Russia Hits Google With Fine For 'Illegal Content' (bbc.com) 189
Russia has hit Google with a $373 million fine for failing to restrict access to "prohibited" material about the war in Ukraine and other content. The BBC reports: Roskomnadzor, the country's communications regulator, said the information included "fake" reports that discredited Russia's military and posts urging people to protest. It called the US tech giant a "systematic" violator of its laws. Google did not comment immediately.
The company's local subsidiary declared bankruptcy last month. The move came after Russian authorities seized its local bank account, allowing them to recover 7.2bn roubles that the firm had been ordered to pay for similar reasons last year. [...] The fine announced on Monday, which was calculated as a share of the firm's local revenue, marks the biggest penalty ever imposed on a tech company in Russia, according to state media.
The company's local subsidiary declared bankruptcy last month. The move came after Russian authorities seized its local bank account, allowing them to recover 7.2bn roubles that the firm had been ordered to pay for similar reasons last year. [...] The fine announced on Monday, which was calculated as a share of the firm's local revenue, marks the biggest penalty ever imposed on a tech company in Russia, according to state media.
"Illegal" content (Score:5, Informative)
Such as reporting the effectiveness of U.S. provided HIMARS devastating Russian supply depots, reporting on the sinking of the Moskva by Ukrainian-made Neptune missiles, the hectic evacuation of Snake Island due to Ukraine pounding the shit out of Russian troops stationed there, the huge losses of men and material in only four months, far more than you lost in nine years in Afghanistan, and reporting the Wagner PMC is so desperate for people they've essentially abandoned any requirement. So long as you have a pulse and can hold a rifle, you're hired!
Yes, the truth is "illegal" when it contradicts your lies of everything going to plan.
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The spreading of propaganda can be the saying of something wrong, or the omission of something right.
I do like seeing Slashdotters post about all the losses Russia has suffered. But ultimately this too is a form of propaganda. You make it sound like the Ukraine is having fun at this and could end the war in a moment. Lots of talk of Russian losses. That unfortunately is you spreading war propaganda.
Yes Russia's invasion isn't going according to plan. That said they very much have control over many parts of
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I do like seeing Slashdotters post about all the losses Russia has suffered. But ultimately this too is a form of propaganda. You make it sound like the Ukraine is having fun at this and could end the war in a moment. Lots of talk of Russian losses. That unfortunately is you spreading war propaganda.
You make a very important point. Russia has a lot more logistical depth than Ukraine. Even with Western support for Ukraine, it is entirely likely that Russia can win a war of attrition.
Western don't help nearly as much as people think. For example, if Russian oil exports to the West are restricted, they sell to certain countries in the Middle East, which then re-sell to the West. The same for many other exports: the sanctions mean some middleman gets to take a cut, but the product still gets exported, an
Re:"Illegal" content (Score:5, Insightful)
Please oh please stop buying the Western propaganda. Ukraine is losing this war plain and simple, and has no hope of keeping any territory once occupied by Russia. None at all. It is only a matter of time. They score an occasional hit with weapons carefully metered out by Western "allies" who have already made the deals in the back room with Russia about how to divide the spoils.
Russia does not mind expending 3 million troops to take over a country like Ukraine, and Russia doesn't care if it takes 5 years to do it. Ukraine will be beaten to death slowly and painfully.
Great job there Ivan! Russia thought this would be a little weekend skirmish and here we are 5 months in. NATO is delighted to give Ukraine the best intelligence and latest munitions. They can give Russia a black eye without lifting a finger. I'd say Putin's war is going poorly when he's asking for the over 40 crowd to enlist. https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com] Is he following the Zap Brannigan combat strategy?
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NATO is delighted to give Ukraine the best intelligence and latest munitions.
That part is not true. If Ukraine had the latest munitions, then the war would have been over in the first month, if not in the first three days.
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give.. not gave
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Why would I want that? I want Russia to keep haemorrhaging, not to get a black eye and go home to lick its wounds.
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Welcome to international politics.
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They don't have an unlimited supply, and they did not get them on day 1. The HIMARS artillery rocket system only started working a few weeks ago, and has done a number on Russian artillery logistics. Those make a big difference, but it's not like they were given access to all the cruise missiles in the U.S. arsenal. They still have to be very strategic in where they deploy the best Western weapons, as there are only around a dozen HIMARS launchers in the country, and only a few dozen western artillery piece
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Yes and no. The West would like to provide planes in theory, but in practice it's not very practical assistance.
Biden personally said "No" to the airplanes Poland wanted to send. These were planes that Ukraine could use immediately. The Pentagon and State department were ok with the plan. Biden continues to refuse to train Ukrainian pilots in F-16s.
