Tesla Model Y Is Now the Best-Selling Car In All of Europe (electrek.co) 95
Tesla Model Y became the best-selling car in all of Europe in November. It's for the second time, and not just for electric vehicles, but all cars. Electrek reports: According to data from Automotive News Europe, Tesla delivered nearly 20,000 Model Y vehicles in Europe last month: "Tesla sold 19,144 units of the premium midsize SUV, a gain of more than 260 percent on the same month last year. It was a big rebound for the electric model after it fell out of the top 50 in October, just one month after finishing as Europe's overall top-seller."
December is expected to be an even bigger month based on early data coming in. For example, Tesla has already delivered 5,000 Model Y vehicles in Norway alone in December. The Model Y's rise in popularity in Europe coincides with Tesla ramping-up Model Y production at Gigafactory Berlin. The automaker recently confirmed that the factory is now producing 3,000 Model Y vehicles per week. All those vehicles are for the European market, and Tesla also ships cars from Gigafactory Shanghai to Europe.
December is expected to be an even bigger month based on early data coming in. For example, Tesla has already delivered 5,000 Model Y vehicles in Norway alone in December. The Model Y's rise in popularity in Europe coincides with Tesla ramping-up Model Y production at Gigafactory Berlin. The automaker recently confirmed that the factory is now producing 3,000 Model Y vehicles per week. All those vehicles are for the European market, and Tesla also ships cars from Gigafactory Shanghai to Europe.
The Model X (Score:1)
Re:The Model X (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure if $121K is "not that much more money" than $66K. What's 83% more, right?
But hey, being only the second worst car sold today is worth the extra money, even if it's easily the ugliest. That is, if the Model X is actually a "much better vehicle" considering that it is the worst quality vehicle Tesla sells. At least it has an instrument panel, even if its rear doors like to get stuck open in the rain.
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My listed battery capacity (miles) has dropped more than I would have expected (~3-4%) in 2.25 years, but they did a few software changes that make direct comparisons hard.
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And when I think of all the times my gas tank has been only 3-4% full. Maybe 3 times in my life. Yeah, I was a dumbass TWICE and ran out of gas. I almost ran out of gas a third time and the trip computer said I had about 2 miles left before I could get to a gas station.
It always amuses me when EV-haters say you'll run out of battery and need to be towed or carry a generator with you.
I'm not proud of running out of gas. How does one run out of gas when they have a 40 gallon tank? It's easy. I didn't p
Re:Battery degradation issues? (Score:4, Informative)
Charging speed and range anxiety are what people talk the most about, including me, before they get their first EV and it can be relevant if you drive a lot everyday and don't have private parking.
But with my own carport with charger, less than 100km a day roundtrip to work. it is never an issue. Granted, Tesla have an awesome network so when I do go cross country or through Europe, I really don't have to worry. Since I drive alone on vacation, I need to stop every 3 hours anyway and I run out of energy and bladder capacity before the car runs out of battery.
I see Tesla keeps adding massive amounts of superchargers, they are really aggressive with the amount of stalls and locations.
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Charging speed and range anxiety are what people talk the most about, including me, before they get their first EV and it can be relevant if you drive a lot everyday and don't have private parking.
But with my own carport with charger, less than 100km a day roundtrip to work. it is never an issue. Granted, Tesla have an awesome network so when I do go cross country or through Europe, I really don't have to worry. Since I drive alone on vacation, I need to stop every 3 hours anyway and I run out of energy and bladder capacity before the car runs out of battery.
I see Tesla keeps adding massive amounts of superchargers, they are really aggressive with the amount of stalls and locations.
How long does it take to charge up enough to do the next 3hrs?
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I live on an island and it is hard to use more than 160km of range in a day. That said, I do get range and charging anxiety every so often. My issue is the last real charging opportunity is 25km from my home, and I have a habit of trying to self-consume my solar production and not keep the car over 70% charge on "normal" days. My real challenge is after doing a "long" trip and needing to do another 60km to go into town unplanned.
There's only been one time though where I got home with less than 40km of ra
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But with my own carport with charger, less than 100km a day roundtrip to work
That's close enough to my situation that an EV would suit me just fine and I think it would for a lot of Americans.
