Electric Car Sales in Norway Near 80% in 2022, Tesla Top-Selling Brand Again (reuters.com) 177
Almost four out of five new cars sold in Norway last year were battery-powered, with Tesla the top-selling brand for the second year in a row, registration data showed on Monday. From a report: Seeking to become the first nation to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025, oil-producing Norway has until now exempted battery-powered fully electric vehicles (BEV) from taxes imposed on rivals using internal combustion engines (ICE). The share of new electric vehicles rose to 79.3% in 2022 from 65% in 2021 and from a mere 2.9% a decade ago, the Norwegian Road Federation said. Tesla had a 12.2% share of the overall car market in Norway, making it the number one brand for a second consecutive year, ahead of Volkswagen with 11.6%.
Subsidizing the rich (Score:2, Interesting)
From the article: "Those who bought an electric Porsche Turbo S last year would have paid at least 1.7 million Norwegian crowns, but if it had been taxed like its petrol-fuelled equivalent, the price tag would have been above 2.1 million."
According to Google, today 1,700,000 Norwegian Krone equals 172,053.60 USD
and 2,100,000 Norwegian Krone equals 212,536.80 USD
So they are giving the wealthy a $40k discount on that $212k car. Nice! I'm sure they can use it for some other toy.
Envious of the rich (Score:3)
So they are giving the wealthy a $40k discount on that $212k car. Nice! I'm sure they can use it for some other toy.
The population of Norway is about 5.5 million, and 2.8 million passenger cars are registered there. Discounting children means that on average well over 50% of all adults in Norway own a passenger car.
Per your comment, that's a lot of wealthy! Should you move to Norway, I'll bet you would be wealty too!
Re: (Score:3)
I think you missed the point.
Re:Subsidizing the rich (Score:5, Insightful)
Lower-priced cars have similar discounts, the difference is the elimination of a tax or taxes that are a function of the car price. Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper.
When you eliminate a 20% tax, everything that was previously taxed is now 20% cheaper, but kudos to you for cherry-picking an extreme example to make it sound like it favors the rich. (BTW, car ownership in Norway isn't as common as it is in America, for example.)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper
Typo, should read "...the economy car is also 20% cheaper"
Re: (Score:3)
Lower-priced cars have similar discounts, the difference is the elimination of a tax or taxes that are a function of the car price. Yes, $200K cars are 20% cheaper, but the economy car is also 29% cheaper.
When you eliminate a 20% tax, everything that was previously taxed is now 20% cheaper, but kudos to you for cherry-picking an extreme example to make it sound like it favors the rich. (BTW, car ownership in Norway isn't as common as it is in America, for example.)
I quoted the article, they are the ones that "cherry picked". Why eliminate that tax on a purchase that expensive?
They could just as easily have said "This tax is eliminated on vehicles costing up to $50k"
Re: Subsidizing the rich (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly that happened. As of yesterday, only the first 60k is exempt.
That's literally not the same thing. Someone who can afford a high-end vehicle doesn't need a tax break at all.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you can encourage those who are wealthy to buy a less polluting vehicle that's good.
So raise taxes on high-end ICEVs, while lowering them on low-end EVs. Done and done.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Subsidizing the rich (Score:2)
You have obviously never been to the Nordics. There are not many cars here that cost Uber 50k, as the governments tax on import. Denmark in particularâ¦
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
You keep punishing success and wonder why America is going to hell in handbasket. You start voting for politicians who give tax cuts to the successful, not afraid to say, "Corporations are people, my friend". Allow corporations to have religious beliefs. And accept the Supreme Court judgement, "money is speech". Elect politicians who will starve the beast and shrink the government small enough to be drowned in a bath tub.
Then you will see success in Am
Re: Subsidizing the rich (Score:2)
In other words... (Score:2)
People in Norway prefer to not pay taxes on new car purchases.
Seeking to become the first nation to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025, oil-producing Norway has until now exempted battery-powered fully electric vehicles (BEV) from taxes imposed on rivals using internal combustion engines (ICE).
Wow, what a completely predictable outcome.
