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You're Going To Have To Pay To Use Some Fancy Colors In Photoshop Now (kotaku.com) 236

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Kotaku: It's very likely you don't give a great deal of thought to where the digital colors you use originally came from. Nor, probably, have you wondered who might "own" a particular color, when you picked it when creating something in Photoshop. But a lot of people are about to give this a huge amount of their attention, as their collection of PSD files gets filled with unwanted black, due to a licensing change between Adobe and Pantone. As of now, widely used Adobe apps like Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign will no longer support Pantone-owned colors for free, and those wishing for those colors to appear in their saved files will need to pay for a separate license. And this is real life.

The removal of Pantone's colors from Adobe's software was meant to happen March 31 this year, but that date came and went. It was then due for August 16, then August 31. However, this month, people are noticing the effects, reporting issues with creations using Pantone's spot colors. And the solution? It's an Adobe plug-in to "minimize workflow disruption and to provide the updated libraries to the Adobe Creative Cloud users." Which, of course, costs $15 a month. It's Netflix, but for coloring in!

However, Pantone still states in its out-of-date FAQ that, "This update will have minimal impact on a designer's workflow. Existing Creative Cloud files and documents containing Pantone Color references will keep those color identities and information." Yet today, people are reporting that their Photoshop is informing them, "This file has Pantone colors that have been removed and replaced with black due to changes in Pantone's licensing with Adobe." Others have reported that even attaching a Pantone license within Photoshop isn't fixing the issue, colors still replaced by black, and workarounds sound like a pain.
"Graphic Design How To" on YouTube offers a workaround for Adobe users.

"Another tip suggested by Print Week is to back up your Pantone libraries, then re-importing them when your Adobe software updates to remove them, or if it's too late, finding a friend who already did," adds Kotaku. "There's a good chance this'll work, given Pantone's colors are stored as .ACB files, just as the rest of Photoshop's colors."

"Or, you know, you could just copy the metadata values of the Pantone range."
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You're Going To Have To Pay To Use Some Fancy Colors In Photoshop Now

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  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:13PM (#63007241)

    If you don't go to Stanford, you won't be allowed to use cardinal red anymore.

    How can anyone "own" a color?

    • Re:Additional note (Score:5, Informative)

      by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:19PM (#63007255)

      They don't own the color.. they own the name reference to the color.
      Apparently Adobe software has this concept of a named color where they can record the fact that these pixels are this certain named color, and not just the raw numerical values of the color channels on each pixel.

      • by lsllll ( 830002 )
        So, I'm asking because the information appears to be scant, but does that mean that you can't even input the color by RGB values without a workaround? Are the actual colors locked out? Or just named colors?
        • Re:Additional note (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Arethan ( 223197 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @07:07PM (#63007359) Journal

          It's been a long while since I've used photoshop in any serious capacity, but iirc it can go to a lot of lengths to ensure a strong correlation between the colors on-screen and how they show up in-print. It's a feature set mostly intended for graphic designers.

          A new project file from a clean install has no concept of this, so if you give it a generic set of RGB or CMYK values, it has no idea what color name that might mean.

          But, if you elect to use a named palette, and bother to go through the screen color calibration process, you can be fairly certain that what you see on screen is how it will show up on your chosen printable media (again, you'll first need to tell it the printing process and media type for it to stand a chance of success).

          Photoshop is at least an order of magnitude beyond Gimp and paint.net in terms of potential for complexity.

          If Pantone wants to enforce licensing at the project creation/editing level, that's their bean to sell. Personally, I think it's rather foolish, and they should instead be collecting at the printing stage, but again it's their decision/problem.

          • And charging at the print level is probably also in the works.
          • If Pantone wants to enforce licensing at the project creation/editing level, that's their bean to sell. Personally, I think it's rather foolish, and they should instead be collecting at the printing stage, but again it's their decision/problem.

            If one of the RGB or CMYK values was changed by one, would the colour change be perceptible? If not, wouldn't that constitute an end-run around the licensing?

