Future Fords Could Repossess Themselves, Drive Away If You Miss Payments (thedrive.com) 180
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Drive: Ford applied for a patent to make the repossession process go smoother. For the bank, that is. The patent document was submitted to the United States Patent Office in August 2021 but it was formally published Feb. 23. It's titled "Systems and Methods to Repossess a Vehicle." It describes several ways to make the life of somebody who has missed several car payments harder.
It explicitly says the system, which could be installed on any future vehicle in the automaker's lineup with a data connection would be capable of "[disabling] a functionality of one or more components of the vehicle." Everything from the engine to the air conditioning. For vehicles with autonomous or semi-autonomous driving capability, the system could "move the vehicle from a first spot to a second spot that is more convenient for a tow truck to tow the vehicle... move the vehicle from the premises of the owner to a location such as, for example, the premises of the repossession agency," or, if the lending institution considers the "financial viability of executing a repossession procedure" to be unjustifiable, the vehicle could drive itself to the junkyard.
No other automakers have recently attempted to patent a similar system, and indeed the Ford patent doesn't reference any other legal document for the sake of clarifying its idea. All of this being said, patent documents, especially applications like this one, do not necessarily represent an automaker's intent to introduce the described feature, process, or technology to its vehicles. Ford might just be attempting to protect this idea for the sake of doing so. The document does go into a lot of detail as to how such a system might work, though.
It explicitly says the system, which could be installed on any future vehicle in the automaker's lineup with a data connection would be capable of "[disabling] a functionality of one or more components of the vehicle." Everything from the engine to the air conditioning. For vehicles with autonomous or semi-autonomous driving capability, the system could "move the vehicle from a first spot to a second spot that is more convenient for a tow truck to tow the vehicle... move the vehicle from the premises of the owner to a location such as, for example, the premises of the repossession agency," or, if the lending institution considers the "financial viability of executing a repossession procedure" to be unjustifiable, the vehicle could drive itself to the junkyard.
No other automakers have recently attempted to patent a similar system, and indeed the Ford patent doesn't reference any other legal document for the sake of clarifying its idea. All of this being said, patent documents, especially applications like this one, do not necessarily represent an automaker's intent to introduce the described feature, process, or technology to its vehicles. Ford might just be attempting to protect this idea for the sake of doing so. The document does go into a lot of detail as to how such a system might work, though.
Hmmm (Score:4)
Guess I'll be parking my car in a Faraday cage.
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Or on jack stands.
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Anyway, I predicted exactly this just a short while ago:
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Funny)
Or on some bricks with the tires removed.
Oh look, the neighbors already took care of that.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
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This kind of thing has already happened. Some lease companies have remote immobilizer tech, and people have been stranded on the highway when they stalled and couldn't restart the engine, or stopped for a comfort break.
I seem to recall a story from the last year or two about a rental that wouldn't restart in a remote area because it didn't have any cell coverage to authorize its use.
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I really don't like the idea of outside parties being able to log in and access MY car that I bought.
I really don't like the idea it could be remotely disabled or in this case...have it just drive off.
Combine this with a "social credit score" and well,...this just plain gets nasty.
You say or f
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Just wrap the car in tinfoil, or maybe just unplug the antenna from the telematics module.
The good news is that the software for these things is usually so bad that they couldn't disable your car if they wanted to.
Re: Hmmm (Score:2)
Tape covers on sensors, the car will think it's blocked-in
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Just wrap the car in tinfoil, or maybe just unplug the antenna from the telematics module.
I can't tell if this sentence was serious. Back in the day we wrapped rabbit ears with foil to increase tv reception.
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My point is stopping EVs and stopping the tech that allows corporations to continue to own and control the car after they sell it to you. have nothing to do with eachother. There's no reason they wouldn't put all of this crap into a gas guzzling SUV.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Or more likely, the system will be hacked and car thieves will make a killing as Fords obligingly help themselves be stolen.
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Well, you can make a killing dismantling them and selling the spare parts. People who actually want to drive one of these things have a constant need for them.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
The technology already exists and is used today. I would forsee that Ford would be using it on those kinds of vehicles.
