Can a 'Virtual' Manual Transmission Bring the Stick Shift to Electric Cars? (evo.co.uk) 376
Lexus is apparently working on a "virtual" manual transmission, reports the Verge, "to find out if the stick shift can survive the electric revolution..."
British car enthusiast publication Evo reported this week that Lexus, which now leads Toyota's high-performance EV efforts, is developing a kind of shifting system that mimics the feel of a clutch and a stick shift in an electric car. Of course, it comes without the traditional mechanical connections for such a transmission because an EV doesn't need those things, but it mimics the motions involved with three-pedal driving. The company has even been showing it off on a special version of the Lexus UX 300e, an electric crossover not sold in the U.S.
Evo reports the "transmission" has an unconnected gear stick and clutch coupled to the electric powertrain, with fake internal combustion sounds and software that augments the electric torque output. In other words, it's a full-on pretend manual in an EV, complete with the "vroom vroom" sounds.... If this electric transformation really happens, being an enthusiast in the future could mean paying big bucks to simulate the things that got lost along the way.
Their headline puts it less charitably. ("Lexus could save the stick shift for EVs, if drivers are willing to pretend.")
But Evo writes that Toyota's ultimate goal is "making EVs more engaging to drive," noting it's also equipped with haptic drivers "to generate 'feel.'" Clumsy shifts will be accurately translated; you'll even be able to stall it. Toyota says it'll be able to theoretically recreate any engine and transmission combination through both sound and torque deliveries from the powertrain.... Takashi Watanabe, Lexus Electrified Chief Engineer, explained: "It is a software-based system, so it can be programmed to reproduce the driving experience of different vehicle types, letting the driver choose their preferred mapping...."
The sound being created from this sort of system is bound to only get better too, as other factors like vibrations through the cabin could be recreated by motors in the seats. This is a system used in BMW's latest high-end Bowers & Wilkins sound systems, which use vibrating motors in the seats to create more depth to the bass coming from its speakers.... It might not be the real thing, but in a future where we don't have a choice on the matter and have to drive an EV, it might be the next best thing...
Evo reports the "transmission" has an unconnected gear stick and clutch coupled to the electric powertrain, with fake internal combustion sounds and software that augments the electric torque output. In other words, it's a full-on pretend manual in an EV, complete with the "vroom vroom" sounds.... If this electric transformation really happens, being an enthusiast in the future could mean paying big bucks to simulate the things that got lost along the way.
Their headline puts it less charitably. ("Lexus could save the stick shift for EVs, if drivers are willing to pretend.")
But Evo writes that Toyota's ultimate goal is "making EVs more engaging to drive," noting it's also equipped with haptic drivers "to generate 'feel.'" Clumsy shifts will be accurately translated; you'll even be able to stall it. Toyota says it'll be able to theoretically recreate any engine and transmission combination through both sound and torque deliveries from the powertrain.... Takashi Watanabe, Lexus Electrified Chief Engineer, explained: "It is a software-based system, so it can be programmed to reproduce the driving experience of different vehicle types, letting the driver choose their preferred mapping...."
The sound being created from this sort of system is bound to only get better too, as other factors like vibrations through the cabin could be recreated by motors in the seats. This is a system used in BMW's latest high-end Bowers & Wilkins sound systems, which use vibrating motors in the seats to create more depth to the bass coming from its speakers.... It might not be the real thing, but in a future where we don't have a choice on the matter and have to drive an EV, it might be the next best thing...
Why would you want to do that? (Score:4, Insightful)
Stick shift requires more expertise and is less efficient. Sure, some "macho" types think it makes them more manly to drive manual, but that is just the usual stupidity.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
Stick shift requires more expertise and is less efficient. Sure, some "macho" types think it makes them more manly to drive manual, but that is just the usual stupidity.
Stick shifts give you greater control over your car than an electric. You can push start your car to get it to turn over if your battery dies. Also, you don't have to worry about a bad software update borking your vehicle.
Yes, driving a stick shift requires a bit more expertise, but that expertise comes in handy in many situations, particularly in snow. The number of people who have no clue what their car is doing in snow is staggering, particularly when it comes to what their wheels are doing. All they know is how to press a pedal.
