Microsoft Recommends People Uninstall Optional Windows 11 Update KB5012643 (extremetech.com) 75
DrunkenTerror shares a report from ExtremeTech: Microsoft is advising Windows 11 users to uninstall a recent update. Reports indicated the optional update KB5012643 is causing various apps to crash. The problem involves an interaction between the update and the .Net Framework that's part of Windows. At this time it's unclear which apps are affected by the issue, leaving uninstallation as the "only" viable solution.
"Affected apps are using certain optional components in .NET Framework 3.5, such as Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) and Windows Workflow (WWF) components." This update also broke Safe Mode. Microsoft says when users booted into 'Safe Mode without networking' users might see the screen flicker. Per MS, "Components that rely on explorer.exe, such as File Explorer, the Start menu, and the taskbar, can be affected and appear unstable." Microsoft issued a Known Issue Rollback (KiR) for this already so it should be fixed. If you encounter it, you should be able to resolve it by enabling network support in Safe Mode.
"Affected apps are using certain optional components in .NET Framework 3.5, such as Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) and Windows Workflow (WWF) components." This update also broke Safe Mode. Microsoft says when users booted into 'Safe Mode without networking' users might see the screen flicker. Per MS, "Components that rely on explorer.exe, such as File Explorer, the Start menu, and the taskbar, can be affected and appear unstable." Microsoft issued a Known Issue Rollback (KiR) for this already so it should be fixed. If you encounter it, you should be able to resolve it by enabling network support in Safe Mode.
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Re:Thank you Microsoft! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't go all the way back to XP, but 7 SP2 still works just fine. Lack of Windows Update support is a feature.
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Uh, 7 went up to SP1.
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> I just wish I could upgrade from 10 to 7. Or from 7 to XP
Why stop there? Go back to Windows 95 OSR 2 :)
Re:Thank you Microsoft! (Score:4, Interesting)
Because the NT kernel really is a better than DOS in so many ways. I would argue that there were meaningful improvements in security and stability worth having all the way up thru Windows 8.1.
There is some good stuff that has made it into the Win10 kernel but nothing to justify the hot garbage heaped on top of it. The biggest problem Windows has at this point is its really 'finished' so are most of the major Linux environments and MacOS as well for that matter. In terms of user experience doing more really makes all of those products worse at this point -or- means rolling in features that used to be stand alone apps; which amounts to just more centralization, less choice, and really less innovation and almost allays more marketing bullshit and continuing revenue cash grabs.
Really until there is a real interface paradigm shift like everyone actually starts using VR goggles or something there is not much reason for the operating system user space to change at this point. The kernels should do what they are supposed to do and abstract hardware, so they will need to change a little here and there with the hardware to support new devices and respond to the bottlenecks moving around as the relationships between primary and secondary storage, cpu speeds, core counts, memory speeds, network speeds change relative to each other.
There may be a little room to run in integrating VMs, Android has has shown us for example that its possible in terms of hardware performance to have an environment where most of the application layer is nearly machine agnostic packages. So again in kernel space shoving some binary compatibility stuff in there might make for some compelling additions, but user land - gee wiz I don't don't care KDE/Plasma/XFCE/Unity/Gnome/Mate/MacOS/Windows - interface-wise we have left better behind there is really only different from here. Same for the command line world the gnu/bash/*shell environment is complete and flexible has been for decades, powershell is pretty damn good and makes it easy to leverage the massive .Net framework for anything it doesn't already have commandlets for, even BSD land on MacOs is 'pretty usable'. In terms of general user land - What isn't there a decent library for in the general computer space on all the major platforms? What there isn't really probably should be left third party application packages that are ideally cross platform.
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There has been great progress over the decades. Sure not as rapid but it has grown beyond just a kernel.
Windows 11 or Windows 10 with TPM replaces passwords with MFA and keys stored on the TPM chip. Even if a hacker r00ts your hard drive he or she will find logging in impossible. WSL is neat if you need Unixy things. Windows 11 uses Wayland with wsl/g and can use the GPU for machine learning tasks on Linux binaries. Windows 11 kernel supports littleBig cpu archictures that have hardware thread management li
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Many would argue this is a sign of improved security but to me it is a sign of a poor/declining quality.