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I won't judge you, but I have no excuse like that. On the other hand, running out of gas is a very good incentive never to do it again.
Re: The Model X (Score:1)
Also in the EU you can buy the base model, RWD, 455km WLTP, 6.9 seconds to 100km/h. That one is less expensive. For example, here it costs â51000, which includes 21% VAT, so its US price equivalent would be around â42000, so about $45000. For some reason its â2000 less expensive than the model 3.
The model X costs â145000, nearly three times as much.
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Re: The Model X (Score:4, Funny)
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Unless you go for the plaid which is amazing.
The Plaid is the *only* model available in Europe presently with the dual motor being available for order (not delivery) sometime next year. You're literally talking about something over 3x the cost.
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Addendum: It's dropped recently, but still worth much more than I initially paid.
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Addendum: It's dropped recently, but still worth much more than I initially paid.
wow, you must have bought in quite early
Re: NASDAQ: TSLA (Score:2)
Re:NASDAQ: TSLA (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't that stock down something like 70% this year?
Your idea of a stock "doing well" is certainly different than mine.
Re:Wait a few months (Score:5, Insightful)
That's mostly leftist hatred for what he's doing to Twitter.
The fundamental problem for Tesla with Musk shitting all over leftists on Twitter is that right-wingers don't buy EVs. Musk is shitting directly in his food bowl.
Looking at the Tesla press coverage now compared to a year ago and it's a complete turnaround: a year ago Tesla was the saviour of the world, going to wean the world off of gas and into cleaner energy. Nowadays it's all trash articles stating matter-of-factly how Tesla is well known as the worst vehicles, worst quality control
They do have poor quality control, nobody can really question that. The service situation is terrible, and deliberately artificially created. I never have been able to understand how any self-respecting nerd can possibly feel okay about Tesla's stance on your car being their car, but then, it's really no different from using Apple stuff though, I guess.*
Wait a few months (like, 7 months) and see. Tesla started shipping the electric semi
Which, as it turns out is really terrible from a UX standpoint. Not being seated on the left side of the vehicle is actually horrible for passing, interacting with tolls and gates, etc, and the location of the door is an inconvenience as well. Surprise, surprise, Tesla knows nothing about what they're doing in this market and didn't partner effectively with anyone who did. Other companies have been shipping electric semis, Tesla is late as usual.
Speaking of...
the cybertruck should start shipping around that time
I doubt it very, very much.
Despite my general disdain for Tesla today, I don't think they're going to vanish in a puff of logic or anything like that. They will probably still be with us for quite some time. But Tesla isn't alone any more, they have a lot of serious competition now. If not for that, Musk acting like an idiot probably wouldn't be such a problem for Tesla, but he just doesn't seem to be able to help himself. You know why so many people can believe Warren Buffet's kinder and gentler propaganda? Because he's not constantly shooting off his mouth.
* What's interesting/sad/weird/funny is that back in the classic MacOS days, Apple stuff was actually highly hackable. Many if not most models came with the "programmer's key" plastic bits that let you hit the hidden reset and debugger switches. The tool for manipulating "resources" was readily available, and you could even plug a decompiler module into that and inspect the code resources.
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It's always been volatile. Long-term, TSLA is the second best performing stock in my portfolio (and they're all doing well, it's not in that place because the rest is trash).
Not looking at weekly or monthly movements has given me peace of mind. If you gamble, of course, these rapid swings make you nervous.
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One of the few stocks I own that's doing well. Most are duds.
You mean, the stock that's -70% YTD?
In a normal company, shareholders would've already ousted the CEO in charge of that mess.
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Not Surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorta like how the Commodore 64 (Score:2)
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Didn't the Raspberry Pi finally beat the Commodore 64's sales record a few years ago?
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It did, IIRC.
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(It did but it accomplished this partly by being significantly cheaper, even not adjusted for inflation. The base C64 package retailed for something like $800 in 1980's dollars.)
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(It did but it accomplished this partly by being significantly cheaper, even not adjusted for inflation. The base C64 package retailed for something like $800 in 1980's dollars.)
Initially. They dropped in price quite significantly over time, which led to the incredible sales. They are incredibly affordable.