          • Gimp have support for palettes as well so not sure how this makes PS an order of magnitude beyond in complexity.
            • Try getting those colors to print properly on different types of paper.

            • Re:Additional note (Score:4, Informative)

              by John Allsup ( 987 ) <<ten.euqsilahc> <ta> <todhsals>> on Saturday October 29, 2022 @09:29AM (#63008273) Homepage Journal

              Gimp basically works with RGB pixels. What an rgb value (x,y,z) refers to depends on the colour space, not just the values of x,y,z. In turn, that depends on your screen, which is why pros need calibration. The Pantone system is all about ensuring that, after all that is done, the colour that comes out at the end is the colour you intend. That sort of precision is impossible in Gimp, and for all Gimp users, is essentially unnecessary. It's only if you're working with professional printing and such that you need this.

        • A colour in this case isn't just a set of RGB (or CMYK) values, it's a name, some colour values and some metadata to ensure the colours look correct on any properly calibrated device. Also I suspect that lots of places that do printing and publishing will be able to take a file with pantone colours and ensure what comes out of their presses or printers is what the designer expected.

          • by noodler ( 724788 )

            You've basically have your arguments out of order.
            The reason pantone exists is to ensure the proper colors in print.
            The stuff on screen is just an approximation and could be way off as long as you know the print shop is going to print the right color.
            This is the point of pantone. Even if your design tools are unable to properly reproduce the color you want you can still define these colors and send them for print. It's a real-world color reference.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            It's not really about names or calibration, it's about consistency.

            If you define something as a Pantone colour in your file, and then send it to a commercial printer that supports Pantone, you can be sure that the printed copy will be that exact colour. To help with this you can buy Pantone colour swatches that are guaranteed to be correct, regardless of things like the calibration of your monitor. In fact some of those colours are beyond what most monitors can even display.

            It's used anywhere that consisten

        • Re:Additional note (Score:5, Informative)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <[ten.frow] [ta] [todhsals]> on Friday October 28, 2022 @10:54PM (#63007703)

          So, I'm asking because the information appears to be scant, but does that mean that you can't even input the color by RGB values without a workaround? Are the actual colors locked out? Or just named colors?

          it's got nothing to do with the color picker. You can input any color code you want.

          However, if you reference a Pantone color, and as a designer, you often do because then you're guaranteed that color will be that color. It's entirely possible to use a Pantone color, then color another swatch using the RGB/CMYK value and end up with two different swatches of color. The Pantone color is guaranteed to be identical across all processes and time, so if you print something out using Pantone colors, you know what you get, even if you print it out tomorrow, next week, next month, next year - the color will appear identical across all runs. If you use the color picker, there's no guarantee that that color will be identical from run to run. Pantone works with manufacturers to ensure a level of consistency and mixing that works across batches.

          It also applies to other media - plastics, for example. If you need your plastic to be a specific color, Pantone will ensure your run will be that exact color run after run after run. You can bet the big guys who have trademarks on the certain color of items have a Pantone color to go with it. I'm sure companies like David Clark, Fluke, Sierra Wireless, Lenovo and others all have Pantone colors specifying the color of their earcups, the cases, the antenna topper, the red trackpoint and other things.

          Of course, the problem could be handled better - I mean, there are options - including the conversion to raw color values and other things.

          Print is dead and so is Pantone. Hence the licensing changes. Pantone colors came from an era when you would have a designer draw a design/pattern on paper and then match physical swatches, then digitize it and have the output back to physical, and the entire design process was if not black and white at least couldnÃ(TM)t be guaranteed to keep track of or produce any specific color (screenprinting etc could only produce the ÃoePantoneà colors).

          Nowadays everything end-to-end is digital and documents and color outputs can be guaranteed with nth degree precision.

          Oh so naive. If you think Pantone is just for print, you're sorely mistaken. Pantone colors apply to everything, even manufactured goods that need to be a specific color.

          And just because it's digital doesn't mean it's exact. Inks vary in color from batch to batch, plastics vary in color from batch to batch. Paints do too. If you just specify the raw values you're dependent on the specific formulation that was used that day.

