Influence Networks In Russia Misled European Users, TikTok Says (nytimes.com) 121
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: Last summer, 1,704 TikTok accounts made a coordinated and covert effort to influence public discourse about the war in Ukraine, the company said on Thursday. Nearly all the accounts were part of a single network operating out of Russia that pretended to be based in Europe and aimed its posts at Germans, Italians and Britons, the company said. The accounts used software to use local languages that amplified pro-Russia propaganda, attracting more than 133,000 followers before being discovered and removed by TikTok.
TikTok disclosed the networks on Thursday in an in-depth report that examined its handling of disinformation in Europe, where it has more than 100 million users, noting that conflict in Ukraine "challenged us to confront a complex and rapidly changing environment." The social media platform compiled the findings to comply with the European Union's voluntaryCode of Practice on Disinformation, which counts Google, Meta and Twitter among its other signatories. TikTok offered the detailed look into its operations as it tried to demonstrate its openness in the face of continued regulatory scrutiny over its data security and privacy practices.
As a newer platform, TikTok is "in a unique position to innovate in the search for solutions to these longstanding industry challenges," Caroline Greer, Tiktok's director of public policy and government relations, said in a blog post on Thursday. The company did not say whether the accounts had ties to the Russian government. In its report, covering mid-June through mid-December 2022, TikTok said it took down more than 36,500 videos, with 183.4 million views, across Europe because they violated TikTok's harmful misinformation policy. The company removed nearly 865,000 fake accounts, with more than 18 million followers between them (including 2.3 million in Spain and 2.2 million in France). There were nearly 500 accounts taken down in Poland alone under TikTok's policy banning impersonation. Early in the fighting in Ukraine last year, the company said, it noticed a sharp rise in attempts to post ads related to political and combat content, even though TikTok does not allow such advertising. Some of the actions TikTok took to combat this misinformation include:
- started blocking Ukrainian and Russian advertisers from targeting European users
- hired native Russian and Ukrainian speakers to help with content moderation
- worked with Ukrainian-speaking reporters on fact-checking
- created a digital literacy program focused on information about the war
- restricted access to content from media outlets associated with the Russian government
- expanded its use of labels identifying state-sponsored material
- stopped recommending livestreamed videos coming from Russia and Ukraine to European users
TikTok disclosed the networks on Thursday in an in-depth report that examined its handling of disinformation in Europe, where it has more than 100 million users, noting that conflict in Ukraine "challenged us to confront a complex and rapidly changing environment." The social media platform compiled the findings to comply with the European Union's voluntaryCode of Practice on Disinformation, which counts Google, Meta and Twitter among its other signatories. TikTok offered the detailed look into its operations as it tried to demonstrate its openness in the face of continued regulatory scrutiny over its data security and privacy practices.
As a newer platform, TikTok is "in a unique position to innovate in the search for solutions to these longstanding industry challenges," Caroline Greer, Tiktok's director of public policy and government relations, said in a blog post on Thursday. The company did not say whether the accounts had ties to the Russian government. In its report, covering mid-June through mid-December 2022, TikTok said it took down more than 36,500 videos, with 183.4 million views, across Europe because they violated TikTok's harmful misinformation policy. The company removed nearly 865,000 fake accounts, with more than 18 million followers between them (including 2.3 million in Spain and 2.2 million in France). There were nearly 500 accounts taken down in Poland alone under TikTok's policy banning impersonation. Early in the fighting in Ukraine last year, the company said, it noticed a sharp rise in attempts to post ads related to political and combat content, even though TikTok does not allow such advertising. Some of the actions TikTok took to combat this misinformation include:
- started blocking Ukrainian and Russian advertisers from targeting European users
- hired native Russian and Ukrainian speakers to help with content moderation
- worked with Ukrainian-speaking reporters on fact-checking
- created a digital literacy program focused on information about the war
- restricted access to content from media outlets associated with the Russian government
- expanded its use of labels identifying state-sponsored material
- stopped recommending livestreamed videos coming from Russia and Ukraine to European users
ChatGPT (Score:5, Insightful)
Now imagine a not so distant future where ChatGPT or a similar system can create social media accounts, pretend to be people speaking different languages, disseminate fake information in a very convincing manner. Create photographic and video 'evidence', paperwork of some kind (fake passports, etc.) and direct narratives. Informational warfare will be at a new level. Today all of this os done by using human labour. A natural language processor system will be much more coordinated in its efforts at pushing info simultaneously, it will start and maintain fake conversations and will keep replying to anyone talking to it forever. Commanding public opinion is more important than having nuclear weapons.