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Because the NT kernel really is a better than DOS in so many ways
I’m not aware of the nitty gritty details but I always thought the early NT kernel was considered a work of art by Dave Cutler and the rest of winNT was sort of a mediocre disgrace tacked on.
How was the NT kernel anything like DOS? I believe you but I think you’re glossing over some important and interesting details and without them I have a difficult time with this statement.
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Since then the there's been so much code bloat and so many ancillary services running that 10+11 are probably less secure than 2000.
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Agreed. I remember XP being dog slow and always corrupting itself. Not as bad as Windows 98 but still it was a good practice to re-image your PC once a year before XP 2 to stop the winrot.
The fact that slashdot turned into a XP fanboy site shocked the hell out of me back in 2014 when people were whinning about Windows 7 upgrades. Really?! XP that old POS that had 1000 plus exploits which slowed down and had numerous problems and bugs?
I am starting to think people just hate change sadly and slashdot should b
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I remember XP being dog slow.
Try with an SSD, that really speeds things up. I still have an old netbook for web browsing that runs clean on 1.2ghz/ 1gbDDR/ 250gbSSD
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Truth. I enabled the group policy on my pc so that it will never update to Windows 11.
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Re:Thank you Microsoft! (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that they push more updates than they have to, and drop the quality controls on those updates more than they should, because it perpetuates the public perception that they're always justifiably busy even if it's not true.
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The problem is that they push more updates than they have to, and drop the quality controls on those updates more than they should, because it perpetuates the public perception that they're always justifiably busy even if it's not true.
Maybe they could try testing the updates out instead of relying on the customers to alpha test the updates. This shouldn't be Rocket surgery.
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Yea, but then there would gradually be fewer updates over time, and the updates would work more often, which would, they presume, paradoxically, cause the public to think updates are less important and therefore Microsoft itself is less important. It's basically the broken window fallacy; they based their entire business plan off it. They even named their product after it, the jokers.
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As much fun as it is to make fun of MS, they do test things internally before they hit Insiders.. and the public. The problem is that how they test internally has been streamlined to the point where it isn't as useful for all but the most straightforward of issues.
They really need a new group of insiders.
As an example, I have a Software Defined Radio application on a Windows machine and a MacOS machine. They are identical in function, although the Mac version has some more features baked in.
Basically the software communicates with a server with an RF front end, and that communications happens over ethernet or wi-fi. It has something like 30 audio drivers, because of the different numbers of spectrum slices it can use. Each driver was separate from the others.
Re:Thank you Microsoft! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not all on MS's side for everything, but this is one of the things I am. The problem is Microsoft is damned either way. If they don't push updates, they're leaving people unprotected. If they do push updates, they get in trouble for forcing it.
It's really a strange thing. My Unix machines function after updates. But Microsoft updates have broken systems and programs since XP days. But the faithful think that is just the price they have to pay for the allegedly superior operating system.
Now there is one more thing. I control when My Linux or Mac Updates. and oddly enough, they work after updates, so it's not a big deal. I wait until I'm done working then update at my convenience, not Redmond's. But the fragile and brittle Windows environment is not capable of doing this.
I understand being annoyed with having to go out of your way to disable updates. However, I believe that pushing the updates is the right option for most users. It's better to temporarily inconvenience the people that can figure out how to stop it, than to leave the rest with security holes. I get that they're not exclusively security updates, but that is pretty much par for the course.
There is a reason why the users of Windows don't like to do updates, so Microsoft rams them down their throats.
It's because so many times, you have an important function on your computer rendered inoperative by the update. I don't disable updates on my other computers, and the annoyance of the Windows update is more focused on it's inherent incompetence than just blocking it.
Anyhow, the faithful will probably put up with anything Microsoft tells you you'll put up with, and even try to make it a positive.
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As for problems caused by updates, they're few and far between. Further, I'm an Insider and am getting updates early. I know the risks going into
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I assert that pushing updates does not work to makes the IT world safer, or at least not enough to justify patronizing the users. In recent years ransomware attacks have become a lot more common, see the abundance of news about $Company being blackmailed that way. That is in parallel to Microsoft forcing updates on the users.
For private users, I guess the "Microsoft Support" scammers are a bigger problem than people forgetting to update. I get such calls every few months, so it seems to work often enough th
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Clarification:
I mean security problems caused by negligence of the OS maker. Poor security in applications is not their fault.