The west hasn't given much anti-air to Ukraine. Most of Ukraine's anti-air is Soviet era S-300s, which is giving Russia problems, because of the tactics Ukraine uses.
If we had given top-line air defense equipment, you wouldn't see have missile strikes in Ukrainian cities
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Sadly it's not going as badly for Russia as we would like. It looks like they might be able to hold parts of Ukraine, and continue attacks of civilians with long range weapons. They need to be driven out completely, and we aren't being as generous with the weapons as Ukraine would like.
Russia is screwing this up but we could still do better. Must do better.
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Is that why Russia currently controls 20% of Ukraine? I like a good news story as much as the next guy, but sadly the war while not going the way Russia wants is still very much going on Russia's favour.
Re:"Illegal" content (Score:4, Insightful)
So why does Russia seem to very intent to not let ANY bad news show up, and if you oppose their special military action, or call it a "war", you get put into jail? Russia is the new WWII Germany right now, and Putin is the fuhrer, and he knows this is true. His entire propaganda machine is 100% about keeping his own population quiet, passive, and accepting of their new czar.
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Russia is the new WWII Germany right now, and Putin is the fuhrer,
No, Russia is acting like a Mongol hoard, except this time Subetai is not around to help out.
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They're acting like the mongols' treasury???
Oh, you meant "horde"! It still amazes me that supposedly well-educated, smart people can't spell well enough to win a third-grade spelling bee...
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"Russia does not mind expending 3 million troops to take over a country like Ukraine."
Everyone knows Russia pays with blood. The price will be kept as high as possible. The world knows Russia won't stop sending more troops. They are banking on that fact. Every dead Russian soldier is an improvement to the quality of the human race.
Russians underestimate how badly the rest of the world wants them all dead.
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Putin doesn't mind. Russia minds quite a lot.
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Then it should get rid of him.
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Russia does not mind expending 3 million troops to take over a country like Ukraine,
They really do, that would suck.
Russia doesn't care if it takes 5 years to do it
That part is true, but the sanctions are going to start hurting hard before that happens.
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I disagree, that part is not true.
Russia will not suffer in the short run from the sanctions. If anything, it allows them to increase their revenue in the short run because of high gas and oil prices. But Russia is, like any developed country, very dependent on high tech supplies. And those supplies are running dry.
They already have a problem manufacturing certain weapon systems because of a lack of microelectronics. Spare parts are getting scarce to the point where scavenging other systems has started. Now
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And bleed Russia dry in the process, alienating everyone who could be a possible ally and isolating it internationally.
Pyrrhus of Epirus will be pissed that this Russian upstart steals his phrase.
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They will totally end with no gains, and loss of Crimea if the west has the stomach to keep supplying arms. And Ukrainians are learning F16 fighter jets as we speak. This will be a total route if the west follows through on what they seem to be doing.
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because the cost to recapture that territory in men for Ukraine is one they literally can't support
Why? The HIMARS and M270 MLRS seem to be doing the job quite nicely.
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You can't always get what you want...
Sooo ... (Score:2)
How to chase away all future investmnet (Score:3)
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Re: How to chase away all future investmnet (Score:3)
Too bad the other borders are now joining NATO.
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Great if you can, but how does this solve Russia's problem?
Pretty sure it's against the law (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Pretty sure it's against the law (Score:3)
They can put it into an escrow to be paid after sanctions. And that's only if Google wants to do business in Russia. If I was them, I would just leave the liability on the Russian shop, bankrupt it again, close shop, and come back later. I doubt Russia will be a huge market post war for some time.
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Unless of course Google just laughs at them and refuses to have anything to do with them until they rescind their b.s. fines. In that case, if russia tries to go to international courts to take the money from google, I expect the court will laugh at russia.
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Re: Pretty sure it's against the law (Score:5, Insightful)
What international courts are those? There is no international court for civil fines and this isn't really the kind of thing the ICC handles.
What happens normally is that after you get a judgement in country A against someone with assets in country B is you then take that judgement to the courts in country B and ask them to enforce it for you. Usually, courts respect the judgements of courts in other countries because they want reciprocity as well. However, the courts in country B can decide that enforcing the judgement would be against public policy illegall etc.. etc.. and decline to enforce it.
That's what will happen in this case if Russia tries to enforce it. But that's not the endgame. The endgame is to use this as a legal pretext for seizing Russia's google subsidiary. The government or a government allied corporation will buy Google's local subsidiary in the bankruptcy proceedings and then either loot it's IT, source code etc.. or continue to run the subsidiary but impose the censorship that Russia wants. At that point Alphabet will be unable to use it's local subsidiary anymore so it's services will be degraded in Russia as all connections will have to hit offshore servers (and I believe that also violates Russian law) and you end up cutting off google services in a way that looks kinda legitimate.