Driving a stick shift doesn't make me feel "manly". What it does is give me a measure of assurance the car won't do anything until I tell it to. Also, the look on people's faces when they find out I drive a stick shift is priceless.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, the look on people's faces when they find out I drive a stick shift is priceless.
kinda made the OPs point there, you can admit theres at least some superiority complex about it.
how do you know someone drives stick? don't worry, they'll tell you
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Informative)
how do you know someone drives stick? don't worry, they'll tell you
That's a distinctly American problem. In Europe you just expect everyone to drive stick and then look confused and question how they managed to get to adult hood when they tell you they can't.
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i think you can switch it to sports mode and use the paddle but even so, it will decide on its own when to shift.
My current car is a BMW 3-series with the sport package. Totally more car than I need to commute but I wanted to scratch a 30-year old itch.
Anyway, the sport package came with sport seats, which I love, and paddle shifters, which have got to be the most useless bit of chrome I've ever had on a car. I tried them once, just for fun, and if you aren't trying to drive like a maniac bimmer a-hole, they're less than pointless.
I have a friend who takes his high performance cars to local tracks for kicks. He uses h
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Here in Denmark, ... If you get all your education and training in a automatic or EV, you are not licensed to drive stick and will only get a limited license
Same in the UK. If anything there is kudos for having auto because it means you have a more expensive car. Cars with sporty aspirations are manual because of good reasons, but no-one thinks anyone's dick is bigger or smaller because of it. It's a non-issue.
I have an auto but I'm often dissatisfied with how it changes (like changing up at a short level halfway up a hill near me, then down again a second later) and I frequently over-ride it - fortunately I can.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Informative)
I agree in case of an ICE (old fashioned petrol or diesel engine). But the article is about faking a stick shift on an electric car. Which is utter nonsense, because the EV does not have the drawbacks of automatic gearshifts in petrol cars.
Most EVs do not have gears to shift at all, the transmission has a fixed ration between electric motor RPM to wheel RPM.
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Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
I won't buy an ICE car without a manual, but this is the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time.
Definately the stupidest thing since this: Dodge's Electric Charger SRT Concept has fake v8 noise exhuasts [slashdot.org].
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the transmission has a fixed ratio between electric motor RPM to wheel RPM.
Indeed. Also, the pedals work differently.
In an ICE, the "go" pedal controls the flow of gas to the engine, so it basically controls the acceleration. If you take your foot off the pedal, you stop accelerating and coast until friction (or hills) slow you down. You need to depress the pedal to give it more gas to climb hills without slowing down.
EVs work differently. The position of the "go" pedal directly controls the speed. If you hold the pedal steady, you will maintain a constant speed, and the computer
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I would probably do the same. I would assume that the "gas" pedal controls the power or current to the electric motor. I want to accelerate slowly - push it a little bit, I want to accelerate fast - step on it. It probably would work.
So, they made it basically act in both ways. The position of the pedal determines the speed, but the difference between the position of the pedal and actual speed determines the acceleration. Yeah, that would be confusing.
Re: Why would you want to do that? (Score:3)
Ackshually... the 'go' pedal typically controls the flow of air... which is a gas ;)
Need to Copy the Right Features (Score:5, Interesting)
But the article is about faking a stick shift on an electric car. Which is utter nonsense
Exactly. If they want to make electric cars feel more like petrol cars then please let's bring over the good features, like being able to fully refuel in a few minutes, not the pointless ones like a gear stick.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
you should stop referring to a liquid as gas then
Re: Why would you want to do that? (Score:3)
We should just call it "car go juice" and "truck go juice". Force everyone to adopt the standard worldwide somehow.
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Yes, driving a stick shift requires a bit more expertise, but that expertise comes in handy in many situations, particularly in snow. The number of people who have no clue what their car is doing in snow is staggering, particularly when it comes to what their wheels are doing. All they know is how to press a pedal.
I only learned to drive a stick within the last 8 years or so - I'm not a whiz but I make out alright. And I can tell you that with an automatic transmission I've gotten cars 'unstuck' from snow ruts that I defy even the best shifter to escape with a stick.