In case of Microsoft, it is a bit more complex. They also make some prominent applications, and historically they sometimes coupled these tightly to the OS. See Internet Explorer. So if (hypothetically) there is a mass exploit of an Office 365 vulnerability, it is MS the OS maker, or MS the cloud operator, or MS the Office maker that is at fault?
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I assert that pushing updates does not work to makes the IT world safer, or at least not enough to justify patronizing the users.
As someone that interreacts with the end users on a regular basis as part of my job, I disagree. Sure, I sometimes get complaints about it needing to update. But, I know the kind of people the updates are being pushed out for and they need any help they can get.
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*nix systems aren't used by the mass public. Windows and MacOS are, and both of them pretty much update at their respective whim to keep the general public safer.
Just as a point of clarification, MacOS is Unix. Whenever I drop to terminal, I'm right there in Unix.
MS used to leave updates to the users, and the average user would consistently never update. That is a problem. Again, I'm not defending MS as a whole. I'm only defending their decision to push updates.
And there is a reason why people didn't update. System breakage. Now if you are going to ram updates down people's guts, the least you could do is create updates that leave the computer in a functioning state. Not the BOHICA updates. Of course a wrecked computer is pretty secure, so they have that going for them. Just as an idea, if The updates left the computer in the same functioning condition as before,
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Hairyfeet used to post on here and he has the Hairyfeet Linux change. Take and I mean any Linux distro and do 2 upgrades and prove the machine will still function lol.
I switched back to Windows as things always break on Linux and I found Windows more reliable. Laugh all you want but a lack of a kernel ABI means a simple recompile can break linux drivers as they point to ram addresses which always change when recompiled because RMS thinks proprietary drivers are too scary. That btw is a big security risk as
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Hairyfeet used to post on here and he has the Hairyfeet Linux change. Take and I mean any Linux distro and do 2 upgrades and prove the machine will still function lol.
I switched back to Windows as things always break on Linux and I found Windows more reliable. Laugh all you want but a lack of a kernel ABI means a simple recompile can break linux drivers as they point to ram addresses which always change when recompiled because RMS thinks proprietary drivers are too scary. That btw is a big security risk as well as I can put malware to these ram addresses and use a driver to deliver a payload.
Windows just works. I wish it were not true but it is
Funny how Linux is used in most of the infrastructure of the world, yet Windows just works.
I've got machines that have had new versions of the OS installed several times - Don't know what you are on about other than your User Name checks out, and the koolaid must taste so good.
Re: Thank you Microsoft! (Score:2)
Xorg breaking. SystemD borking, apache config files being over written, drivers breaking, etc
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Xorg breaking. SystemD borking, apache config files being over written, drivers breaking, etc
Yet everyone is supposed to uninstall updates. Sorry shilly, no one has the system breakage that Microsoft has. Your whataboutism skilllls are weak.
Re: Thank you Microsoft! (Score:2)
Bahaha. Are you serious? Why hasn't Linux taken over the desktop after 20 years and why haven't enterprises left Windows if it's so horrible and can't ever be updated?
In 2022 not patching is simply not an option anymore thanks to ransomware. We patch every Wednesday right aftervl Tuesday as we don't have time to test a patch. 0 problems
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Bahaha. Are you serious? Why hasn't Linux taken over the desktop after 20 years and why haven't enterprises left Windows if it's so horrible and can't ever be updated?
For the same reason that BetaMax was superior to VHS. We had a saying to people who mistook numbers for superiority - Eat shit, because a billion flies cannot be wrong. Or if that offends your delicate sensibilities, you must think that the best car in the world bar none is the Toyota Corolla. They hit 50 million in 2021, so that is indisputably the best and most capable car ever.
Also, for the habit, mostly among males of picking something then making a war out of it. Continuing along the automobile path,
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Just as a point of clarification, MacOS is Unix. Whenever I drop to terminal, I'm right there in Unix.
Of course it is, but that doesn't change the fact that it's heavily tailored for their audience.
An insider - that explains a lot.
I'm talking about their insider program. As in, I get beta updates. It doesn't explain anything, other than that I am willing to experience bugs first. I'm saying I don't come across that many.
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Just as a point of clarification, MacOS is Unix. Whenever I drop to terminal, I'm right there in Unix.