These are for the places where you can get a car even if you have absolutely terrible credit. What they do is install a disable device so if you miss enough payments, the disable device kicks in. The disable device disables the starter, so it won't be if they engage it and suddenly you go from traveling at 80mph down the interstate and come to a sudden halt right in the middle of traffic. Instead you drive it normally until you shut down the engine and there your car stays parked permanently.
Of course it comes with a GPS tracker so the repo guys simply pick it up.
And yes, those devices do fail regularly. There are reports of people buying cars and suddenly having those devices activate - usually without their knowledge because it was purchased and sold a few times over. And of course, there's always the problem of parking in a dangerous area and not being able to start your car.
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What they do is install a disable device so if you miss enough payments, the disable device kicks in. The disable device disables the starter, so it won't be if they engage it and suddenly you go from traveling at 80mph down the interstate and come to a sudden halt right in the middle of traffic. Instead you drive it normally until you shut down the engine and there your car stays parked permanently.
Or if you have a car with stop/start and get stuck in traffic...
Aaron Z
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, they'll put a whole bunch of new sensors inside the car to detect occupancy, so no baby need suffer.
But if any one of those thousand sensors goes bad, the car will go into limp mode as a safety precaution. The dealer will be happy to fix the sensor and "unlock" from limp mode for a mere $1999.99. Remember, if financing is an issue, we have payment plans available!
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So to avoid my Ford to get repo'ed, junior will live out his infant days in my car, gotcha.
Re: Hmmm (Score:2)
Why not just stay current on car payments?
So the idea is you 'buy' (finance) a car, you fall behind on payments, but you still need the car, so you then try and figure out ways to avoid the rightful owner of the car taking it back?
Why do you deserve use of a car you're not paying for?
(I realize this is all hypothetical, it's just easier to discuss it this way)
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People will be buying wheel clamps to prevent their cars driving away on them.
Another option is a little remote control relay that cuts the 12V battery power.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Or just put it in the garage, under a tarp / carpet, or put tape / gum / marker pen on the cameras. Anything that makes the car refuse to move. I expect if self driving cars are ever a thing on the roads that many of them will be taken out of action by griefers with similar measures.
Re: Hmmm (Score:2)
Why not just make your car payments?
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Insert dead baby joke here. Remember those? Too risque for the Internet nowadays.
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You just know it's going to make a mistake thinking someone missed their payment and drive off with their baby in the back seat while they ran in the house for a minute.
That's the best possible outcome for everyone but the person it happens to, because it will be the end of this technology when Ford literally kidnaps someone's child.
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Baby gets crushed and thrown into the metal chipper..
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Yeah I hate this kind of tech. You just know it's going to make a mistake thinking someone missed their payment and drive off with their baby in the back seat while they ran in the house for a minute.
This is a possibility even with a valid default.
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Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Guess I'll be parking my car in a Faraday cage.
As fun as the rhetoric over on /r/antiwork might sound (paging rsilvergun), falling behind on your car note sucks for more reasons than getting to star in your own personal reboot of "Dude, where's my car?"
First and foremost, repo men can take your car quickly. You run in to Walmart for a few things, come back out and just like that South Park meme, and it's gone! Unless you just want it as a rather large decoration for your garage, once the repo men have their eyes on it, your car is now useless as a means of transport.
Then there's the damage to your credit, which means for at least 7 years you'll only be able to get approved for interest rates that will make you want to vomit (assuming you aren't flat out denied the loan completely). You'll probably have to pay cash for your next set of wheels, or purchase from a buy-here-pay-here car dealer where you'll overpay by a significant margin for a barely-running jalopy.
If all of this wasn't enough fun, the lender of your repossessed vehicle can also sue you for a deficiency judgment if the vehicle didn't sell for enough money to cover the remaining balance of your loan, after they auction the vehicle off.
Be sure to join me in the next episode of "Powercntrl's Guide to a Bad Economy", where we'll discuss defaulting on credit card debts and short selling your home. It's fun for the whole family!
Expanding on Repo Men (Score:2)
Okay, I remember seeing a show featuring "repo men". Don't remember if it was a single episode where they cover a different topic, or specifically on repossessions.
When Powercntrl says "can take your car quickly", I think that it's a British Understatement.
It isn't just going in and buying a few things at walmart and finding your car gone. They can literally have it out before you reach the doors on the way in.