Cars in Norway are stupid expensive, with things like 25% VAT, greenhouse gas taxes, etc, so it's not surprising people are flocking to heavily discounted/cheaper EVs.
https://www.autoevolution.com/... [autoevolution.com]
Re: In other words... (Score:2)
Seeking real-world actual cold weather data on EVs (Score:2)
Norway is a nordic country, and parts of it get quite cold, but not anywhere close to the cold of the American midwest, or parts of Canada, at least on average and over extended periods.
The other week when it was -30C for an extended period, I wondered if there is any real-world data about EVs, particularly the Tesla's performance in that weather. Obviously they must be kept plugged in at all times to keep the battery warm, but how is the range when you're trying to stay comfortable in the cabin with the
Re: (Score:2)
EV's are now using heat pumps to keep the batteries warm during cold periods. So yes some range is lost. However some companies are much better than others in this aspect. https://www.carscoops.com/2022... [carscoops.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, that's not too bad. But -7C is not particularly cold. What happens when it dips down to -30? And what happens if you can't plug in for a night even at -7C? That's why I'd love to hear real-world data from owners in places like Calgary or Edmonton. The Canadian government is trying to get gasoline car sales banned in a few years, and they often point to Sweden or Norway as examples of northern countries managing it.
Re: Seeking real-world actual cold weather data on (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Starting" a Tesla in -34C Cold Canadian Winter https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Same guy: Leaving a Tesla Unplugged in Winter Overnight: Battery Cold Test in Canada https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
These weren't really hard to find so I'll leave you with the search engine of your choice to find your own references.
I'd just add that in the north of Sweden you use engine heaters for ICE vehicles, so domestic parking spaces come with electric outlets. Pic just the first such parking space I could find in center Kiruna https://goo.gl/maps/wEnNLACVjC... [goo.gl] There's also the snow parking curbsi
Re: (Score:2)
Norway is a nordic country, and parts of it get quite cold, but not anywhere close to the cold of the American midwest, or parts of Canada, at least on average and over extended periods.
The other week when it was -30C for an extended period, I wondered if there is any real-world data about EVs, particularly the Tesla's performance in that weather. Obviously they must be kept plugged in at all times to keep the battery warm, but how is the range when you're trying to stay comfortable in the cabin with the heater on full to keep the windows defrosted and the feet warm. I've seen several Teslas in my area in Canada, so people are driving therm in these conditions. What is the range, in the city, and out on a highway?
Sounds like 40-50% [reddit.com]. I don't think they need to be plugged in, the battery will warm itself up, but the heat pump loses a lot of efficiency as you start getting below -15C.
Re: (Score:2)
The same guy also did a Tesla charge test from sitting in the cold for two days unused - it took over an hour for the battery to even start charging because it took that long for the internal battery heater to get the battery conditioned(heated) for accepting a charge.
Several from others have done tests heating the cabin if you get stuck/
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Seeking real-world actual cold weather data on (Score:2)
Cold climate station fast chargers will likely have insulation and coolant loops. Putting some vacuum insulation panels around a small amount of electronics is cheaper than building an entire garage around it.
Cold climate EVs might also start using vacuum insulation, would reduce the power requirements to maintain battery temperatures.
Re: (Score:3)
According to this anecdotal account [yahoo.com], this pair had to stop every hour of driving to charge for an hour and a half to two hours.
Re: (Score:2)
They said it got progressively worse, that sounds like there was a fault. You can have faults in gassers, too.
I mean, fuck Musk and fuck Tesla, but the story still sounds more like an unexpected problem occurred than the expected one.
Re: (Score:2)
They said it got progressively worse, that sounds like there was a fault.
They were driving from Florida to Kansas. What it got was progressively colder. One expects an EV's batteries to become less efficient at charging and discharging as the temperature goes down.
However, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," so a large grain of salt is in order.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see how they'd have to recharge every hour of driving unless they were driving constantly at v-max, no matter the temperature.
That said yeah it can get pretty bad in winter, the Model 3 for example seems to go down to around 300km highway range which would mean charging every two hours: https://docs.google.com/spread... [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Does that include running the heater full blast all the time? They were in sub-zero temperatures for a good deal of the trip.
(And again, it's one tale from people of unknown reliability, and it was a rental car which may or may not have been well maintained.)
