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Power

California Energy Officials Warn of Possible Blackouts This Summer For Up To 4M (usnews.com) 112

Posted by EditorDavid from the dark-desert-highways dept.
Reuters reports: California energy officials on Friday issued a sober forecast for the state's electrical grid, saying it lacks sufficient capacity to keep the lights on this summer and beyond if heatwaves, wildfires or other extreme events take their toll....

California has among the most aggressive climate change policies in the world, including a goal of producing all of its electricity from carbon-free sources by 2045. In an online briefing with reporters, the officials forecast a potential shortfall of 1,700 megawatts this year, a number that could go as high as 5,000 MW if the grid is taxed by multiple challenges that reduce available power while sending demand soaring, state officials said during an online briefing with reporters. Supply gaps along those lines could leave between 1 million and 4 million people without power.

Outages will only happen under extreme conditions, officials cautioned, and will depend in part on the success of conservation measures.
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California Energy Officials Warn of Possible Blackouts This Summer For Up To 4M More

California Energy Officials Warn of Possible Blackouts This Summer For Up To 4M

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  • At least you can run your air conditioner!
    • What else would you run an air conditioner from than a solar panel? That's basically one of the best uses for it.
      • Unless if course it stays hot overnight. . .

        • Unless if course it stays hot overnight. . .

          Industrial demand falls overnight, so there's grid capacity free to run air conditioners in the parts of California where that's an issue. Rolling blackouts occur during the day.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            Industrial demand falls overnight, so there's grid capacity free to run air conditioners in the parts of California where that's an issue. Rolling blackouts occur during the day.

            Wasn't there something about how California wanted to invest heavily in crypto?

            Might be more rolling blackouts to run all those crypto miners. You know they're going to favor those over everyone else, and probably pay less for electricity than what you pay.

        • Air conditioning with heat storage is a thing. [wikipedia.org] Storing heat is so simple there's no reason not to do it -- way simpler than storing electricity.

        • Unless if course it stays hot overnight. . .

          California is in a low-humidity climate.

          The summer temperature drops into the 60s at night.

        • Unless if course it stays hot overnight. . .

          In California when you install solar you are required to install battery storage for the excess power

        • You really only need to cover about 4 hours with batteries for demand to fall sufficiently for the black outs to stop. In Texas, we have almost no residential customers with any electric plans that vary with time of day. This needs to change to encourage demand shifts. This would reduce peak need.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kremmy ( 793693 )
        Fans and ventilation, sure. But as soon as you're looking at actually heating and cooling a home, the number of panels required goes up significantly.

    • Re:Quick! Buy solar panels! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by madbrain ( 11432 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @08:29AM (#62513828) Homepage Journal

      It would help a lot if the tariffs on US solar panels were lifted. Sadly, they were not.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It would help a lot if the tariffs on US solar panels were lifted. Sadly, they were not.

        How do you expect the gov't to fund the war in Ukraine without taxing the fuck out of everything?

        Just suck it up and pay the tariff already. At least it's a one-time tax whereas staying on the utility grid or continuing to use gasoline means you're forever paying taxes.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by gtall ( 79522 )

          The war in the Ukraine is peanuts to the U.S. budget. On the other hand, a Europe forced to confront a re-invigorated Russia will cost the U.S. a quite bit. Don't want to pay it? Fine. Say goodbye to a nice fat trading partner.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by madbrain ( 11432 )

          I have 40 solar panels already. Installed 28 of 235W when I bought the house. At that time, they covered 80% of the electricity usage, and 100% of the bill. I added 12 more panels of 245W when I got my first EV 10 years ago. Total of 9.5 kW DC. We now have 2 EVs. The PVs produce about a tiny bit less every year also. Last year, the PV production only covered 52% of the total 25 MWh electricity consumption (calculated as grid usage + solar production). Going to 80 similarly-sized panels would cover 100% of u

    • In most cases you are not permitted to use the power of your solar panels if there is a blackout. You would also need a lot of extra equipment to qualify.