Sometimes it's necessary to run the car forward as far as possible, brake, throw the car into reverse, immediately hit the gas, drive backward as far as possible, brake, and repeat until the car is free. It's a kind of modified rocking, where braking is n
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Informative)
You're moving an automatic shifter between 2 positions...or you're moving a manual shifter between 2 positions. There's no "impossible" about it...but like you said, you're "not a whiz"...after you drive a manual for a while, it becomes as second nature as all the other aspects of driving. Much like you don't have to think about all the little left/right steering wheel inputs...you just kinda automatically (ha) shift when you need to. You also mindlessly slip between "driving modes" too...rather than having to pick a sport/economy/towing setting. Yeah, if it was conscious mental effort, it'd be a chore...but, you get beyond it at some point.
Also, if you look at the non-casual off-road enthusiast...who are dealing with snow, ice, mud, wet rocks, slippery inclines, etc...they all lean towards manual transmissions. There are scenarios where if your hypothetical automatic suddenly decides to shift...it kinda screws you.
That being said...this "electric car shifting" sounds really, really dumb. On the level of the fake engine noises.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
See...this just shows that you're unfamiliar with "heel-toe technique"...this is a standard technique for (good) manual drivers. You just have to accept that people manage this, even if you can't. It's not an indictment...you just need to get the practice in. You're pretending like forward/reverse in an automatic, is like flipping a toggle switch...which just isn't true. A manual driver can shift from forward to reverse, just as fast.
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Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what the hand brake is for.
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"brake"
Yeah, you don't need to do that part with a manual. Just double clutch direct into reverse, Sure it shortens the lifespan of the clutch and gearing a little bit, but you go direct from forward gear, probably 2nd or even 3rd since you're trying to get out of snow and 1st has too much torque in most vehicles to make that easy, to reverse giving you more control over the wheels and a longer acceleration time while rocking.
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In snow and ice, you want to select a higher gear than normal, so you have less torque on the wheels, and therefore they are less likely to slip.
Re:Why would you want to do that? (Score:5, Insightful)
The one thing an automatic transmission really can't do is read your mind. It doesn't know you want to accelerate in a second or so in the future, or that you want there to be a little engine braking. It can't react to *intent*, only accelerator inputs. So an automatic will never be good enough for high performance driving of an ICE vehicle. But that's not a kind of driving most of us ever need to do. Automatics are good enough for any kind of utility driving and more efficient than 90% of drivers would be on a stick.
On an EV simulating a mechanical solution to the limitations of internal combustion engines have is *completely* unnecessary. Electric motors have flat power bands and "engine braking" (regenerative braking) is automatically accomplished in software as you ease off the pedal. And making it possible to virtually "stall" your vehicle is just plain silly. But that doesn't matter. The kind of car you'd put this feature on is supposed to be fun, and if simulating the quirks of a bygone era's technology is fun, it serves a purpose, albeit a frivolous one.
When someone rolls up in his Lamborghini Terzo Millenio, he's not going to want people to think, "Now there's a sensible bloke."
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A stick shift on your EV doesn't allow you to push start your EV.
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Re: Why would you want to do that? (Score:2)
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Re: Why would you want to do that? (Score:3)
As a European I've driven stick shifts for most of my life and I'm so glad I don't have to anymore. In Europe automatics used to cost extra and were relatively rare on second hand cars.
I've had one gearbox fail on me in all this time and it was a manual one. And then there was this time when my girlfriend kicked the car from 4th gear straight into 1st ripping the engine off its mounts just above Paris... That was my last manual.
Rubbish. (Score:2)
Stick shift requires driver competence, is much less complex, requires less maintenance, is less expensive to repair, and is considerably lighter than an auto, and is certainly not less efficient.
Plus the feel of being fully in control of your car.
They will take my manual MX5/Miatas gear shift from my cold dead hands, despite also having a CX5 auto, from pure driving pleasure, manual cant be beaten.
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Like a wand with a silencer (Score:2)
Why? But again I ask why? [youtube.com]
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This is a lie. Standard is still much more efficient at hypermiling than automatic if you are willing to sacrifice acceleration.