Re: (Score:2)
I dunno, it's from one of the tests by Teslabjorn. He seems to have the heat at 20-22 degrees C usually. I don't think that's the right video but you can find it in his channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
That is definitely wrong. Either something with the car or the driver.
Tesla will always preheat/cool the battery before charging, they should not spend more than 30 minutes at a charger. I have on had the car parked for multiple days at -15 at Christmas. It was around 50% SoC. so I had 0 regen because the battery was frozen and would not accept any charge. It preheated the battery and I got 247kW peak at the first supercharger. The range were down about 30%
Irony (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers (reference: https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com] ) is buying electric cars? Think about how brilliant they are, and how the rest of the world is so fucking stupid. Also the fact that they are wisely investing the oil money in UBI and sustainable production/technology via an Oil Fund (ref: https://www.weforum.org/agenda... [weforum.org] ) shows they are double smart, unlike the Saudis who have never seen money until 50 years ago building ego projects and literal lines to nowhere (ref: https://gizmodo.com/saudi-arab... [gizmodo.com] ).
Re: Irony (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers (reference: https://www.reuters.com/busine [reuters.com]... ) is buying electric cars? Think about how brilliant they are, and how the rest of the world is so fucking stupid.
Think about how brilliant it is to claim to give a fuck about the environment while selling fossil fuels. Er, wait, unscrupulous. The word is unscrupulous.
Re: (Score:3)
The oil will get sold anyway,
Lots of oil on the planet is never going to be sold.
better it fattens Norway's pocket than some warlords.
That's not just a false dichotomy, it's an exceptionally stupid one.
Re: (Score:2)
Lots of oil on the planet is never going to be sold.
I would not bet on that, but in any case as long as it is I'd rather support democracies than dictators. Pretty sure Europe is grateful for every joule Norway can send them.
Re: (Score:2)
Anyone see the irony in the fact that NORWAY, one of the world's top oil producers.
But also a big renewable generator. electricity maps [electricitymaps.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Seems counter-productive and a bit disingenuous to tell your citizens they need to fork over the premium for EVs while the nation continues to sell oil to a world that is going to burn it and release the carbon into the atmosphere anyway. If they believe oil is a problem, they have complete control over a sizable spigot.
Re: Irony (Score:2)
If Norway didn't sell the oil. They would be a poorer nation unable to afford EVS. Their population would be on gas cars. This is the only way to bring about q sustainable future.
Re: (Score:2)
Car park nightmare (Score:3)
Good luck trying to find your car in a multi-storey car park when all you can see around is white Teslas for 100m in every direction.
Why Tesla? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How is Tesla a top selling EV brand when their cars have so many issues?
Because they don't! A lot of the Tesla hate is flat out wrong, misinformed, or intentionally misleading . For example Fly Swatter said
"...a bunch of new EA chargers from a specific manufacturer errored out in the extreme cold and none of them worked."
This is a great example of misleading. Tesla isn't dependent upon Electrify America (EA). Tesla has the largest most reliable Supercharger network. Non-Tesla's do indeed have a lot of tro
Re: (Score:2)
The cold Tesla was more specific to the OP's question about known Tesla tests. I said it took an hour to start charging the battery not start the car.. Who's twisting words now?
You don't even reference the test that showed Tesla lost the least percentage of range of all other EVs in cold weather. I have no love for
Green energy is robbing Peter to pay Paul (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Most cobalt is mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where about 120,000 metric tons are mined annually, as per Statista [statista.com], representing about 72% of the world’s cobalt supply.
As society’s reliance on rechargeable technology has increased, so has cobalt mining — and unfortunately, the cobalt mining industry is horrendous.
The 'industrial Cobalt mines' are actually artisanal mines. Thousands of humans with no safety equipment. There is no such thing
Re:Here's my prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Norway isn't America.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Here's my prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Norway also has excellent quality of life rankings.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course. It's a petrostate with government monopoly on oil and gas extraction. They're funding a massive social welfare network using the windfall and they're very insulated from outside due to the harsh climate and geography pushing away many of the MENA immigrants, instead pulling the actual Swedes, Finns and Danes to work there, as salaries in Norway are significantly higher than in other Nordics.