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And that's assuming you didn't buy a disk drive. Early computers needed a ton of hardware in the disc drives for them to work. The commodore 1541 was practically a computer in and of itself.
I had a commodore in 1988 and the base unit with a disk drive was around $300 and another $100 for a monitor. Although immediately I could have lived
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Even at its lowest the commodore 64 was still selling for around 3 or $400 if you adjust for inflation and that would have been by the time the Sega Genesis was out.
My first C64 for around $500. My second one was low $200s. Just the computers.
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Also don't forget to adjust for inflation. If you were paying $200 for a commodore 64 I'm guessing you were picking that up in the 90s and even then you were probably spending at
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Yeah but again you need to throw a disc drive in there if you're an American.
That's why I did not challenge your $800 figure. I am only challenging your suggestion that the C64 itself got down to $300-$400. It got to low $200s. Drive prices also went down but not as dramatically. Also their were bundles when buying computers and drives that reduced the overall price.
Also don't forget to adjust for inflation.
The important thing is not to mix unadjusted and adjusted numbers, to have a relative comparison. For example C64 $600 down to $220, Apple //e consistently around $1,200.
If you were paying $200 for a commodore 64 I'm guessing you were picking that up in the 90s ...
Nope I was a C64 developer. Bought the first one e
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Early computers needed a ton of hardware in the disc drives for them to work. The commodore 1541 was practically a computer in and of itself.
It was unusual in that regard, though. Most early home computers just dedicated CPU time to floppy access instead of having a disk drive as powerful as the computer itself.
God help you if you wanted an Amiga or Atari ST. You'd be looking at 500 to $700 in 1988 or 89. Inflation adjustment well over a grand.
When I got my Amiga 500, which was towards the end of the cycle, the price with three software titles and the RF converter was US$599. I remember it came with Chessmaster, which was kind of a big deal at the time I guess. But a branded external floppy drive for it was like $199, and the expansion to 1MB was $99.
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Yeah, they're hard to get right now, but AdaFruit just shipped some RPi 4B 2GB models today. It's a pain to wait on the back order list, but they are still shipping in small quantities.
PiShop.us has RPi 4B 2GB kits for sell, in stock, at this time. It takes a little searching but there are small quantities available in kit bundles.
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20 or 2 offering is irrelevant, consumer picks 1 (Score:2)
Most manufacturers produce a large number of models, i.e. BMW is approaching nearly 20. So its not particularly interesting that a manufacturer that concentrates all its sales into a couple models has the most popular model.
No, whether a manufacturer is offering 20 or 2, is irrelevant. It's up to the consumers to decide which car is the best for them. BMW had 20 chances to get it right, Tesla had 2. The surprise is that Tesla got it right given BMW's extensive history in the European market. BMS literally has the home field advantage and one would expect them to better understand the local consumers, but no, they seem not to.
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BMW is too greedy. They wanted to rent the heated seats to me in my own car. That's just fucking stupid. And tacky.
Not that Tesla is much better... They wanted thousands of dollars extra to enable "full self driving," which still hasn't really achieved full self driving anyway.
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Most manufacturers produce a large number of models, i.e. BMW is approaching nearly 20. So its not particularly interesting that a manufacturer that concentrates all its sales into a couple models has the most popular model.
No, whether a manufacturer is offering 20 or 2, is irrelevant.
It's actually a relevant issue because how one dices up the namespace significantly affects the counts. It's like how the definition (size and alignment) of histogram buckets significantly affects the bucket counts.
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Most manufacturers produce a large number of models, i.e. BMW is approaching nearly 20. So its not particularly interesting that a manufacturer that concentrates all its sales into a couple models has the most popular model.
No, whether a manufacturer is offering 20 or 2, is irrelevant.
It's actually a relevant issue because how one dices up the namespace significantly affects the counts. It's like how the definition (size and alignment) of histogram buckets significantly affects the bucket counts.
Not for the metric, "best selling car". When people buy cars they are not limited to some brand namespace. They look at multiple brands and multiple vehicles within those brands. Then they choose the one car with the best fit for their needs.
BMW having 20 models means BMW had 20 chances to get the best fit with a particular buyer. Tesla with 1 model had one chance. Having that one model beat each of the other 20 models is very significant, quite the achievement.
