them anymore
If they owned them, then they don't own them anymore. The only way they will get out of impoundment is if they don't actually own them.
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If they owned them, then they don't own them anymore. The only way they will get out of impoundment is if they don't actually own them.
For the moment. Once this has all blown over, these little nuissances will be resolved.
Unless you really think that the rules apply to the super-rich as well.
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Unless you really think that the rules apply to the super-rich as well.
You aren't super rich if your money is in western banks and you get sanctioned. You aren't super rich if your money is in Russian banks, either, but for a different reason.
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They have their wealth diversified, of course. Some in the west, some in Russia, some in other countries.
Do you even realize that the west is largely isolated with the sanctions? No south-american, african and very few asian countries are joining.
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Yeah? How many Russian billionaires showed up in the Panama Papers?
In any case, there is no question that the sanctions are hurting the Russian economy. It's not just billionaire boats.
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Yeah? How many Russian billionaires showed up in the Panama Papers?
In any case, there is no question that the sanctions are hurting Russia. And more come each week. In the coming month, expect to see sanctions that are more targeted at the average Russian, since it has become apparent that they support the war, too.
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Yeah? How many Russian billionaires showed up in the Panama Papers?
Funny, last time that came up it was used as an argument that the leak was some evil Russian plot. :-)
In any case, there is no question that the sanctions are hurting Russia.
They do.
They also hurt Europe. Considerably. Some German industry association published a letter recently basically saying that if they also embargo oil and gas, the lights will go out and a considerable part of factories in branches such as the chemical industry will close.
In the coming month, expect to see sanctions that are more targeted at the average Russian, since it has become apparent that they support the war, too.
So far, the media can't seem to decide whether to paint the average Russian as an evil child-eating satanist who is all for the war and
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So far, the media can't seem to decide whether to paint the average Russian as an evil child-eating satanist
No, according to Russia, Ukrainians are satanists [twitter.com]. In fact, both of those things can be true: Russians are victims of propaganda, but also responsible for what's going on. Just like Trump voters.
In any case, none of that is going to affect the war or is even intended to affect the war. It is intended to weaken Russia, bring Europe back into dependency to the USA and thus give America another decade or two of enjoying prosperity at the cost of others.
The intent of the war was to strengthen Russia, to hold back the threat of NATO, and bring Ukraine under the control of Russia. None of those aims will be met.
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No, according to Russia, Ukrainians are satanists.
Didn't know about that one. Amazing. That's basically Russian Fox News. Thanks for the link.
In fact, both of those things can be true: Russians are victims of propaganda, but also responsible for what's going on. Just like Trump voters.
That's a good point there. You are right, it's not as simple as "hey, Russians get told lies, they're all innocent victims". It is more complex than that.
The intent of the war was to strengthen Russia, to hold back the threat of NATO, and bring Ukraine under the control of Russia. None of those aims will be met.
Let's wait until it's over before we judge that. My prediction is that NATO will be held back. Ukraine will not end up joining NATO. It will either be split up or a Neutrality solution with UN guarantees will be found. Honestly, I think it'll be split up just like K
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Let's wait until it's over before we judge that. My prediction is that NATO will be held back. Ukraine will not end up joining NATO. It will either be split up or a Neutrality solution with UN guarantees will be found. Honestly, I think it'll be split up just like Korea or Vietnam were.
The United States and NATO will give Ukraine more and more military support until Ukraine is victorious. Russia needs a decisive victory in the next week or so, otherwise the heavy weaponry starting to come into Ukraine will become too difficult for them to overcome.
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Billions of dollars of factories? Russians lost billions of dollars of yachts alone.
If you think Russia is not being hurt by the sanctions, you are reading the wrong news sources.
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Fun fact: I'm angry at myself for not buying a lot of Rubles a few weeks back when it was in freefall, because it's now stronger than it was before the war started (at least against my currency, not sure about the US$ exchange rate).
Russia has not yet given up control over its currency, so it has a couple ways to stabilize it and it's using them. Prices within Russia have gone up for everything that's imported, but otherwise, as far as I'm hearing from personal contacts, things are largely back to normal.
We are hurting our own economy more with these sanctions than we are hurting Russia.
Funny, my reaction to the invasion was to donate money to Ukraine.