You see, they don't run with standard tow trucks most of the time. They actually have a system
Fun little detail (Score:2)
Fun little detail: it'll be an option you can choose to pay for or not :)
Re: Hmmm (Score:2)
Or, stay current on your car payments?
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the bank has deep pockets autonomous kills someone (Score:2)
the bank has deep pockets to pay up when that autonomous car kills someone
Prior Art? (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure Tesla could do that now if they wanted to. I have to wonder what potential legal issue could arise from doing that.
I have also wondered why it hasn't been discussed very widely that Tesla could completely brick every car they ever made that is connected to the network. It was always possible that they could have done it accidentally, so what if they claimed the right to do it on purpose?
OnStar has something similar also (Score:2)
OnStar has an ignition block feature [onstar.com]. There's no technical reason it couldn't also be used to immobilize a vehicle if the owner falls behind on the payments.
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be used to immobilize a vehicle if the owner falls behind on the payments
We've literally been doing this [npr.org] for easily over ten years now and really I'd say the first were some fifteen years ago. People need to read the agreement they sign with the bank better. Like at first there was a lot of litigation over "mistakes" but banks have gotten a lot better at preventing "oopsie" at this point. So the whole thing you and the parent are discussing as "what would happen if..." Yeah, we already did all of it.
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I wonder how bad it will get before people start replacing their car's computers with a raspberry pi. I mean just so they can have the functionality of a 1995 era car
Re: OnStar has something similar also (Score:2)
FFS, you think people will simply hack up a new vehicle control system for their car just to prevent their financier from repossessing a car they stopped making payments on?
How simple do you think car automation systems are?
How technically-savvy is the average car buyer that fails to make payments?
Rather than literally redesign their car computer system, the owner falling behind on payments would be better served to take on a part-time job to make car payments.
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"if they wanted to" isn't prior art nor is a system capable of doing so.
"I have also wondered why it hasn't been discussed very widely that Tesla could completely brick every car they ever made that is connected to the network. It was always possible that they could have done it accidentally, so what if they claimed the right to do it on purpose?"
Who says it hasn't been "discussed very widely"? More interesting is that others can brick Teslas too, and actually have.Ex-Tesla are an interesting resource on t
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Tesla could completely brick every car they ever made that is connected to the network
The 5G network? Suddenly I'm feeling a whole lot better. 4/5G connectivity is a joke out here.
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"if they wanted to" isn't prior art nor is a system capable of doing so.
Technically correct, but it does usually lead to a pretty strong obviousness argument.
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I'm pretty sure Tesla could do that now if they wanted to.
Telsa has already done this [engadget.com]... except it wasn't intentional.
Hey Ford, here’s an idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Try employing fewer futurist-CS-majors and more mechanical, electrical, manufacturing and reliability engineers.
they've patented a new Ford joke (Score:4, Funny)
How about focusing on quality and reliability of your vehicles
If the car was functional enough to drive itself back to the dealer, the owner wouldn't have stopped making payments in the first place.
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Re: they've patented a new Ford joke (Score:2)
Do you really think the only reason buyers stop making car payments is because the car is not drivable?
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Worse, the inventor's other contributions to intellectual property at Ford involve cabin lighting. "CS major" is giving too much credit.
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Therefore, the effect on their bottom line might be bigger than you think.
Re:Hey Ford, here’s an idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Kind of. The car building arms and finance arms got separated in the 2008 crash. Before then they absolutely were just finance companies. But any car company that took government assistance to restructure had their finance arm stripped off. Hence why GMAC is now Ally Financial
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C'mon, we all know this technology is doomed to fail anyway. Imagine calling "your" Ford to return to base but it doesn't start.
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Even better, start focusing on making cheap reliable cars so people can actually afford their payments...
Already there (Score:5, Funny)
My Ford just breaks down if I skip payments.
Then again, I think it also breaks down when I pay.
Ahh, so heartening! (Score:2, Insightful)
Just kidding. I'm fucking kidding.
Granddaughter: "Grandpa, what did you invent again?"
Grandpa: "I invented a new, innovative way to fuck over poor people and profit off their suffering. Lots of people thought of it, but I was the asshole who was morally depra
Re:Ahh, so heartening! (Score:4)
The poor should be "fucked over" if by "poor" you mean "people who don't honor their commitments," and by "fucked over" you mean "expected to honor their commitments."