As dumb as CVTs with fake shift points (Score:2)
My current ICE econobox fakes the shift points on a CVT because people complained about "droning" while accelerating or some such nonsense. I'd be thrilled to turn it off, if the option was available. Similarly, while I learned to drive on a standard transmission, I have no feelings of nostalgia whatsoever for it. It was just one more thing to have to deal with while driving, and I was glad to be rid of it when I could afford a car with an automatic.
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Nobody needs a fully automatic car. They are too fast. What are you trying to do? Kill people?
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I drive a five-speed, but not because I want to appear "macho." To me, it's about operating machinery, something I (and a lot of other tech nerds) enjoy.
As a bonus, manual transmissions are MORE fuel efficient than automatics, not less. And they last far longer, and cost less to repair, than automatics. AND a manual transmission is a built-in theft-deterrent
.
On an electric car, the whole idea is dumb, it does nothing but add complexity. But don't assume you know the motives of all those who like driving man
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can handle greater amounts of power and torque
Ehh, is that true anymore? The fuel efficency argument has not been true for awhile, compared against modern 7-11 speed automatics (maybe a very experienced stick shift driver can out efficency it but most people will not) and most high performance and hypercars come with dual clutch automatics with the flappy paddles. Modern automatics are the not the slushboxes of yore.
Part of the appeal of electric is no gearbox so this whole concept seems silly though.
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If all you care about is mileage than you should definitely go for an auto, they have a wider spread in ratios so they can run the engine in a more efficient gear in more circumstances. Also, if you're a typical muscle car guy an auto will accelerate faster in a straight line.
I race cars on a track so I require a manual to be in the correct gear at the
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Sure, but track driving is its own thing, separate from what we talking about here which is the 99% of vehicles and drivers that never see a track. For those cars modern automatics get better mileage, provide similar performance, can require less maintenance (the oil change interval is usually equal or longer and no clutch as a wear item).
Yes they are heavier and if they break, yeah, more expensive for sure, but for most drivers automatics have a distinct advantage.
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I race cars on a track so I require a manual to be in the correct gear at the right time, your mileage may vary.
I love manuals, but to be fair, most "racing cars" these days eg Formula 1, 2, 3, IMSA, WEC, Indy, etc. all use some sort of automated sequential gearbox. A clutch pedal and stick shift are not really necessary to race cars for several decades now. But the important part is you are having fun, so cheers!
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All the racing cars are manuals, they just use paddle shifters to select which gear instead of an H pattern. It allows the drivers to not take their hands off the wheel. Hell, even Nascar is moving to paddle shifters.
They are also sequential, so you can't skip gears. And the clutches are automated too, buttons not pedals, so calling them manuals is really a stretch. Old school racing manuals - with dog rings and no synchros - are also long gone except in vintage racing.
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Next time (Score:3)
Gamers: next time some boomer tut tuts over your ten thousand dollar rig with dual joysticks and custom button panels, show them this article.
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Re:Next time (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess you could do something dumb and buy server hardware. I remember those idiots who used to go out and buy server hardware back in the day cuz they wanted the fastest computer possible and having to explain to them why they couldn't get on the internet because they didn't have a modem.
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Gamers: next time some boomer tut tuts over your ten thousand dollar rig with dual joysticks and custom button panels, show them this article.
Why? The idea of a pretend shift stick makes me wonder if this was designed by Fisher-Price. It's an idea almost a dumb as Herschel Walker. Even way back when the modern supercars started piping pretend air intake and exhaust sounds through the stereo system, few boomers want that sort of pretend macho. Goofy AF.
And a whole lot of us enjoy games as well. Just sayin.
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Oops, got the (called out nonsense, -1) mod.
I'm used to it.
Happens to me all the time, especially when I'm right.
You just touched someone's nerve while being right.
we need to go back even further (Score:5, Funny)
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Don't forget to strap a feed bag across the front bumper.
I'm a manual transmission guy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I'm a manual transmission guy... (Score:5, Interesting)
I love Koenigsegg, they do some very interesting engineering. Like the actuators that can replace a camshaft leading to unprecedented control of the engine. Carbon fiber wheels that weigh less than the rubber tires that go on them. I’d take a trip to Sweden just to tour the factory.