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That's not how it works. If the consumer's choice is split into many different subsets from the same manufacturer of nearly identical vehicles then that particular model's market share is diluted. Tesla only offers one vehicle to each customer in a specific class. So if a customer buys a Tesla it's that model that gets chosen. You personally want an SUV, you personally want a Tesla then it is the Model Y. Done. End of decision making.
I personally want an SUV, I personally want a BMW. Okay now do I want elec
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Which is more important? Neither, one is a ranking of apples, the other a ranking of oranges. Which matters more to you and why it matters are subjective questions.
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Let's talk total numbers.
BMW Sales Data & Trends for the European Automotive Market [carsalesbase.com] says that BMW sells about 50K cars in Europe in October.
Tesla sold 20K "last month" (November?) of Y model.
Tesla Sales Data & Trends for the European Automotive Market [carsalesbase.com] shows wildly varying figures for different months of 2022, for example, Sep is 42K (comparable to total BMW sales, but lower), October is only 6K and Aug is 10K, Jul is 2K.
BMW figures variate between 40K and 60K.
According to the posted websites, annual
Not 1 of 11 vs 1 of 1, its really 1 of 12 (Score:2)
That's not how it works. If the consumer's choice is split into many different subsets from the same manufacturer of nearly identical vehicles then that particular model's market share is diluted.
You seem to be erroneously suggesting some sort of manufacturer lock-in. The consumer choice is actually all models from all manufacturers. If someone want a 4 door sedan, even if their first thought is BMW, they also tend to take a look at Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, etc. And more recently also Tesla.
Tesla only offers one vehicle to each customer in a specific class. So if a customer buys a Tesla it's that model that gets chosen.
And yet that one Tesla competes against all models from all other manufacturers in that class. The winner is base on whoever best fits the customers desire.
Best selling is best selling.
You personally want an SUV, you personally want a Tesla then it is the Model Y. Done. End of decision making.
I personally want an SUV, I personally want a BMW. Okay now do I want electric which gives me an iX or the iXM, iX1, iX3, actually no maybe a hybrid, XM, X1, X2, X3, or X5, or maybe I prefer a good old fashioned diesel where I still have choice between an X6 or an X7. Literally 11 consumers would each need to pick a different BMW to put their SUV offering on the same level as Tesla's SUV offering.
Literally 11 chance to get
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No, whether a manufacturer is offering 20 or 2, is irrelevant. It's up to the consumers to decide which car is the best for them. BMW had 20 chances to get it right, Tesla had 2. The surprise is that Tesla got it right given BMW's extensive history in the European market. BMS literally has the home field advantage and one would expect them to better understand the local consumers, but no, they seem not to.
One could argue all those BMW drivers did not have to make as many compromises and got vehicles that were closer to thier ideal. They did after all ship 2.5 million cars in 2021, compared to under a million for Tesla.
Sure, but "best selling brand" and "best selling car" are two very different metrics. The former does not take away from the latter.
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Guy who lives near me got one. White of course. It's really, really loud.
We know every time he comes or goes because the UFO noise it makes is cranked up so high. I was actually thinking of asking him if it was calibrated properly or if every Model Y is like that. Personally I couldn't live with it, but maybe he can't hear it from the inside.
Re: Not Surprising (Score:2)
The government mandates that noise, otherwise they'd be totally silent.
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Other EVs have less annoying sounds, including mine. For some reason the Tesla one is extremely loud and annoying.
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Ironic, eh? We spend 100+ years developing better and better ways to muffle and insulate from the noise pollution generated by cars, (Hell, in the '90s, it was trendy to load up your shitbox Civic or Cavalier or Geo with ear-bleeding levels of amplifiers and speaker boxes. A friend of mine actually got ticketed once for too loud a stereo.) only to begin mandating artificial noise pollution now.
FTFY: Tesla Model Y Reaches 2% of Sales In Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Europe sells around 12,000,000 cars per year, so 1,000,000 per month. Tesla sold 19,144 in a month, and maybe it was a glitch due to fluctuating imports from China.
Good news an electric car is doing well, but not sure how much you can take from it. Maybe other manufacturers just have more models for instance.