      • It isn't so much a matter of permitted. It is a matter of the extra stuff. Mainly batteries. The odds of your panels exactly matching the load is low, very low.
        • Definitely not a "permitted" issue. Most lower cost inverters on grid tie solar systems do not operate if there is no grid. This is part of the inverter design. Some inverters will run without the grid, either with batteries or in a "lower power" mode, often supplying an auxiliary plug. A full "auto fail-over" off-the-grid inverter with transfer switch and batteries ends up costing a bunch more. Usually more than just buying a decent propane or natural gas generator for the occasional blackout.

  • "aggressive climate change policies"... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rantrantrant ( 4753443 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @08:43AM (#62513844)
    ...aren't much help in the short-term, the current climate conditions were locked in decades ago, & they don't help much in the longer term if only a few states & countries around the world aren't doing likewise. I'm pretty sure that CO2, methane, heat, & extreme weather conditions don't observe borders. The Obama administration had 2 terms to address climate change reduction & mitigation but instead chose to expand oil exploration & production, & promote fracking. By now it should be clear to Americans (as it is already to the rest of the world) that US climate policy is written by the fossil fuel industry. If any "aggression" is necessary, it's towards the CEOs & shareholders who are prolonging the fossil fuel industry.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Would keeping fossil fuel and nuclear plants operational cost $0? If the answer is no, then clearly investment is needed to keep the lights on. If investment is needed, can you invest in clean energy sources to get the same effect?

      In other words, it's not really a question of clean vs. dirty energy. It's a question of investment.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      they don't help much in the longer term if only a few states & countries around the world aren't doing likewise

      Why? Why can't you drive an EV today and do your part even if I continue to drive a shitbox IC car?

      • I think you may be responding to the wrong comment. I'm saying people aren't doing enough to mitigate climate change.

    • Expanding oil exploration, production, and fracking all contribute to a vibrant economy. An economy that is setting conditions to increase EV sales and charging infrastructure. True there is a short term environmental cost to this, but it's better than the longer term environmental cost of a bad economy where people can't afford EVs and manufacturers can't afford to reach needed economies of scale in EV production to compete with ICEs and cancel their EV endeavors or go bankrupt. If the economy continues t

      • So, you're arguing that in order to invest in renewable energy & infrastructure, we need to invest more in fossil fuels & infrastructure first. Is that it? That money couldn't just be invested in renewables? Instead, we have even more damage & costs from excessive CO2 & methane pollution to deal with.
    • If only there were some sort of rock we could pull from the ground and then refine and do a bunch of physics shit to make it create steam we could get clean power from.. If only....
      • Yeah, we've tried that & nearly lost Three Mile Island & the surrounding area, a large part of central Europe, & Japan (Japan was only saved by a lucky fluke, i.e. a flood door was damaged in the explosion which flooded the cooling pond, preventing a even more massive explosion. The cores of the reactors melted down & there's no way to see how far down they've burrowed their way towards the water table, which would also be catastrophic for Japan). So far, we've been very lucky. It also turns
        • Three mile Island wasn't "lost" . Japan wasn't "Lost". A large part of central Europe wasn't "lost". Stop hyperventilating. As for Germany: Yeah, they learned their lesson. They just switched to buying from Putin. Who in turn is threatening an actual nuclear war.
          • Look into those incidents. They are an order of magnitude less severe than they could've been. It's only by the bravery & brilliance of the engineers on site, defying orders & risking their lives to save the rest of us as well as sheer fluke that events unfolded as they did that so far, we've managed to avoid making large areas, even whole countries & regions uninhabitable for the foreseeable future. You may be willing to gamble millions of lives & $trillions in losses for the sake of an ide
        • Lol, it's objectively safer by far than our major power sources, and on par with (or safer than) solar. You're just being a baby.
          • Ah, ad hominem & dismissive arguments. Look into those incidents & see how close we came to catastrophes in an order of magnitude greater than what happened. In Fukishima, the chief engineer on site decided to defy management & pumped sea water to cool the reactors thereby preventing more explosions. The management were concerned about the salt water damaging their precious, expensive equipment. The management also wanted to evacuate the site & leave the reactors to their own fates. The engi
  • I'm in the beta-test state so it will be interesting to see how things play out.

