One Problem for Meta's Anti-China Stance? 'Made in China' Hardware (msn.com) 45
Companies like Apple have moved hardware production to places like India and Vietnam, reports the Washington Post. But Facebook "has hit walls, say three people familiar with the discussions, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal conversations."
Until recently, the people said, Meta executives viewed the company's reliance on China to make Oculus virtual reality headsets as a relatively minor concern because the company's core focus was its social media and messaging apps. All that has changed now that Meta has rebranded itself as a hardware company, the people said. Beyond last year's name change from Facebook to Meta, the company has undertaken a broad internal reorganization, launched augmented-reality smart glasses, and is building a connected device that could be worn on a person's wrist. In October, the company introduced Meta Quest Pro, the first in a new line of headsets built for collaboration.
Internal concerns about the hardware push intensified last year, when some executives worried that the anti-China strategy...would hurt its business ambitions and be viewed by the public and regulators as hypocritical, given the company's growing reliance on China for its plans....
Executives also looked, unsuccessfully, for ways to move manufacturing of Oculus to Taiwan. "Meta is building a complicated hardware product. You can't just turn on a dime and make it elsewhere," said one of the executives.... While the original smartwatch plan was abandoned, the company continues to work on a wearable device for the wrist, according to two people familiar with the company's plans. "At present, Meta's consumer electronics hardware is manufactured in China but we are constantly reviewing and exploring supply chain opportunities around the world," spokeswoman Ha Thai said....
Executives are still hoping the hardware-focused rebranding will shift the conversation away from criticism of its social media business, said two of the people. But they are well aware that relying on China for a growing suite of virtual reality headsets, smartwatches and other hardware will invite a new set of political challenges. Companies dependent on China for manufacturing have faced criticism over shipping jobs overseas as well as environmental and labor rights issues, and have had their businesses impacted by trade wars and other political escalations.
"You trade in one set of problems for another," said one of the people.
The article also notes that Meta has quietly funded the nonprofit "American Edge" that "runs online advertising and other campaigns that are critical of China and of TikTok, the Chinese-owned social media app.
"[S]ome Chinese analysts have argued that Meta was resorting to desperate measures because it feared TikTok owner ByteDance's growing dominance in short video."
Internal concerns about the hardware push intensified last year, when some executives worried that the anti-China strategy...would hurt its business ambitions and be viewed by the public and regulators as hypocritical, given the company's growing reliance on China for its plans....
Executives also looked, unsuccessfully, for ways to move manufacturing of Oculus to Taiwan. "Meta is building a complicated hardware product. You can't just turn on a dime and make it elsewhere," said one of the executives.... While the original smartwatch plan was abandoned, the company continues to work on a wearable device for the wrist, according to two people familiar with the company's plans. "At present, Meta's consumer electronics hardware is manufactured in China but we are constantly reviewing and exploring supply chain opportunities around the world," spokeswoman Ha Thai said....
Executives are still hoping the hardware-focused rebranding will shift the conversation away from criticism of its social media business, said two of the people. But they are well aware that relying on China for a growing suite of virtual reality headsets, smartwatches and other hardware will invite a new set of political challenges. Companies dependent on China for manufacturing have faced criticism over shipping jobs overseas as well as environmental and labor rights issues, and have had their businesses impacted by trade wars and other political escalations.
"You trade in one set of problems for another," said one of the people.
The article also notes that Meta has quietly funded the nonprofit "American Edge" that "runs online advertising and other campaigns that are critical of China and of TikTok, the Chinese-owned social media app.
"[S]ome Chinese analysts have argued that Meta was resorting to desperate measures because it feared TikTok owner ByteDance's growing dominance in short video."
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Here's a pearl necklace in case you need one for clutching.
Cold War 2.0 (Score:3)
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What? No, that can't be. That's where we get our cheap TVs from! If we have to build them here again, they'll maybe cost 600 instead of 300 bucks.
