Putin Signs Ban On Crypto Payments In Russia (decrypt.co) 93
"Russian President Vladimir Putin approved a law Friday prohibiting the use of digital assets as forms of payments in Russia..." reports the tech/policy news site Protocol. The ban on crypto-form payments also apparently applies to NFTs:
The new law also includes a provision that requires crypto exchanges and providers refuse transactions in which digital assets could be construed as a form of payment... The new law is set to take effect in 10 days.
There's been some speculation that sanctioned Russian companies or individuals might use crypto to avoid sanctions imposed after the country's invasion of Ukraine. But officials have proven savvy in using on-chain analytics to trace transactions, and industry experts have warned that sanctions evaders would be ill-served by trying to use cryptocurrencies. U.S. and EU bodies have even added specific crypto wallet addresses to sanction lists.
There's been some speculation that sanctioned Russian companies or individuals might use crypto to avoid sanctions imposed after the country's invasion of Ukraine. But officials have proven savvy in using on-chain analytics to trace transactions, and industry experts have warned that sanctions evaders would be ill-served by trying to use cryptocurrencies. U.S. and EU bodies have even added specific crypto wallet addresses to sanction lists.
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Just came across some old psychology research. A study of Internet trolls.
Turns out that starting a discussion with negative BS encourages more. More interestingly, the researchers showed evidence that those discussions encouraged people to act more like the trolls. They were explicitly focusing on what caused "normal" people to act like Internet trolls.
Supports the findings of old research about product reviews. Those researchers set up reviews for identical products. Some of the reviews were "seeded" with positive first reviews and some started negative. If they started positive, the average values of the reviews varied more, but if they started negative, the average values were essentially compressed down, with less variation and a lower average.
Of course the $64 question is how Amazon handles their reviews? My bemused prediction would be that they might intervene in favor of the products with the largest profit margins for Amazon. (Can't test the hypothesis since I do no business with Amazon.)
Well, if I had any doubts about the validity of the research, the censor trolls have removed them--and apparently obliged me to the requote. (Though I still think the moderation system needs some major fixin'. Detecting touchy trolls is too trivial.)
Hooray? (Score:2)
No more cybercrime from Russia! Seriously though, can someone explain to me why Putin would do this?
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Wrong take. Looks more like Putin wants to start putting the screws to people who are dumping the Ruble on crypto without banning it outright (yet).
Re: The sanctions are so good, even Putin likes th (Score:2)
Re: The sanctions are so good, even Putin likes t (Score:2)
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Oh I know, Monero is an option. But what Putin is (apparently) trying to do is just make it hard to offload crypto for cash or vice versa.
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The ruble is at its highest value since 2015, it doesn't look like there are big sells going on.
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The ruble is at its highest value since 2015, it doesn't look like there are big sells going on.
I wonder if Putin making it illegal might have something to do with that...*eyeroll*
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Russia gets to sell its oil at higher prices than before, to the countries who are smart enough to ignore the sanctions.
Actually Russia's oil sales to its handful of takers are being highly discounted and are nowhere close to market prices.
https://fortune.com/2022/05/20... [fortune.com]
Re: The sanctions are so good, even Putin likes th (Score:2)
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Part of that is because India is buying a lot of Russian oil, marking it up, and reselling it to NATO countries.
Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Informative)
So people are forced to use the normal Russian currency (the Ruble) to help prop up his country's economy so the population doesn't revolt.
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Is this fucking sarcasm?
No one with a brain in Russia believes in the national currency, the ruble, most people prefer to keep they money in foreign currencies such as the US dollar or euro, stocks or simply buy cars or apartments which have always been getting costlier.
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I'm not talking about investments or asset storage, I mean just day-to-day functioning. Just like how Putin is trying to unilaterally change the terms for the gas contracts with European countries to make them pay in rubles instead of other currencies. He wants the national currency to keep changing hands. It's not worth anything if nobody uses it, and if nobody's using it the central bank is a box of confetti. That will ripple into the general economy and cause civil unrest (see: Sri Lanka).
Re:Hooray? (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously though, can someone explain to me why Putin would do this?
It will probably be enforced selectively. This is Russia we're talking about after all.