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Commanding public opinion is more important than having nuclear weapons.
Only in democracies. You think li'l Kim in North Korea gives half a fuck about anyone's opinion?
That's also the Achilles heel of democracy: It is very dependent on responsible adults who are capable of figuring out whether they're fed bullshit by someone posing as an authority figure. Sadly, our education system doesn't produce anything remotely resembling that.
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You think li'l Kim in North Korea gives half a fuck about anyone's opinion?
Yes I do. In fact I would be its the number one thing he thinks about. Now he thinks about it differently than most of us do in the Western World.
Kim very very much wants to ensure everyone's opinion is - Kim is strong, powerful, and very much in charge, and I dare not challenge that.
Re:ChatGPT (Score:4, Insightful)
Not true. Commanding public opinions is first priority in autocracies and dictatorships even totalitarian ones. That is what they do by controlling every media source. As to the current war, the messaging is everything. Ukraine is getting weapons because of messaging, ruzzians need the West to stop helping Ukraine, that is why there are tens of thousands of them involved in this information war, including on this site.
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actually it is not about feeling sorry, it is about practical implications of allowing this to happen and the moral hazzard of letting the world understand that there are no consequences for this type of behaviour. The other part of it is also very practical, without constantly reminding that this is still going on and nothing has ended, the world would not be providing weapons. Even as it is right now, the weapons are not coming on time and not in quantity really to have a timely impact. If Ukraine cou
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It doesn't take much messaging to feel sorry for a country that got invaded by a bigger neighbor.
Two points here: first, there are quite a few people who don't really feel sorry even if they don't explicitly support Russia. They simply don't have enough empathy to care. See references to "it's an European problem" in this very thread. Or, even if they do feel sorry, they don't really feel sorry enough to risk being even slightly inconvenienced. Most of those are also short-term thinkers who don't realize letting Putin do his thing today will lead to worse escalations tomorrow.
Second, there are various
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You think li'l Kim in North Korea gives half a fuck about anyone's opinion?
Every leader cares more about the opinion of the people than they do about anything else, because everyone who works for them is a person and just one disgruntled person in the right place can ruin everything for you. They may choose to manufacture obedience through oppression, but that's still primarily for the purpose of convincing people that they have more to lose than to gain from disobedience.
That's also the Achilles heel of democracy: It is very dependent on responsible adults who are capable of figuring out whether they're fed bullshit by someone posing as an authority figure. Sadly, our education system doesn't produce anything remotely resembling that.
The fatal flaw of Democracy (or similar) is that it only works if the plebes keep a hand in. Once people give
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You forget about the narcissism of dictators. Putin started the war in order to improve the public opinion about him, expecting it to be as successful as after the annexation of Crimea.
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Are you confident of that? I'm pretty sure he started the war to prevent Ukraine becoming a member of NATO.
We knew that was very likely to cause a war [wikileaks.org] but still kept pushing. Now Ukraine is paying for our hubris, and I worry that our billions in "aid" aren't going to cover the debt of this proxy war. My wager is we'll have nontrivial American troop buildups in Eastern Europe here in the next couple of months. God, I hope I'm wrong.
Full disclosure: My antiwar leanings here are heavily influence by my kid
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Only in democracies. You think li'l Kim in North Korea gives half a fuck about anyone's opinion?
that's pretty naive. public opinion doesn't mean squat because democracies can shape and control it simply by owning the media, which they extensively do. even apparent polarization extremes in the us like e.g. cnn and fox (clearly two steaming propaganda machines) will rally when it means defending the status quo and the common narrative.
social media is a bit messier but serves the same purpose, as this very news story shows. it's mostly noise.
even when public opinion is in opposition to the narrative, it
Re:ChatGPT (Score:4, Insightful)
An absolutely great example of why people publishing on line NEED to be forced to take the responsibility any other publisher has. The platforms HAVE to be accountable because as a practical matter its they are really do the harm, by putting the stuff under a lot of eyeballs. Which does not mean that we have to let the individuals behind the posts where they can actually be found off the hook either, but Meta, Google, Twitter, etc have to own what is on their sites.