Your reaction is regret you didn't make a quick buck propping up the Russian economy.
I think we have very different priorities in life.
Re: War Crimes (Score:2)
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Your reaction is regret you didn't make a quick buck propping up the Russian economy.
Lol. Because a thousand bucks or so would make a difference to a country's economy.
Maybe you should have a look at the billionaires who really profit from every crisis? We don't yet know about this one, but we do know who doubled their net worth thanks to Corona. Once this is over there will be winners, too.
my reaction to the invasion was to donate money to Ukraine.
The second most corrupt country in the world is sure to put it to good use. Rofl.
I'm quite sure the Ukrainian oligarchs are not the losers in this war, and a good part of the money now sent there ends up
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"Lol. Because a thousand bucks or so would make a difference to a country's economy."
Blood money is blood money. Get some fucking morals you jackass.
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Which blood money? Step out of your propaganda bubble.
Trade is one of the strongest forces for peace we have in the world. All this cutting of trade and sanctions and banking embargo and whatever is pure escalation bullshit. It's crazy that they've successfully sold their geopolitical games as something different.
The purpose of this economic warfare isn't to bring peace to Ukraine. The german foreign minister is an inexperienced newcomer and blabbed it out clearly: "I hope this will destroy Russia's economy
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You're nothing but a delusional child. Escalation?...sure, that's exactly what Europe wants, and why they've sanctioned Russia, right?...you fucking moron.
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sure, that's exactly what Europe wants, and why they've sanctioned Russia, right?
No, it's what the USA wants, who stands to be the big winner of this all. Suddenly Europe is buying liquid gas at insane prices from them, Russia is isolated and losing manpower and material, many NATO members have vowed to raise their military expenditures (something the US has been asking for years), and the list goes on.
It's a strange coincidence that so many things that the US has been working towards for years now suddenly materialize. Well played. Opportunity well used.
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The purpose of this economic warfare isn't to bring peace to Ukraine. The german foreign minister is an inexperienced newcomer and blabbed it out clearly: "I hope this will destroy Russia's economy." - this is an economic war that's been going on for some years, the Ukraine invasion just gave a good excuse to dial it to 11.
The Russian war against Ukraine has been going on since 2014, if the previous sanctions were done properly we wouldn't be having this new one.
And of course the goal is to destroy Russia's economy because destroying their economy will put political pressure on Putin to stop the war and maybe even hurt Putin's ability to keep the army supplied.
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Refugees (Score:4, Insightful)
Hopefully Clearview doesnt spoil this for the Soldiers. If they cant get to Europe they may just decide to stay in their unit and fight.
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At this rate Ukraine should just invade Moscow.
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There's way too much racism/prejudice about refugees... Heard that several European countries and USA, for example, is accepting several Ukranian refugees but not accepting muslin refugees or refugees from other places (like Africa or Latin America)
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If I was a Russian conscript in Ukraine I would just take off my uniform, put civlian clothes and go to the border with EU and continue on for a god life in the EU.
I don't think you can do that without identification, passport, papers, ...
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Most if Europe, with the exception of the UK, is taking a very permissive attitude to Ukrainian refugees. Eventually they will want identification, but even then Russian deserters could likely claim asylum. The main issue would be if they were involved in war crimes.
Welcome Russian deserters (Score:2)
even then Russian deserters could likely claim asylum. The main issue would be if they were involved in war crimes.
We should be actively advertising that Russian deserters are welcome in the West. Put down your gun and come be part of the free world, or stay and die for something you don't even understand.
The major obstacle for most would probably be fear for the safety of their families back home, which is admittedly a problem for people fleeing any shithole dictatorship.
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I think at one point the Ukraine was offering Russian soldiers something close to a year's salary for just turning themselves in and handing over their weapon.... although I wouldn't expect people with families back home to be able to take advantage of that without risking the FSB "disappearing" the lot of them.
Although if someone was an orphan, it would be a pretty tempting offer to just decide to up and become a Ukrainian knowing you'd have enough money to make a fresh start of it (if you could find a job
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If I was a Russian conscript in Ukraine I would just take off my uniform, put civlian clothes
No you wouldn't. You're an armchair soldier sitting in the comfort of mommy's basement, fantasizing about what heroic acts you would do if you were in a war zone with shells flying over your head.