Of course it is, but that doesn't change the fact that it's heavily tailored for their audience.
ALl that does is show the versatility of Unix, And that's a fact. I use Terminal daily, but When I want a GUI that I know will work - The MacOS GUI mighyt be slick. The slickest thing is that it works without update problems. Sometime I think that reliability is not important to Windows users.
Although it is a form of Job security.
An insider - that explains a lot.
I'm talking about their insider program. As in, I get beta updates. It doesn't explain anything, other than that I am willing to experience bugs first. I'm saying I don't come across that many.
I most definitely am talking about the Windows insider program. My experience with them has been not only poor, but laughable.
My favorite least favorite one was listening to
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I most definitely am talking about the Windows insider program. My experience with them has been not only poor, but laughable. My favorite least favorite one was listening to a Windows insider override me on the purchase of - get this - Vista Basic machines.
You're not talking about the same thing. Or, at least, not the part that is relevant to my point. The Windows Insider program covers their beta and dev builds for updates. As for your anecdote, the hardware requirements for Vista were a mess. MS shouldn't have capitulated on them. If I recall, it was done so vendors could dump old hardware. I cannot speak to your situation, but I would be hesitant to trust anyone that displays a fanboy attitude. In other words, more a fault of them as a person.
I will note that a fair number of people think I'm an arrogant asshole - wouldn't be too surprised if you do too.
I wouldn't g
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I most definitely am talking about the Windows insider program. My experience with them has been not only poor, but laughable. My favorite least favorite one was listening to a Windows insider override me on the purchase of - get this - Vista Basic machines.
You're not talking about the same thing. Or, at least, not the part that is relevant to my point. The Windows Insider program covers their beta and dev builds for updates. As for your anecdote, the hardware requirements for Vista were a mess. MS shouldn't have capitulated on them. If I recall, it was done so vendors could dump old hardware. I cannot speak to your situation, but I would be hesitant to trust anyone that displays a fanboy attitude. In other words, more a fault of them as a person.
I'll note that that was a hellava anecdote that was repeated in a lot more places than my incident. I don't know what they were thinking, but at least a few of us decided that it might not be all that great to trust a company that was more interested in serving manufacturers than their customers - that to the point of selling equipment that didn't work. Point taken that I can be prejudiced against insiders. That particular incident I outlined was certainly formative, though.
I will note that a fair number of people think I'm an arrogant asshole - wouldn't be too surprised if you do too.
I wouldn't go that far, but I think you're missing the point. My original point for mentioning MacOS was that it's an automatic update process, like Windows, and does in fact screw it up sometimes. It being a Unix based system wasn't relevant. All of my Windows and Mac computers over the years have had few enough issues that I cannot quantify the frequency. But, I do know I've had issues with updates on both sides. I'm terribly at remembering details, but over the last 2 years I can tell you I've actually had more update issues with my Macs than with my Windows computers. That is, if I ignore a couple minor annoying issues with the Windows beta updates that were fixed before going to the public.
I recall an update around 8 years
Re: Thank you Microsoft! (Score:1)
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Re: Thank you Microsoft! (Score:2)
Phones are *nix too. As are all kinds of other devices. Users use 'proper' operating systems probably much more than Windows.
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A mark of wisdom posting as AC even though you have to sign in. Cowardly, but smart.
You don't even know that MacOS is Unix, yet you post as if I'm running something archaic.
I update at my convenience after my Mac Downloads the updates. I have no fear of applying the update either, because it doesn't break things. Some time in the deep past, an update came out that made the mouse jittery, gut it was corrected a day later.
You're all triggered and risking a stroke, and for s
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> Wow, speaking of Drivel. > A mark of wisdom posting as AC even though you have to sign in. Cowardly, but smart.
This really says it all, rather than admit you were full of shit and accept you were wrong you harp on about some complete and utter irrelevance to the point, it's really quite pathetic.
Oh, y'all gotta admit that you who are so cocksure of yourself chooses to post as a coward. That tells us all we need to know.
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To add to your point, has Microsoft even fixed print nightmare yet? Feel like it's been months and months and there isn't any kind of actual fix, just a bunch of workarounds.
Nope, and isn't that amazing?
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"There is a reason why the users of Windows don't like to do updates, so Microsoft rams them down their throats. It's because so many times, you have an important function on your computer rendered inoperative by the update."