The common carrier model some of the far right and left ask for won't work, but neither does CDA-230 and the status quo. What would EVENTUALLY work is treating them like every other publisher.
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the poster I am replying to is part of the disinformation campaign. You know, they will replace you with a ChatGPT or some other tool, your job is not that complex for a system like that.
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The problem with this narrative is that this is in fact a war that was instigated primarily by US-Russia relationship being what it is. US spent a long time and a large amount of both political and economic capital specifically instigating Ukrainians to abandon policy of neutrality and pick US side against Russia specifically. There's a reason why Nuland and McCain were on the ground during Maidan, and why Nuland is recorded negotiating with US ambassador to Ukraine at the time on who should lead the transi
Re: ChatGPT (Score:2)
You canâ(TM)t blame the US for this. Invading Ukraine and committing vile war crimes against its people was a choice. Ukraine posed no threat to Russia. In fact, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees, which Russia had reneged on.
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Where did I lay any blame?
All I did was note who was responsible for geopolitical developments that led to this war. In fact, even if we put the ideological blinders on as you did, and go fully with your narrative of "deal on nuclear weapons is the only relevant thing", there are other great power signatories to that deal in addition to Russia. Specifically, the great power who's responsibility I write of above.
Which confirms my point on this conflict needing a US-Russia solution.
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The topic I was addressing was:
>Guess no what - as an America I am still for stopping our participation in this. Ukraine is a European problem and it should get a European solution. It not the job of our government to play world police. Its to promote the general welfare, provide for the defesne, ... to OURSELVES and our posterity.
Russia is utterly irrelevant to this topic. This is purely about who's primary responsibility this is on our side. Not about what's happening on theirs.
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Where did I lay any blame?
All I did was note who was responsible
yeah... totally different.
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I'm not sure what "totally" means in this context, but those are certainly not synonyms.
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Blame
verb - to assign responsibility for a fault or wrong.
noun - responsibility for a fault or wrong.
The dictionary disagrees with you.
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That's a hell of a freudian slip, to suggest that US offering Ukraine a choice it offered was "a fault or a wrong".
I don't see it that way, which is why I didn't even consider this particular connection.
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Yes. To their credit, they offered Ukrainians a choice in spite of an inherent risk it posed. But with that come responsibility for their side of the bargain.
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>Why not just say you credit America in the first place then? And by implication, think the war was a good idea.
I don't credit US for war, nor do I think the war was a good idea. In fact, I remain of opinion that Maidan as it was executed by the likes of Nuland and McCain was fucking idiotic. Instead of continuing to slowly pull Ukraine off Russian orbit, someone was clearly in a hurry to get their legacy of totally dismembering Russian sphere of influence before their death of old age related illnesses.
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As I was editing this, I apparently deleted the whole paragraph that was addressing one of your points that I really should address. I do lay the primary blame on Russia for the war, for a very simple reason.
Ultimately, the current world order is the one where we largely agree that even small nation states have a right to self determination, even if it goes natural spheres of influence as projected by imperial great powers. But only if those nation states can prove to the great power in question that they c
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Fun part: comparison is straight from one of the US intelligence briefings that was trying to explain the problem to less informed individuals.
I'm sure they're pro-Russian too. Somehow.
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No, because if Putin was to die fifteen years ago, whoever was the current leader would have done something similar.
For example, similar things were done to secure Russia by:
Peter the Great.
Katherine the Great.
Stalin.
That's a Russian, German and Georgian from three different eras. The only unifying thing for them is that they were leaders of states that controlled Russia and had the same problem with geography as Putin's Russia does.
Leaders come and go. Geography is eternal (at least from human perspective,
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You genuinely expect me to spend an hour or two looking up the exact intelligence briefing and then spend another hour looking through it to find exact timing... just to answer a random moron who's spent so much time and effort trolling me, but is so utterly sad that he won't even do it from his own account?
You sure have a high opinion of yourself.
As for differences, America today couldn't wipe Cuba off the map easily. Not only is its military not built for that kind of warfare, but domestic opinion would r
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Did you finally arrive at the sane position that "propaganda tends to follow reality and merely select which specific parts of reality to emphasize and which to obfuscate"?