Alternative the new owners of the local subsidary may try to continue to operate google services inside russia since they have all the tech, servers and even Russian employees working for them now.
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I doubt the subsidiary has much of value other than a few servers. No source code, no encryption keys, no data that they can get at (without the right passwords). Just some servers and disks.
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What international court?
Care to cite on that Russia joined that would be applicable here?
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Pretty much this. I doubt the Russian market is worth 373 millions now, let alone any time in the foreseeable future.
Not to mention that by the time it becomes sensible to invest in Russia again, it will very likely have a very different kind of government.
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Although trying to get 373 million dollars out of an American company is one way to get around sanctions.
I assume the fine is in rubles, and that $373 million is according to the "official" exchange rate. In practice, Google can actually just go on the black market and buy that amount of rubles for about $17.47.
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The official exchange rate IS the exchange rate, no matter how much it is artificially controlled from the Kremlin.
We demand . . . (Score:2)
The mayor of a small town could 'fine' Google for something in the millions and they'd swat 'em with it, just to make it go away. lol
If google pays it, they're funding... (Score:2)
Pulled out? (Score:2)
Didn't Google pull out of Russia a month or two ago?
So they're fining an entirely foreign organization? I wonder what they've got to say about the BBC, or CNN, or .... Faux News?
But seriously though. To the Ukrainians who have a lot of hurt, and death, and vengeance -- please focus on destroying the _tools_ of russia, not the people-tools of russia. The people are coopted into it, they need a living, they need to support their family, and they found the only way that can do that .... is by waging war. They
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The "tools" are essentially indivisible from the people wielding them in the conflicts of war, and even civilians can get caught up if they are part of the support of the military. Working in a warehouse the ammunition is being stored while shipping? You're building is a target, even if civilians are in it. In a fuel depot, especially one close to the front that the tank divisions are getting their fuel from? Well
Sounds like propaganda (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no Google in Russia anymore, since it went bankrupt last month.
Why would you continue to fine an entity that doesn't exist anymore?
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Lots of countries do this, including the US. It serves a couple of purposes.
1. Unpaid fines can lead to blocks on google.com and any other Google services. Android phones might become unusable in Russia.
2. If any asset of Google's ever comes within Russian reach, they can seize it to pay off the debt. That includes IP, not just physical things and cash.
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Same reason you sue someone for an amount you know they can't afford to pay. Judgements like this go on the record. In some mythical future where the USA and Russia are now besties, Google will have to pay an entry fee into the market.
Cut Russia off totally (Score:2)
Have a banner "Putin did this" on all blocked services.
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How about a new HTTP error code? Something like "549 - Putin did this".
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Keeping the Russian people connected to the west is in our interest. Cutting them off into a Putin fantasyland is not.
Seizing Google's Russian Subsidiary (Score:2)
I think many of these comments aren't appreciating the endgame here. No, Russia isn't going to be able to collect this money from alphabet. I doubt they want to do anything of the kind.
However, what the judgment does is give them legal cover for seizing google's local subsidiary and it's IP etc.. When Google refuses to pay Russian courts will let some government crony company purchase Google's assets in Russia, i.e., it's local subsidiary. I expect the implicit threat here is that they'll take Google's
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They certainly can take that money when it's rubles held in domestic banks. So about $133 million, but in rubles. They will probably extinguish it to help keep inflation in check. (They're at 15% inflation, which is not as much at western sanctions had hoped to achieve, but it's still worse than most of NATO except Poland and Romania, who are about the same, and of course Turkey has ridiculous inflation but they started with ridiculous inflation)
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Why extinguish it when you can fabricate a reason to give it to some oligarch... or better yet, Putin's relatives.
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What IP? I'm sure the subsidiary has no IP.. other than the name "Google" which not even they would dare steal.
Too much "quotes" (Score:2)
You might disagree with the reasons for prohibiting the material being published, but it is literally prohibited in Russia, not "prohibited".
And Yes, Google violates the law there, again, regardless of Your opinion about the aforementioned law.
Putting quotes around facts that You dislike doesn't make them go away, deal with it.
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When there's this level of double-speak, you need quotes around anything pertaining to Russia.
Can't really cry over it (Score:2)
Do business in a totalitarian fascist country, what do you expect to happen?
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Depends on where in "the west" you live.
Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering that we’re freely allowed to talk about when America has started its own unjust wars, and we can (and frequently do) criticize our leaders, I'm going to call B.S. on Russia.