          If you use Pantone colors, you're guaranteed that what comes out is the exact shade you wanted, no matter what the variance in the batch.

          I'm sure you can probably do it by calibrating everything to the Nth degree every time you change the ink or batch or whatever, or you could just rely on Pantone to have done that for you already.

          Finally - print is not dead - just look around at all the printed material - from packaging to boxes to other things - those are the the items most likely to rely on Pantone colors than say, your local newspaper.

          • by tragedy ( 27079 )

            The Pantone color is guaranteed to be identical across all processes and time, so if you print something out using Pantone colors, you know what you get, even if you print it out tomorrow, next week, next month, next year - the color will appear identical across all runs.

            That appears to be a statement of theory. It looks like, in practice, you get the exact opposite of that. What I am curious about is what branch of intellectual property law is being used to enforce this? It can't be (or shouldn't) be copyright, since surely the color names are not long enough and, collectively, they're just a list, not a work. I don't see how it could be patent law since, aside from it being ridiculous to allow a patent on this, I'm sure that a patent should have run out by now. Of course,

            • Re:Additional note (Score:4, Informative)

              by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:32AM (#63007969)

              That appears to be a statement of theory. It looks like, in practice, you get the exact opposite of that.

              Except you're missing the obvious point. Whether someone fucks up or not isn't the issue, the issue is whether you have redress or not. If you go to and print a project with a shade of orange with a certain RGB value and the printer comes back with something that looks different, tough. You now get to argue who is calibrated correctly.

              If you go to the printer and say you wanted Pantone 723C and it comes out with a different orange you hold up the colour chart and say "this is Pantone 723C" you either re-do the job to meet the contractual obligations or you'll find yourself in court. Then you smugly smirk and walk out.

              • by tragedy ( 27079 )

                If you go to the printer and say you wanted Pantone 723C and it comes out with a different orange you hold up the colour chart and say "this is Pantone 723C" you either re-do the job to meet the contractual obligations or you'll find yourself in court. Then you smugly smirk and walk out.

                Well more likely rather than smugly smirking and walking out you put your head in your hands and weep about the fact that it's now impossible to make your deadline and your boss is going to demand to know why you didn't have them print out a sample and check it before they printed the whole run. I get the general idea though. However, that's not what I was talking about. You're missing the obvious point of what I was saying.

                What I was talking about is that now, instead of "the Pantone color is guaranteed t

                • The fuck? You do your test provide right at the deadline? It's quite clear you have no concept of how graphic arts or design works.

            • by mysidia ( 191772 )

              It can't be (or shouldn't) be copyright, since surely the color names are not long enough

              First of all they have Patents [justia.com] over manufacturing technologies that utilize the Pantone reference system to set color output.

              Secondly Trademarks and Copyrights for the references themselves.

              Thirdly contractual rights. You have to enter into a contract with them to actually obtain the color references, and they're quite expensive - Like $20 Per color chip. A full set of color chips costs about $10,000.

              Finally SOME

          • by skegg ( 666571 )

            Thank you for a wonderful explanation.
            It didn't even occur to me that the colour of something other than print (e.g. a manufactured product) might also require precise reproducibility.

            Much appreciated; thanks.

          • by rastos1 ( 601318 )

            If you use the color picker, there's no guarantee that that color will be identical from run to run.

            How so? There is Pantone color with name "Cappucino Foam" that has in Pantone system the components [red=246,green=243,blue=232]. Surely if I use color picker and enter the values and you do the same then we will be both looking that the same color (assuming calibrated device). Or not?

            So how is it different saying "Cappucino Foam" compared to saying "[red=246,green=243,blue=232]" or "#f6f3e8" ?

            • by noodler ( 724788 )

              The difference comes when you send your RGB values to a manufacturer and it turns out that the thing you ordered doesn't have the same colors as the picture on your screen.