The honest truth is that most likely you have no fucking clue what you would actually do in such a situation and your panic and confusion would be overriden by your training and you'd do exactly what you're told because that's how the friggin military works, everywhere in the world.
If ... (Score:2)
If I was a Russian conscript in Ukraine I would just take off my uniform, put civlian clothes and go to the border with EU and continue on for a god life in the EU. Ukrainian refugees are being treated very well by the West better than life at home for a Russian poor enough to not being able to buy out of conscription.
I'm sure you would do exactly what you say
IF ...
You knew the truth of what was going on and hadn't completely bought into the Russian governments propaganda about the Ukraaine being under the control of modern day Nazis and therefor a threat to Russia and you really believed you were protecting your home and family.
IF ...
You didn't have family the would be punished when/if your desertion became known
Try not to fall into the trap of assuming everyone knows what you do and has access to your sources of inform
Re: Refugees (Score:2)
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I was just communicating with a Russian developer I deal with now and again.
The outbreak of war finally made him decide to leave Russia, not an easy decision as he has spent his whole life there, but as it was looking more and more like 1930's Germany, he left. Anyways, he is now in Turkey with various problems, I'll quote him,
A few days ago I finally left Russia and plan to stay in Turkey for a while. Currently I’m a person with no home and no residence permit anywhere but Russia (where I’m not going to get back) — and this exposes a huge number of every day problems, starting from inability to have a bank account (and therefore bank cards) to prohibition to stay in a country for more than three months in a row (so I need to move between countries until I get a permit). So until this is solved somehow, my life situation remains volatile and my resources are very limited (in addition to limitations that were already there before the war).
It's a problem and it seems to me the West should also be doing more for the average Russian dissident.
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Someone blamed it on Silicon Valley?! You are the only speaking it...
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It's not a war. There's been no formal declaration of war, nor was there any aggression from the Ukraine prior to the beginning of the "special operation".
It's especially not a war because if it were a "war" there would actually be rules that would need to be followed lest the leadership be asked to explain themselves before the ICC in The Hague. I fully expect that some will try to weasel out of war crimes charges with the excuse that it wasn't actually a war so whatever they were doing was just fine.
But
Re: It's a fucking war you worthless turd (Score:2)
Psychological warfare? (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, that whole chain of reasoning is madness. The Ukraine doesn't want to be in the war at all. The far simpler explanation is that if you had a son or daughter who had been conscripted into an army against their will and sent off on a "special operation" and they were killed, you'd want to know, particularly since your government isn't likely to bother to tell you the truth for weeks, months, or ever.
Notifying parents isn't a war tactic, it's a humanitarian mercy. ...and no, if Russia were doing this and sending the information to Ukranian mothers I would feel no different about it if the Ukraine were the ones who had invaded Russia.
That argument is not some "thought experiment", it's a lack of thought experiment.
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From the article it sounds like they're sending pictures of the bodies to the families. That's just cruel.
Better to give them a decent burial, then send the families a condolences message and details of where their son/daughter is buried. Being kind to the families would be far more effective in creating dissent than being needlessly cruel. Showing that the enemy is more civilised than their own government.
Just my thoughts,
Keith.
Re:Psychological warfare? (Score:5, Insightful)
Better to give them a decent burial, then send the families a condolences message and details of where their son/daughter is buried.
Unfortunately, Russia's internal propaganda has created an environment where that wouldn't actually work.
Those people who make phone calls (or send texts) to random Russians often get into arguments with them, because many Russians refuse to believe their army is doing anything but "liberating Nazi-oppressed Ukranians". Anyone contacting them and claiming "we're the Ukrainian government, I'm sorry but your son was killed by our soldiers while invading our country" would likely be dismissed as lying agents of the Evil West.
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It's not about making political points directly, I'm more subtle than that.
Rather than starting a shouting match, just send them an e-mail offering condolences because their son/daughter was killied in fighting in Ukraine, and advising them where he was buried. Something along the lines of "We are very sorry to inform you that we believe your son [name] was killed in fighting at [village/town/city] in Ukraine. We have arranged for his body to be interred at [detailed location]. We share your sorrow at the
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Better to give them a decent burial, then send the families a condolences message and details of where their son/daughter is buried.