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And yet, he spoke his mind, and is not in jail. A procedure must be followed first, and there must be crimes proven.
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You see, it's not that he spoke, it's what he did that violated laws that he's getting in trouble for.
Sure, some of that was just words, and free speech has never allowed people to get away with certain things, like whipping up a mob, or talking that mob into an insurrection.
"Who shall rid me of this meddlesome priest", when outside of a play or other literature, that get's someone to try and actually kill somebody, is considered ordering
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Federal court records, included in NPR's database of more than 300 criminal cases, allege that at least three dozen people who took part in the riot used or possessed some kind of weapon that day.
This number is likely a low estimate of the total number of weapons that rioters brought wi
Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Interesting)
There's propaganda and lies everywhere.
And while in "the West" people who opposed the Iraq war for example weren't treated nicely by talking sphincters like Sean Hannity, and other's might have shouted at them for "hating America" and "wanting the terrorists to win", which certainly wasn't nice, that's about it. And maybe Bush and Rumsfeld had some other rude words to say about various European countries that didn't want to join that unjust war, people that opposed US foreign policy didn't get arrested in mass incarcerations.
Now some mental exercise for you: Who do you think puts a strong emphasis on brainwashing their population? Those that go as far as persecuting and incarcerating those that disagree with them, or those that mostly have mean words against their critics?
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And while in "the West" people who opposed the Iraq war for example weren't treated nicely by talking sphincters like Sean Hannity,
As a pedantic point of history, it wasn't just Sean Hannity. It was pretty near every news personality at the time.
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Probably the country who forces 5-year-olds to pledge allegiance to the flag if we're being honest.
I have always found that pretty creepy. Although, I should point out that, legally, the school can't force them to or punish them for not doing it as long as they just sit quietly. Of course, that has had to go to the Supreme Court multiple times. I'm a little scared of what would happen if it went again with the current court though. Basically, it violates both free speech and religious freedom rights. Now, in Russia (at least in Siberia for sure) they have to sing the national anthem every morning, and I'
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I'm comparing the US (where I do live, but I'm not from here) to Russia because the specific context of this discussion is Russia. It's what the article is about. I'm not sure how this is confusing to you.
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And you can add people getting upset at athletes kneeling during the national anthem being played at sports events, which also aren't even international events. Or people that are concerned with *"flag burners".
However, when it comes to the way GP phrased it as "WE in the west", you should also realize that the USA, if compared by metrics like population, is a relatively small part of the vaguely defined "West" in in these arguments. So if you mean the USA instead of also
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When it is illegal to post this picture
https://www.thewrap.com/wp-con... [thewrap.com]
Then you will know that we in the west are as brainwashed as the Russians.
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Nevertheless, it's still difficult to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As it was the American invasion of Iraq.
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I am NOT saying one of them was right, but there's a difference between stepping into the water, and doing a cannon ball while hanging onto an anchor.
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Actually it's much harder to justify the russian invasion of Ukraine in comparison to the US invasion of Iraq.
The justification was pretty similar. Make up bullshit about WMDs and national security. You'd need to construct a pretty good case that I don't see to claim that there's any difference in justifiability.
But we're certainly brainwashed to a certain extent.
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If you're going by WMDs, sure the Iraq invasion is the same. But it's not the same because they kicked out an evil dictator and installed democracy. They also made a decent attempt to prevent civilian casualties.
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I'm not saying the second Iraq invasion was a good idea. If I had the opportunity to rewind the clock and have that invasion not take place, I certainly would.
Let's also not forget that much of US foreign policy has been reactionary to the USSR trying to destabilize the world so there were often not many good choices available.
As com
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I would know it, because I called it on day one a lot of the fake narratives that persisted around the place. I can't speak for you though.
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Does your news source say "Trust us, the others are lying to you"? You might be being brainwashed.
Are you complemented for for watching there source as being a good citizen? You might be being brainwashed
When they debate issues, does one side seem well prepared and has a response, while the other side seems like some random nutter picked off the street? You might be being brainwashed.
When questions are asked and the response is to attack the person asking the question? You might be being brainwashed.
If the
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If you don't know it, you just aren't paying attention. Advertising, PR, etc. are either brainwashing, or they're just totally ineffective. The difference is that there's lots of different groups doing the brainwashing, not just one that's really dominant. The churches used to fill that role, but they couldn't agree on a party line.
Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Insightful)
You feel that some sort of brainwashing is behind Americans' support for helping a country being invaded by its larger neighbor, and that this (international) public sentiment comparable to the murderous nationalist fervor that led the Axis powers to invade their neighbors?