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You have to look at the growth rate too. Nokia said the same thing about Apple in the first 2 or 3 years after the iPhone was released.
Re:FTFY: Tesla Model Y Reaches 2% of Sales In Euro (Score:4, Interesting)
The summary and article jumps around a bit - orders are not necessarily deliveries, and deliveries are not necessarily orders.
Tesla has long preorder wait lists - so they “sold” a bunch of these deliveries well before last month, they are just counting them as “orders” when they actually deliver them.
Given the Tesla model here dropped out of the top 50 the month before, it makes sense that if they do not have a smooth production flow then they will see spurts of deliveries - meaning they can make headlines such as these after having a severely bad month for deliveries the month before
Basically, this is a forced headline rather than actual news.
Re: FTFY: Tesla Model Y Reaches 2% of Sales In Eur (Score:2)
this post is in Elon's twitter feed (Score:5, Interesting)
Elon Musk follows 69 twitter accounts. [businessinsider.com] Slashdot is one of them.
Sometimes, Musk posts a comment on a Slashdot tweet [twitter.com], raising its profile on twitter and driving some amount of traffic to the site.
FTX disappears at MOST $10 billion in customer funds. Slashdot posts no less than 40 stories with "FTX" in the headline over the past two months.
Tesla market cap disappears $900 billion in investor wealth within a year. [ycharts.com] Slashdot posts an article with a cherry-picked statistic about a single model of Tesla outselling all other single models within Europe.
Number of slashdot posts about a software engineer being fired [yahoo.com] because he publicly disputed claims made by the owner of twitter on twitter: zero.
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FTX disappears at MOST $10 billion in customer funds. [...] Tesla market cap disappears $900 billion in investor wealth within a year.
That's not how any of that work.
FTX was a scam and that money is gone. At best, the scammers have it.
TSLA is a stock that goes up and down and its price changes. The "value" of a company on the stock market is price x stocks - but that's just a number. If you own a small shop and sell candy at $1 a piece, and in the days before christmas people are happy to pay $2 a piece, the value of your inventory didn't magically double. Sales is still what matters and only the inventory you can actually move at that pr
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Money lost is money lost. It doesn't matter if it was with a stock, or a security.
It matters if it was actual money someone paid for something or a purely fictional value at a certain time. During the dot-com era, me and most of my co-workers (yes, I am that old) were millionaires - on paper. Except that the options hadn't vested yet and we couldn't cash in and by the time we could the bubble had burst. Did we each lose a sweet million?
but Europe doesn't like it when their domestic products are one-upped, especially car makers, so expect regulation or even punitive tariffs.
Tesla now has a Gigafactory in Germany. So tariffs won't hurt it.
Overall, cryptocurrencies brought a lot of capital into the world.
How? Where was any wealth actually created?
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Automakers (Score:2, Insightful)
Automakers still don't catch on to the coming shift. We've seen this with computers. IBM missing the PC boat. Altavista missing Google. Barnes & Noble missing Amazon. Walmart missing Amazon. RealNetworks missing the iPod. Nokia, Blackberry, Motorola, and Microsoft missing the iPhone. Myspace missing Facebook. Traditional automakers are simply not able to compete with Tesla. They don't get it. Their projected ramp up times are greater than Tesla needed to start from scratch. They are talking about dates
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> No way any of them can survive that long
People with brains can drive not smart EVs.
Tesla's days were numbered once Porsche EV showed up.
Nokia phones with buttons are still in shops for people who do not need touchscreen phones.
> IBM missing the PC boat.
Tesla will miss car boat just like Apple got pushed out of mainstream PC market.
Re: Automakers (Score:2)
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Automakers still don't catch on to the coming shift.
Cars are unsustainable, electrification doesn't change that, it only makes them slightly less terrible. Tire dust accounts for 50% of marine microplastics. Self-driving is a dumb dream, we've had the technology for guiding vehicles reliably since the 1700s and it is called rail. T
They have no means to produce electric cars, and even worse their cars suck. No ADAS features, no self driving vision. Nothing. How are they supposed to compete?