Given Russia propaganda, some Russians will not believe the Ukrainians' words that someone was killed. They would want proof.
Being kind to the families would be far more effective in creating dissent than being needlessly cruel. Showing that the enemy is more civilised than their own government.
Given the rumors where the troops were sent into combat with little notice, I would not put it past Russia to not let the families know that their family member was killed and especially in Ukraine.
"No, your son is on assignment in faraway Siberia for six months [Six months later] Sorry your son went missing in Siberia."
Training Accidents (Score:2)
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Without a picture there's literally no way at all to distinguish the information from really gruesome propaganda. It sucks they'll have to see a picture of their deceased son, but it's not like soldiers families in the past (even for the US) haven't been misinformed about whether or not their offspring was dead long before the expected return home, or even sometimes told their child was dead when they were still quite alive. This gives families some way to be sure there wasn't a paperwork foulup.
The probl
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No matter what, showing someone gory images of their family members killed by you is not going to paint you in a good light. Even if you were completely justified, a civilized response is to express regret. Gloating over the dead make you the opposite. At best they grieve. At worst they want revenge.
There were plenty of photos and videos of American soldiers dying in the Vietnam war. But what changed America's opinion on the war was imagery of American soldiers indiscriminately killing Vietnamese villagers.
Re: Psychological warfare? (Score:2)
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This is a kindness to the Russian family and beneficial to justice if handled diplomatically.
Send the picture with a sympathetic message. "We are so sorry that so many have suffered, etc" -- "We will try to keep you informed " "Due to the complete destruction of our city we are unable to " "We hope Mr Putin will stop this attack and give us time to bury the dead with dignity " etc.
I'm sure someone can find better words than these, but the idea is to connect ordinary citizens around the world in a protest of
Wut (Score:3)
> The West's solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers' parents, she said, is "classic psychological warfare" and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.
Russian citizens are being lied to about the scope of the engagement, everything is clouded in secrecy. Russia military was bringing mobile cremation units ffs. The parents would have zero idea of what happened to their children if they weren't notified by Ukraine. Russia did the same thing in their Afghanistan adventures; burials were in secret, if you were a high ranking party member maybe you get to attend your childs funeral.
My view of Clearview aside, I think this is more of a service than anything, with dual purpose. Inform the parents of what happened to their children, and expose the lies of a dictator invading a peaceful sovereign nation. Is it traumatic for the parents? Of course. Better than being lied to though. I'd want to know how my kid died and how they were just left behind like an animal by my country's military.
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Russian citizens are being lied to about the scope of the engagement,
And we are not?
I have relatives who live in Russia. They are well aware of what's going on. In fact, some news I've heard through them first (ok, I'm not glued to the TV, so they may have been available in our news at the same time).
Russia military was bringing mobile cremation units ffs.
That's not as rare or unheard of as you think. Heck, you can order these things on Alibaba:
https://www.alibaba.com/produc... [alibaba.com]
Also, the specific footage about that is actually fake: https://www.france24.com/en/tv... [france24.com] - AFAIK we do not at this time have reliable information whether
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AFAIK we do not at this time have reliable information whether or not they're using them in Ukraine.
We do have specific evidence that Russia is committing atrocities in Ukraine. It's not a "peace" mission.
And it's not all that surprising: it's why they brought the Chechnyans into the country in the first place: to scare the population.
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If there was only a "barely recognizable picture" available to be sent, Clearview wouldn't be able to match it to a person and there wouldn't be anywhere to send it, so... there's not going to be any "barely recognizable gore pictures" in this. If anything the bodies are probably being sponged clean and a good head shot taken and that's the image being used for both identification and notification.
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If anything the bodies are probably being sponged clean and a good head shot taken and that's the image being used for both identification and notification.
Do you have any evidence for that claim or is it wishful thinking? Because articles on this topic clearly say things like "abandoned corpses" and "lying in the street".
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Russian citizens are being lied to about the scope of the engagement,
And we are not?
I have relatives who live in Russia. They are well aware of what's going on. In fact, some news I've heard through them first (ok, I'm not glued to the TV, so they may have been available in our news at the same time).
There's a difference between having a lot of out-of-context facts and actually having a clear understanding of what's going on.
Also, the specific footage about that is actually fake: https://www.france24.com/en/tv... [france24.com] - AFAIK we do not at this time have reliable information whether or not they're using them in Ukraine.