It also helps that it remains outside EU while being in ETA, so many of the worst problems that come with b
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most petrostates do adopt that specific mechanism of wealth distribution. The difference primarily modulated by cultural specifics, i.e. in Norway the people in charge of distribution system are democratically elected, and system is staffed by Nordic style bureaucrats.
Whereas in Saudi Arabia, the leadership is hereditary and primary bureaucracy is that of a typical islamic state. In that the social contract is that you as a citizen submit to the God, Prophet and King, stay completely out of politics and in
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
First of all, Brazil doesn't have the ratio between oil economy and GDP to be a petrostate. It's a mixed economy. Ag sector for example is huge.
Second, it's not so much political ideology as just general levels of corruption and mismanagement. Same problem you can observe in many other Central and South American states with significant oil sectors. Mexico comes to mind as an another example of "if only you let the markets actually do what they do best instead of trying to make a state monopoly". Because those state monopolies rapidly become nests of extreme corruption, while not having neither the quality of oil nor the volume of extraction that such an extremely corrupt state company can handle without failing.
Aramco can do what it does because of just how easy it is to extract and ship Saudi oil, and just how high of a quality Saudi oil is. This is a major reason why when Venezuelans tried to play by the same rule book, they went bust. Their oil quality is horrible (limiting their option who they can ship it to) and extraction is much more difficult (meaning actual significant technical expertise needed to even just continue extraction, not just to drill new wells).
Re: (Score:2)
> Because those state monopolies rapidly become nests of extreme corruption
What do you mean by those?
I ask because state monopolies don't imply nests of corruption and even less extreme corruption.
Re: (Score:2)
Those in hydrocarbons sector of the economy. Extreme global need drives extreme global reach and extreme amount of money involved. This drives extreme corrupting pressure that requires a very specific kind of a culture to build a state monopoly to resist effectively.
Re: (Score:2)
All other bullshit aside...
You do realise that the highest democratically elected office in the country is currently held by a guy born in Tehran [wikipedia.org], right? We have plenty of Pakistani and Vietnamese immigrants, including high-ranking figures of the liberal [wikipedia.org] and green [wikipedia.org] parties.
FFS even the local alt-right party had an Iranian "token muslim" [wikipedia.org] in charge of immigration affairs. Can you imagine a Mexican-born Republican in char
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Happy to oblige. You are looking only at the exports, but if you had looked at the makeup of the GDP [statista.com] you would have seen that more than half of the GDP is in the service sector, and only one third in industry (of which oil & gas is a large part). See also CIA's take on Norway's economical makeup [cia.gov].
Re: (Score:2)
They've also got a tiny population that's subsidized by a very generous petro and other natural resources extraction industries. And they STILL have very high taxes.
So great, if that's the lifestyle for you I'm sure you can go through their lengthy process to become a citizen. It's not even one of the harder countries to immigrate to.
Best,
Re: (Score:2)
And they STILL have very high taxes.
So great, if that's the lifestyle for you I'm sure you can go through their lengthy process to become a citizen.
I'll never understand the American attitude of, "Taxes? No thanks, I'd rather keep my money, hide it under the mattress, and cross the border to Mexico when I need prescriptions filled."
Re: (Score:2)
I'll never understand the American attitude of, "Taxes? No thanks, I'd rather keep my money, hide it under the mattress, and cross the border to Mexico when I need prescriptions filled."
Because "both" parties are literally fascist, they obey their corporate donors. If we give this government more money, it will not result in better health care, or more services in general. They will just give it to military contractors. Every fucking budget hands more to the military than it has asked for, so this is literally what is happening.
I'm in favor of national health, and a number of other programs for that matter (including UBI, which ironically means you could shut a lot of those programs down!)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Wealth Fund - and btw Road Charging is Coming (Score:3)
They have a sovereign wealth fund that was created with mostly (almost entirely) of royalties from the oil industry. They are the largest oil and natural gas supplier in Europe if you don't count Russia. The fund is worth at least US$1.3 Trillion (yes, trillion). They will likely have to dip into that if they want to keep the roads in shape without the money that gas taxes provide. Eventually they will be the world leader in Road Charging in order to finance road work; that is, a fee for every mile or kilom
Re: (Score:2)
some of the schemes involved tracking every vehicle by GPS in real time, uploaded to servers in spurts
This would be the dumbest way possible to implement a per-mile tax. Just have your odometer recorded once a year. Yes, there will be some people that will try to skirt the system by fiddling with the odometer, but just as many would try to circumvent the GPS system anyways.