            • by rl117 ( 110595 )

              "RGB" values are meaningless without a specified whitepoint and specified gamma curve. It's just three numbers, without any additional description of how to translate them to physical reality. That translation will be different depending upon the output medium, be it a CRT monitor, TFT-LCD display, OLED display, laser printer, web offset-printed magazine, dyed fabric, coloured plastic, paint, or whatever else you can apply colour to. Pantone unifies the colour specification for all of these media.

              Did you

        • So, I'm asking because the information appears to be scant, but does that mean that you can't even input the color by RGB values without a workaround?

          *Last line of TFS has entered the chat.

      • by quall ( 1441799 )

        Their swatches correlate to real-world color swatch books, and print vendors can calibrated to specific Pantone books. Print hardware doesn't output the color 100% the same as another vendor or printer. You generally need to perform test prints and things like that to get colors to match what is expected. Pantone swatches are designed to help with that.

        Everyone's display will show colors slightly differently as well. When you use these swatches, you can reference Pantone books to know exactly how a color wi

    • Now that I think about it my favorite song Black Hole Sun takes on a new meaning, and the video shows the adverse impact of such a world where the colors are owned by someone else

    • Re:Additional note (Score:5, Informative)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:32PM (#63007279)
      Pantone owns the color code. When colors need to match perfectly, referencing by the Pantone color code is common. Yes RGB values exist but it is more common to refer to Pantone code in manufacturering. Ie This plastic piece is Pantone 19-4052 TCX [pantone.com]
      • To take your example, 19-4052 TCX, the binary representation of this colour, if even representable, differs according to the colour space you are using. So for professional graphics, being able to say 'these pixels are 19-4052 TCX' is necessary, but for everybody else it's nowhere near as important. Those professional clients can pay through the nose because they can afford to pay as much, and can charge their clients sufficiently. I doubt I would personally need to ever refer to a Pantone colour.

      • by v1 ( 525388 )

        But color matching is automatic in a digital environment? It only really matters if something is spending time in physical print, where the ink quality, sun fading, scanner calibration, or digital camera calibration can affect the color?

        It seems more like Pantone is trying to squeeze a little last bit of revenue out of a dead technology? I think everyone would be better off if they'd defund their lawyers and instead invest that money into R&D for a new product or technology that people are going to ca

        • Colour matching is not automatic and in some cases flat out not possible digitally. Different mediums have different capabilities and many print processes have a gamut which can both exceed or fail to meet the monitor you are working on.

          How do you work around that? Well you look at your colour chart and type the named Pantone value in rendering the fact that your screen can't display the colour in question irrelevant.

          To your example. 23,116,82(RGB) would look very different for you then me since the colour

      • by tragedy ( 27079 )

        Pantone owns the color code.

        I've asked this in another post, but it seems like this really needs an answer, so I am asking here as well: _How_ do they "own" the color code? What branch of intellectual property law allows this? Pantone is not doing business as 19-4052 TCX and they can't seriously claim that literally thousands of different colors are all individually associated in the public consciousness with Pantone so I don't see how it can be trademark. Any "invention" of tying color codes to particular names would have been "inven

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          How_ do they "own" the color code? [...] Copyrighting a color is absurd.

          It's not about the individual colors or color codes.

          Copyrighting a factual list, such as a list of colors is also absurd and is a classic example of something that is not meant to be copyrightable.

          Is it really just a 'factual list' though? These are very specific colors, carefully curated. It would be hard to argue that Pantone's list of colors is anything other than a creative work.

          After all, that's the important thing here: creativity. Not all lists are, er, created equal.

          Remember web safe colors? Those were also very specific colors, but there was no creativity in their individual selection. Yes, the method by which they were selected was ce

          • by tragedy ( 27079 )

            It's not about the individual colors or color codes.

            Not sure how it's not. You have an image composed of pixels in some sort of indexed image with a color map that maps to these colors. The image editor is not mixing ink, etc. it's just representing a particular color with the color code.

            Is it really just a 'factual list' though? These are very specific colors, carefully curated. It would be hard to argue that Pantone's list of colors is anything other than a creative work.

