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Electric Car Sales in Norway Near 80% in 2022, Tesla Top-Selling Brand Again (reuters.com) 177

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
Almost four out of five new cars sold in Norway last year were battery-powered, with Tesla the top-selling brand for the second year in a row, registration data showed on Monday. From a report: Seeking to become the first nation to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025, oil-producing Norway has until now exempted battery-powered fully electric vehicles (BEV) from taxes imposed on rivals using internal combustion engines (ICE). The share of new electric vehicles rose to 79.3% in 2022 from 65% in 2021 and from a mere 2.9% a decade ago, the Norwegian Road Federation said. Tesla had a 12.2% share of the overall car market in Norway, making it the number one brand for a second consecutive year, ahead of Volkswagen with 11.6%.
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Electric Car Sales in Norway Near 80% in 2022, Tesla Top-Selling Brand Again More

Electric Car Sales in Norway Near 80% in 2022, Tesla Top-Selling Brand Again

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  • Subsidizing the rich (Score:2, Interesting)

    by magzteel ( 5013587 )

    From the article: "Those who bought an electric Porsche Turbo S last year would have paid at least 1.7 million Norwegian crowns, but if it had been taxed like its petrol-fuelled equivalent, the price tag would have been above 2.1 million."

    According to Google, today 1,700,000 Norwegian Krone equals 172,053.60 USD
    and 2,100,000 Norwegian Krone equals 212,536.80 USD

    So they are giving the wealthy a $40k discount on that $212k car. Nice! I'm sure they can use it for some other toy.

    • So they are giving the wealthy a $40k discount on that $212k car. Nice! I'm sure they can use it for some other toy.

      The population of Norway is about 5.5 million, and 2.8 million passenger cars are registered there. Discounting children means that on average well over 50% of all adults in Norway own a passenger car.

      Per your comment, that's a lot of wealthy! Should you move to Norway, I'll bet you would be wealty too!

    • Re:Subsidizing the rich (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kenh ( 9056 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @02:34PM (#63174414) Homepage Journal

      Lower-priced cars have similar discounts, the difference is the elimination of a tax or taxes that are a function of the car price. Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper.

      When you eliminate a 20% tax, everything that was previously taxed is now 20% cheaper, but kudos to you for cherry-picking an extreme example to make it sound like it favors the rich. (BTW, car ownership in Norway isn't as common as it is in America, for example.)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper

        Typo, should read "...the economy car is also 20% cheaper"

      • Lower-priced cars have similar discounts, the difference is the elimination of a tax or taxes that are a function of the car price. Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper.

        When you eliminate a 20% tax, everything that was previously taxed is now 20% cheaper, but kudos to you for cherry-picking an extreme example to make it sound like it favors the rich. (BTW, car ownership in Norway isn't as common as it is in America, for example.)

        I quoted the article, they are the ones that "cherry picked". Why eliminate that tax on a purchase that expensive?
        They could just as easily have said "This tax is eliminated on vehicles costing up to $50k"

        • Exactly that happened. As of yesterday, only the first 60k is exempt.

          • Exactly that happened. As of yesterday, only the first 60k is exempt.

            That's literally not the same thing. Someone who can afford a high-end vehicle doesn't need a tax break at all.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by q_e_t ( 5104099 )
              If you can encourage those who are wealthy to buy a less polluting vehicle that's good. Often these trickle down through the economy, so there's a bit of a force multiplier. Then there is the question as to whether the administration of checking income and applying taxes to only some is worth the effort in terms of administrative costs. By limiting the reduction to the first proportion of the purchase price you get close enough to achieving what you suggest with limited complexity.

              • If you can encourage those who are wealthy to buy a less polluting vehicle that's good.

                So raise taxes on high-end ICEVs, while lowering them on low-end EVs. Done and done.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by q_e_t ( 5104099 )
                  I thought (maybe I am wrong) that Norway was also going to introduce - a cut off in the tax reduction.

        • You have obviously never been to the Nordics. There are not many cars here that cost Uber 50k, as the governments tax on import. Denmark in particularâ¦

    • Well, sort of... they are exempting the EV's from the very high taxes they normally collect. Whether that's 'regressive' (as a literal subsidy for the rich would be) or just 'less progressive than ususal' is a difference in perspective.
    • A country that rewards success! Who would have thunk?

