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Mercedes-Benz Opens Sales of Level 3 Self-Driving System In Germany (motor1.com) 71

Posted by BeauHD from the ready-to-roll dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motor1: The two flagship models from Mercedes-Benz, the S-Class and the all-electric EQS, will soon be able to be ordered with conditional self-driving tech in Germany. Starting from May 17, the so-called Drive Pilot system will be offered as an extra-cost option for the two sedans, allowing the driver to hand the entire control of the machine over to the system under certain conditions. The Stuttgart-based automaker became the first in the industry to receive international approval for Level 3 autonomous tech in December last year. Releasing the system on the market now becomes the next logical step and Mercedes will ask 5,000 euros for Drive Pilot on the S-Class and 7,430 euros on the EQS, respectively around $5,260 and $7,813 at the current exchange rates. These figures include both the required hardware and software and for now, no further subscriptions are needed.

It's important to note that Level 3 doesn't mean a fully autonomous vehicle. The system used by Mercedes allows the driver to hand all driving tasks to the tech in heavy traffic or on suitable motorways in Germany with speeds of up to 60 kilometers per hour. Under these conditions, the driver can fully disengage from driving with the system controlling the speed and distance, as well as guiding the vehicle within its lane. More importantly, the system also reacts to unexpected traffic situations and avoids dangerous maneuvers. Mercedes is currently working on receiving certification in the United States, notes Motor1.
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Mercedes-Benz Opens Sales of Level 3 Self-Driving System In Germany More

Mercedes-Benz Opens Sales of Level 3 Self-Driving System In Germany

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  • Have to hand it to Mercedes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Saturday May 07, 2022 @08:27AM (#62511708)

    They keep finding new and inventive ways to make their cars even more boring to drive.

    • I guess the target audience are people who want to get from A to B in comfort.

      Fahrvergnügen is over at Volkswagen.

    • Re:Have to hand it to Mercedes (Score:4, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Saturday May 07, 2022 @09:25AM (#62511798) Homepage Journal

      You know they keep making faster and more unnecessary vehicles, too, right? They have cars with many hundreds of horsepowers. If you want to make lots of noise, burn up lots of fuel and rubber, and generally hoon, you can do that in a Mercedes if you spend enough money.

      The whole point of an S-class is wafting from point to point, and having just enough performance to claim you've got some so you don't get embarrassed by a Camry or something.

      • The whole point of an S-class is wafting from point to point, and having just enough performance to claim you've got some so you don't get embarrassed by a Camry or something.

        You can get a seriously fast S-class if you want one.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It only handles the boring bits, basically when you are stuck in traffic. As soon as things get moving you have to drive it yourself.

    • But perhaps there will be a Settings checkbox for "Emulate a BMW driver."

    • Or, maybe they want to do their part in reducing the nearly 1 million deaths, and more horribly injured in traffic accidents worldwide every year. 40,000 people are murdered in traffic accidents every year just in the USA. How much are we (via insurance companies, government, people) spending on healthcare for accident victims? Driver testing and training fails to account for temporary distraction and bad decisions. Less than half that number of people are killed with guns .. yet people want to ban guns. Th

  • Hard to screw up in a traffic jam and when just following the example of the human traffic for exceptional circumstances.

    • how can I tell that you've NEVER been involved in the sw or hw side of things in this topic.

      (ob disc, I work in the field and its so much harder than it would seem. like, 100x harder than first impression might be.)

      remember, it takes a very advanced brain and years of experience to drive a car safely. AI isn't even a 'thing' compared to a real human brain.

      tldr; this isn't just a line follower, dude. your photo detector and 2 dc motors under a dish is not what we're talking about IRL.

      • But it is by far easier to know when to say cross the lines for temporary road diversions by simply following the human drivers in a traffic jam.

        For traffic jams a fragile expert system could be just about good enough for Mercedes to decide to take the blame when it breaks. Until there's too many "self driving" cars in the jam, then they have a problem. Fragile expert systems for the higher level behaviour is about the best they can do till actual AI.

        • There is no AI at all involved in Mercedes (and most other European) self driving cars.

          And most certainly not an "expert system" for traffic jams - why would that be needed?

          • It's only self driving in traffic jams, that's the only thing it's certified for.

            The system doing the highest level decision making (deciding to lane shift, deciding to make an emergency stop, deciding to give up and beg the human to rescue the machine) is always going to be an expert system until strong AI. You can have adversarial training and whatnot, but rule based expert systems overrule all and backstop everything. They are also fragile pieces of shit, but traffic jams make it easier.