  • California math (Score:5, Insightful)

    by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @08:56AM (#62513868) Journal

    They are between 1.7-5 Gw short, meaning a couple million people will lose power.

    California's solution? Force the 2.2Gw power plant it Diablo Canyon to shut down.

    But don't worry - they're also shutting down three natural gas plants that produce several gigawatts.

    Short on power? Shut down 10% of your power plants. That's the California way.

    • The solution is voting.

      If CA peeps reward that behavior, the only thing I wanna connect to its power grid is a popcorn maker.

    • Maybe there's still time to double-down on their way and convert a few more plants to mine bitcoin, ala Hardin

    • California's solution? Force the 2.2Gw power plant it Diablo Canyon to shut down.

      Not exactly.

      https://apnews.com/article/bus... [apnews.com]

    • California's solution? Force the 2.2Gw power plant it Diablo Canyon to shut down.

      Yeah except that people have been talking about this for 5 years now. Your examples sound bad when you ignore time.

      • You're saying that because they've been having regular power outages and shutting down power plants for a long time, that makes it a good idea?

        Kinda like someone who has been smoking meth for several years?

        • You're saying that because they've been having regular power outages and shutting down power plants for a long time, that makes it a good idea?

          Kinda like someone who has been smoking meth for several years?

          I think I said you have poor reading comprehension skills.

          • Nah, I read what you wrote. You said it sounds bad, but it's not because they've been doing it for several years.

            If you do stupid things long enough, they stop being stupid, right?

            • Btw Garb, it's cool if you want to change your mind and - not say that. I did that the other day. I had said something silly about memory pages.

    • And all this while losing population for the last two years!

  • But they ran on 97% renewables for a few seconds!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by cuda13579 ( 1060440 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @09:29AM (#62513960)

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    Maybe their population decline will help take the load off...
    https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]

    But, standby for the California evangelists calling everywhere else a shithole...

  • All of the power is being sucked up by their hair dryers, makeup desk lighting, and tanning enclosures.

    • "All of the power is being sucked up by their hair dryers, makeup desk lighting, and tanning enclosures."

      Not to mention they have to shave their backs every morning, you have to be very flexible to do that.

  • Lets sell more electronic vehicles!!
    • Most EV owners in California are charging between midnight and 5 AM when the power is cheap and there is plenty available. The power shortages this article is talking about are in the afternoon when everyone is running their air conditioning.
      • So people who dont fit into the "average" are SOL? Thats hardly a comfort, and a big problem with EVs. No one has a crystal ball and they only work well for a smaller group who fit into an average use standard. Get a night shift or a kid who wants to use it at night and you are one of the unfortunate.

  • This kind of issue may get Shellenberger elected (Score:3, Informative)

    by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @10:37AM (#62514092)

    https://twitter.com/Shellenber... [twitter.com]

    Gavin Newsom's aides yesterday said climate change may soon cause blackouts, but that's ridiculous: we've known about climate change for decades.

    The reason for four years of blackouts in a row is because Newsom won't build the power plants we need.

    Now, people could die.

    Newsome is a connected, political bureaucrat whose done nothing to solve California's long list of problems. Shellenberger is a brain who has extensively studied and written books on solving those problems. Those solutions won't always be politically palatable, but they have real-world research to back them up.

  • And they were so proud (Score:3)

    by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @10:37AM (#62514094)

    Because nearly all of their energy came from renewables. Keep it up California! You can't defy the laws of energy.

    • Nothing is defying the laws of energy. There are plenty of places in the world with far more renewables than California who aren't facing rolling blackouts.