As for "saner leader", are you seriously so stupid as to think that Putin is not sane?
There are many monickers to apply to leaders like him that can be argued for. From "genocidal" to "evil" to "patriotic" to "realist".
But one that you most certainly cannot apply to the man is "insane". His actions are logical, concise and have a clear, p
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I believe I outlined specifics in Russian culture above that lead them to be extremely tolerant to loss of human life even on their own side, much less that they see as enemy, and you seemed to take real umbrage with that at the time. Glad to see I got you to change your mind.
And yet, you once again dive into "only leader matters" mode. Leaders in terms of specifics of personality are mostly irrelevant in this aspect of human existence. Interests are the relevant part, as are capabilities. Leaders are const
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Our planners certainly believe MAD is real. So do theirs. But does Russia believe it has a long term future? Hint: look at their demographics.
And there's something to be said about dying on your terms, rather than on the terms of your historic enemies. A lot in fact. Let me drop another thing you may look into. Slavery and how it relates to "slavic" being an ethnic group.
Yeah.
And yes, Russians will behave like Russians always behaved. Because their culture is borne out of their horrible demography and count
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The problem with this narrative is that this is in fact a war that was instigated primarily by US-Russia relationship being what it is. US spent a long time and a large amount of both political and economic capital specifically instigating Ukrainians to abandon policy of neutrality and pick US side against Russia specifically.
This war was instigated primarily by the Ukraine-Russian relationship. Any stance where Ukraine saw itself as anything other than a vassal state of Russia would have ended up this way. Ukraine is positioned to be able to control the Sea of Azov, and as a world leader in many key exports [worldstopexports.com] being able to control that give Russia a significant boost on the world stage. As far back as 2014, right after annexing Crimea, Russia was making grabs for oil and gas [oilprice.com] under Ukraine controls.
The idea of a "policy of neutral
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I am well aware of our side's propaganda narrative. You don't need to regurgitate it for me.
Problem is, I'm also well aware of the other side's propaganda, and I'm also well aware of actual facts of the matter. Such as for example the fact that Yanukovich wasn't "pro Russia" but actually about 40/60 balanced in favor of Russia. More specifically, he was Eastern Ukrainian candidate, pushing for interests of Ukrainian heavy industry over ag and IT sector. He was the one who prepped and signed on the EU deal f
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What a long winded way to say that Russia isn’t responsible for invading.
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What a short way to tell us that you see the world as black and white, and that even minor difference in shade from black appears white to you.
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I'm sure you even believe this. Genuinely.
In real world on the other hand, even as wars are prosecuted, there are plenty of shades of gray. For example, did you know that current gas supplies to Europe from Russia which are still operational... are piped through Ukraine?
And not just through Ukraine, but pretty close to actual front lines. And neither side is shooting at the pipes or shutting them down. And Russia is still paying Ukraine transit fees, while Ukraine still pays Russia for gas it buys. The gas
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You seem really disturbed by reality, to the point of assuming really stupid things about me and issuing really sad death threats over the internet.
Funniest part is, these gas supplies are not just major, but utterly critical to Ukraine and several EU nations downstream that pipeline. And supply volumes are massive.
You don't even need to believe me. Just search for "Ukraine explains importing Russian gas during war" or something similar. Though you'll probably dismiss Ukrainian minister and several Ukrainia
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I proudly stand with Ukrainian ministers and bureaucrats you are accusing of the crime of being "Russian", "instigator", and whatever other monikers you choose to throw my way.
For reference, are there any people who observe the fact about Russian gas flow through Ukraine that you wouldn't make those accusations at, and if so, why?
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First, I want to reiterate what others are telling you about the responsibility for invasion and war crimes being on Russia and Putin.
Second, though, I need to take issue with one thing you said specifically here: "They know what they did, and they understand that they now have a duty to uphold their part of the bargain."