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Save your breath. I'm with you here, but the sad thing is that on this topic those who don't get it usually suffer under the insanely egotistical delusion that there must therefore be nothing to "get". And they'll happily tell you.
What for? (Score:2)
What genius thought of this upsell? (Score:2)
What a great idea! Fake the engine noise, fake the shifting, heck, even downgrade the electric powertrain's linear power curve to fake like it's a real gasoline-powered engine with multiple gears that goes even slower. But best of, make sure you charge an arm and a leg for all that fakery.
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What a great idea! Fake the engine noise, fake the shifting, heck, even downgrade the electric powertrain's linear power curve to fake like it's a real gasoline-powered engine with multiple gears that goes even slower. But best of, make sure you charge an arm and a leg for all that fakery.
Yeah, in the end it is all just a kludge. I'm gonna just skip the whole EV thing and stick with a real car.
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Nissan came out with their CVT transmissions but customers didn’t like the smoothness. So Nissan now makes them shift rougher just like a regular transmission. Oh and if you have a CVT don’t skimp the service intervals. Otherwise you’ll be getting a rebuild at 80k miles.
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which customers? My subaru has a very smooth CVT and I love it. Just constant acceleration from 0 to whatever.
People are stupid (Score:2)
A transmission is a technical need, not a want. The benefit of manual is direct control over the engine to operate it in the most optimal way. The benefit of auto is higher torque and less operator complexity.
Neither is a benefit to an electrical engine.
Missing the crank shaft to start the car (Score:2)
If this electric transformation really happens, being an enthusiast in the future could mean paying big bucks to simulate the things that got lost along the way.
Things that got lost along the way included a craft shaft that you need to manually turn to start the engine, and also the water tank to cool the engine, and of course, manually operated windshield wipers.
You ain't having the "full driving experience" without all those things to engage with your car! /s
When are they bringing back the buggy whips and simulated horses? Or even more macho, manually pull rickshaws?
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When are they bringing back the buggy whips and simulated horses?
My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law.....
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Or even more macho, manually pull rickshaws?
I'm waiting for the e-Palanquin.
H pattern shifters (Score:2)
Personally I love this idea, pretty cool and can always turn it off which is neat. Because it is all done via wire, a change of the center console and adding a clutch pedal is all they would need to do besides software. Of course Mercedes would make this a $149 monthly free.
Even without EV's in the equation, people are not driving stick shift cars anymore though. I am a huge car guy and the selection of new cars with manual transmissions as an option are scarce. So I don't think the people who prefer ma
Re: H pattern shifters (Score:2)
Thatâ(TM)s patently untrue. Maybe in some places like the US, but definitely not elsewhere. Itâ(TM)s probably because if we donâ(TM)t take our driving test in a manual we end up with a restricted license that only permits driving an automatic.
My sister-in-law from western Canada recently gave up after ten years here and took her driving test again. Theyâ(TM)d been finding it too difficult either ha
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I'm a brit living in the USA. I booked a manual car at the Heathrow Hertz and they assumed I must have made a mistake and subbed it with a horrible automatic (not all automatics are horrible, this one was) because my address was in the USA.
Alas the last manual gear shift car we had got totaled by an idiot in a pickup. With two EVs and an automatic van that might not be with us for long, I suspect manuals will go the way of crank start cars within a few years and I might not own one again as EVs take over.
Re: H pattern shifters (Score:2)
Yeah, manuals will disappear for sure at some point. 50% of new car registrations in London are now for EVs. With the ICE ban coming up in seven years, maybe my son will never drive a manual or an automatic!
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Yeah, manuals will disappear for sure at some point. 50% of new car registrations in London are now for EVs. With the ICE ban coming up in seven years, maybe my son will never drive a manual or an automatic!
My offspring learned to drive in an EV and has never driven a non EV except as a one time try out.
Cursive (Score:2)
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Sometimes things are so simplified they get boring. EV driving will be just that. I don't currently have a standard transmission, but sometimes I put my auto in sport mode and shift it just so I can stay more involved and don't lose focus. I did the same thing in college too; my classes were so mind numbingly boring that I went back to cursive writing after printing things for years. EVs will be very dull, being able to shift may keep driving fun.