The footage sure, but eyewitness accounts are showing up [go.com]. And to be honest, I haven't heard a lot of BS from the Ukrainian side. In fact, after the Ukrainians hit and sank the Moskva with two missiles some of the initial response from the Ukrainian government was that there weren't able to confirm the missile hits. Russia on the other hand still seems to be blaming things on a myste
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There's a difference between having a lot of out-of-context facts and actually having a clear understanding of what's going on.
Do you have objective evidence for your claim that your understanding is clearer or more truthful than that of someone in Russia?
Because we are being lied to just the same and we get only a partial picture ourselves.
And to be honest, I haven't heard a lot of BS from the Ukrainian side.
That's because our media is working hard to debunk everything Russia says, but doing the same to Ukraine would be considered not being sympathetic to a poor country defending itself.
Some BS from Ukrainian side: Casualty numbers in the early days (exaggerated by a factor of 10 even according to e
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There's a difference between having a lot of out-of-context facts and actually having a clear understanding of what's going on.
Do you have objective evidence for your claim that your understanding is clearer or more truthful than that of someone in Russia?
Because we are being lied to just the same and we get only a partial picture ourselves.
So what do they think happened in Bucha?
And to be honest, I haven't heard a lot of BS from the Ukrainian side.
That's because our media is working hard to debunk everything Russia says, but doing the same to Ukraine would be considered not being sympathetic to a poor country defending itself.
Some BS from Ukrainian side: Casualty numbers in the early days (exaggerated by a factor of 10 even according to estimates made in western media),
Don't recall this at all.
much of the "fuck off warship" story (they claimed everyone died a hero, days later it turns out they were all taken POW aka they surrendered in the end).
That's not BS. How was anyone besides the Russians supposed to know that the soldiers were captured instead of killed? I don't blame the Ukrainians for making the obvious assumption. The only slightly odd part I found of that story was that Russia exchanged them back.
Then there's the BS we don't hear about. Like the Ukraine government using the opportunity to outlaw most political parties in the country, because clearly that's important right now, is it?
You mean where they outlawed a handful of pro-Russia parties including only one with a significant presence in Parliament [theguardian.com]? Ordinarily I'd object more strongly to the big party bei
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So what do they think happened in Bucha?
Honestly haven't asked that. Do you think you know? Last I checked, there's some assumptions but investigations are still ongoing.
That's not BS. How was anyone besides the Russians supposed to know that the soldiers were captured instead of killed? I don't blame the Ukrainians for making the obvious assumption. The only slightly odd part I found of that story was that Russia exchanged them back.
They didn't claim "we don't know what happened, we must assume the worst". The story on that day was clearly that everyone was killed, no doubt about it.
And what is odd there? Russia and Ukraine have exchanged POWs several times already.
Now, I don't like banning political parties and arresting politicians, but literal treason in a time of war changes the calculus.
Take his right to stand for election. What did the rest of his party do to be outright banned?
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So what do they think happened in Bucha?
Honestly haven't asked that. Do you think you know? Last I checked, there's some assumptions but investigations are still ongoing.
Investigations are still ongoing to gather and document evidence for warcrimes.
But it seems very clear that hundreds of civilians were murdered during the fairly short Russian occupation, not to mention wide scale rape.
I suppose there's some questions as to how much was a result of orders (and from whom) and how much was just terrible discipline, but the basic fact of wide-scale murder seems pretty well established.
Are you of the opinion that those killings could potentially be justifiable? Or are you imagi
Reminder: there's nothing special about Clearview (Score:2)
Clearview isn't using any special sauce technology. They're just being especially brazen with their scraping. You don't even have to dig into the research papers, there are any number of excellent resources to explain how to build a modern facial recognition system.
Missing Context (Score:2)
There's two very different ways this could go:
1) Find parents of the dead soldier on social media and send a picture saying "this your kid?!?"
or
2) Find parents of the dead solider on social media and send a message "I'm from the Ukrainian government. I'm sorry to inform you that we believe one of the Russian soldier's killed in a recent conflict to have been your son. We have photos of the body, can you put us in contact with someone who is willing to confirm the identity?"
Obviously #1 is pretty nasty while
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what's barbaric about it? (Score:2)