Hmm.... then again, they might come down in price again because a lot more people could afford them because they have jobs building TVs now...
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"they might come down in price again because a lot more people could afford them because they have jobs building TVs now..."
Increasing demand does not drive down prices. Economics is not your strength, eh?
Price and demand [Re:Cold War 2.0] (Score:2)
Increasing demand does not drive down prices. Economics is not your strength, eh?
Increasing demand may or may not drive down prices. In manufacturing, it usually does, because with increased volume you get economy of scale. Basically, more efficient use of automation can be implemented.
If you're selling a hundred units a year, a million dollar robot to do assembly is not a economic choice. If you're selling a million units a year, it may well be.
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One should think that an increase in demand makes prices go up. That is only true, though, in highly elastic markets. Those are few and far between today. Unless we're talking real estate or GPUs, our problem in production is not a shortage of raw materials that limit our capability of producing units. The limiting factor today is mostly a lack of potential consumers. Most companies could easily ramp up production if there was more demand.
Now, as you may also know, the bulk of today's cost is not on a per-u
Just sad (Score:4, Insightful)
There are literally dozens of places in the US to build facilities to build these kinds of things with plenty of low-wage, eager workers but for some odd reason, these companies don't want to build consumer electronics plants here in the US. Instead, they wind up in Asia or Mexico. We can't continue to just be a consumer nation, it's killing our economy in the long run. There are some who are re-investing in US factories but we can't keep ceding $3000 refrigerator and $1500 cell phone production off-shore.
Re:Just sad (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not those things it's the supply chain.
You can't make a VR headset without a huge number of components. Electronics, optics, assemblies. You could ship them all from China where they are made, but then you have to ship 1000 individual parts. Easier to just assemble the whole thing there.
If you want to make this stuff in the US, you need the supply chain. It's a chicken and egg problem, you need the manufacturing to create investment in the supply chain.
Re:Just sad (Score:5, Insightful)
There are literally dozens of places in the US to build facilities to build these kinds of things with plenty of low-wage, eager workers but for some odd reason, these companies don't want to build consumer electronics plants here in the US.
That's because however poorly those low-wage US workers are paid, they're still 10x more expensive than Chinese workers.
Don't you think there's a reason why companies have their shit built in China? If they could, they would bring the work back home in a New York minute - for image reasons, and also because the US' policies are in direct conflict with their dependency on their Chinese suppliers and constitute a grave business risk. Yet despite all that, it still makes more sense to have shit made abroad.
Re:Just sad (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Just sad (Score:5, Insightful)
"Are Mexico and China sending trillions of Dollars to Ukraine..."
No, nor is the US. What the US does send to Ukraine is well spent as it will hasten the demise of your paycheck, comrade.
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it's not trillions of dollars, at least not yet, it's tens of billions for now. and most of it is actually "$ worth of weapons" meaning those $ are actually sent to american companies, not really ukraine. ukraine is just where the fireworks are burned up, and it's us taxpayers paying for the show, so a subset of the elites can fight over a few billions and some future prospects. which is what it boils down if you ignore the propaganda. if the whole thing doesn't go south before and fucks up an entire contin
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Being a consumer nation is basically what being a colony in the 18th century was like. You have to dump the wealth of your country onto the country that delivers the goods and services you want. Back then, that's what Europe did with Africa. They made clothing and tools in England, shipped them to Africa and got their gold in return.
Essentially, the US is China's Africa.
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Says the guy that doesn't understand the basic concept of price and demand.
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I do understand it, it's just flawed. It assumes that the demand side somehow magically generates money, but that cannot happen. Consumers can only consume if they have money, and that only happens if they participate in the production. Because otherwise, how the hell are they supposed to have money?
That system can be propped up for a while by handing your prospective consumers loans, which not only makes them dependent on your goods but now also your money.
Still don't see the parallels to colonialism?
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Nope, they don't really exist. Because right now, it's a buyer's market for those people.
