Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Technology

Iranian Attack Drone Found To Contain Parts From More Than a Dozen US Firms (cnn.com) 91

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Parts made by more than a dozen US and Western companies were found inside a single Iranian drone downed in Ukraine last fall, according to a Ukrainian intelligence assessment obtained exclusively by CNN. From the report: The assessment, which was shared with US government officials late last year, illustrates the extent of the problem facing the Biden administration, which has vowed to shut down Iran's production of drones that Russia is launching by the hundreds into Ukraine. CNN reported last month that the White House has created an administration-wide task force to investigate how US and Western-made technology -- ranging from smaller equipment like semiconductors and GPS modules to larger parts like engines -- has ended up in Iranian drones.

Of the 52 components Ukrainians removed from the Iranian Shahed-136 drone, 40 appear to have been manufactured by 13 different American companies, according to the assessment. The remaining 12 components were manufactured by companies in Canada, Switzerland, Japan, Taiwan, and China, according to the assessment. The options for combating the issue are limited. The US has for years imposed tough export control restrictions and sanctions to prevent Iran from obtaining high-end materials. Now US officials are looking at enhanced enforcement of those sanctions, encouraging companies to better monitor their own supply chains and, perhaps most importantly, trying to identify the third-party distributors taking these products and re-selling them to bad actors.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Iranian Attack Drone Found To Contain Parts From More Than a Dozen US Firms More

Iranian Attack Drone Found To Contain Parts From More Than a Dozen US Firms

Comments Filter:

  • Administration-wide task force (Score:3)

    by dmay34 ( 6770232 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:04PM (#63182838)

    The National Parks Service is ON IT, Mr. President!

  • Can't stop the older stuff from getting out. (Score:5, Informative)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:10PM (#63182858) Homepage Journal
    People were freaking out about FPGAs, microcontrollers, etc. that were in some of these drones. Fact is most (all?) of it was older & EOL things that you can find on Ali Express and other sites for peanuts.

    There's no way to stop the recyclers from selling the parts off.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by zlives ( 2009072 )

      also how many of these parts were made in said countries, i mean if you wanna blame supply chain...

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        also how many of these parts were made in said countries, i mean if you wanna blame supply chain...

        The article naturally has next to no specific detail.
        But of the four US based chip fab companies listed, three have US based production capabilities.

        The only example component they show in the article is a single TI chip.
        The markings are hard to make out, but "_28335_GFA" out of their DSP Microcontroller series would have to be the "TMS320F28335PGFA"
        A 32 bit 150mhz generic processor initially sold in 2003

        AliExpress in china sells them for $30 a pop, and doesn't care about US restrictions.
        Does anyone here ev

  • Nothing New Here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:44PM (#63182956)

    I recall stories back in the '70s about Russian made rockets captured by the Israelis turned out to have Texas Instruments ICs back then.

    We had a story back in March about Russian observation drone captured in Ukraine built with cameras from Canon.

    Big whoop.

    All the parts you need to build just about anything is purchasable online anywhere in the world as long as you have a credit card and a shippable address. You won't get controlled-status parts that easily, but you don't need those to build something effective.

    • American component, Russian component, everything built in China anyway.

    • All the parts you need to build just about anything is purchasable online anywhere in the world as long as you have a credit card and a shippable address. You won't get controlled-status parts that easily, but you don't need those to build something effective

      fast forward 50 years

      Remember when components were still semi serviceable and discreet systems instead of being a completely potted and sealed tamper proof geofenced cloud reliant brick? Man, those were the days.

    • My in laws were some of the first scientists to leave the soviet union under glasnost. They worked on soviet ICBMs and some of them went to work for the Americans in the late 80s (the Americans hired everyone). One of them said many of the components would have been interchangeable. Same solutions to the same tasks often down to the same size and nearly the same mountings.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Soviet chips used 2.5mm pitch pins. US ones used 2.54mm (0.1.inches). The smaller ones could be forced into the wrong pitch sockets.

    • It means there are holes in the sanctions. Someone is dealing with Iran when they shouldn't be.

      This story is a warning to those people, and the next step is to start arresting them.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      I recall stories back in the '70s about Russian made rockets captured by the Israelis turned out to have Texas Instruments ICs back then.