Most of the cars I have owned in my life have been manuals. My current one is an auto with paddles and manual mode and I have to say it is pretty good. Even after a lifetime of experience it shifts faster than I can. Way back I used to pretend to be Senna. Now I channel my inner Hamilton.
Why fake it? (Score:2)
Nothing prevents you from putting a transmission on an EV if you really want to, the Porsche Taycan already has one.
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Nothing prevents you from putting a transmission on an EV if you really want to, the Porsche Taycan already has one.
The Taycan design is trading efficiency for fun. Probably a reasonable trade off for a sporty, overpriced car.
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WHY! (Score:2)
What I really want.. (Score:3)
After driving manual Volkswagens all my life. I like the one speed reduction transmission in my eGolf.
Please make the e Brake work like a Hand Brake!
I like hand brake turns.
Cyril M. Kornbluth had it right... (Score:2)
Read the story "The Marching Morons" to see how prescient he was in 1951.
(And to see where "Idiocracy" came from, too.)
Can they make it go like a rocket ship? (Score:2)
Or maybe a horse and buggy, as long as we are playing pretend.
I don't want to go that far back (Score:2)
Sure but I don't want to go that far back. I haven't driven an EV, but I've heard others say the accelerator feels a little too much like a straight-linear "volume control". As the driver of an ICE automatic, I'd like to see the controller on an EV emulate the "engine braking" you get with an ICE--not fully engaging when you take your foot off, but slowly ramping up the regenerative braking based on your speed. Forgive me if they're not already doing it. What happens if you take your foot off a Tesla at
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>What happens if you take your foot off a Tesla at 70 mph?
It slows down, using regen, like you want it to.
EV driving is not really different. It's a bit different, a lot smoother, quieter at low speeds and a common thread with EV drivers is they have no plans to go back to ICE cars - so the experience is pretty compelling.
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My EV has a lot more "engine braking" than my ICE car with a CVT transmission. My Nissan Rogue just free-wheels when I let off the gas, and the 1.8L engine has so little braking that forcing a downshift just spins the engine faster with no increase in braking. My Kia Niro, OTH, slows down significantly when you let off the "gas." You can drive all over town and never touch the brake, if that's your idea of a good time.
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Many if not most EVs let you set the regen level, if not from a range then at least from two or three options
Piped in noise (Score:2)
Problem (Score:2)
How are Dads going to tell their kids "the car is not a toy" when it has realistic pretend shifting action and makes pretend engine sounds?
Just. So. LAME! (Score:2)
Seriously, this is like playing an arcade sniper game and somehow convincing yourself that you've managed to repeatedly hit the bullseye at a thousand-yard rifle range. I'll just shake my head and laugh derisively the first time I see one of these.
Seriously (Score:2)
The pedal is supposed to determine how fast you want to go. And yes, I know stick can be fun — except when driving in traffic, but that does not mean I cannot objectively see that stick shift was the result of technological shortcomings.
Dumbest thing I ever read! (Score:2)
I love a stick. I have driven sticks for over 50 years. The first car I owned was a stick. These days I drive an EV and would not want a stick in it. Emulating a stick with a computer is utterly stupid!
Clutch pedal emulation (Score:2)
I wonder how the clutch pedal simulation will work. A large part of the advantage of a manual car is the ability for the driver to precisely modulate engine torque according to the actions of both feet. Modern electric motors can very precisely apply torque, so having an additional set of inputs controlling the motor could mean a new type of driver involvement for EVs. This is an interesting example of skeuomorphism
No thanks (Score:2)
We already have CVTs that have fake gears, and electric muscle cars that make fake V8 noises.
I don't drive a manual transmission because it's fake. I drive it because I know my actions are doing something meaningful and the response I get from the car is genuine. Driving a manual isn't about being "manly" -- it's about understanding and appreciating the engineering that went into the car. Also, it's fun.
When electric cars stop faking being good, and are actually good, I'll buy one. As long as they are s
Increase the fun, not the nuisance. (Score:2)
Seems like most everyone agrees that an imitation transmission adding artificial weaknesses to an electric motor is a dumb idea.