Re:Hooray? [For what or whom?] (Score:1)
Mod parent up. My first thought was "You may safely wager that this ban does not apply to Putin himself."
But I keep looking at Putin's actions to see which ones might be evidence of desperation. From that perspective, the people focusing on the enforced value of the Ruble are approaching it from the correct perspective, though that just gave me another thought on the story. Selective enforcement of this new ban also gives Putin more power over his own allies who are hiding some of their dark and dirty money
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"You may safely wager that this ban does not apply to Putin himself."
Politicians exempting themselves from their own laws is a worldwide national past-time. My favorite are the ones that surround themselves with armed guards and argue about gun control.
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Why is that your favorite?
Because it's a common wedge issue stateside and eloquently highlights the 'rules for thee but not for me'. I think for me I think it's the visual element. That you can often see an armed guard or two on camera standing behind a politician that's explaining that nobody needs guns to defend themselves. Great satire.
In countries where gun control is actually a thing, in countries like the UK where gun control is extremely strict, it is rare for a politician, whether they support the current gun laws or not, to be surrounded by armed guards.
It seems to vary a lot based on the country/region/culture. There are countries with strict gun control that are idealistic and peaceful (Japan) as well as countries with strict gun control t
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Sure not understanding where this branch of the discussion came from, but for the record, Abe was "surrounded" by armed guards when he was shot to death. If anyone (including Abe) had been quicker to realize it was a gun, then there is actually a good chance he would have survived. The first barrel of the zip shotgun apparently missed him...
So now they are sanctifying him. For not ducking?
Another safe bet: If Putin hears any loud noise, then he's the first to think it might be a gun.
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Not sure what you found hard to understand. How about wording it differently? "Putin will never prosecute himself for anything that gives him more money or power and he will also eagerly prosecute anyone else within his jurisdiction for anything as long as that prosecution helps him gain money and power."
Re: Hooray? [For what or whom?] (Score:2)
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I already said I'm not getting your point, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the value of speculative assets. If so, then it seems you're speculating on Putin's speculations, and I think that's just going down a rabbit hole. For all I know, Putin may be gambling heavily on Luna (whatever it is) on his theory that now's the time to buy. "Buy shares in Amalgamated Buggy Whips! Can't go anyplace but up!"
(And it doesn't help your credibility on the Unicode-free website when you can't hide your "sm
Re:Hooray? (Score:5, Informative)
To keep the fake exchange rate of the ruble up.
This is not the first time. For example, in the USSR, the official exchange rate was something like 1 ruble = 0.5 - 2USD (it went up over time). However, there was lo legal way for citizens to exchange rubles for dollars. This exchange rate only applied tor people returning to the USSR from abroad.
However, there was a black market where 1USD was something like 10-20 rubles.
This is being done in Russia right now. Citizens cannot sell rubles and get other currencies, all companies getting paid in foreign currencies have to convert 80% of that to rubles. The result of that is an artificially high exchange rate (1USD = 54rubles), even though people pay something like 100-200rubles for 1 USD in the black market.
People used dollars to pay each other, especially in the black market, they probably do so now as well, but also use cryptocurrencies for that (crypto probably has more value and is more stable than the ruble). Putin wants to stop this, since the law is specifically banning the use of crypto for payments (I assume you can still buy and sell it). I guess this means a lot of people are doing it (and will continue doing it)
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This was really helpful, thanks. I remember some other related nonsense in a different country back in 1997.
more stable than the ruble
This is the first time I've heard of anything's stability being compared unfavorably to crypto.
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This is the first time I've heard of anything's stability being compared unfavorably to crypto.
Yeah, it felt weird to write it too. But yeah, if you think that the national currency of your country is being propped up from reserves and the economy is heading toward collapse, crypto beings to look like a good store of value (and is probably easier to get than dollars and such, because crypto is digital and someone needs to smuggle the foreign cash in)
Bank runs and currency (Score:2)
This isn't uncommon. One of the goals of functional states is to make sure the currency is stable, and banks don't run out of deposits.
But what do happen if the state isn't functional? Currency might be pegged to trade or a resource, but if management of that resources fails, you risk extreme inflation or hyper inflation for the current possessors of the currency. Not to mention the possibility of bank runs. And the USD Is pegged to trading globally, while the RUB is for trading with Russia basically.