      You keep punishing success and wonder why America is going to hell in handbasket. You start voting for politicians who give tax cuts to the successful, not afraid to say, "Corporations are people, my friend". Allow corporations to have religious beliefs. And accept the Supreme Court judgement, "money is speech". Elect politicians who will starve the beast and shrink the government small enough to be drowned in a bath tub.

      Then you will see success in Am

    • A lot of people are "rich", for your standards...

  • People in Norway prefer to not pay taxes on new car purchases.

    Seeking to become the first nation to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025, oil-producing Norway has until now exempted battery-powered fully electric vehicles (BEV) from taxes imposed on rivals using internal combustion engines (ICE).

    Wow, what a completely predictable outcome.

    Cars in Norway are stupid expensive, with things like 25% VAT, greenhouse gas taxes, etc, so it's not surprising people are flocking to heavily discounted/cheaper EVs.

    https://www.autoevolution.com/... [autoevolution.com]

  • Norway is a nordic country, and parts of it get quite cold, but not anywhere close to the cold of the American midwest, or parts of Canada, at least on average and over extended periods.

    The other week when it was -30C for an extended period, I wondered if there is any real-world data about EVs, particularly the Tesla's performance in that weather. Obviously they must be kept plugged in at all times to keep the battery warm, but how is the range when you're trying to stay comfortable in the cabin with the

    • EV's are now using heat pumps to keep the batteries warm during cold periods. So yes some range is lost. However some companies are much better than others in this aspect. https://www.carscoops.com/2022... [carscoops.com]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by caseih ( 160668 )

        Yes, that's not too bad. But -7C is not particularly cold. What happens when it dips down to -30? And what happens if you can't plug in for a night even at -7C? That's why I'd love to hear real-world data from owners in places like Calgary or Edmonton. The Canadian government is trying to get gasoline car sales banned in a few years, and they often point to Sweden or Norway as examples of northern countries managing it.

    • Norway is a nordic country, and parts of it get quite cold, but not anywhere close to the cold of the American midwest, or parts of Canada, at least on average and over extended periods.

      The other week when it was -30C for an extended period, I wondered if there is any real-world data about EVs, particularly the Tesla's performance in that weather. Obviously they must be kept plugged in at all times to keep the battery warm, but how is the range when you're trying to stay comfortable in the cabin with the heater on full to keep the windows defrosted and the feet warm. I've seen several Teslas in my area in Canada, so people are driving therm in these conditions. What is the range, in the city, and out on a highway?

      Sounds like 40-50% [reddit.com]. I don't think they need to be plugged in, the battery will warm itself up, but the heat pump loses a lot of efficiency as you start getting below -15C.

    • There have been youtube videos on this, one guy [youtube.com] found a bunch of new EA chargers from a specific manufacturer errored out in the extreme cold and none of them worked.

      The same guy also did a Tesla charge test from sitting in the cold for two days unused - it took over an hour for the battery to even start charging because it took that long for the internal battery heater to get the battery conditioned(heated) for accepting a charge.

      Several from others have done tests heating the cabin if you get stuck/
      • The one thing that will need to change with charging stations is coverage. I'm amazed that the people that designed/installed charging stations never bothered to notice that gas stations almost always have some type of roof coverage. I haven't had to fast-charge in the rain yet, but I bet it won't be much fun. And colder climates will probably realize that the fast chargers will need to be located inside some type of garage so that the car/charger will be a little warmer.

        • Cold climate station fast chargers will likely have insulation and coolant loops. Putting some vacuum insulation panels around a small amount of electronics is cheaper than building an entire garage around it.

          Cold climate EVs might also start using vacuum insulation, would reduce the power requirements to maintain battery temperatures.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      According to this anecdotal account [yahoo.com], this pair had to stop every hour of driving to charge for an hour and a half to two hours.

      • They said it got progressively worse, that sounds like there was a fault. You can have faults in gassers, too.

        I mean, fuck Musk and fuck Tesla, but the story still sounds more like an unexpected problem occurred than the expected one.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by taustin ( 171655 )

          They said it got progressively worse, that sounds like there was a fault.

          They were driving from Florida to Kansas. What it got was progressively colder. One expects an EV's batteries to become less efficient at charging and discharging as the temperature goes down.