I love my country, and am proud of the principles it purported to be founded on and occasionally even tries to live up to. But if our government acted on a notion of duty to uphold their pa
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Your confusion on "responsibility" and "blame" (which is indeed what others keep accusing me of, because they project their ignorance on my message rather than attempt to comprehend it as it is), combined with utter lack of understanding of the subject of offering sovereign government and people it represents a de facto political alignment in exchange for security on nation state level vs supporting a rebellion going against a sovereign government suggests that you're quite a bit out of your depth on this o
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I understand the differences and more of the relevant histories than we have time to get into here very well, you condescending little biznatch. But I also understand *honor* and *duty* in ways that our government seemed to lose sight of a while back, and *in that context*, they *aren't* that different. Give your word, mean it, follow through. If you can't mean it, then don't give it, and if you can't or might not be able to follow through, then at the very least be transparent about that from the get-go. M
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Fully agreed that if it's not in interest of US to continue war support, it would be dropped. No one is expecting any different.
Point remains that spooks and diplomats understand that, and understand national interests. Which includes both things like "first time in a very long time we have partners that are actually willing to stand and fight against our enemies as long as we provide support" and "we bet our reputation as a nation on providing this support, pretty much every ally we have, be they NATO or M
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[...]Ukrainians [...] abandon policy of neutrality and pick US side against Russia specifically.
Ah, the bully/wife-beater defense. "See what you made me do? If you just did whatever I told you to do without opposition, I wouldn't have had to beat you up. It's all your fault!"
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Sit down for this. You'll be shocked by what I'm about to say.
Bullying is the natural human tribal tendency that is normal among all human cultures.
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Not for humans though. Our primary mode of adaptation has been cultural rather than genetic for at least several dosens of milenia.
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Have you tried reading comprehension? I literally stated that "human evolution is..." which definitionally requires humans to be creatures that are a part of evolutionary process.
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Nominally I consider you a friendly on this site, but cut the bullshit. I am not a bot.
- I didn't say you were a bot, I said you are part of the disinformation campaign, if you are a part that is not paid for it, then it just makes you a useful idiot.
Guess no what - as an America I am still for stopping our participation in this. Ukraine is a European problem and it should get a European solution. It not the job of our government to play world police. Its to promote the general welfare, provide for the defesne, ... to OURSELVES and our posterity.
- no, it's not the job, it's the right thing to do, how about that? It is morally the correct thing to do, it is *also* a smart thing to do.
Today putin sees that nobody stops him and takes over part of Ukraine, tomorrow China does the same with Taiwan, etc. The correct and smart thing to do is to stop this propagating any further in its track
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If I am a useful idiot you are just an other shill for the military industrial complex.
Its not the right or moral thing to do for our government to just screw the social contract we are supposed to exist under we going taking your blood and treasure and going to fight a foreign war of choice, whose outcome has little or not impact on you.
At least with Taiwan you can argument there is a very direct economic and well being interest for the average American citizen. You can make an argument that checking Chine
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Yes, those happened because of our war of choice and sanctions regime we lead the way imposing.
The sad truth but it is the truth is probably the best outcome for the average American would have been a switch capitulation by Kiev.
Which would have minimized the destruction of capital and minimized the impacts on trade as a result of warfare.
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No, wrong. Your propaganda is transparent and boring. There cannot be and will not be any capitulation by Kiev and it would only allow putin to continue the war with Ukrain as part of his war effort, by this time the would have been near Germany and it is definitely not something that would benefit any American.
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Russia is the world's largest grain exporter. Of course grain prices skyrocketed when the sanctions were put in place.
EXACTLY - The when you look at the actual facts, its completely clear American interests (that of the ordinary citizen anyway) are not aligned with the Kiev regime's.
There only arguments for our involvement are ones of ethics - do we step in and help Ukraine just because what Putin is doing is evil and wrong. I would argue the answer is a hard NO. The United States Government under its organizing document really can't justify participation in wars of choice. Unless you can argue a the nation it self will be eventually threatened. In the case of Russia today that just isnt realistic.
We were wrong to enter WWI - and the price everyone paid was WWII. We should learn a damn lesson form history for once.
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Right, you are a complete tool of the ruzzian propaganda, to call government of Ukraine a 'regime' is the a telltale, you are working for their propaganda, whether the work is paid for or not is irrelevant (for your own sake I hope you are getting some money for it, that's because at some not so distant future, you will need all the savings that you manage to accumulate for your escape).
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Got it you're a complete shill for the globalist propaganda machine. Let me guess you have a nice little nest egg in Raytheon stock.