            • The system doing the highest level decision making (deciding to lane shift, deciding to make an emergency stop, deciding to give up and beg the human to rescue the machine) is always going to be an expert system until strong AI.
              No it is not.
              a) I worked on that system: so I know
              b) Strong AI does not exist yet

              It's only self driving in traffic jams, that's the only thing it's certified for.
              That is wrong. It is Level 3 self driving, certified for everything that covers level 3.

              Actually the system could be compl

              • Lets take a single specific case. What type of algorithm ultimately decides to turn off drive pilot and alert the driver to take over? Is it some trained blackbox, or is it a preprogrammed state machine?

                If it's legally certified to drive without traffic around it that's a huge vote of non confidence from the decision makers at Mercedes then.

                https://group.mercedes-benz.co... [mercedes-benz.com]
                "Conditionally automated driving on suitable motorway sections where traffic density is high"

                That would mean someone at Mercedes seems t

  • Those are usually the ones with a chauffeur built-in.
    At least the Non-AI-chauffeur knows where the whores hang around.

    • Isn't it the other way around? AI can tell you where the whores are in a split second. Driving between the lines however is a bit more challenging.
  • This is the most dangerous level. With Level 1 and 2, the car monitors the driver to make sure they are still alert. With 3, the car does not monitor the driver and performs all tasks - until it can't - then asks the driver to take over. NOW. Are you sleeping, playing Wordle, drunk? Too bad. I was hoping car companies would skip over this level and go to 4, a true autonomous car in a defined area.

    • The system used by Mercedes allows the driver to hand all driving tasks to the tech in heavy traffic or on suitable motorways in Germany with speeds of up to 60 kilometers per hour.

      It doesn't say what "suitable motorways" are or why anybody would drive on a motorway at 60kmh (is it even legal to got that slowly on a motorway?)

      So basically it's only ever going to be used "in heavy traffic".

      • Suitable motorways (synonym for road, not for highway or Autobahn) are roads that have a speed limit of 60km/h or less.

        • Suitable motorways (synonym for road, not for highway or Autobahn) are roads that have a speed limit of 60km/h or less.

          No, Mercedes' Level-3 system is intended to drive autonomously in highway traffic jams. The speed limits on those highways will be much higher, but the Level-3 system will only operate when the car is moving slowly. When the traffic jam dissipates, the car should alert the driver and allow for some "reasonable" time for the driver to take over. But within the traffic jam, the driver does not have to pay attention to the road.

          • No, Mercedes' Level-3 system is intended to drive autonomously in highway traffic jams.
            The no is wrong. It should be "also".

            But within the traffic jam, the driver does not have to pay attention to the road.
            Yes, and the car drives completely autonomous inside of cities where the speed limit is .... tata: 50km/h - usually. And 60km/h rarely.

            • But within the traffic jam, the driver does not have to pay attention to the road.

              Yes, and the car drives completely autonomous inside of cities where the speed limit is .... tata: 50km/h - usually. And 60km/h rarely.

              It doesn't, though: "Mercedes-Benz is initially offering DRIVE PILOT in Germany, where 13,191 kilometres of motorway are approved for conditionally automated driving." Quoted from Mercedes' marketing material [mercedes-benz.com]. So, no level 3 city driving.

              • Perhaps you are right.
                But that is not clear from the press note. "Motorway" can mean anything. If they mean highway only they had used highway or Autobahn in the description.
                Perhaps I find a German release :D

    • What level is The Terminator? That's the level I want. (Just kidding, I really don't like cars and think this is the most insightful YouTube channel [youtube.com] of all time).

    • Came here to see this. Level 3 should never have been allowed to see the light of day. It's by far the most difficult; the number of failure modes associated with handing off control between computer and driver are ridiculous.

      It's hard enough with two humans in aircraft (there is much training around "positive exchange of control") which have way more conscious awareness of situations.

      The safest implementations I've seen of Level 3 are the ones that don't just say "oops human take over now!" they are the on

      • That's why they've limited the scope. It's only going to function up to 60 kph, or only about 37 mph for people like me who don't think in those terms. Further, it's only going to function in pre-mapped areas, and probably ones which they've determined have low risk. Anywhere else, the vehicle will let you know ahead of time that it's not going to drive you there, probably at the time that you plan your route. That's what makes levels 3 and 4 viable, you don't expect them to be able to go everywhere.