I was poor for about half my life. I bought beater cars (one costing literally a hundred bucks) when I could afford cars at all. I also walked, biked, and took the bus. At no point did I ever consider taking out a loan I was not reasonably sure I could pay back, nor would I have been resentful if I did take out such a loan, did not pay it back as agreed, and had my vehicle repossessed as a result, also as agreed.
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So where is the moral deficiency if a person takes out a loan they can afford, pays for a year or two, then the CEO of their employer has his shares vest so he goes layoff crazy to fluff up the price and sells it off for a massive profit? The business then tanks because it was cut to the bone. The CEO deploys the golden parachute. The employees miss a car payment or two, and then can't go on interviews because their car drove itself away.
Meanwhile, there's an army of car dealers doing their damnedest to con
Hot deaths (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe Ford filed the patent to prevent automated repossessions - i.e. they'll never license this tech.
Someone in this discussion put it quite well: this tech can leave a driver stranded in bad weather on the side of the road as their car drives away with their coat inside. Maybe Ford want to prevent this happening.
BUT 30-50 kids die each year from car hot deaths. -- just in the US. And many more pets.
Surely, given all the hoohaah and greed about autonomous driving, it's trivial today to build sensors (camera, ultrasonic, radar) that detect a living being locked in a car and partially roll down the windows while sounding the alarm. And it's also trivial to sell kits to retrofit this function onto previous model vehicles.
From elsewhere:
"Ford is expected to have Rear Occupant Alert as a standard feature on all of their vehicles by 2025."
Why is Ford not focussing on preventing deaths by implementing this as a standard feature in 2023, instead of focussing on repossession tech?
Or maybe there's a grand plan. First comes the Rear Occupant Alert by 2025. This helps avoid the 'baby in backseat' effect (like when a car is hijacked). Then comes the repossession tech.
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You say "focusing on", but there's no indication that Ford engineers are actually working on implementing this right now. It's just a document written by a lawyer, describing an idea.
I doubt the legal department has any significant role in moving Rear
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A full model change is the best bet to implement newer technology (wiring harnesses are a p.i.t.a.). It could have taken Ford that long to fully refresh their lineup to include the technology.
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Because vehicle dealers don't care about your kids, only about your money.
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To be fair they probably aren't "focusing" on this tech. Someone had an idea, and they paid someone else to write up a patent based on it. Companies do it all the time because a patent portfolio is a valuable asset. Even if Ford doesn't use it, maybe in future someone else will want to licence it, or perhaps they can offer it in exchange for some tech they do want. It might also slow down competitors and their self driving efforts by closing off a source of revenue.
In this case I'd say it's probably better
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And since fortunately neither human nor computer errors ever happen, you cannot have this happen to you without ever having done anything wrong.
Time to quote the Unabomber screed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Time to quote the Unabomber screed (Score:5, Insightful)
Having power is like riding a rabid bull. Sure, everyone's afraid of you and gives you the right of way, but when you have a moment to think about it while trying desperately to stay on the bull, you'll notice that it's the bull, not you, who decides where the ride goes.
Impressive (Score:5, Funny)
A Ford that doesnt need to be towed? Wow that really is a breakthrough.
Re:Impressive (Score:4, Insightful)
Stick shifts for the win (again) (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny how driving a stick shift prevents so many problems, such as this one. They are also great theft deterrents
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By the time Ford actually implements this technology, it's likely the only stick shifts left will be glorified joysticks telling the computer which gear you want the CVT to fake. And that's only on the ICE side of things. Shifting gears is absent from BEVs and it's not coming back because there's no need for a multi-speed transmission with electric motors.
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Ignition locks work pretty well on stick shifts.
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Funny how driving a stick shift prevents so many problems, such as this one. They are also great theft deterrents
Picking a car you can afford and paying cash money up front also does that. Well, unless it's a Telsa in which case it could get bricked by poor engineering at Tesla https://www.vice.com/en/articl... [vice.com] ... I suppose that still beats your Ford running away because the accounting department at Ford managed to mistakenly marked you down as being on a payment plan when you actually paid for your Failure Of Research & Development up front.
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No one really wants a stick shift anymore except purists. Great to know you have something no one wants though.