Screw all those innocent people who just wanted to get up and go to work they are going to participate in your refusal to accept its not 1980 any anymore and Russia and the US don't have a meaningful cause ot be in conflict. Fuck your fellow American who is just trying to buy groceries and keep their kids warm. Oh no they are all going to participate in your pointless proxy w
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Yeah, bullshit, if ruzzia hadn't attacked Ukraine there wouldn't be any increase in weapon production, so if anyone has military complex company's stock it should be ruzzian government (and you probably).
As to myself 'profiting' from this war, I profited alright, I already spent over half a million USD on this war directly, spending my money, purchased over 10 used vehicles, hundreds of bullet proof vests, helmets, rifle parts, 6 Autel drones with thermal cameras (over 10k each, fairly expensive), maybe 8 t
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If I am a useful idiot you are just an other shill for the military industrial complex.
- seriously? Shill for the military industrial complex? I think you are actually paid for this, I really hope so in any case.
Its not the right or moral thing to do for our government to just screw the social contract we are supposed to exist under we going taking your blood and treasure and going to fight a foreign war of choice, whose outcome has little or not impact on you.
- really, there will be no impact? So destabilization of the European continent is of no impact to America?
Again, I hope you are paid for this, because otherwise it is just so sad (even sadder than if you are paid for this). ruzzia will not stop at Ukraine obviously, the point of the war is not to stop, but to continue indefinitely. Taking Ukraine is just a step on the way for
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Again, I hope you are paid for this, because otherwise it is just so sad (even sadder than if you are paid for this). ruzzia will not stop at Ukraine obviously, the point of the war is not to stop, but to continue indefinitely. Taking Ukraine is just a step on the way for the war to continue further, putin cannot stop at all until he is forcefully stopped. So he will continue into every country that borders Ukraine if it should fall.
The next step for putin is regrouping, walking over Moldova, attacking Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, then it's Romania. Hungary will likely just join in, just like Serbia. This is not a local conflict by any stretch of imagination, because the stated goals are 'ruzzia from Lisbon to Vladivostok.
Hyperbolic nonsense like this doesn't help any cause, including Ukraine, if that's the goal here. First, no war can continue indefinitely, not country's economy can support indefinite war except maybe US, not to mention manpower and weaponry would eventually run out. A year after the invasion Russia has lost a lot of territory it took in the initial attack, it's struggling to even take control over the entirety of the Donbass breakaway republics. The probability of Kiev falling seems vanishingly small, let
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It's not hyperbolic, it's the stated goal. A war can continue as long as the side that started it can go on and it is just naive to think that ruzzia is unable to keep conscripting its population *and* it forces the people of the newly occupied territories to become part of its war machine. ruzzian economy is irrelevant, you are thinking in terms of someone who cannot survive without power, large food stores, etc., that's not what ruzzia is. There are 25 million households in ruzzia today that have no ce
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You want to destroy section 230 (Score:2)
So there's two ways destroying section 230 play out. One way is the Free speech Paradise where some perverse version of common carrier exists and anything goes. In this case the chat bots just want the platform with troll posts from right-wing commentators. This is why you see the right wing pushing for this so hard it's a battl
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You know, with some of the crap some people post here, I think this may already have happened.
If you are interested in seeing a live example (Score:2)
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Post an example of pro-NATO propaganda.
Come on Sergei, spend five minutes of your professional trolling time manufacturing something. Keeps your filthy hands busy.
Re:hmm, propaganda goes both ways (Score:5, Insightful)
are they planning to shutdown pro-NATO propaganda too ?
The Russian Army deliberately targeting civilians in Ukraine is the best pro-NATO propaganda ever. "If you don't want this to happen to your own country, join NATO now.", e.g. Finland and Sweden. If Russia wants to shut down pro-NATO propaganda, maybe Russia should just stop murdering Ukrainian civilians.
How about blocking China (Score:1)
Give the Ad Money Back, Then? (Score:2)
Tiktok is pissed off.... (Score:2)
Tiktok is not the dump GOP. GOP built assiduously a fortress against Democrats and Trump just waltzed and took it over. Tiktok wont give up its exclusive access to chumps so easily.
"Influencers" (Score:2)
Both... (Score:2)
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I don't think its right imply some sort of misinformation equivalence here.