Re: (Score:2)
Your method sounds like something a current EV user would suggest in order to not pay their fair share. By your method, you charge people who live in rural areas with little traffic and thus lower road maintenance requirements, the same price as people who drive on high use roadways. A properly implemented plan makes sure that the roads that are most used and consequently require the most maintenance are the ones that generate the most revenue to pay for their upkeep. At the same time it acts like a congest
Re: (Score:2)
That is bound to fail. If that new 16 lane highway is the most expensive part of a trip, people will try to find a cheaper route. The most expensive (and probably efficient) infrastructure will be underused because of these measures.
Better to do a flat fee road tax for all cars and count the numer of cars per road segment if you want stats. And if you really want to have people pay by usage, use the odometer.
Re: Wealth Fund - and btw Road Charging is Coming (Score:2)
Roads with the most use will naturally generate the most money - more cars driving on them means more odometers ticking up, and more cash rolling in. Each mile driven (assuming equal cars) does roughly equal damage to the road and the environment, and this should be charged the same.
If you *really* want to fenagle different rates for different people, then it should be the product of distance driven and vehicle mass that determines cost. Plus maybe surcharge for driving on rarely used roads since the road
Re: (Score:2)
Your method sounds like something a current EV user would suggest in order to not pay their fair share.
This has nothing to do with EV vs. ICE. Every car that travels X miles would pay Y dollars. It's as fair as could be.
By your method, you charge people who live in rural areas with little traffic and thus lower road maintenance requirements, the same price as people who drive on high use roadways.
Yes? I'm not sure what your point is.
A properly implemented plan makes sure that the roads that are most used and consequently require the most maintenance are the ones that generate the most revenue to pay for their upkeep.
A high traveled road would need more money, but that's OK because it has more users, so it works out. Again, I'm not seeing what your complaint is with an odometer reading tax system.
Re: Wealth Fund - and btw Road Charging is Coming (Score:2)
Re: Wealth Fund - and btw Road Charging is Coming (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's problematic for Norway or anywhere in Europe I'd imagine as it's very easy to drive across the border and millions do that daily.
I think the average is around 10,000km/year here, and if you go to a popular seaside vacation spot in the summer, that's 2,000km just there. A quick calculation seems like that would be about $100 if you paid as much per km as in fuel taxes with typical consumption and that feels like enough to get mad about.
Re: (Score:2)
Regardless of the implementation, road charging is coming.
By road charging, I assume you're talking about charging per distance or segment traveled, i.e., tolls. That has already happened in many places and is increasing in popularity (i.e., more popular with governments and not necessarily with drivers).
Currently, funds for roads come from a mixture of income tax, car registration fees, gasoline sales taxes, and tolls. It's likely that those same funding sources will continue, but the relative distributions will continue to change. It has always been the case
Re: (Score:2)
About 20% of the price of a litre of gas/petrol in Canada is tax. That is a significant amount, and a huge source of tax income for governments. That is what has to be made up when it is no longer paid.
Re: Wealth Fund - and btw Road Charging is Coming (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Norway is building offshore wind to replace oil revenue.
Road usage charging will probably be done on annual mileage. In Europe cars have to be inspected every year anyway, and the mileage is noted then.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you sniffing glue again?
Re: (Score:2)
Roads are not just for car owners, and the idea that financing them is an unfair burden on those who don't drive cars is ridiculous.
Roads carry freight, roads carry buses, roads carry emergency services. Heavier vehicles account for significantly more wear and tear on the roads than cars do.
Just because you don't drive a car doesn't mean you don't benefit from the roads.
Re: (Score:2)
You pay for freight, buses directly they will put the cost of those service on to the consumer through higher prices. Emergency services do need road but they are generally funded through taxes directly.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, so you're paying for them either way.
If anything, you would be paying *more* for the roads if part of the cost was not being paid by private vehicle owners.