That's because people are lazy. Like so many other things, they'd rather have someone else decide for them, then act like a whining toddler when something goes wrong because they don't know what they're doing.
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Big talk from someone who uses an electric starter.
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I drive a stick and like it. And my daughter is probably one of the few Gen-Zs who can drive a stick (she had no choice but to learn if she wanted to borrow the car.)
But pretty soon, stick shifts just won't be available any more. It's soon the end of an era.
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When my manual transmission car of 13 years was totalled, I bought a brand new car with automatic transmission. It was fine, but It bothered me that it seemed to accelerate poorly, and generally just be in the wrong gear all the time. The AT was always trying to save fuel, which is noble, but the loss of acceleration control was just too much. Does that make me a "Purist"? I don't think it's too much to ask to have the car obey your commands instead of the other way around. I'm sure you wouldn't call a Tesla owner a Purist...
According to a Consumer Report test manual transmission cars are usually somewhat more efficient than AT cars: https://www.consumerreports.or... [consumerreports.org] ... that begin said, my favourite benefit of being a manual transmission car driver is getting to laugh at AT drivers trying to drive a manual transmission car.
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You better never come to Europe. Automatic transmissions are a rare sight around here.
Two words -- okay, three. (Score:2)
So... Subscription air-conditioning.
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You want heat? That's an add-on. We can start you at the low low price of $100/mo.
So if your car drives off by itself (Score:5, Funny)
It's either possessed or repossessed.
Patent (Score:2)
>"Ford applied for a patent to make the repossession process go smoother."
Oh wow, remote-controlling a device or remotely-disabling parts of a device. As if this is some unique idea or technology work patenting. This isn't an invention or even interesting. Hopefully the patent office isn't granting patents for this level of nonsense.
I have an idea- I want to patent disabling a credit card when the holder doesn't pay his/her bill...
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Ah, the joys of ownership! (Score:2)
It's too bad that, increasingly, we're paying full price to 'own' things in name only. We pay, and we have title - but we don't have control. Or, we rent, with no option to buy.
The people who dismissed the WEF prediction "You will own nothing, and you will be happy" seem to have missed the part where this transition is already in progress and fairly far advanced. We're at the point where, as William Gibson said, "The future is already here - it's just not evenly distributed".
Imagine a time 20 years from now
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Well, as long as pitchforks and torches will still work, we're gonna be fine.
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good luck with 84 month lease (Score:2)
What if you step out for a second with a Baby (Score:2)
in the back seat? And it drives off with your baby.
Not if it is in a garage. (Score:2)
That the vehicle can drive for any extended... (Score:2)
You should mention something important (Score:2)
Like, say, why the heck I would want to buy a car that can steal itself.
Shocked (Score:2)
I'm a fucking Ford stockholder and this company is proposing *this*??? I find it shocking that anyone company ever deign to propose to install a system into a car that would allow it to automatically drive to a location uncommanded by its registered owner, whether he s behind in his payments or not. It would not surprise me if that sociopathic asshole Elon Musk would propose that for his Tesla but not an allegedly reputable, responsible, and stable carmaker such as Ford. I also find it galling that Ford
Simple countermeasure (Score:2)
Put the thing in a garage. Or more maliciously, hammer a few nails through a plank and lay it front of the vehicle. Or chain the vehicle to a concrete filled drum and watch it wreck destruction. After all it's not your fault the car drove off without your command.
The 24 hour countdown includes ... (Score:2)
The climate control running cold in winter, hot in summer, and obnoxiously loud in between?
The radio starts blaring, "Pay up deadbeat!"?
The works of Philip K. Dick were cautionary tales, not how to manuals for corporations looking for inspiration.
Old idea (Score:2)
MAD magazine predicted this back in the 1960's. I forget the actual article, but it seemed prophetic even at the time.
It will only going to get worse unless legislation (Score:2)
I told you so (Score:2)
I warned people about this on slashdot before and was mocked for it. In a less mocking manner, I was told this wasn't going to happen because the buying public wouldn't put up with it. Okay, Pollyanna, but they won't have a choice. Mind you, I wasn't thinking about repossession in the traditional sense where you think you bought a car. I was referring to the inevitable subscription business model that automakers will most certainly adopt. Technically, they're already doing this through the use of lease
Picture this. (Score:2)