They're not eager to work those jobs - it's why those jobs have always been filled with immigrants - if you've travelled and stayed in a hotel, you'll find the housekeeping staff almost always speaks Spanish. Americans could take the jobs, but they aren't taking them, leaving the positions open.
These kinds of jobs are the crap jobs - the low skill low pay jobs that are the ultimate in du
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The world would be better off without this post.
First, you don't know the difference between a buyer's market and a seller's market. If there are no workers, it's not a buyer's market for labor.
Second, if they are "crap jobs", "dull and unfulfilling", then is the US really "great at manufacturing" then? And how racist do you have to be to say that these are "crap jobs" but good at building a "much better future" for "immigrants"? I guess housekeepers speaking Spanish really drives that point home, right
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plenty of low-wage
I don't think you understand what this means in the context of overseas manufacturing. If you paid the same "low-wage" in the USA the "workers" (slaves is the only term you should use at this point) wouldn't even be able to afford to turn their lights on at home, let alone eat, or pay rent.
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low-wage is a relative term but for arguments sake, let's say you pay an assembler $20/hr. to assemble a smart phone. They can do maybe 3 to 4 per hour. .5% to the cost of the MSRP of the low-end iPhone 14.
Incrementally, that adds less than
Now we could argue the socio-economic inequalities of what defines "low-wage" but $20/hr. is $40K/yr. of positive economic benefit per worker vs being on federal/state assistance. Even if you have to include subsystem testing, component assembly etc. Without doing a WBS l
If Meta has a problem, everyone has a problem (Score:3)
Everything is made in China.
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I agree. Everyone has a problem.
We are being colonized by China. It's the same shit that went down in the 18th and 19th century. Back then, England was the main culprit. They developed their industry and produced cheap clothing and tools that they used to flood the market of the various African colonies they had. Local competition was crushed under the flood of industrial made cheap goods and nobody bought the local goods anymore. That meant that those colonies had to give away their wealth (i.e. precious r
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If Meta really considers itself a hardware company (Score:2)
Then it's already a failure. A few niche hardware products aren't going to get them even within sniffing distance of all those piles of Facebook money.
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Probably the most hysterical part. Even the thought that Meta might want to consider itself a hardware company is a knee-slapper. Why make stuff when you can grift off your users?
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It's paying your salary, comrade.
China and Taiwan (Score:1)
What's ironic is that the whole entire political and economic landscape will shift overnight if Xi Jinping out right declares Taiwan to be its independent state and that China would drop its ambitions to acquire/reclaim/integrate any part of Taiwan and its island territories in the region. Begin formal diplomatic relations and sign an official peace and recognition treaty and allow Taiwan a seat at the UN, recognizes by all its member states. Should China ever decide to do this, it is a literal game over fo
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Indeed, China's big mistake is not allying itself with the Taiwan against their shared mortal enemy, the US. What incredible insight this is.
"It may seem counterintuitive politically and economically at first but once China realizes its ambitions to reclaim China through force is a fruitless effort and simply let those ambitions goes, that is when China will become the new order."
cooperation is not the foundation of autocracy
What is interesting is whether you are this big a fool or whether this is some kin
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First of all, China's domestic population would not stand for it after a lifetime of hearing the opposite.
Second, please study MEARSHEIMER's theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] China becoming a regional hegemon would still make it a target for the US and Taiwan would still ally with the US for fear that China would go back on its word and invade anyway.
Punish dictatorships, but use them too (Score:2)
But here we should not be cutting out nose to spite our face but be playing a *smart* game - buying their products when it helps us develop ours, which we can then use against them.
Hard to legislate for, I guess.
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( The Iraq war was just, for that reason alone. )
Yeah, it had nothing to do with their oil.
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So the part about bringing down dictatorship is just plain bullshit.
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Oh no! (Score:1)
One of Meta's 17 VR users might see Xi propaganda, the horror!