        I think

  • Why the fucking slow 60 kph (37.282 mph) (Score:4, Informative)

    by burni2 ( 1643061 ) on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:13AM (#62511876)

    This is not a rant, it's just the answer:
    Because UN Regulation No 157 which is about the ALKS Automated Lane Keeping System (hell Automated is the wrong word, it should be "advanced" if you don't know what I mean -> look at Reg. No 79 series of amendments 3 / lane keeping)

    tells under item 2.1 definitions that the ALKS is a system designed to operate "60 km/h or less" and you can read it under Section 5
    "System Safety and Fail-safe Response" in item 5.2.3.1

     

    "The maximum speed up to which the system is permitted to operate is 60 km/h."
     

    Reg. at UNECE
    https://unece.org/transport/do... [unece.org]

    and translated and repulished in EU
    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/... [europa.eu]

    https://www.elektroniknet.de/i... [elektroniknet.de]

    • I'm surprised to see that there are UN regulations for vehicles. given that the UN generally concentrates on humanitarian issues like providing disaster relief and preventing wars...and given how successful they are with that job are we really sure we want them regulating vehicles too? This sounds more like a job for a specialized international agency. like the IATA for air transport.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by burni2 ( 1643061 )

        Indeed the UN does much more than humanitarian work, but those regulations are drafted by working groups of international engineers from manufacturers as well as type approval authorities and basically technical bodies. The meetings - sans Corona - took/take place in Geneva/Switzerland.

        The reason is:
        "World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (WP.29)"

        But as the no 29 indicates there is much more:
        https://unece.org/wp29-introdu... [unece.org]
        https://unece.org/transportveh... [unece.org]

  • Curious (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OpenSourced ( 323149 ) on Saturday May 07, 2022 @10:31AM (#62511900) Journal

    I find it interesting how the first company in getting a real working product in level 3 self-driving is one that has not been pursing the limelight or promising to have full level 4 in six months.

    • Mercedes' thing is competence within their scope. It's rare that they deliver a vehicle that has problems in the early phases. It's not at all uncommon that they develop expensive problems later on, but most of them will live out their expected service life without serious mishap, and deliver a generally excellent experience in the process. It's immediately thereafter that they tend to get expensive again, with few exceptions these days. And even most of the old ones were not all that magically reliable eit

    • They're the first to get their technology approved at this level under very specific circumstances: well mapped roads, low speeds, on the highway, in good weather, during the day, and while following a car, for a single country; this approval hardly says that they're ahead on the technology. Here's a comparison video [insideevs.com].

    • Because they do not develop it themselves.
      The automatic driving is mostly developed by the "Frauenhofer Institute" and Continental (yes, the rubber tire company).

  • The system used by Mercedes allows the driver to hand all driving tasks to the tech in heavy traffic or on suitable motorways in Germany with speeds of up to 60 kilometers per hour.

    60 kilometers an hour? So this system only works up to about 35 MPH equivalent? Seems pretty useless for the amount of coin they want, but whatever. I wonder if this wasn't mistranslated, and maybe meant 100 kilometers an hour which is roughly 60 MPH. That would make more sense.

    • Nah. This is literally cruise control for stop-and-go traffic. Back in the before times when I commuted to work, something like this could have been handy because the highway was reliably slow in the morning.

    • This is a German car. They have trains, if you didn't want to drive then you'd take one. The idea is that the car does the tedious bullshit parts for you, and you do the good parts.

  • Eliminate the humans (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Miamicanes ( 730264 ) on Saturday May 07, 2022 @05:04PM (#62512612)

    15-25 years from now, the "express lanes" presently getting built down the middle (or above) Florida freeways will become "autonomous-only", and human drivers will be restricted to only certain lanes & exit ramps.

    One thing that needs to happen is for the industry to agree on a way for "smart roads" to direct "smart traffic". An autonomous car might be able to avoid accidents better than a semi-distracted human, but making a dent in GRIDLOCK will depend upon having a computer that's aware of ALL traffic in an area & its destinations, so it can choreograph its movements and maximize throughput.

    With one computer that has final authority over traffic movements along a road segment, you can efficiently zip-merge 3 lanes of cars at 80+mph, or navigating a complex, seemingly-adhoc path across a big unmarked intersection in ways that would be utterly suicidal for human drivers.

    With coordination & 2-way car-highway communication, you can turn more shoulders into usable lanes. If a car has to stop, approaching cars can divert around it before it becomes a safety hazard.

    You can also get away with interchange designs that would present a serious safety hazard to human drivers due to blocked sight lines or short weaving zones. I'll go so far as to say that banning human drivers from a stretch of road could probably double its hourly capacity with just a few small improvements that would be cost-prohibitive to implement in a way suitable for human drivers.

    Even on "normal" roads, coordinating cars could almost double capacity. How many times have you tried to turn left across 3 or 4 lanes of moderate oncoming traffic, only to be foiled for minutes because one car in one lane screwed up an otherwise clear shot? With 2-way coordination, that car could be slightly sped up or slowed down, and possibly shifted over a lane or two, opening up a clear path for YOUR car to cross after just a few seconds of waiting.