            Yes, it is just a factual list. Consider a phone book. Those are very specific names and phone numbers, carefully curated. It's easy to argue that a phone book's list of phone numbers is a creative work. The list of Pantone colors is basically a list of catalog numbers. You

        • As far as law is concerned Adobe can add any limitation they want to their software. They had a deal with Pantone and came up with this notion of "owned" colors. It's not something possible in general but something that they two can make a contract about. They don't seem to be suing users for using those colors, so they're not claiming exclusive rights. It's just a deal between two companies. If you don't like it use other software. That's the reason competition is necessary.
        • by rl117 ( 110595 )

          You're completely free to make your own independent set of colour codes. If you want to make your own standard based upon physical measurements with a spectrophotometer, no one is stopping you.

          You're not paying for the codes. You're paying for the whole Pantone process of colour mixing, which ultimately produces the physical reference swatches for physically matching those swatches to the output of your process to ensure they are aligned and you are getting the specified colour exactly. I've done work in

  • by ChromeAeonuim ( 1026946 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:21PM (#63007257)

    "Or, you know, you could just copy the metadata values of the Pantone range."

    But that's piracy! You wouldn't download a color!

  • In anticipation of the impending doom, I have copyright the 10, 20, and 30 pixel diameter, filled circles, as well as the 100, 200, and 300 pixel lines, at 1 pixel diameter.
    • by fermion ( 181285 )
      It is more a matter of the cost being more than the product is worth. For instance, a firm I worked for paid the GIF royalty fee because we had written an engine that used it. Others, though, were not happy and a year after GIF was no longer free PNG came out.

      Apple is obviously over paying Adobe for PS, something that is no longer an integral part of the OS, she we are seeing it disappear.

      These legacy product are going away as we move to modern standards that often give us more value for our dollar.

  • Finally! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Grokew ( 8384065 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:37PM (#63007295)
    Making graphic design easy again. Everything is going to be grayscale! No more fumbling with web safe palettes. You either get a monogram, or a pictogram as a logo. Websites will start looking like plain old newspapers. Yay! Please copyright afro-caribbean rythms next, so that we can get rid of reggaeton once and for all.
  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:46PM (#63007307)

    blue green red

  • If you use a gradient that crosses through some Pantone colours, do you get black lines through it like some kind of intellectual property spectral lines?
    • by Sigma 7 ( 266129 )

      Most likely, it only applies if colors were selected by name rather than raw RGB values.

      It's not like it's going to plop in a SOPA-like black box to overwrite Pantone Black.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      This isn't about colors, it's about references to colors. See, RGB colors are really only useful for computer graphics. They're just about useless if you're, say, manufacturing something and want part of it to be a specific color. That's where Pantone comes in. I can say that I want such and such to be Pantone P 51-1 C and it will be a very specific boring beige.

      What do they consider the closest RGB equivalent to Pantone P 51-1 C? Pantone will happily sell that information to you. (They don't want yo

  • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @06:52PM (#63007323) Homepage Journal

    If you're still renting Photoshop, I don't feel sorry for you. When you don't own your software, you get whatever they give you. And this is the result.

    Next time a company tells you that they're moving a subscription model, tell them "no".

    • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Or to put it another way, if you keep working with Adobe long enough, you're bound to get bricked.

    • by jmichaelg ( 148257 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @09:33PM (#63007597) Journal

      Just try to say no. Adobe screws you anyway.

      I used to use an Adobe Acrobat utility, Distiller, to produce pdfs for my class. It was part of a series of tools that I had cobbled together over the years to generate individualized documents for each student.

      Every few months or so, my workflow would go sideways. 99 out of 100 times, it was Adobe's fault. They'd update distiller, without my permission, and screw up the settings.

      They pulled that stunt once too often last Spring. Exasperated, I finally sat down and learned how to get the same result using Python. I was so happy to purge Adobe Acrobat from my computer.

      Hello, my name is jmichael and I've been clean for 185 days.