Tesla's self-driving tech is designed around a stupid idea (avoiding using LIDAR, which is only getting cheaper) and they are going to have to take a significant step back when they finally integrate it.
Every major automaker is wor
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Nah... There's plenty of room for auto manufacturers besides Tesla.
For starters, not everyone wants their car to do the driving for them. Adaptive cruise control and (since B and C pillars have grown so monstrous) blind spot monitoring are really all the drivers assistance. I care for. If there's more, that's fine... though I wouldn't pay for it unless it were required as part of a package with features I do want. But the lack of autopilot or full-self-driving otherwise means nothing to me and, I would
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Something else worth pointing out is that for all competitors of Tesla, with the possible exception of Nissan and BYD, their EV market share growth is at the expense of their existing ICE product lines.
So for Ford, GM, VW, etc, growth of their EV sales doesn't mean their company is growing. Worse, their profit margins will suffer because their EV product lines are more expensive to build and they have to keep their price to customers competitive.
None of that is true for Tesla. Not only are new sales
As someone living in Europe (Score:2)
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> except for Tesla, where it is in the range of 4-6
> months usually (sometimes even less, if one's
> lucky).
Remind me again... When exactly were the Roadster 2 and Cybertruck announced? Or did you just misspell years there?
Re: As someone living in Europe (Score:2)
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How does a person even buy a new car if the wait is 2 years. I have one car. If it breaks down i need another car soon. I can't wait 2 years, i would much rather just buy a used car and drive that into the ground.
Want vs need.
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Do you need a new PC or just want one? New pair of jeans?
Food? Luxury food? The whole world revolves around people wanting stuff they don't really need.
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Congratulations, good job. And do you think everyone is like you?
The world be a completely different place if it were so.
I'm not saying it's a good thing. But most people buy lots of stuff they don't really need. Cars included, especially with a "six figure salary".
You shouldn't be surprised.
Re: As someone living in Europe (Score:2)
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If a car maker didn't play the "hard to get" game, and put out basic EVs that may not be as quick as a Tesla, but would have easily replaceable battery packs, use LiFePO4 chemistry, which may not have as much juice, but has a lot more charging cycles, and were easily replacable, perhaps with an engine hoist, lifting the vehicle off the ground and putting the battery bank on a hydraulic platform, and had a good warranty, they would make a load of money, just because they may not be BMWs or Teslas, but you co
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My takeaway (Score:2)
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Form follows function and the SUV shape is the next step in car evolution.
I think you misspelled "minivan"
It offers the comfort of the sedan and the versatility of the station wagon while being higher and more stylish than either.
You mean CUVs? People should really stop calling them SUVs. And the only thing good about them vs. a minivan is some notion of style.
Many of the cars now being marketed as SUVs are not true SUVs at all - they are cars with SUV profiles.
Yeah, they are called "crossovers", or "CUVs", or as I like to call them, "tall cars".
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Form follows function and the SUV shape is the next step in car evolution.
I think you misspelled "minivan"
I don't think so. Most people can tell the difference between an SUV and a minivan. If you did a random survey of a large number of people, showing them pictures of vehicles and asking them to name the type of each vehicle I suspect you'd see a very high consistency in which vehicles get called minivan and which get called SUV. Some of the SUVs might get called CUV by some people, but I doubt many SUVs or CUVs would be called "minivan" by any significant number of people.
I get that you want to get some sort
Re: My takeaway (Score:2)
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No, my point is that people should get over themselves and just drive a minivan if what they think they want is a CUV. They're better vehicles, in that they drive just as well these days but they have a lot more interior space.
Actually, there were two outstanding minivans in the past as well, the Previa S/C AWD and the 2000+ Astro AWD (with the 4.3 Vortec, so long as you get the upgraded seats. The stock ones are terrible.) But now they are mostly all pretty great. Everything people like about a CUV, they h
This is very bad news. (Score:1)
Lies and statistics (Score:3)
Here's another way to slice the data:
In 2022 (to November) Tesla wasn't even in the top 10 car sales by manufacturer in Europe. Volkswagen was #1, the Toyota, then BMW.
Tesla have very few models and so all their sales are concentrated, which looks good when sales are by model.
https://sasatimes.com/new-car-... [sasatimes.com]