      Stop confusing mismanagement with green energy, and please turn off Fox News, it kills brain cells.

  • What? (Score:5, Informative)

    by groobly ( 6155920 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @10:50AM (#62514118)

    What? I was clearly told that the 70% premium I pay for California's green energy was a guarantee of infinite free power forever. There must be some mistake. Probably, they just haven't closed down enough coal-fired, gas-fired, and uranium-fired power plants yet. Once they get them all closed down, we won't have to worry about blackouts, and electricity will be free.

    • Electricity will never be free, even if we'll have fusion, they will still charge you for every watt you'll use, next to the offset for maintenence and management.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Well, it won't be free, but yes, green is the way to go. Paying for the climate affects of global warming will cost you much, much more than green energy.

      And the green crowd never promised it was going to be a straight easy path. There will be ups and downs, but then you couldn't use your specious argument.

      • Californians pay a premium for a shitty electrical grid while China and India continue to grow their carbon emissions into the foreseeable future.

        Green is not the way to go unless your goal is to reduce the population of the state as people flee for less uncomfortable and dangerous living conditions.

    • What? I was clearly told that the 70% premium I pay for California's green energy was a guarantee of infinite free power forever.

      Citation needed. Otherwise I'm going to assume you're a trolling arsehat. ... Or just really stupid.

    • Real places like Seattle use 99 percent renewable energy, so we ROFL at California still subsidizing expensive unreliable fossil fuels when they could go 120% renewable like a real place would.

      Oh, and most of your green electricity is coming from us, up here, we sell it to you at a premium.

  • They could easily bring on 5000 mw of solar in the west. This is a lack of economic will and why utilities should be government run or limited to co-op. Publicly traded companies wonâ(TM)t operate on a service motive. Only profits.

  • Good intentions don’t solve problems (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SmaryJerry ( 2759091 ) on Sunday May 08, 2022 @11:13AM (#62514180)
    I feel like this news about energy shortage is California has been a permanent and yearly repetition, so why hasn’t it been solved? Why can’t electricity providers, given essentially a monopoly in many cases, be profitable enough to support new development and already known forecasted increases in usage? Does every state run into power shortages year after year or is it only Californian headlining these stories? The only answer is California’s policies and regulation. While there are numerous reasons the constant link between their electricity policies are good intentions. Switching to and encouraging renewables without a solid replacement plan, forcing discounts to be offered, locking down customers from working then allowing them not to pay utility bills. There are billions of dollars that could have been used for upgrades that were never received. Something has to give and plans need to be implemented with both good intentions AND profit for companies providing a benefit to society.
    • SmaryJerry has the problem cause correctly framed, been like that for many years, howcome no one from P.G.&E. or PUC in jail ?? My Honda EU7000is , just waitin' in the garage to be wheeled onto the bottom deck.

    • The only answer is Californiaâ(TM)s policies and regulation.

      Almost, except half your answer is the opposite of the truth. It's California's policies and deregulation.

    • Because voters in california care about image over outcome. Have for years.

  • But lets put millions of electric cars in the mix! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Le sigh

  • It's all down to poor management. If this was the first year it would happen, then it's not 'a problem', but it's been happening year after year now and still nothing has been done about it, so if it will happen this year it's all down to poor management, nothing else.

  • Another Slashdot story, "Giving Old Dams New Life Could Spark an Energy Boom", says that hydro-electric dams are making a comeback in the south and the east.

    So the solution is easy: move California to the east coast.
    Isn't it mostly pre-cut from the main continent anyway?

  • A combination of solar panels and wind turbines, along with a battery system (or water pumped up an incline) can easily power your home. Just make sure you opt for the tri-phase inverter so you can run off grid.

    Plus, it's much cheaper and more reliable.

    If you rent, check out purchasing solar and wind units through your utility, tends to run $600 per unit, about 1/10th what it would cost if you install it yourself.

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