      We had a story back in March about Russian observation drone captured in Ukraine built with cameras from Canon.

      Big whoop.

      All the parts you need to build just about anything is purchasable online anywhere in the world as long as you have a credit card and a shippable address. You won't get controlled-status parts that easily, but you don't need those to build something effective.

      That's the problem with the free market, ultimately you've little control over where what you release onto it ends up.

      The only control is not releasing it onto the open market. I've no doubt that Iran got these chips from resellers in 3rd party countries who likely bought them used (or even just got them out of dumps). Sure we can make it harder for them to get components which forces them to deal with smugglers and other unsavoury types but we can never truly stop it which is how they manage to keep the

  • I told ya so (20 years ago) (Score:4, Informative)

    by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:47PM (#63182968)

    Back in 2002 I warned the world that it was already possible to build very capable DIY cruise missiles using "off the shelf" parts that could be sourced online from a variety of places, including eBay.

    I got in a heap of trouble for issuing that warning but it seems I was not wrong, just 20 years early.

    TVNZ documentary (part1) the DIY Cruise Missile [youtube.com]
    TVNZ documentary (part2) the DIY Cruise Missile [youtube.com]

    It seems that because the US government didn't like (or want to hear) the message, they opted to shoot the messenger. And people wonder why I have little respect for these bloated, incompetent bureaucracies.

    • What kind of trouble did you get in exactly? Your videos are still up on youtube.
    • A DIY cruise missile capable of a range of thousands of miles and withstanding the harsh conditions of launch?. Back in 2002. No I do not believe it. And you think it is true because a drone from this year has lots of commodity parts. Considering that consumer drones have commodity parts, that is not surprising. I do not see a lot of consumer cruise missiles for sale. Should I check Ali Express?

    • Re:I told ya so (20 years ago) (Score:4, Informative)

      by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:09PM (#63183062)
      Not missiles, ever heard of COCOM GPS limits? GPS will not report information if it's going too fast or flying too high. Thats why Iran is making planes.

      • Re:I told ya so (20 years ago) (Score:4, Informative)

        by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:44PM (#63183150)

        Cruise missiles fly at subsonic speeds and at low alititude so GPS works just fine. That's how the Iranian drones are flying right now. The restrictions on GPS are designed to stop the signal being used in ballistic missiles (which are totally different in terms of altitudes and speeds).

        • As an amateur rocketeer, I can tell you that the off-the-shelf gps modules I'm offered are inadequate for targeting. I get one position report per second: good only for recovery.

          • What if you put in several and access them sequentially?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by jddj ( 1085169 )

              "A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two is never sure."

              I've seen that attributed to Lincoln, but it doesn't matter who: the uncertainty built into consumer GPS will probably make the position look like the petals of a flower.

              Besides, if I want, say, 50 samples per second, 50 GPS units is kind of impractical. Rockets move quickly.

            • Better to combine with inertial navigation.

          • Remember, Iran is building suicide drones and they're being more used as terror weapons than war weapons.

            1 report a second for a hypersonic missile may be utterly insufficient, but it might be plenty to get a 100kph drone that is more like a cessna than a rocket onto target, with a CEP of under 20 meters.

          • I get one position report per second

            This is more than adequate for targeting. GPS should be used for a check and correction, it is not your primary measurement used for control.

            It is inadequate to intercept a a fast moving target, but very much sufficient for targeting slow moving / fixed targes which are the targets for most cruise missiles.

          • The parts found on the drone may look like American, but they could be counterfeit. There's all sorts of counterfeit GPS modules, Atmega arduino clones, ch134a programmers, even reproduction Nintendo Gameboys (with original components). Just about anything legit has some clone on aliexpress.

            With all the stuff we left behind in Afghanistan, this should be expected, not surprising.

      • On the usual commercial gps units sure.

        It's not super hard to build a gps decoder from scratch, especially as the RF tuners are available. Certainly within the reach of a nation state, probably also an SME with some especially nerdy engineers. And I mean that in the good way as a fellow nerd.

        Don't forget GPS is 1979 tech. There are more satellites now and with better clocks which improves accuracy, but the decoding tech is over 40 years old, and more recent advancements are on the open literature.

      • Unless you are looking for pinpoint accuracy, I doubt if it matters.

        Especially if your target is "anywhere in that city/town".