          However, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," so a large grain of salt is in order.

          • I don't see how they'd have to recharge every hour of driving unless they were driving constantly at v-max, no matter the temperature.

            That said yeah it can get pretty bad in winter, the Model 3 for example seems to go down to around 300km highway range which would mean charging every two hours: https://docs.google.com/spread... [google.com]

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by taustin ( 171655 )

              Does that include running the heater full blast all the time? They were in sub-zero temperatures for a good deal of the trip.

              (And again, it's one tale from people of unknown reliability, and it was a rental car which may or may not have been well maintained.)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ruddk ( 5153113 )

        That is definitely wrong. Either something with the car or the driver.
        Tesla will always preheat/cool the battery before charging, they should not spend more than 30 minutes at a charger. I have on had the car parked for multiple days at -15 at Christmas. It was around 50% SoC. so I had 0 regen because the battery was frozen and would not accept any charge. It preheated the battery and I got 247kW peak at the first supercharger. The range were down about 30%

  • Irony (Score:5, Insightful)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @03:37PM (#63174538)

    Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers (reference: https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com] ) is buying electric cars? Think about how brilliant they are, and how the rest of the world is so fucking stupid. Also the fact that they are wisely investing the oil money in UBI and sustainable production/technology via an Oil Fund (ref: https://www.weforum.org/agenda... [weforum.org] ) shows they are double smart, unlike the Saudis who have never seen money until 50 years ago building ego projects and literal lines to nowhere (ref: https://gizmodo.com/saudi-arab... [gizmodo.com] ).

    • US vs EU wars!

    • Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers (reference: https://www.reuters.com/busine [reuters.com]... ) is buying electric cars? Think about how brilliant they are, and how the rest of the world is so fucking stupid.

      Think about how brilliant it is to claim to give a fuck about the environment while selling fossil fuels. Er, wait, unscrupulous. The word is unscrupulous.

    • Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers.

      But also a big renewable generator. electricity maps [electricitymaps.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by reanjr ( 588767 )

      Seems counter-productive and a bit disingenuous to tell your citizens they need to fork over the premium for EVs while the nation continues to sell oil to a world that is going to burn it and release the carbon into the atmosphere anyway. If they believe oil is a problem, they have complete control over a sizable spigot.

      • If Norway didn't sell the oil. They would be a poorer nation unable to afford EVS. Their population would be on gas cars. This is the only way to bring about q sustainable future.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by q_e_t ( 5104099 )
      There's no irony. Norway makes a lot of money from exporting oil, earning foreign currency, and is thus protecting itself as it also is aware that oil is a limited resource.

  • Car park nightmare (Score:3)

    by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Monday January 02, 2023 @05:14PM (#63174700)

    Good luck trying to find your car in a multi-storey car park when all you can see around is white Teslas for 100m in every direction.

  • How is Tesla a top selling EV brand when their cars have so many issues? I don't get it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ichthus ( 72442 )
      Because they don't have "so many issues".

    • How is Tesla a top selling EV brand when their cars have so many issues?

      Because they don't! A lot of the Tesla hate is flat out wrong, misinformed, or intentionally misleading . For example Fly Swatter said

      "...a bunch of new EA chargers from a specific manufacturer errored out in the extreme cold and none of them worked."

      This is a great example of misleading. Tesla isn't dependent upon Electrify America (EA). Tesla has the largest most reliable Supercharger network. Non-Tesla's do indeed have a lot of tro

      • I didn't mislead anyone, the EA chargers were an example of the EV infrastructure in general. Because all you can focus on is apparently Tesla, but there is no reason to call it misleading.

        The cold Tesla was more specific to the OP's question about known Tesla tests. I said it took an hour to start charging the battery not start the car.. Who's twisting words now?

        You don't even reference the test that showed Tesla lost the least percentage of range of all other EVs in cold weather. I have no love for

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    Most cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where about 120,000 metric tons are mined annually, as per Statista [statista.com], representing about 72% of the world’s cobalt supply.

    As society’s reliance on rechargeable technology has increased, so has cobalt mining — and unfortunately, the cobalt mining industry is horrendous.

    The 'industrial Cobalt mines' are actually artisanal mines. Thousands of humans with no safety equipment. There is no such thing

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