    Think about what it's like driving on a road for the first few months after the area's traffic lights have all been optimally-synchronized (and before new lights on stupid timers get added before the NEXT reprogramming project 5-10 years later). You know... you hit maybe one red light, then hit 12 green lights in a row as long as you keep up with the 'platoon'. That's what traffic could be like almost all the time once human drivers are eliminated.

    • None of that tricky driving stuff makes sense until we're on tweels. Even run-flats are too unpredictable, though they might represent a reasonable minimum for anything fancy like platooning or full-rate, bumper to bumper zip merging if coupled with a sufficient regime of inspections. Race cars do a lot of amazing shit but they're maintained a lot better than road ones for a reason — and have a lot more safety gear. I'm kind of surprised actually that vehicle fire extinguisher systems haven't been man

      • The fact is, all of this will exist long before that point out of pure necessity. In most cities, it would simply be impossible to widen every road to the degree necessary to safely accommodate human drivers at the required hourly capacity as the city's population continues to grow. With computer-driven cars, you could have a road contract from 16 lanes down to 12 for a few hundred feet as it passes between two particularly expensive buildings, and have the cars zip together and ACCELERATE into the chokepoi

        • Our reliance on the car is not a law of physics. It's driven by cartels who depend on our addiction for profit. Until we kick it we'll be making ever worse decisions to try to make it make sense.

          • It's also driven by the practical reality that it's almost impossible to live near your workplace unless you're single & don't own a house.

            If you're married, it's almost inevitable that despite your attempts to the contrary, you or your spouse will end up commuting in opposite directions at some point.

            If you own a house & treat it like anything besides a guaranteed lease, you'll take a huge financial hit every time you sell it to move (realtor commission, closing costs, etc). Not to mention a total

            • It's also driven by the practical reality that it's almost impossible to live near your workplace unless you're single & don't own a house.

              There are many commute strategies and not all of them depend on the automobile. We are stuck on this one because of the political and economic actions of oil, automobile, roadway, and other cartels, e.g. lobbying.

              Even today, a townhouse like mine within walking distance of a Metrorail station starts around a million dollars (vs $200-300k in a more suburban location that's still pretty dense, but reachable only by car).

              That is due to conscious decisions made by politicians in exchange for being jerked off with piles of filthy, filthy lucre.

              • Maybe, maybe not... but regardless, the pattern is set in (concrete) stone, and is the reality every American alive today has to deal with for the likely remainder of their working lives, plus at least another century beyond that. Even IF every zoning department in the country changes its mind tomorrow & only allows transit-compatible development going forward, we'll never be more than one recession & tight job market away from a 40-mile commute.

                Also... even IF someone is willing to sell their house

  • I want self driving cars to have a specific light on the roof...when the car is driving itself. This way, we all know if the driver is participating, or not.

    • 10000% this!

      I've been saying this, exactly this, and its contantly ignored.

      think about it, we've added cues over time. brake lights then turn signals and then 3rd brake light.

      we tell people things via visual and even audible hints all the time, on the road.

      its VERY dangerous to tailgate autonomous (even partial) cars. teslas (mine, at least) phantom brakes and you just are not going to want to be so close to my tail end when my car decides to suddenly brake for a shadow or overpass light-change.

      if you tel

  • Let me sleep, read, or otherwise goof off while the car gets me to the metro area of my destination. I'll happily take over once we're getting off the highway. I'd pay very handsomely for this feature, and I suspect many others would as well.

    • That one has been around the corner for a long time. The problem is in the details, and what to do if the human doesn't take over when requested.

  • LOL it can't be alleged mythical 'Level 3' because it's still got a steering wheel and other controls for a human driver, therefore it can't be a proper death-box-on-wheels to kill people.

    There will never be true 'autonomous cars' because there is no such thing as actual 'artificial intelligence', just the fake-ass totally ersatz crap they've been turning out for years. None of it can actually 'think' therefore it's not real and never will be. We don't know how human brains 'think', not a clue, so we can't

  • There, someone put more thought than hype into the concept.

    The morning commute traffic jam is exactly where I've wished the most often that my car had autonomous driving. There's nothing to see or pay attention to, I've driven that same way a few hundred times, everything is very predictable, all you need to do is follow the car in front of you until you're near your exit.

    I've always thought that's the perfect environment.

  • Mercedes only has apprival in Germany.

    Please stop qualifying anything that happens outside of the USA as "international", this is not what the word means.

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