Now...
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Almost the entire post consists of either made up from thin air absolutely ridiculous ideas, or wrong or outdated information. Not going to debunk any of this, you could just read Moscow Times instead. Putin couldn't care less about the impact of crypto on the ruble because there's simply been none.
Lastly the "fake" exchange rate is actually not so fake [cash.rbc.ru]. Yes, banks sell the US dollar for more money than what you can see on exchanges but the exchange rate is still a lot lower than it was prior to the war (
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Putin couldn't care less about the impact of crypto on the ruble because there's simply been none.
He seems to care about crypto enough to pass a new law about it. The law specifically targets using crypto for payments. So, I guess some people are using crypto instead of rubles to pay each other for stuff and there's probably enough of them doing it that it affects Putin in some way.
As for the exchange rate - can a Russian citizen, living in Russia, exchange rubles for US dollars? I mean officially, not from "under the table". I have read somewhere that this was banned - you could sell USD, but not buy i
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For then 100500th time: it's about controlling the citizens and stifling the opposition. It has abso-fucking-lutly nothing with the economy or the national currency.
This was the case until May 2022. Now you can buy [translate.goog] US dollars/euros in any bank that has them.
Again, most of the comments here are absolutely ridiculously wrong. And people upvote
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Same thing we've seen in China. When to start to crack down hard on civil society, your young skilled workers start fleeing. Enabling this flight is ability to take money out of the country with you. One thing to moderate this flow is currency and capital controls to prevent money going out. A lot of people who could get out if they could take at least some of their money with them will not risk it if they can take out too little or none.
So you lock down your currency and prevent free exchange in it, which
Priorities! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's more important to Putin to prevent oligarchs from cashing out and escaping than it is to assist the economy by letting companies evade sanctions.
Re: Putin not the one preventing anything (Score:2)
Perhaps you should look at GDP charts? (Score:1)
Doing great finance wise unless you count GDP as a finance measure, which is tanking.
Maybe you should have looked at a chart [worldbank.org] before telling the world you don't know anything?
Russia has lots and lots of oil, which they are selling to China, India, and Saudi Arabia.
In case you were wondering why Saudi Arabia would buy oil - if you were an oil producing nation, why not buy Russia oil at a discount, then sell whatever oil you would have used yourself at a much higher price?
Even selling at a discount Russia is m
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What makes you think the oligarchs would leave if they were able to keep their assets. Putin has the long arm of his Poison Corps to keep the little bastards in line.
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Mod parent up, though I should have seen this comment before I made mine...
They won't evade sanctions (Score:3, Informative)
Hopefully he dies soon, and whoever wins the civil war will keep his head down.
Re: They won't evade sanctions (Score:1)
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This is a truly asinine comment and I'm appalled it's modded +5 Interesting.
Putin and oligarchs are the same fucking thing [imrussia.org]: stealing [wilsoncenter.org] from [rferl.org] the budget since the late 80s (yeah, for over 45 years now), there's no way he wants to prevent them from doing anything.
A ton [amnesty.org] of laws [4freerussia.org] which have been enacted in Russia recently are against the opposition and against its own people, so that they had no chance of protesting against the fucking invasion of its neighbor.
While I've been digging for all this information,
So what? (Score:3)
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> don't try to turn whatever they received into real money.
There's plenty of not-very-shady way to do that already. It's not like no one expected this sort of bulshit.
In any case "industry experts" are full of shit as usual and "officials have proven savvy in using on-chain analytics" is just laughable. No they haven't and won't ever.
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"officials have proven savvy in using on-chain analytics" is just laughable. No they haven't and won't ever.
You would be surprised what they can do with a supercomputer. Basically they turn the blockchain back into a traditional ledger. Then they run traditional analytics against it.
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Only them officials can't even imagine what a supercomputer is.
An every single one tech who could had either fled alredy, or won't ever work for the them.
Not to mention that there ain't no supercomputers for that and not a single one will be shipped there.
So no.
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The NSA certainly does though, and Russian wallets are just another entry in the ledger.
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Still buying the hype after literally thousands of people have been arrested by authorities tracking their crypto ledgers?
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We're talking about Russia here.
Besides 90-95% of those thousands were had by nonexistent opsec or unrelated leaks, not by ledger tracking.