However, that still leaves the fun factor of "feel" - which I would say maybe is worth simulating. There is something... uninspiring... about the whine of an electric motor compared to the roar and rumble of a similarly powerful ICE engine. That part I could definitely see simulating so you can "feel the road". Even in racing simulator cockpits, that engine rumble in your chair
Gasoline and exhaust scent injection (Score:2)
Attempted Before? (Score:2)
I feel like around 10-20 years ago, before the EV craze, one of the major manufacturers showed off a prototype of an encapsulated universal drivetrain -- no mechanical connection to the driver's cockpit, purely software driven, and saying the plan was to use this throughout their fleet and simulate the "feel" of all their different models via software. Don't think it went anywhere. What manufacturer was that?
Such a monumentally stupid idea.
God please let this be a joke. (Score:2)
I enjoyed driving mechanical transmissions because for many years they were more efficient and higher performance than automatics if you developed the necessary skills. When that ceased being true I bought automatics. I can still see a retro appeal to driving a car with a real manual - same reason som
Yes, but it would be stupid (Score:2)
The only electric vehicles where a multi-speed gearbox is even desirable would be rock crawlers, and few people are seriously considering such things because of the back country refueling issues. It's unfortunate because electrics offer obvious benefits in this regard. There are videos for example of the Rivian R1T going places that are difficult for gassers, for example over loose rock. Having per-wheel electric motors means unparalleled traction because of the response time benefits... and it doesn't real
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Seemingly all modern electrics have regen braking that functions like engine braking. I don't think they have a minimum amount of torque they're pushing at idle either, so there's no need to bleed off torque by holding the clutch in midway in traffic.
The problems a manual transmission solves don't exist in an electric drivetrain to start with.
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Seemingly all modern electrics have regen braking that functions like engine braking.
Yes. And as a result of vastly increased use of regen in normal driving they also tend to have wimpy ass mechanical brakes. Good enough around town, but for serious driving the brakes on many EVs are highly inadequate.
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If you're going to do serious driving, the brakes are usually the first thing you want to upgrade anyway. Unless you mean the sort of "serious" driving you can safely do with a factory-fresh stock vehicle.
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If you're going to do serious driving, the brakes are usually the first thing you want to upgrade anyway. Unless you mean the sort of "serious" driving you can safely do with a factory-fresh stock vehicle.
Well yes, I was talking about stock vehicles. EVs have lots of torque and some are quite fast. That should mean better brakes by default, but that is often not the case. A 0-60 in 2.5 seconds Tesla Plaid should have brakes like a McLaren or Pagani. But no, that is not even close. Some people can't even mod them properly lol.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/n... [roadandtrack.com]
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Or you can let the engine help brake you...
It should be pointed out that you can do that quite easily with an automatic; even the four-speed slushbox in my twenty-five year old Ford can be downshifted easily enough. (Perhaps it's time to get out of that chair and get a driver's license.)
To be fair, the spirit of your post is correct enough: automatics do suck - except for rock crawling.
My Jeep Renegade and the Wife's Cherokee with their 9 speed autos will automatically downshift to brake if you are heading downhill with no gas pedal action and you accelerate over some limit. First time it happened, I thought the transmission had broken, now it's a feature I like, because the 9 speed CVT's are really easy to speed in, because they'll do speeds like 75 at less than 2000 RPM.
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Weird, I wonder if that's something they inherited from Benz or from Fiat.
Our 2006 sprinter downshifts automatically to increase engine braking while coming to a stop. The transmission used in the W126 300SD doesn't downshift until you rev match with your foot...
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The only reason they want to do something like this is to further the American addiction to the automobile. Car manufacturers will eventually be sued just like cigarette manufacturers for making an addictive & destructive product.
Think about it: how many of you ACT like your car is an extension of yourself? As cars are incredibly destructive, why is this a good idea?
That's right: it's so the car company can sell you another car...
Cars give you the freedom to travel, where you want, when you want, on entirely your own schedule. I can go to untold places no buses, trains or planes can take me, right now if I desire. And I frequently do.
If you are content in just your own anthill that's fine, but many aspire to more than that.