Can you tell me when you first became convinced that the bulk of the populous become brainwashed?
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Can you tell me when you first became convinced that the bulk of the populous become brainwashed?
What news do you read? We have ample evidence of influence from our news sources and how they "brainwash" us. We saw that in spades during COVID. People are easily susceptible to absorbing all information without fact checking. That is literally "brainwashing".
Now the question is: Is the bulk of the populace brainwashed by the same message? In the USA the answer is no. Not currently. In Russia, China, and other countries where the state control the media and thus the message seen by the populace the answer
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America isn't that noble.
Ukraine is a buffer country between Russia and Western Europe. Ukraine wanted to join NATO, which the Russians do not like, as that buffer country would be militarily backed by a powerful alliance. NATO (Which the United States is a Member of) doesn't want Ukraine to fall to Russia, as it will also loose a buffer country, and also a possible Ally.
While the US in general wouldn't support invading an other country, it doesn't get involved unless it has some national interest in it.
Re:Brainwashed (Score:4)
America isn't that noble.
Ukraine is a buffer country between Russia and Western Europe. Ukraine wanted to join NATO, which the Russians do not like, as that buffer country would be militarily backed by a powerful alliance. NATO (Which the United States is a Member of) doesn't want Ukraine to fall to Russia, as it will also loose a buffer country, and also a possible Ally....
Back to psychology while blowing away the smoke and smashing the mirrors just for a moment...
If you (Russia) aren't going to do anything to harm anyone, why would you care that a country on your border is set up for protection from invasion and harm? That's what you (Russia) would do for yourself and act all weirded out and offended if others earmarked you as an aggressor for setting up defense? Analyze both and their behavior independently. It's a common and repeat situation, that, ultra-simplified is more of a 'If I do it, it's fine but if someone else does it, it's a sign of me being behind and not seeing the danger'. AND, you only feel that way if that's how your mind is operating. If it weren't, your mind wouldn't even drift there.
If Russia didn't have plans to do something horrid in the future, or wanted to simply make the silent remark of not caring because it doesn't bother them - there would be no issue. By bringing it up as an issue with a nose raised in the air, neck straightened, and head turning to the sides and back again (yes, Putin, we can see it if we watch your microexpressions), it's projection of inner reality onto another.
No one will read this, but at least I said something to one person. :)
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Nazi! GRAMMAR NAZI!!!
Grammar fascist thank you very much... there is no indication that he is both pedantic and racist.
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Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Insightful)
Let us see:
So if you want an answer why there's a strong reaction, my best guess is that half of Europe sees Russia as a threat to themselves, that Russia has a repeat pattern of aggression, and Ukraine is able to harm Russia.
Yes, there are other factors. Some that favored inaction or a soft reaction, as in previous crises.
Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Informative)
If WE in the west are the ones brainwashed, would we know it?
Nope. And those who did figure out and point it out get modded as "troll' and "flamebait" and generally treated as traitors.
Happened in Germany and Japan, middle of last century. Is currently happening again, in many places around the world.
Actually this is a very important point. In fact, it is the core the difference between Western governments and totalitarian ones. In the West, there is most definitely lots of brainwashing, propaganda, teaching, etc. (whatever term one chooses to use), just like there is in totalitarian countries. The difference is that in the West, we can freely and opening discuss this brainwashing, criticize it along with the government, and substitute opposing views to our hearts content. This cannot be done in totalitarian countries without penalty and opposition.
The difference is not the brainwashing but rather the ability to call out and fight the brainwashing with no governmental penalty.
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The difference is not the brainwashing but rather the ability to call out and fight the brainwashing with no governmental penalty.
That depends. Does your government have a disinformation governance board that tells the social media companies whether or not to allow your topics?
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Re:Brainwashed (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is the guy that argues that Ukraine -- a country run by a jew -- is in urgent need of "denazification."
And not only is Zelensky Jewish, but he is a native Russian speaker; You know, the demographic that Putin claimed he was invading to protect.[facepalm]
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Never heard that before. Do you have proof of this claim?
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Are the brainwashers in the room with us right now?
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Cause in the "West", people who claim to be truthers, are in fact the brainwashed.
If your government is imposing censorship, either by fiat or by enforcement, no matter how much you agree or disagree with the thing being censored, you have to call into question why the thing is "bad".
In the West, the only information that universally forbidden is sexually explicit, or violent materials of REAL people. Possessing photos of those under 18 without their consent, or possessing photos of real people who have act
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What the hell is Desantis? Sounds like a disease.
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Well, there sure is no Russian saying about blowing sugar up someone's ass. They won't waste such a valuable resource on frivolity like that.