    • ^THIS Furthermore, anyone saving their work in a proprietary DRM'ed format is even more of a fool, since you are now renting access to your own prior work, with no price or even access guarantee (could go to a million a month, or you might have to purchase an entire company in order to be able to access your prior work, should the company go bankrupt or simply shut down the service you used to rent).
  • by njen ( 859685 ) on Friday October 28, 2022 @07:06PM (#63007349)
    "Or, you know, you could just not use Photoshop"

    Fixed the last line of the summary. I use Affinity Photo: no monthly subscription fees and a low cost perpetual license. I have also gotten all my updates for free for the last couple of years. I don't usually like to give shout outs to particular products, but in this case I feel it was necessary to help as many people as possible move away from the Adobe mothership.
    • So does Affinity Photo support fixed Pantone colour references? If not then you've missed the point. You're not offering people alternatives, you're telling them to stop doing their job.

      Sorry, but especially in the industry people cannot just "not use Photoshop".

  • Use other editing programs instead?
    Dunno if Gimp supports Pantone colors, but I bet if it did, it'd still work..

  • It's a bit long in the tooth at this point, but it works great and I know it well.

    And I own it.

    Switched to PowerDirector for newer video stuff.

  • re-importing them when your Adobe software updates to remove them,

    The article mentions modification (or at least an alteration in rendering) of 20 year old files. How is that possible? Is it by modifying the application installation via an update? If so, can you get the functionality you originally had in the 90's by using an old, non-networked desktop installation of Photoshop?

  • #FFFFFF there, solved for you
  • Gotta love how all the dystopian predictions about Software as a Service that were called misinformation and conspiracy theories are coming true one by one.

    And the gap between "this is a conspiracy theory" and "this is a reality today" seems to be getting shorter.

  • They merely own special names and such for those colors.

  • ... Puke Green when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

  • Why we all got the Pentium instead of the i586?

    I get it that Adobe wants, to some extent, to "play nice" with a major player in the advertising/publishing/commercial art space where they do a lot of business, but surely there are some lawyers somewhere who can go back in time and look for precedents...

    Intel was about to follow-up their i486 with the i586, but they were getting rather honked-off by AMD rolling out each new competing chip and calling it the same thing. Intel rolled-out the i286, and AMD did

    • by noodler ( 724788 )

      This RGB24 is what Pantone apparently wants to own, or more-likely, they want a trademarked label for that RGB24 and want to control the association of that label with that number - sort of like crayola trademarking the names on the crayons.

      Nonsense. What they define is how a particular color name translates to a real world color.
      It is a color reference chart so that you can know what the final color of your product is going to be even if you don't have a proper representation of that color on your screen when you design the product.

  • It definitely looks something like only a hipster Apple user would care about.

  • I actually learned a lot about Pantone by reading replies. I've heard about it for decades, but only now do I get the utility. Pantone is clearly valuable, unless your work spends its entire lifecycle without ever leaving the monitor. Seems like if you want true cross-media consistency, this is worth paying for.

  • Shortly before finding this article, I saw an article about this site in my feed- sorry, can't find the original article. But this guy seems to have an alternative https://culturehustle.com/prod... [culturehustle.com]
  • When you send your work out for print/mfg, just include a key code that says "XXYYZZ" is actually "Pantone 032" and you can still use Pantone for press, without having the extra licensing during the design phase.

    It's ridiculous they want to charge for it during design, it's a clear double-dipping on their behalf. Pantone already charges everybody on the printing/mfg side, and now they want to charge others to calibrate to that? It seems too much.

  • When Adobe went to a "rent not own" model for Photoshop, I asked myself whether I really needed the cutting edge version. I didn't, and felt sorry for one of my best buddies, a graphic designer who absolutely did. So I hung onto my outdated version of Photoshop and started learning the GIMP. This has worked out fine for me. My needs are limited, and between the GIMP and CS6, I'm OK.

    Just a few weeks ago, my buddy formally retired. I'm going to call him later today, and we'll both have a good laugh about

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