Re:Here's my prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
And when diesel was cheaper to incite people to buy diesel car because - supposedly back then - they were cleaner?
The way I understand it, that's not the reason why diesel is cheaper. In fact they didn't intend for people to buy diesel cars.
The idea is: they wanted to tax personal cars but they didn't want to harm the transport industry for its role in trade. Back then, it was easy: diesel was the fuel for trucks and transport professionals, gas was for personal and sporty cars, just tax gas more. As a result, car manufacturers started making personal diesel cars, and people bought them because it was cheaper in the long run. It peaked in the early 2000s as diesel cars not only got the cheaper fuel, but also managed to get decently fast and barely more expensive on purchase, thanks to improvement in electronics.
Re: (Score:2)
The way I understand it, that's not the reason why diesel is cheaper.
Diesel isn't cheaper any more, buy about a buck and a half a gallon. And hasn't been cheaper for a long time.
https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/... [eia.gov]
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Electricity can be generated from multiple sources, including oil.
Between Europe putting the cap on ICEs on 2035, a number of car companies targeting 2030 for their ICE cut off, normalisation of electrical vehicles as a product and improving technology, I donâ(TM)t really see the pessimistic snap back you portray.
Add to this the trend of rethinking our cities and transportation, partly to make them more habitable and environmental targets, the world will be somewhat different in five to ten years
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Add to this the trend of rethinking our cities and transportation, partly to make them more habitable and environmental targets, the world will be somewhat different in five to ten years.
I really don't see the world being "somewhat different in five to ten years" - ICE cars have about 20 years of service before being crushed/recycled, so one could argue it takes 20 years to turn over the world's car inventory.
What will likely hold back the migration to all EV is the charging infrastructure, for various reasons like insufficient grid capacity, infrastructure, and actual access to chargers. All are solvable, but will take much longer to handle than we expect.
Where will additional generation c
Re:Here's my prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
"Remember when lead-free gasoline was offered cheaper than regular, to incite {sic} people to buy vehicles with engines that could cope with it? ..."
Remember when we spent around 70 years poisoning the air and our children with lead from leaded gasoline. Getting the lead out required government incentive and long battles with people so set in their ways they favored continuing to breath poison and force it upon everyone else as they actively tried to stop improvement of health?
Hmmm ... I can't put my finger on it, but this seems familiar.
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Leaded gas is still used in many small planes.
Yes, and the lead levels near airports they fly out of are measurably offensive.
It's starting to be replaced, slowly.
I used to live right next to the muni airport in Kelseyville and I could sometimes hear the planes missing (!) which means they were spewing unburned leaded fuel right over my house. If you're poor, fuck you, if you have money, you can do what you want. Merica!
Re: Here's my prediction (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not too many years from now, we'll all have tracking devices in our cars (by law) that report daily (or in real time) how many miles we've driven (and, coincidentally, where, of course) so that we can pay our per-mile vehicle taxes (of which, not a penny will go to improving the roads).
That alone is a good reason to keep driving my ICE car until it is no longer driveable.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree. Our only hope is that Californians do not like politicians that screw with our cars. The current plans to eliminate internal combustion engines by 2035 (at least for new cars) when 40%+ of California live in rentals (which doesn't include the ones who live in their cards, BTW) and have no way or place to install a charger, with rolling blackouts coming back, while simultaneously refusing to allow any new power generating plants to be built is a recipe for change.
Just ask Gray Davis what happens whe
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not that I recall. And I voted in that recall. The news media will lie about it, because they're not capable of not doing so. But the issue out on the streets, and in the polling booth, was tripling DMV fees.
Re: (Score:2)
we'll all have tracking devices in our cars (by law) that report daily (or in real time) how many miles we've driven (and, coincidentally, where, of course) so that we can pay our per-mile vehicle taxes
Or.... odometer.
Re: (Score:2)
Oddly, no one involved in this scheme is talking about that. And no one will, unless forced to. At which point they will natter on about how odometers can be tampered with.
It's almost like it's not about tracking how many miles you drive, but rather, just tracking you.
Welcome to the People's Republic of California. If you're not obscenely wealthy, or an indentured servant of someone who is, you don't belong here.