        After all thats what Russia seems to be doing in Ukraine nowadays.

    • You're hilarious and wrong. Tell me about the jet engine for your cruise missile.

      Sure, the electronics could have been done in 1980s or later, but that's about it.

      • If you paid attention, you would know that the Iranian drones are using piston engines.
        Who's wrong?

        • those are not cruise missiles, not remotely the same type of weapon. 80 lbs payload? 140 MPH? pffft.

          Tomahawk can deliver a half ton of ordinance at three-quarters speed of sound.

          you''re wrong and hilariously ignorant.

  • Require unique serial codes on each piece of circuitry manufactured by American firms. If a distributor is found to have sold technology to a smuggler, cancel their relationship and subject them to hefty fines. It's not rocket science, it's simply lack of political will.
    • Ever heard of hacking? This isn't going to work and it will make regular components not work.

    • "Require unique serial codes on each piece of circuitry"

      What does that even mean? And what if a circuit is made to be used as a TV remote control but is then used in an Iranian rocket? Should Roku get penalized if Iran buys 1000 TVs in Italy, dismantles them for some chip, and then sneaks them to Iran somehow?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 )

      haha no.

      These chips were made for two decades by foundries all over the world, including even in, wait for, Russia. They've been sold for everything from microwave ovens to weapons systems and cars.

      Not stuffing that genie back in the bottle.

    • Require unique serial codes on each piece of circuitry manufactured by American firms.

      We can't even keep other countries from decapping parts and counterfeiting them so as to be practically indistinguishable from genuine parts, so I don't think serializing them is really going to make much of a difference.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hey! ( 33014 )

      That assumes the manufacturer isn't in on it, and that the serial numbers are in some way indelible. Also that the components in question have a high enough value that marking them does not create significant cost increases. But even though we're going to wait potentially *years* before such a mandate ever gets passed, we already have a good start on nailing whoever did this.

      I'm sure that analysis knew Iran must have had access to some embargoed components to build these things, the problem was that the s

  • A component is a component and it can be shipped anywhere. Not much is going to stop people from getting the parts, the distribution network is too big. Most parts found in consumer products are shipped to china or other areas in asia where they are assembled, there is no way you are going to regulate the component market there. Lets say you do enact a bunch of laws that prevent parts from being transferred, the bad guys will setup shell companies or purchase them on the 3rd party markets and you are back

    • Re:Not much you can do about it. (Score:4, Informative)

      by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:12PM (#63183072)
      Not to mention that component shortages didn't stop Russia from getting parts for missiles. They bought thousands of microwaves to scavenge the parts from them to build missiles. Not a chance you'll stop that kind of activity.

      • Not to mention that component shortages didn't stop Russia from getting parts for missiles. They bought thousands of microwaves to scavenge the parts from them to build missiles. Not a chance you'll stop that kind of activity.

        Don't forget washing machines [cbsnews.com]. They even try to get around sanctions by importing from their neighbors [ukrainetoday.org].

        The publication collected data from Eurostat showing that Armenia imported more washing machines from the European Union in the first eight months of the year than in the last two years combined.

        A strange trend was noticed in the purchases of Kazakhstan. This country imported $21.4 million worth of European refrigerators through August 2022. This is more than three times the amount for the same period last year. At the same time, data from the government of Kazakhstan indicate a jump in the supply of refrigerators, washing machines and electric breast pumps to Russia.

  • they were buying parts a Hobby Lobby

  • The Sarbanes-Oxley regulations get a great deal of respect in the US. I believe it's because no employee thinks their job is likely to survive the CEO getting led away in cuffs, and every CEO is concerned that could happen.

    You want the businesses to take export control seriously? There's a demonstrated method of getting their attention.

  • I would like to see the drones copied with improved range, then gifted to Ukraine so that they could be lobbed over the Black Sea.

  • Wasn't there a huge drama when land mines in Iraq were found to have T.I. NE555 timers in them?

  • I think France is the supplier for Iran

  • So do you expect there to be any sort of enforceable sanctions against companies selling equipment to them? It was Obama's plan to solve the Middle East problem by making Iran the undisputed leader of the region.

Slashdot Top Deals

Their idea of an offer you can't refuse is an offer... and you'd better not refuse.

Close