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People will still be able to receive their payments, as long as they don't try to turn whatever they received into real money.
If you're buying an iPhone from me, I'm not going to accept cryptocurrency as payment unless I can turn around and dump it on an exchange for money I can actually use to pay my bills and rent. That's the limiting factor - eventually down the chain someone is always going to want to exchange it for real money, and if they can't, it will cause a ripple effect of others who are now also unwilling to accept crypto.
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But you can't spend those EUR or USD, you are forced to convert them to rubles at a fake exchange rate and lose some 90% of the value in the process
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If you're buying an iPhone from me, I'm not going to accept cryptocurrency as payment unless I can turn around and dump it on an exchange for money I can actually use to pay my bills and rent. That's the limiting factor - eventually down the chain someone is always going to want to exchange it for real money, and if they can't, it will cause a ripple effect of others who are now also unwilling to accept crypto.
Thats assuming the exchange you are using does not go bankrupt. Have been hearing about various crypto exchanges going poof because they are also involved in other things such as loaning crypto, margin financing for trading, etc. So even the exchange you are dealing with may decide to disable withdrawals and you get stuck.
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It isn't about controlling the wallet. It's about controlling the individual. If they know you have crypto, they can punish you (presumably).
Re: How can you sanction wallet addresses? (Score:2)
In Post-soviet russia... (Score:3)
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But you now must call it (Score:2)
A dream come true (Score:4, Insightful)
The average slashdotter welcomes this move, and urges Biden/Yellen/Powell to hurry up and be like Russia and China.
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A State that can take your crypto, can also take your guns and abortion rights. Slashdotters seem to be ok with this.
Putin Fanboys must be confused today. (Score:2)
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What, are their moms charging them for room and board?
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Well, that's the most racist thing I've read all week, I am a little impressed.
My friends in Moscow said of Putin, "We don't like him much, but all the alternatives are an order of magnitude worse so we'll vote for him again."
Russians know the cost of war, they lost 26 million people in WWII. That's the population of the 12 largest US cities **combined**.
Russia has taken control of almost all of the Donbass, which was their goal. They've been extremely light-handed so far, according to the UN civilian dea
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Well, that's the most racist thing I've read all week, I am a little impressed.
A generalization for sure, but Putin and the war still seem to be very popular in Russia.
But I am still surprised since it sounds like you've been reading Russian propaganda which can be pretty wildly racist.
My friends in Moscow said of Putin, "We don't like him much, but all the alternatives are an order of magnitude worse so we'll vote for him again."
So they're Putin supporters who want to pretend they're not responsible for his crimes.
Russians know the cost of war, they lost 26 million people in WWII. That's the population of the 12 largest US cities **combined**.
Correction, the Soviet Union lost 26 million people. Several Soviet republics including Ukraine lost a higher proportion of their population than Russia [wikipedia.org] (terrifying considering how many Ukrainians the USSR had killed
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Did you know that the sole source for the claim of "booby trapping washing machines and cars" was recently fired by the Ukrainian government? She has been inventing what's called 'atrocity propaganda' since before the war started, her most recent claim, that Russian soldiers were raping babies, was finally too much. Unfortunately the Western press who initially swallowed these stories have continued repeating her fictions.
The number of deaths will inevitably go up, since the US and UK have been supplying
Technically, this is unenforceable. (Score:2)
You cannot prevent two private parties from exchanging goods and/or services using whatever private bartering system they want to invent.
If one of the parties places value on digital assets, whether or not they may have any monetary worth, there is little that any particular regime can do to prevent him or her from accepting them in exchange for some service or good that they can lawfully provide.
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Cash only no crypto.
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Mind explaining why you think that?
Or do you just like randomly disagreeing with someone without offering even a shred of evidence to support your position?
Someone please explain this article to me (Score:2)
1. The media says that Russia is using crypto to get around US sanctions.
2. The media says that Russia is outlawing crypto.
Wtf? Is straight up doublespeak normal nowadays? Am I missing something here?
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Would you look at that! (Score:1)
Maybe after we have another 420 stories saying the same thing folks will stop parroting the "Crypto is for criminals! It's untraceable blood money!" bullshit, eh? Who am I kidding... heads will remain firmly planted in the sand.