I think that's a straw man. I think most people don't actually care, and most people don't disable updates. Further, most people have never had a computer rendered inoperative by the update. I mean, yes - lots of people have. But I'm unaware of any update that bricked everybody.
The rea
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After reviewing, a refinement. While I spoke of the entire bricking of a system, you spoke of "an important function on your computer rendered inoperative".
I think my summary holds true. Most people haven't had it happen. But some have.
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"There is a reason why the users of Windows don't like to do updates, so Microsoft rams them down their throats. It's because so many times, you have an important function on your computer rendered inoperative by the update."
I think that's a straw man. I think most people don't actually care, and most people don't disable updates. Further, most people have never had a computer rendered inoperative by the update.
Come on - reporting an ongoing and existing problem is a strawman?
I mean, yes - lots of people have. But I'm unaware of any update that bricked everybody.
I never ever said there was a massive bricking. But I've regularly received Windows computers that won't boot, and have to go into them to render them functional again. That isn't me claiming that every Windows machine on earth was bricked. More often however, it is a program with Windows (especially W10) deciding something wasn't needed and removing it, or changing the name of an integral part of the application like drivers. But updates do
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"I never ever said there was a massive bricking."
Agreed. I apologize for putting words in your mouth.
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"I never ever said there was a massive bricking."
Agreed. I apologize for putting words in your mouth.
Not a problem.
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I spent two or three hours fiddling with group policy and the registry to make it not install windows 11. Microsoft has NO respect for its customers.
They have absolutely no need to respect their customers. Their customers have shown time and time again that they will put up with whatever Microsoft say they will put up with.
Some will even brag about it. Stockholm Syndrome.
Is there anything that Microsoft could do that would cause you to switch?
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> Is there anything that Microsoft could do that would cause you to switch?
Nintendo
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I've returned to Linux every ten years or so and each time it has still needed lots and lots of time for system administration and configuration. (way more than Windows n
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I've returned to Linux every ten years or so and each time it has still needed lots and lots of time for system administration and configuration. (way more than Windows needs even given these patch annoyances) People think it don't be like it is but it do. Also half my games won't work any more. So there are real problems for me and, I suspect, most other Windows users that make Linux if not a non-starter at least a major sacrifice to change to.
As I noted - Windows users will put up with anything Microsoft decides they will put up with. The most amusing part is that when Microsoft goes to Subscription mode, they will not only put up with it, they will pay for it.
Re: Thank you Microsoft! (Score:2)
It's 2022 isn't it? Does it really take so long to realize you are being abused?
Linux works great these days, or if you must osx has lots of pretty.
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Nah, 7 was even better. Actually, XP. No, 2K!
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I did as you said and uninstalled Windows 11
I did that before it was cool. I uninstalled Windows 98 and replaced it with Linux. Been that way ever since. (Okay, I still have Windows 10 running on Virtualbox)
ORLY? (Score:1)
In other words it's their broken-ass advertising and telemetry services getting all broken-ass-in-your-face because they can't phone home to Redmond.
There is a reason these updates are optional (Score:3)
Re: There is a reason these updates are optional (Score:2)
you had me (Score:2)
...at "uninstall optional windows 11"
Never has Microsoft given better advice. Thanks!
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Caveat: Might end up running Win10 if you do so.
Periodic poll, while we are at it (Score:2)
Let's put this into perspective (Score:3)
They have made Core OS app dependent on a runtime they update multiple times because...
I mean, file explorers, start menus, and taskbars, are also dependent on runtime in Linux (GNOME desktop for example depends on GTK) BUT if GTK fails there's a fallback to X or you can even install alternative apps, but this can't be done on Windows, thus breaking the OS.
Whose great idea was to make Core OS apps "without fallback and without alternative" to be dependent on a daily updated runtime?
Hasn't anyone said it yet? (Score:2)
Windows Altitude in 2000 -- Nosedive ME, 8,11 (Score:2)
vertical taskbar (Score:1)
I run in VMs and take good snapshots. (Score:2)
One way to protect Windows from MSFT is run it in virtual machines periodically taking good snapshots. When it breaks revert to a state you chose then press on. I don't use Windows often but VMs are insanely handy no matter your choice of host though of course I prefer Linux hosts with Windows guests.