Re:So Dangerous (Score:5, Interesting)
Which may be the case or more than likely are reports of real anecdotes that however isolated are simply inconvenient for Western propaganda mouths.
Come on. We all see it, even on here. One year ago you could possibly be excused for putting about the belief that this is just a matter of different emphasis. Let's go back to simple science, however. All the people telling us such opinions first told us "Russia will not invade, this is all made up by US intelligence", then told us all "it will all be over in two weeks, Russia is bound to walk over Ukraine" and then told us "both sides are equally bad".
Simple scientific principle. You use your theories to make predictions and based on that we judge if they are right. Well, we first saw Russia did invade. Then we saw that Ukraine did stand up to them and resisted and even got back some of their country. Finally we started seeing horrors like Bucha, and everyone sensible understood that Russia now is one of those great evils like Ghengis Khan and his horde, Stalin and Holodomor or Pol Pot in Cambodia and that, in the end if you are spreading their propaganda that makes you a source of evil too.
We need to work out a better system for dealing with this, but now we have what we have and they do what little they can.
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Because they have no idea. All they know is they got a bunch of scary letters from EU/UK/US intelligence agencies they are not aloud to talk about that say blah blah account is posting Russian disinformation.
Because there's no way these intelligence agencies could use a number of different sources, whether humint or digital, to determine what was going on. No way in this universe they had the ability to make such determinations and don't want to compromise those sources.
After all, it's not as if whatever R
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Sure, like Hamilton 68, purported to be a think thank sponsored by various left wing organization (Brookings, Germany etc), we now know is a government intelligence operation had a supposed list of hundreds of such Russian disinformation accounts but we now know were not only overwhelmingly English-language (86%), but mostly ‘legitimate people’ largely in the U.S., Canada, and Britain that disagreed with the government in some fashion.
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OK Ivan
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This is really the worst part of folks like DarkOx, they're in constant uproar about how evil the West is when it dares to tackle misinformation, or about what Western security services are doing.
Censorship in Russia? Summary executions? Disappearances of dissidents to concentration camps? Blocked foreign media? No fucking peep out of them over that shit, oh no, the CIA are spying on bad people on the internet, it's the end of the world! Snowden said Western intelligence is evil, so the FSB must be the pinn
Re:So Dangerous (Score:5, Informative)
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Prime example right here.
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You won’t catch me riding Putin’s nuts.
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Oh look, an anti-vaxx vatnik spreading the idea that Russian propaganda should be allowed because "free speech". How fucking original.
Propaganda campaigns run by hostile foreign states on a commercial scale designed to undermine the targeted states has never been protected speech, and never will be.
I'm sorry your pal Putin is losing, maybe he shouldn't have fucking invaded in the first place.
P.S. Get the fucking jab you selfish ingrate.
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A lot of this can in fact be traced directly to Russian accounts, usually on Telegram posting original material like war footage. It's same kind of thing we get to see on our mainstream media, just from their point of view. I.e. a highly selective collection of facts that benefits their vision of how the world should be.
In this regard, you can think of this as "us defending our world view against people who have a genuinely different, competing world view and are more than willing to prosecute war of conque
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How am I supposed to believe this in light of the complete debunking of claims of Russian election interference over at Twitter? ref: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/st [twitter.com]...
You're supposed to get smarter [justsecurity.org].
Like Iraq's WMDs, the "evidence" for those claims was manufactured at the request of people that wanted it to be true.
There are piles of actual evidence you're ignoring in favor of blather from a known troll.
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How am I supposed to believe this in light of the complete debunking of claims of Russian election interference over at Twitter?
Go to ZH and experience the Dumb Russian Shill Army; it's the ying to Slashdot's yang.
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How am I supposed to believe this in light of the complete debunking of claims of Russian election interference over at Twitter? ref: https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/st... [twitter.com]
Like Iraq's WMDs, the "evidence" for those claims was manufactured at the request of people that wanted it to be true. Do we have any assurance that is not the case this time?
So according to that link Twitter resisted efforts by Democratic politicians to push a particular narrative.
Which seems quite at odds with all the suggestions I heard that Twitter was colluding with Democrats.
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Mr. Tabibi's reporting includes largely unredacted source documents. It's possible they are cherry picked to tell a false narrative, but I don't see that. If you've read the "Twitter files" series, I'd be curious to hear specific criticisms.